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Re: God Complex

Robert B. Bonner
 

WA4D should have been required to do the honorable thing, been shown a
darkened room and B+ed himself.

Yeah Riley killed "THE DOG" really good... Squish lika bug. He needed to
go.

If you hate the world, REAL MEN need to be nuclear terrorists, biological
weapons specialists, mad bombers or serial killers, not ham radio
operators.... THE DOG was a miss-directed pussy.

BOB DD

-----Original Message-----
From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:ham_amplifiers@...]
On Behalf Of badgerscreek
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 1:09 AM
To: ham_amplifiers@...
Subject: [ham_amplifiers] Re: God Complex

Dont you work DX Rich? Does that Combat Zone nonsense still occur
on 40 meters, or did Riley drive all the jammers under ground? It
reminds me of one of the most colourful jammers on 20 meters, the
infamous WA4D, he was too intelligent to be so stupid. Not your
average knucklehead.

Greg
Re: The real benefits of running qro.

FRANCIS CARCIA
 

and it keeps the shack warm in the winter so you don't get sick from sitting in?the?cold.


PA3DUV wrote:

Jim,
?
You did not mention the saved monies otherwise spend on shrinks, lawyers and doctors etc. As you can see a QRO amp pays for itself. 30 hours councelling @ 200 Euro/h pays for a 10 kW+ amplifier.
Actually it should be obligatory for any ham to own AND run a QRO amplifier.
?
Cheers, Dick
PA3DUV
?
?
?
----- Original Message -----
From: pentalab
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 3:11 PM
Subject: [ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of running qro.

--- In ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com, "Robert B. Bonner"
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Extremely high power makes for an interesting experiment thats
all.

### agreed. 2.5 kw out becomes so boring... it's mundane... like
pushing a lawnmower aimlessly about.. or punching holes in
doughnuts.

I have not used my big box on real antennas for many many years.
However i still fire it up into a dummy load, and i still try and
> improve its circuits. Does that make sense probably not.

### sure it makes sense... called... "tweaking" and .."boiling oil"

>
> Anything above 1 kilowatt is very hard to justify on the needs of a
> communications circuit.

### say what ?? 13 kw is a real kick.... 1 call does it all. No
need to mess about trying to crack a pile up... hit the switch,,,
in/out in 5 seconds every time. You BECOME the pile up.

I would argue that its only the lower bands where it may be of
some help. Even then its hardly needed

#### Tell that the guys with s9 noise... or even more with summer
time static.

and is only helpful in the case of jammers etc.

### Then u gotta get ur buddy's to run some serious qro too...
called reverse jamming.. where the jammer is just wasting his
time...and everyone just talks over him.

Its shame having a high electricity bill because someone else has
a poor receiving location!

### Did ud really see a high electric bill ??? At night... I shut
off the natural gas furnace and natural gas fireplace... since
shack in basement 8 x 10' room. Usually use just one small 1 kw
baseboard heater. Run some kw's.... and baseboard heater gets shut
off... so it's a wash.

### I never could understand why these qrp 5 watt artists.. would
sit there in Colo... and have a 1500 w CCS electric heater going at
their feet in winter time in basement. So u see... qro has merits.

### qro heats ur home... makes u feel better, reduces stress.. u
feel like u just beat collins/henry/harris, at their own game...
lots of satisfaction, ur friends are all impressed..esp wide eyed
computer geeks, and it's fun to watch plate meter's bouncing
up/down...ditto with wattmeter. You have the only 0-5 A plate
meter in town. You have the only 0-1 A grid meter in town. You
have the only 10/25 kw slug in town. Ur plate xfmr will power 8 x
homes in winter. Ur girlfriend will be dully impressed. You have
more power than the local college FM station. Ur friends with 25
watt push pull tube audio amps are really impressed, [esp with a 2
x4-1000 amp.. and a window, and tubes cherry red] U have more power
than 99.99% of the hams on the planet. Ur mother would be proud.
Pundits think you are actually a 'broadcast engineer'. 11m ops are
really impressed. You can dim all the lights on your street. Who
else can say they actually smoked the pole-pig in front of their
home.... and plunged the entire street into darkness. No need for
counselling or self medication. You are more focused, and have
better concentration..esp around 8-10 kv. You can light up
several 8' fluorescent tubes in your back yard... with no wires
attached. People stay clear of you in aisle 6 of your local grocery
store. You can casually mention stuff at the local hamfest... like
how you set the tree's on fire.. and blew the end insulator's off ur
dipole. You can give a real Corona demo late at night. You once
melted RG-17 on 10m. QST will never publish your schematic.

Later Jim.. VE7RF
Re: The real benefits of running qro.

Garry
 

Jim,

Your comments below are FUNNY, and make me laugh. The world needs more of this. It feels good!!!!

Regards,
Garry

PA3DUV wrote:

Jim,
You did not mention the saved monies otherwise spend on shrinks, lawyers and doctors etc. As you can see a QRO amp pays for itself. 30 hours councelling @ 200 Euro/h pays for a 10 kW+ amplifier.
Actually it should be obligatory for any ham to own AND run a QRO amplifier.
Cheers, Dick
PA3DUV
----- Original Message -----
*From:* pentalab <mailto:jim.thomson@...>
*To:* ham_amplifiers@...
<mailto:ham_amplifiers@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, January 07, 2007 3:11 PM
*Subject:* [ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of running qro.
--- In ham_amplifiers@...
<mailto:ham_amplifiers@...>, "Robert B. Bonner"
<rbonner@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Extremely high power makes for an interesting experiment thats
all.
### agreed. 2.5 kw out becomes so boring... it's mundane... like
pushing a lawnmower aimlessly about.. or punching holes in
doughnuts.
I have not used my big box on real antennas for many many years.
However i still fire it up into a dummy load, and i still try and
> improve its circuits. Does that make sense probably not.
### sure it makes sense... called... "tweaking" and .."boiling oil"

>
> Anything above 1 kilowatt is very hard to justify on the needs of a
> communications circuit.
### say what ?? 13 kw is a real kick.... 1 call does it all. No
need to mess about trying to crack a pile up... hit the switch,,,
in/out in 5 seconds every time. You BECOME the pile up.
I would argue that its only the lower bands where it may be of
some help. Even then its hardly needed
#### Tell that the guys with s9 noise... or even more with summer
time static.
and is only helpful in the case of jammers etc.
### Then u gotta get ur buddy's to run some serious qro too...
called reverse jamming.. where the jammer is just wasting his
time...and everyone just talks over him.
Its shame having a high electricity bill because someone else has
a poor receiving location!
### Did ud really see a high electric bill ??? At night... I shut
off the natural gas furnace and natural gas fireplace... since
shack in basement 8 x 10' room. Usually use just one small 1 kw
baseboard heater. Run some kw's.... and baseboard heater gets shut
off... so it's a wash.
### I never could understand why these qrp 5 watt artists.. would
sit there in Colo... and have a 1500 w CCS electric heater going at
their feet in winter time in basement. So u see... qro has merits.
### qro heats ur home... makes u feel better, reduces stress.. u
feel like u just beat collins/henry/harris, at their own game...
lots of satisfaction, ur friends are all impressed..esp wide eyed
computer geeks, and it's fun to watch plate meter's bouncing
up/down...ditto with wattmeter. You have the only 0-5 A plate
meter in town. You have the only 0-1 A grid meter in town. You
have the only 10/25 kw slug in town. Ur plate xfmr will power 8 x
homes in winter. Ur girlfriend will be dully impressed. You have
more power than the local college FM station. Ur friends with 25
watt push pull tube audio amps are really impressed, [esp with a 2
x4-1000 amp.. and a window, and tubes cherry red] U have more power
than 99.99% of the hams on the planet. Ur mother would be proud.
Pundits think you are actually a 'broadcast engineer'. 11m ops are
really impressed. You can dim all the lights on your street. Who
else can say they actually smoked the pole-pig in front of their
home.... and plunged the entire street into darkness. No need for
counselling or self medication. You are more focused, and have
better concentration..esp around 8-10 kv. You can light up
several 8' fluorescent tubes in your back yard... with no wires
attached. People stay clear of you in aisle 6 of your local grocery
store. You can casually mention stuff at the local hamfest... like
how you set the tree's on fire.. and blew the end insulator's off ur
dipole. You can give a real Corona demo late at night. You once
melted RG-17 on 10m. QST will never publish your schematic.
Later Jim.. VE7RF
Re: God Complex

 

On Jan 6, 2007, at 11:08 PM, badgerscreek wrote:

Dont you work DX Rich?
Only on the telephone, Greg. there's way less QRM.
Does that Combat Zone nonsense still occur
on 40 meters,
** The Combat Zone was a one-time eruption that began c. 1975 and
started to fade after about a decade. The d¨¦nouement was when we
started discussing a subject that made a whole lot of the denizens
nervous. After those discussions began, c. 75% ran -- some even
dropping out of Ham radio altogether. Many of the regulars who
didn't flee are now silent keys - or microphones. The remaining old-
timers moved to 7255 because 7258 was taken over by drug and/or
ethanol-dependent stations. Occasionally I hear a familiar voice and
say hello.

or did Riley drive all the jammers under ground?
** No. Jammers are pretty much like death and taxes. In rare cases
however, a jammer will have second thoughts and he will give it up.
Example: Fresno, California. There was a virulent jammer whose
location was discovered. He was contacted and advised to stop
jamming but he kept on. One night in the wee hours someone drove by
and discharged a number of warning rounds from a .308 caliber semi-
auto rifle through his residence in such a way that no one would be
likely to be struck. According to reports, the bullets went
completely through one side of the residence, through interior
walls, and out the other, and into a cotton field -- so he
undoubtedly got the message. No one was injured. The jamming stopped.

It reminds me of one of the most colourful jammers on 20 meters, the
infamous WA4D, he was too intelligent to be so stupid. Not your
average knucklehead.
** never ran into him. As I see it, jammers are often little boys
who did not get the right kind of attention from their fathers prior
to the age of 12 - 13.
One of the most persistent 80m jammers in Southern California
turned out to be from a entertainment-business family that apparently
had a number of male members who had a carnal interest in little boys.

cheers, Greg
...
R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org
Re: The real benefits of running qro.

PA3DUV
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Jim,
?
You did not mention the saved monies otherwise spend on shrinks, lawyers and doctors etc. As you can see a QRO amp pays for itself. 30 hours councelling @ 200 Euro/h pays for a 10 kW+ amplifier.
Actually it should be obligatory for any ham to own AND run a QRO amplifier.
?
Cheers, Dick
PA3DUV
?
?
?

----- Original Message -----
From: pentalab
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 3:11 PM
Subject: [ham_amplifiers] Re: The real benefits of running qro.

--- In ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com, "Robert B. Bonner"
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Extremely high power makes for an interesting experiment thats
all.

### agreed. 2.5 kw out becomes so boring... it's mundane... like
pushing a lawnmower aimlessly about.. or punching holes in
doughnuts.

I have not used my big box on real antennas for many many years.
However i still fire it up into a dummy load, and i still try and
> improve its circuits. Does that make sense probably not.

### sure it makes sense... called... "tweaking" and .."boiling oil"

>
> Anything above 1 kilowatt is very hard to justify on the needs of a
> communications circuit.

### say what ?? 13 kw is a real kick.... 1 call does it all. No
need to mess about trying to crack a pile up... hit the switch,,,
in/out in 5 seconds every time. You BECOME the pile up.

I would argue that its only the lower bands where it may be of
some help. Even then its hardly needed

#### Tell that the guys with s9 noise... or even more with summer
time static.

and is only helpful in the case of jammers etc.

### Then u gotta get ur buddy's to run some serious qro too...
called reverse jamming.. where the jammer is just wasting his
time...and everyone just talks over him.

Its shame having a high electricity bill because someone else has
a poor receiving location!

### Did ud really see a high electric bill ??? At night... I shut
off the natural gas furnace and natural gas fireplace... since
shack in basement 8 x 10' room. Usually use just one small 1 kw
baseboard heater. Run some kw's.... and baseboard heater gets shut
off... so it's a wash.

### I never could understand why these qrp 5 watt artists.. would
sit there in Colo... and have a 1500 w CCS electric heater going at
their feet in winter time in basement. So u see... qro has merits.

### qro heats ur home... makes u feel better, reduces stress.. u
feel like u just beat collins/henry/harris, at their own game...
lots of satisfaction, ur friends are all impressed..esp wide eyed
computer geeks, and it's fun to watch plate meter's bouncing
up/down...ditto with wattmeter. You have the only 0-5 A plate
meter in town. You have the only 0-1 A grid meter in town. You
have the only 10/25 kw slug in town. Ur plate xfmr will power 8 x
homes in winter. Ur girlfriend will be dully impressed. You have
more power than the local college FM station. Ur friends with 25
watt push pull tube audio amps are really impressed, [esp with a 2
x4-1000 amp.. and a window, and tubes cherry red] U have more power
than 99.99% of the hams on the planet. Ur mother would be proud.
Pundits think you are actually a 'broadcast engineer'. 11m ops are
really impressed. You can dim all the lights on your street. Who
else can say they actually smoked the pole-pig in front of their
home.... and plunged the entire street into darkness. No need for
counselling or self medication. You are more focused, and have
better concentration..esp around 8-10 kv. You can light up
several 8' fluorescent tubes in your back yard... with no wires
attached. People stay clear of you in aisle 6 of your local grocery
store. You can casually mention stuff at the local hamfest... like
how you set the tree's on fire.. and blew the end insulator's off ur
dipole. You can give a real Corona demo late at night. You once
melted RG-17 on 10m. QST will never publish your schematic.

Later Jim.. VE7RF
Re: The real benefits of running qro.

pentalab
 

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Robert B. Bonner"
<rbonner@...> wrote:



Extremely high power makes for an interesting experiment thats
all.

### agreed. 2.5 kw out becomes so boring... it's mundane... like
pushing a lawnmower aimlessly about.. or punching holes in
doughnuts.




I have not used my big box on real antennas for many many years.
However i still fire it up into a dummy load, and i still try and
improve its circuits. Does that make sense probably not.
### sure it makes sense... called... "tweaking" and .."boiling oil"




Anything above 1 kilowatt is very hard to justify on the needs of a
communications circuit.
### say what ?? 13 kw is a real kick.... 1 call does it all. No
need to mess about trying to crack a pile up... hit the switch,,,
in/out in 5 seconds every time. You BECOME the pile up.



I would argue that its only the lower bands where it may be of
some help. Even then its hardly needed

#### Tell that the guys with s9 noise... or even more with summer
time static.





and is only helpful in the case of jammers etc.

### Then u gotta get ur buddy's to run some serious qro too...
called reverse jamming.. where the jammer is just wasting his
time...and everyone just talks over him.



Its shame having a high electricity bill because someone else has
a poor receiving location!

### Did ud really see a high electric bill ??? At night... I shut
off the natural gas furnace and natural gas fireplace... since
shack in basement 8 x 10' room. Usually use just one small 1 kw
baseboard heater. Run some kw's.... and baseboard heater gets shut
off... so it's a wash.

### I never could understand why these qrp 5 watt artists.. would
sit there in Colo... and have a 1500 w CCS electric heater going at
their feet in winter time in basement. So u see... qro has merits.

### qro heats ur home... makes u feel better, reduces stress.. u
feel like u just beat collins/henry/harris, at their own game...
lots of satisfaction, ur friends are all impressed..esp wide eyed
computer geeks, and it's fun to watch plate meter's bouncing
up/down...ditto with wattmeter. You have the only 0-5 A plate
meter in town. You have the only 0-1 A grid meter in town. You
have the only 10/25 kw slug in town. Ur plate xfmr will power 8 x
homes in winter. Ur girlfriend will be dully impressed. You have
more power than the local college FM station. Ur friends with 25
watt push pull tube audio amps are really impressed, [esp with a 2
x4-1000 amp.. and a window, and tubes cherry red] U have more power
than 99.99% of the hams on the planet. Ur mother would be proud.
Pundits think you are actually a 'broadcast engineer'. 11m ops are
really impressed. You can dim all the lights on your street. Who
else can say they actually smoked the pole-pig in front of their
home.... and plunged the entire street into darkness. No need for
counselling or self medication. You are more focused, and have
better concentration..esp around 8-10 kv. You can light up
several 8' fluorescent tubes in your back yard... with no wires
attached. People stay clear of you in aisle 6 of your local grocery
store. You can casually mention stuff at the local hamfest... like
how you set the tree's on fire.. and blew the end insulator's off ur
dipole. You can give a real Corona demo late at night. You once
melted RG-17 on 10m. QST will never publish your schematic.

Later Jim.. VE7RF
Re: Never Enough

Andrew
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Bob DD
make the hog louder and quieten the blower.
?
Noel
VK4HR
Re: SB-200 Hi-Speed Switching Modifications

Doug Hall
 

Hi Bob,
I converted an SB-200 to QSK 7 or 8 years ago using a circuit based
loosely on AG6K's circuit for the SB-220. I no longer have the SB-200,
but I did keep a hand written schematic which I'd be happy to scan and
post. I'll try to get to it in the next day or so.
73,
Doug, K4DSP

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Bob" <w6vy@...> wrote:

Has anyone documented the changes required to install a hi-speed
switching mod in a Heathkit SB-200 including a schematic and component
values? I have one I would like to modify but I would hate to have to
re-invent the wheel.

Thanks and Happy New Year.

Bob W6VY
Re: Ham Radio Magazine

Hsu
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Thanks!David,
? This ia the power meter's ?schematic.http://www.cnham.net/bbs/attachments/001_6lQDGk9q8yGc.jpg,you can view it.if not please e-mail to me direct, I'll sned to you.Does??anyone?have this article?
???? 73! Hsu

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 11:16 PM
Subject: RE: [ham_amplifiers] Ham Radio Magazine

Hsu,
?
Sorry but I don't.? My Ham Radio on CD only goes up to 1976.? I have been meaning to buy the second CD from ARRL with the rest of the issues but just have never done it.
?
73
David
-----Original Message-----
From: ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Hsu
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 8:48 AM
To: ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ham_amplifiers] Ham Radio Magazine

Hi, David,
? Do you have the Ham radio Dec 1977 P38-43,?J.H. Bowen "Accurate Low
Power RF?Wattmeter?for High Freqency?and VHF Measurements"?
? Thanks!
????? 73!Hsu
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 8:46 PM
Subject: RE: [ham_amplifiers] Ham Radio Magazine

Garry,
?
I have that issue on CD.? What article do you want?
?
David
KC2JD
?
-----Original Message-----
From: ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Garry
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 7:57 PM
To: Ham Amplifiers
Subject: [ham_amplifiers] Ham Radio Magazine

Does anyone have a March 1975 issue of Ham Radio magazine where you
could scan an article and forward to me?

Thanks & 73,
Garry - WR4R
Re: God Complex

 

On Jan 6, 2007, at 4:08 PM, Robert B. Bonner wrote:

Greg,

That was a pretty good response.

How about the mountain top location with a slope in all directions, big
antennas on short towers and a 20 DB amplifier? Sounds like the perfect
setup to me. I like the Horse Power myself.
I built the original 8170 amplifier to be heard above the jammers. However, when the jammers discovered that I was immune to jamming, they began jamming the people I was listening to

BOB DD

-----Original Message-----
From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:ham_amplifiers@...]
On Behalf Of badgerscreek
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 3:06 PM
To: ham_amplifiers@...
Subject: [ham_amplifiers] Re: God Complex

Extremely high power makes for an interesting experiment thats all. I
have not used my big box on real antennas for many many years.
However i still fire it up into a dummy load, and i still try and
improve its circuits. Does that make sense probably not

Anything above 1 kilowatt is very hard to justify on the needs of a
communications circuit. I would argue that its only the lower bands
where it may be of some help. Even then its hardly needed and is only
helpful in the case of jammers etc. Its shame having a high
electricity bill because someone else has a poor receiving location!

Very few stations these days have the ability to radiate the power
at the low incoming angles where it can do some good. With our greater
understanding of NVIS propagation, a good NVIS antenna like a
vertical yagi firing straight up in the air can just about compete
with a 20db amplifier if its a short range circuit

What gets most people unstuck running high power is either the ego
or using one of the modern ham radio exciters as a driver. Its very
hard to find a radio thats clean enough without generating snide
remarks about signal quality. Lets face it just about every radio
transceiver reviewed by the ARRL is as bad as the last bad lemon in
this regard. Now this is a problem even for those running legal power.

Most of us can build these amplifiers but few are willing to build an
exciter thats clean enough to match the excellent signal purity of big
amps. Maybe if the FCC changed its rules and allowed amplifiers that
can be driven with 100 milliwats like every military amplifier this
terrible situation might change.

When i get stations telling me in a sincere manner that a crapped out
old L4B makes 20 db of difference, imagine what can be expected if you
asked for a signal report on the difference that a 20 db amplifier
gives! If most stations used true calibrated S meter's they would not
be rushing out to build or buy a high power amplifier considering the
expense.

A case in point is the high power fax station somewhere in Germany,
listen sometime, Its on 13.381 or 382 DDK or DDH. It runs 20kw into a
vertical for weather fax. I can hear most hams better who are using a
low tribander than this station. This station is in an impressive
location and it uses a optimised antenna. Its a good propagation
beacon. This station essentially illustrates the futility of running
high power. When the band is open the signal is impressive, when the
band is marginal any ham with a decent antenna is heard with a better
signal strength. I would say most hams play it legal simply because
running high power in the places where most of us live is out of the
question.

Hams i think have extracted the maximum performance one can expect
out of antennas and propagation, there is hardly anything to prove.
In commercial shortwave link circuits this very same thing has
occured with shortwave planners, the shift in power is downwards not
upwards because even the military has too consider the economics of
high power. The power level is dropping steadily, when
once it was the norm for a military link station to run 40 kilowatts,
1 kilowatt with good antennas is the norm now. Most tactical planning
for long distance links have a target power range of .400 too 1
kilowatts of power.On SSB 4 kilowatts is about the maximum power used.
The Rockwell Scope HF system is an example.

Just my take, as others can justify the need for gas guzzlers so too
i am sure someone else can justify the argument for running high
power and think it makes sense. Now if the electricity was free and i
had a modern DSP transceiver that cancelled out the distortion and IMD
as i spoke i might change my view.

If i had the choice between high power and a hilltop location with
sloping terrain in all directions i would take the hilltop location
over the 20db amplifier any day. Better still is a saltwater island
with verticals, i then could run these stations on solar power and
achieve the same thing without contributing to global warming!

Greg

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Dr. Robert Bonner"
<rbonner@...> wrote:

You might have noticed I stayed out of the political discussion of
running power. Lets move on to the topic of the Religious
Implications
of Running Power.

Steve, nice construction job.

Sincerely,
BOB DD
Yahoo! Groups Links


R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org
Re: God Complex

Robert B. Bonner
 

Greg,

That was a pretty good response.

How about the mountain top location with a slope in all directions, big
antennas on short towers and a 20 DB amplifier? Sounds like the perfect
setup to me. I like the Horse Power myself.

BOB DD

-----Original Message-----
From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:ham_amplifiers@...]
On Behalf Of badgerscreek
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 3:06 PM
To: ham_amplifiers@...
Subject: [ham_amplifiers] Re: God Complex

Extremely high power makes for an interesting experiment thats all. I
have not used my big box on real antennas for many many years.
However i still fire it up into a dummy load, and i still try and
improve its circuits. Does that make sense probably not

Anything above 1 kilowatt is very hard to justify on the needs of a
communications circuit. I would argue that its only the lower bands
where it may be of some help. Even then its hardly needed and is only
helpful in the case of jammers etc. Its shame having a high
electricity bill because someone else has a poor receiving location!

Very few stations these days have the ability to radiate the power
at the low incoming angles where it can do some good. With our greater
understanding of NVIS propagation, a good NVIS antenna like a
vertical yagi firing straight up in the air can just about compete
with a 20db amplifier if its a short range circuit

What gets most people unstuck running high power is either the ego
or using one of the modern ham radio exciters as a driver. Its very
hard to find a radio thats clean enough without generating snide
remarks about signal quality. Lets face it just about every radio
transceiver reviewed by the ARRL is as bad as the last bad lemon in
this regard. Now this is a problem even for those running legal power.

Most of us can build these amplifiers but few are willing to build an
exciter thats clean enough to match the excellent signal purity of big
amps. Maybe if the FCC changed its rules and allowed amplifiers that
can be driven with 100 milliwats like every military amplifier this
terrible situation might change.

When i get stations telling me in a sincere manner that a crapped out
old L4B makes 20 db of difference, imagine what can be expected if you
asked for a signal report on the difference that a 20 db amplifier
gives! If most stations used true calibrated S meter's they would not
be rushing out to build or buy a high power amplifier considering the
expense.

A case in point is the high power fax station somewhere in Germany,
listen sometime, Its on 13.381 or 382 DDK or DDH. It runs 20kw into a
vertical for weather fax. I can hear most hams better who are using a
low tribander than this station. This station is in an impressive
location and it uses a optimised antenna. Its a good propagation
beacon. This station essentially illustrates the futility of running
high power. When the band is open the signal is impressive, when the
band is marginal any ham with a decent antenna is heard with a better
signal strength. I would say most hams play it legal simply because
running high power in the places where most of us live is out of the
question.

Hams i think have extracted the maximum performance one can expect
out of antennas and propagation, there is hardly anything to prove.
In commercial shortwave link circuits this very same thing has
occured with shortwave planners, the shift in power is downwards not
upwards because even the military has too consider the economics of
high power. The power level is dropping steadily, when
once it was the norm for a military link station to run 40 kilowatts,
1 kilowatt with good antennas is the norm now. Most tactical planning
for long distance links have a target power range of .400 too 1
kilowatts of power.On SSB 4 kilowatts is about the maximum power used.
The Rockwell Scope HF system is an example.

Just my take, as others can justify the need for gas guzzlers so too
i am sure someone else can justify the argument for running high
power and think it makes sense. Now if the electricity was free and i
had a modern DSP transceiver that cancelled out the distortion and IMD
as i spoke i might change my view.


If i had the choice between high power and a hilltop location with
sloping terrain in all directions i would take the hilltop location
over the 20db amplifier any day. Better still is a saltwater island
with verticals, i then could run these stations on solar power and
achieve the same thing without contributing to global warming!


Greg



--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Dr. Robert Bonner"
<rbonner@...> wrote:

You might have noticed I stayed out of the political discussion of
running power. Lets move on to the topic of the Religious Implications
of Running Power.

Steve, nice construction job.

Sincerely,
BOB DD



Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: grid driven tetrode

 

On Jan 6, 2007, at 7:39 AM, FRANCIS CARCIA wrote:


Thanks Rick,
ur welcome

Well I think the 4CX5000 will do 11 KW max .
so that puts your numbers 8/11 max or about 75% of max to stay clean. I suppose a good high plate supply with enough screen voltage to provide enough gain.
An 8170 or 8171 will do 5k more on SSB with 1500v screen and 9kV anode. The key to maximal output is maximal screen-V. Increasing the screen potential from 1250v to 1500v results in c. 30% more output.

I'm actually playing with an old Viking 2 CDC modulator that uses 807s. Crazy flash back to youth. Rig is so I can get on AM from summer home. Small lot near the beach not really suited for QRO.....at least during waking hours. gfz

R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

On Jan 5, 2007, at 6:22 PM, FRANCIS CARCIA wrote:


So Rick,
Do I assume you never want to drive the grid 1 positive
Correct. AB1 means the grid is never driven into positive region.
Sure, it sounds strange to say the maximum grid potential is 0 volts,
but it's true.

or let the plate voltage swing below the screen for cleanest output?
For a pentode, the minimum anode potential can swing slightly below
the screen potential with no problem, but with a tetrode, the screen
current - as well as total IMD - goes through the roof when the anode
potential dips below the screen V. Thus for AB1 SSB, use an
abundance of anode V. plus the max screen V.

Any feel for the output power limit for say a 4CX3000A holding that
operating condition? gfz
Plywood Box #2 would do c. 8kpep out in AB1 / SSB with 1kV on the
screen.
...
R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org



R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org
Re: God Complex

 

On Jan 6, 2007, at 1:05 PM, badgerscreek wrote:

Extremely high power makes for an interesting experiment thats all. I
have not used my big box on real antennas for many many years.
However i still fire it up into a dummy load, and i still try and
improve its circuits. Does that make sense probably not

Anything above 1 kilowatt is very hard to justify on the needs of a
communications circuit. I would argue that its only the lower bands
where it may be of some help. Even then its hardly needed and is only
helpful in the case of jammers etc. Its shame having a high
electricity bill because someone else has a poor receiving location!

Very few stations these days have the ability to radiate the power
at the low incoming angles where it can do some good.
On 80m and 160m, low radiation angles are typically not good.

...

If i had the choice between high power and a hilltop location with
sloping terrain in all directions i would take the hilltop location
over the 20db amplifier any day. Better still is a saltwater island
with verticals, i then could run these stations on solar power and
achieve the same thing without contributing to global warming!
You would still be exhaling CO^2,

cheerz, Greg.


R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org
God Complex

Dr. Robert Bonner
 

You might have noticed I stayed out of the political discussion of
running power. Lets move on to the topic of the Religious Implications
of Running Power.

Steve, nice construction job.

Sincerely,
BOB DD
Re: grid driven tetrode

FRANCIS CARCIA
 

Thanks Rick,
Well I think the 4CX5000 will do 11 KW max so that puts your numbers 8/11 max or about 75% of max to stay clean. I suppose a good high plate supply with enough screen voltage to provide enough gain.
I'm actually playing with an old Viking 2 CDC modulator that uses 807s. Crazy flash back to youth. Rig is so I can get on AM from summer home. Small lot near the beach not really suited for QRO.....at least during waking hours. gfz

R L Measures wrote:


On Jan 5, 2007, at 6:22 PM, FRANCIS CARCIA wrote:

>
> So Rick,
> Do I assume you never want to drive the grid 1 positive

Correct. AB1 means the grid is never driven into positive region.
Sure, it sounds strange to say the maximum grid potential is 0 volts,
but it's true.

> or let the plate voltage swing below the screen for cleanest output?

For a pentode, the minimum anode potential can swing slightly below
the screen potential with no problem, but with a tetrode, the screen
current - as well as total IMD - goes through the roof when the anode
potential dips below the screen V. Thus for AB1 SSB, use an
abundance of anode V. plus the max screen V.

> Any feel for the output power limit for say a 4CX3000A holding that
> operating condition? gfz

Plywood Box #2 would do c. 8kpep out in AB1 / SSB with 1kV on the
screen.
> ...
R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org
Re: 8170 AMP

FRANCIS CARCIA
 

very nice job! How about a schematic

Steve Cook wrote:

Hi Greg,
?
To be honest, I don't recall ever running this thing on 10 or 15, although the grid circuit did resonate nicely.??I used the AG6K circuit which incorporates a trifilar input transformer and a 450 non-inductive resistor in conjunciton with a roller coil to resonate the input cirucit.? This thing put out a heap of fire -- 20dB and change.
?
-S

badgerscreek com> wrote:
Nice job Steve.

How successful were you in resonating the grid on 10 through 15
meters? Do you bypass the grid Roller inductor on 10 through to 15 meters?

The stray L with the interconnecting wires caused me all sorts of
trouble even though the Grid lead length was close to zero.

I also had to use a 1000 ohm grid R with a 20:1 transformer to develop
full grid drive voltage. Well i only had a 100 watts of clean low IMD
power. I am still unhappy with the grid circuit.

My suggestion to anyone contemplating building a 8170 amplifier is
too sort the grid circuit out first. That and the sheer weight is the
only problems you will have. Some kind of filament regulator that can
switch during RX:TX would also be advisable especially if you running
it off single phase.

Greg

--- In ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com, "vaj4378" > wrote:
>
> I posted a few pictures of my 8170 amplifier.
>
> -Steve
>


Cheap Talk? Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

Re: Enough!

Tony King - W4ZT
 

Steve et al,

Without taking a stand on either side of the argument I will say this...

Bob, KR4DA, started this group to give us a place to have amplifier discussions without senseless censorship due to personal or professional differences. My personal opinion is that we should respect his intentions by staying within the fuzzy bounds of ham amplifiers and not use this as a place to vent our views on other, unrelated, topics.

All of us have an opinion and, thankfully, we do have the right to express them, but I carefully pick and choose whose living room to do it in.

Best regards for a Happy New Year!

Tony W4ZT


Steven Grant wrote:

At 09:53 AM 1/5/2007, you wrote:
There are no moderators on here, if you have an issue with it, i suggest you not open this thread
Re: Ham Radio Magazine

David C. Hallam
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hsu,
?
Sorry but I don't.? My Ham Radio on CD only goes up to 1976.? I have been meaning to buy the second CD from ARRL with the rest of the issues but just have never done it.
?
73
David

-----Original Message-----
From: ham_amplifiers@... [mailto:ham_amplifiers@...]On Behalf Of Hsu
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 8:48 AM
To: ham_amplifiers@...
Subject: Re: [ham_amplifiers] Ham Radio Magazine

Hi, David,
? Do you have the Ham radio Dec 1977 P38-43,?J.H. Bowen "Accurate Low
Power RF?Wattmeter?for High Freqency?and VHF Measurements"?
? Thanks!
????? 73!Hsu
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 8:46 PM
Subject: RE: [ham_amplifiers] Ham Radio Magazine

Garry,
?
I have that issue on CD.? What article do you want?
?
David
KC2JD
?
-----Original Message-----
From: ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Garry
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 7:57 PM
To: Ham Amplifiers
Subject: [ham_amplifiers] Ham Radio Magazine

Does anyone have a March 1975 issue of Ham Radio magazine where you
could scan an article and forward to me?

Thanks & 73,
Garry - WR4R
Re: Enough!

Steven Grant
 

At 09:53 AM 1/5/2007, you wrote:

There are no moderators on here, if you have an issue with it, i suggest you not open this thread

WHAT PART OF ENOUGH! DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?


At 08:18 AM 1/5/2007, you wrote:

So you think the set up we have today is good?

"David C. Hallam" <dhallam@...> wrote:
Jim,
?
Socialism doesn't work, has not ever worked, and will never work for the every reasons you have pointed out in your previous emails.? Anytime you get the government involved in anything, corruption causes things to go to hell.? Government is the biggest source of corruption in society.? It surpasses individuals, businesses, and anything else you can name.? God save us from more big government.? I'll take big business corruption any day compare to big government corruption.? We elect people who think they know what is right for you.? They end up knowing what is right for them.
?
The US had a famous cowboy philosopher back in the 1920's by the name of Will Rogers.? He was a Democrat and probably some what of a socialist, but one of his most famous quotes was " The people elected Calvin Coolidge president.? He didn't do much, but that's what the people wanted."? I think that's what the people in the US want today.? A president and congress that won't do much. Stop trying to fix things and just leave us along!!!!!
?
David
?
-----Original Message-----
From: ham_amplifiers@... [ mailto:ham_amplifiers@...]On Behalf Of pentalab
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 4:19 PM
To: ham_amplifiers@...
Subject: [ham_amplifiers] Re: Enough!
--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Mike(W5UC) & Kathy(K5MWH)"
wrote:
>
> Francis, several days ago I attempted to end this discussion by
> saying that we will not agree on this. We will not! Who is the
> moderator here and why isn't he doing his job? It is time to end
> this rant designed to promote socialism.
### What's wrong with Socialism ?? Works here. What needs to
be gov't run is stuff like medical/dental/ residential
water/commercial AC power production/ car insurance/ Ferry sytems,
etc. At least that's our idea of.."socilism" You privatize any
of that just mentioned... and prices skyrocket.. and standards drop.
## case in point.... in VE6 land... they had this brilliant idea
they would privatize.. and sell off ALL AC power production. The
idea was that private co's would invest Billions in new power
production. They were gonna chop it up into 8-10 pieces. When
only 4-5 co's showed up... they were surprised... and proceeded
to divvy up the province of alberta into North south east west.
The co's are real happy now. NONE of em compete with each
other... since they have their own turf. None of em are the
slighest bit interested in spending Billions to generate new AC
power. [the provincial gov't there thought with some co spending
billions on new power... rates would...drop]. Instead... there
was no increase in production at all.... rates went up as much as
450 % !!
### In the UK... they did the same thing with their various water
supply's for residential water. Their water rates have gone up
400 % ! They also privatized the construction of new hospital
facilities.... now the consumer is paying through the nose for it.
### cheap electric/water rates means a better economy. You start
paying sky high rates... and the one of 2 things happen.... either
increased production costs get passed onto the consumer... or co XXX
sells up... and moves. In VE6 land... they had foundries that had
been there a long time... and couldn't compete with the province of
manitoba [VE4 land].... due to the huge difference in electrical
rates. The foundries in VE6 land moved to VE4 land.
## If u wanna pay retail + 100%... go for it. Most of us like the
wholesale rate.
later... Jim VE7RF
>



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"age & treachery will overcome youth & skill"
GG Push-pull Amplifier

Hsu
 

Hi,
I have seen a diagram in Modern Electronic Circuits Reference Manual (John Markus),origional article in 73 Magzine, Holidy Issue 1976, P22-23.Author:B.Baird,"Build This Inexpensive 400 Watt Amplifier".It is a GG Push-pull Amplifier useing a pair 7094, without input matched network,I'm very interested its plate network, it without slug coils and can work in all ahm band and need not change the coil.I'm sad I have not full article. Could some someone can saan or take some photos and send the article to me ?It is a very interesting design, Although it without input Pi network, but I think it still have a better matching than Single End amplifier. Is that right?
73! Hsu
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