rbonner@... or www.qro.com for additional contact info.

Bob,

Think it was you that had a nice pull vehicle and where describing it earlier.... Can I contact you off list about it?

Getting ready to spec out a new dodge with the new motor, but wanted input from other people pulling with larger trucks today.



Thanks!


--Toll_Free

I have converted Henry 3K / 3K-A amplifiers to a single 8877. IT makes for
a nice conversion and they will give you 2KW out reliably with less than
100W drive without blowing up tank components. Just use a blocking plate
available everywhere for the second hole.

The 2K series of amps' power transformer is too low a voltage to get this
kind of power no matter what. The change just needs to be a PETE DAHL soup
up direct bolt in replacement. I had a 2K-4 for a time with the GO FAST
Dahl in it and it ran right alongside any 3K-A.

Generally a dual 3-500Z amp of Henry construction DOES NOT have the tank and
capacitor support to run dual BIG TUBES. Once you pass 2000 OUT stuff BLOWS
UP FAST.

I completely agree with JIM, I'd not mess unless this unit was BROKEN. You
know blown tubes, burned out transformer, exploded tank circuit, etc. If
she's sweet, keep her that way.

Modified Henrys just don't bring the money you would need for them. Sell
her and go buy a 5K if you want a 5K.

Actually an AL-1200 - AL-1500 makes a better transformation to dual tubes.
Build an external PS, drop in a different filament xfmr and run a
conservative 2500-3KW. If caps start flying apart there's enough room to
wheel in Vacuum variables.

But really if you want to build an amp, build one. Start her from scratch
and the $900-$2000 you spend in scrapping out and modifying a factory low
power will go a long ways in building a big gun...

For instance I have a "KIT" right here that'd get you big poop started for
right around the price of a used AL-1500.

BOB DD

Wow.


I happen to have my Tech ticket. The day I went in and got my tech I passed novice through written.

That was 12 or so years ago. I've tried learning code, but ended up having to play the way I have.


And believe you me, I am READY to go forward when February rolls around :) My TS-440SAT will be retired in trade for a 940S I believe...... Seems like the best used radio on the market at the time, if I get a nice late model.


Anywho.... Thanks for the invite, and if I find ya, I'll holler :) lol



--Toll_Free

--



*Ratings are for transistors, tubes have guidelines*

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., Martin Sole <msole@...> wrote:

I have recently had a little time to investigate my Henry 2K

Classic X a

little more. The transformers are marked South Gate and the part

number

on the high voltage transformer is ECA 1171.

#### Beware... Henry Radio has gone through more plate xfmr
manufacturers' over the yrs than u can shake a stick at. I was told
they dumped ECA.... and dunno who they replaced with.

### If't it doing 1800w out from 2 x 3-500Z's.... that's plenty.




Quoting the spec:

OUTPUT POWER
2K-Classic X (Export Model) - 1800 watts PEP nominal (3000 watts

PEP

nominal input).

DUTY CYCLE
2K-Classic and 2K-Classic X- Continuous at rated output.

### That doesn't mean 1800W dead cxr all day long......... means
1800 w pep all day long..big diff. Even if it was 1800 w CCS
cxr..... on ssb.. the supply would be good for 50% more... so maybe
2700 w pep out.... if u changed the tubes.... to something like 3CX-
1200's or YU-120's.

Soooo...

With about 3300 volts on load (3700 off load) as per the front

panel

meter. I guess the transformer is good for about 900mA continuous?

Does anybody have a more informed idea about the transformer

rating?

As I become more acquainted with this amp it does seem as if the 3-

500

tubes are less than the rest of the amp is capable of. I wonder

what

might be a good candidate for transplant?

### 3CX-1200's will drop right into same socket. The YU-120 is
the Howell hot rod version... with 1500 w ccs anode diss.... drops
into same 3-500z socket....... then u have to change the fil xfmr
etc.

### You can't just suck twice as much plate current either......
ur plate load Z will drop in half..... which means u need twice as
much tune and load C... and 1/2 as much coil per band. Do
really really want to butcher it.. for a lousy 2 db ?? At that
point, ur ECA brand plate xfmr + mating choke is on borrowed time.
When u blow it up...... then replace with an identical spare new
one.... the spare will blow up as well.

### I'd leave it.... and use it as an IPA.

Later... Jim VE7RF

Martin, HS0ZED

Martin,

The iron that's inside the coil is what we need the area in square
inches for. The tongue is the center leg of the lamination. This
tongue width gives us the one dimension we need. The core stack depth
is the other. In your case, I'm assuming the tongue width is 2" and
the stack is 5" thick? If so, that's 10 square inches. To convert
this into the power rating for 60 Hz at 12 kilogauss (about right for
EI lams like M-19 steel), we use the formulas;

TPV = 4.85 / A

A = 0.1725 x sqrt of P

P = ( a / 0.1725 )^2

So;

( 10 In^2 / 0.1725 )^2 = 3,360 watts.

This transformer could be ran at up to 14 kilogauss though, according
to the steel used such as M-6, which is a possibilty that would up
the power rating a little more. The total power though (being it is a
L input filter) should be;

Iac = 0.9 amperes X 1.064 = 0.957 amperes.

0.957 amperes x 3300 Vdc = 3158 watts.

So, the transformer is sized correctly for this type of filter
circuit. If you change it to a C input filter though, the rms current
for the secondary will raise by the amount shown in the formulas.

Best,

Will


--- In ham_amplifiers@..., Martin Sole <msole@...> wrote:

Thanks Will,

see below

craxd wrote:

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., Martin Sole <msole@> wrote:

I have recently had a little time to investigate my Henry 2K

Classic X a

little more. The transformers are marked South Gate and the part

number

on the high voltage transformer is ECA 1171. Quoting the spec:

OUTPUT POWER
2K-Classic X (Export Model) - 1800 watts PEP nominal (3000 watts

PEP

nominal input).

DUTY CYCLE
2K-Classic and 2K-Classic X- Continuous at rated output.

Soooo...

With about 3300 volts on load (3700 off load) as per the front

panel

meter. I guess the transformer is good for about 900mA

continuous?

Does anybody have a more informed idea about the transformer

rating?

3300 Vdc at 900 mA would be the DC current required from the
rectifiers and filter C. The AC rms current the secondary would

need

to supply would be something like Iac = Sec. Idc X 1.613 where

0.9A x

1.613 = 1.45 amperes AC if it's designed by the recommended

standards

for using a FWB with cap input. If it uses a choke input for the
filter circuit though, the rms current needed will be lower. For

a

FWB with a choke input, it would be Iac = Sec. Idc X 1.064. Below

is

some handy formulas for the two rectifier types.

*** The psu is a FWB with a resonant choke input filter.

FWB, C input;

Vdc peak = 1.414 X Sec. Vac

Vavg = 0.90 X Sec. Vac

Vac = Sec. Vdc peak X 0.707

Idc = 0.62 X Sec. Iac

Iac = Sec. Idc X 1.613

====================================

FWB, L input;

Vdc peak = 0.90 X Sec. Vac

Vavg = 0.90 X Sec. Vac

Vac = Sec. Vdc peak X 1.111

Idc = 0.94 X Sec. Iac

Iac = Sec. Idc X 1.064

One would need to know the core dimensions of the transformer in
square inches to roughly determine what its power rating

capability

is. That's the tongue width times the stack thickness. It's the

same

for EI or C type cores.

*** By tongue do you mean the centre part of the E lamination? That
measures about 2"x4". Stack thickness is 5"

As I become more acquainted with this amp it does seem as if the

3-

500

tubes are less than the rest of the amp is capable of. I wonder

what

might be a good candidate for transplant?

Martin, HS0ZED

Best,

Will




Yahoo! Groups Links

Thanks Will,

see below

craxd wrote:

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., Martin Sole <msole@...> wrote:

I have recently had a little time to investigate my Henry 2K

Classic X a

little more. The transformers are marked South Gate and the part

number

on the high voltage transformer is ECA 1171. Quoting the spec:

OUTPUT POWER
2K-Classic X (Export Model) - 1800 watts PEP nominal (3000 watts

PEP

nominal input).

DUTY CYCLE
2K-Classic and 2K-Classic X- Continuous at rated output.

Soooo...

With about 3300 volts on load (3700 off load) as per the front

panel

meter. I guess the transformer is good for about 900mA continuous?

Does anybody have a more informed idea about the transformer rating?

3300 Vdc at 900 mA would be the DC current required from the rectifiers and filter C. The AC rms current the secondary would need to supply would be something like Iac = Sec. Idc X 1.613 where 0.9A x 1.613 = 1.45 amperes AC if it's designed by the recommended standards for using a FWB with cap input. If it uses a choke input for the filter circuit though, the rms current needed will be lower. For a FWB with a choke input, it would be Iac = Sec. Idc X 1.064. Below is some handy formulas for the two rectifier types.

*** The psu is a FWB with a resonant choke input filter.

FWB, C input;

Vdc peak = 1.414 X Sec. Vac

Vavg = 0.90 X Sec. Vac

Vac = Sec. Vdc peak X 0.707

Idc = 0.62 X Sec. Iac

Iac = Sec. Idc X 1.613

====================================

FWB, L input;

Vdc peak = 0.90 X Sec. Vac

Vavg = 0.90 X Sec. Vac

Vac = Sec. Vdc peak X 1.111

Idc = 0.94 X Sec. Iac

Iac = Sec. Idc X 1.064

One would need to know the core dimensions of the transformer in square inches to roughly determine what its power rating capability is. That's the tongue width times the stack thickness. It's the same for EI or C type cores.

*** By tongue do you mean the centre part of the E lamination? That measures about 2"x4". Stack thickness is 5"

As I become more acquainted with this amp it does seem as if the 3-

500

tubes are less than the rest of the amp is capable of. I wonder

what

might be a good candidate for transplant?

Martin, HS0ZED

Best,

Will



Yahoo! Groups Links

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., Martin Sole <msole@...> wrote:

I have recently had a little time to investigate my Henry 2K

Classic X a

little more. The transformers are marked South Gate and the part

number

on the high voltage transformer is ECA 1171. Quoting the spec:

OUTPUT POWER
2K-Classic X (Export Model) - 1800 watts PEP nominal (3000 watts

PEP

nominal input).

DUTY CYCLE
2K-Classic and 2K-Classic X- Continuous at rated output.

Soooo...

With about 3300 volts on load (3700 off load) as per the front

panel

meter. I guess the transformer is good for about 900mA continuous?

Does anybody have a more informed idea about the transformer rating?

3300 Vdc at 900 mA would be the DC current required from the
rectifiers and filter C. The AC rms current the secondary would need
to supply would be something like Iac = Sec. Idc X 1.613 where 0.9A x
1.613 = 1.45 amperes AC if it's designed by the recommended standards
for using a FWB with cap input. If it uses a choke input for the
filter circuit though, the rms current needed will be lower. For a
FWB with a choke input, it would be Iac = Sec. Idc X 1.064. Below is
some handy formulas for the two rectifier types.

FWB, C input;

Vdc peak = 1.414 X Sec. Vac

Vavg = 0.90 X Sec. Vac

Vac = Sec. Vdc peak X 0.707

Idc = 0.62 X Sec. Iac

Iac = Sec. Idc X 1.613

====================================

FWB, L input;

Vdc peak = 0.90 X Sec. Vac

Vavg = 0.90 X Sec. Vac

Vac = Sec. Vdc peak X 1.111

Idc = 0.94 X Sec. Iac

Iac = Sec. Idc X 1.064

One would need to know the core dimensions of the transformer in
square inches to roughly determine what its power rating capability
is. That's the tongue width times the stack thickness. It's the same
for EI or C type cores.

As I become more acquainted with this amp it does seem as if the 3-

500

tubes are less than the rest of the amp is capable of. I wonder

what

might be a good candidate for transplant?

Martin, HS0ZED

Best,

Will

I have recently had a little time to investigate my Henry 2K Classic X a little more. The transformers are marked South Gate and the part number on the high voltage transformer is ECA 1171. Quoting the spec:

OUTPUT POWER
2K-Classic X (Export Model) - 1800 watts PEP nominal (3000 watts PEP nominal input).

DUTY CYCLE
2K-Classic and 2K-Classic X- Continuous at rated output.

Soooo...

With about 3300 volts on load (3700 off load) as per the front panel meter. I guess the transformer is good for about 900mA continuous?

Does anybody have a more informed idea about the transformer rating?

As I become more acquainted with this amp it does seem as if the 3-500 tubes are less than the rest of the amp is capable of. I wonder what might be a good candidate for transplant?

Martin, HS0ZED

On Jan 18, 2007, at 6:11 AM, FRANCIS CARCIA wrote:

I wonder if you just wrapped a few turns of wire around the end of the input choke with a pick up probe near the tube this phase shift could be controlled.

^^ That's pretty what RCA "neutralization" consists of.

Also may need a LRC network....just dreaming sounds like something to simulate.

^^ In actual practice, it's something to regenerate.

R L Measures <r@...> wrote:


On Jan 17, 2007, at 2:11 PM, FRANCIS CARCIA wrote:

Check the old RCA transmitting tube handbook showing how to apply
RF negative feedback to quad 811s

^^ The trouble with the RCA circuit is that while the feedback is
negative at HF, due to phase shift in the associated wiring as
frequency increases, the feedback becomes slightly positive c. 95MHz
and oscillation can result. Gonset and Heath tried the RCA
"neutralization" circuit and dropped it like a hot potato.
...
R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

On Jan 18, 2007, at 12:38 PM, Harold Mandel wrote:

Oh, wow!



3CX1200A7’s, making RF power with no drive.



Can we squeeze an XT-cut crystal in their somewhere

to tune the output frequency?

Probably not since g-g stages usually oscillate above the grid
resonance,

R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "hbmandel" <ka1xo@...> wrote:

Additionally, the 4-1000A, with a 6KV at 1 Amp

anode requirement needs a power supply to suit, and
while transformers and diodes are plentiful, adequate
filter caps are not, and those that are available are
hellishly expensive once the array is gathered to
afford low ripple at maximum amperage.

### I ran my last 4-1000 with just 4400 V under load of 600Ma.
[4800 v no load].

### With 120 w of drive from a Drake T4XC... it would produce 1950
w output.

### The last batch of new surplus lytics I bought were $10.00
each..... 2500 UF @ 450 v The ones u see ont he photo page
are a combo of 3700 UF @ 350 V [3" x 6"] and 5200 UF @ 350 V
[3" x 9"]

### These new 2500 UF @ 450 V lytics I bought are tiny things... 2"
diam x 4" long.... rated at a whopping 9.7 A CCS ripple current
[120 hz] . Use V squared x uf and then divide by 2,000,000
to calculate joules. Globs of energy storage from a string of
these new wonder caps.... = zip for ripple + superb dynamic
regulation.

Later.... Jim VE7RF

Hal Mandel
W4HBM

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., 1800 Toll Free
<TollFree1800@...> wrote:

It's more for people to look and see what's coming for the YC-243

tube he

is putting together.


Supposed to be a nice manual coming down the pike for that tube

from him... This was a preview of "what's to come"....

Yeah, very nice manual.

#### Bob was refering to the 2nd file I posted. [almost 3 meg] 2nd
file is the 84 page mod document for the Yaesu FT-1000 MK-V that
Mike W5CUL and myself wrote last spring. In PDF format. Bob...
if the file ever becomes too full.... I'll blow it out. Fellows can
take the MK-V mod document and put in on their desk top if they
want to.. and also feel free to send to your buddy's. We corrected
all the yaesu error's and ommison's in both the op and srvc manual.

### I'm working on re-drawing all the 3x6 and YC-243 schematics in
my spare time.. then my draftsman buddy in VE5 land is going to use
his cad program to put em all into one PDF file.... which will get
posted. That will take some time.. as it's a tedious project.
The end result is something that's drawn out right.. easy to read,
detailed notes, options, parts list url's, etc. Say tuned.

### PDF #1 I posted is the peliminary spec sheet for the Eimac YC-
243 that Reid Brandon from Eimac, sent to me. It does have some
minor errors in it.. which have to be fixed.

Later... Jim VE7RF

--Toll_Free

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 08:10:09 -0800, KR4DA <kr4da@...> wrote:

Hi,
Pentalab I don't see how this is AMPS related.
BUT I will let it stay as long as there is ROOM in the fileing

cabinet.

We are at 37 percent usage and this is a very nice file.

How about some stuff about the FT-2000 PRIVATELY if
you have any.

Thanks..... carry on...

Bob KR4DA retired (So Bell divestiture) ATT computers systems

and DATA

services customer
services engineer. (That's what they called us... I never

thought it

should be
engineer in the title)

ham_amplifiers@... wrote:

--- In ham_amplifiers@..., "Peter Voelpel" <df3kv@...>
wrote:

A pair is 1040 US$, 20$ for sockets and they can be rebuilt as

well and fit

in a desktop cabinet.
I would not use a pair, but a single tube.

#### since when did anybody start building 8877's that can actually
be rebuilt ??? I find that really hard to believe. $1040 US
dollars for a 2 x 8877 amp is money wasted imo. A single 8877
for a VHF/uhf project would be a good use for a 8877.

Anode dissipation of the YC-243 is 9KW?

### Yes. Just blow more air into it per my calcs. The YC-243 is
just a socketless 3CX-6000A7.. with same air cooling specs. The
3x6 and YC-243 is rated at 6 kw anode diss CCS.... with the
following specs..... 204 cfm @ .4" h20 pressure... and an inlet
air temp of 50 deg C [121 deg f] . I calculated that by using
310 CFM... the tube would require .9" h20 pressure......... and by
using an inlet air temp of 20 deg C [68 deg F].... anode diss would
be an easy 9700 w ccs. IF inlet air temp is a little higher...
like 25 deg C [77 deg F].... anode diss is still 9200 W ccs.

### The Dayton 5C508 blower will easily provide 320 cfm @ .9" h20
[when run on 1425 rpm high speed.... low speed is 1100 rpm]

### Bottom line is the 3x6 and YC-243 have a 6.125" OD anode
cooler.... which is a LOT bigger diam than a 4CX-5000A7 or YC-156
[both are 4.94" OD] In addition... the 3x6 and YC-243[and the
3x3] have a SMALLER diam ceramic stem... way smaller diam compared
to the 4CX-5000A7 and YC-156... and also the 4CX-10,000A7's...
3x10's etc.

## With a smaller diam ceramic stem.. AND a big diam cooler.... just
increase the air flow by 50%... and simultaneously use a more
reasonable 20-25 deg C inlet air temp......... and yes... it's
actually 9700 W CCS anode diss.

## When I 1st saw that... "204 cfm @ .4" rating... I knew right
there, that this tube [3x6 + YC-243] was a prime candidate for
an easy increase in anode diss. The trick is... all the
aftermarket chimney's for the 3x6, YC-243 are straight up/down
types.... which really restrict airflow... since you can only bore
a small ring of holes in chassis.. between grid ring and ID of
chimney. Hence the 9.5" square box you see depicted on photo
pages. New ones use a taller box.. with a solid teflon top...... no
aftermarket chimney required. THEN... u can bore just one ring of
BIG diam holes. The trick is the SURFACE area of the holes in
chassis should be the same or greater than the underside fin area
of the tube in use. You hardly have any underside fin area on a
YC-156.... hence the hideous pressures required... just to get 5 kw
anode diss.

### Check the airflow specs on tubes like the YC-156.... they
require huge amounts of pressure. Look at a 3x 10 vs a 3x 15.
Both have the same 7.05" diam cooler.... same weight, etc.... they
just blow more air on a 3 x 15. You blow the same amount of air
on a 3x10.... and u now have turned the 3x10 into a 3x15.

### Using the above improved cooling scheme, the air temp out of a
3x6 is barely warm with 13 kw PEP out on ssb. Let the VOX drop
out.... run 30' over to amp as fast as you can, and you will have
COLD air coming out of the 3x6 / YC-243 !!!

The price of the Svetlana YC-243 equivalent is 650US$ here

### Svetlana does NOT make a YC-243... only Eimac... and Only
available from Arnold Howell Of Howell Tube sales... since it is his
design. Svetlana does NOT make a socketless 3x6. Svetlana does
make a 3CX-3000F7... same as Eimac. [ F7 version has 3 x flex
leads] The YC-243 is going to be around $1100 - $1200 US
funds... and IS rebuildable.

Later........ Jim VE7RF

73
Peter


________________________________

From: ham_amplifiers@...

[mailto:ham_amplifiers@...]

On Behalf Of pentalab


### How much is 400 Euro's in US dollars ?? Think it's at least
$600-$700.... + socket. $1400.00 for 2 of em.... not a
chance... no bargain there. A YC-243 is still a way better deal
at $1100- $1200.... and is the electrical eq of 6 x 8877's. The
YC-243 can also be rebuilt over and over.

## Have fun trying to play "matched pair" with 8877's.

开云体育

开云体育

It's rated 6kw, but it's been found with a slightly different cooling scheme and the resultant increase in airflow, that it can be run > 9000 watts anode dissipation... Depending on air intake temp...


If I'm not mistaken :)

--Toll_Free

--



*Ratings are for transistors, tubes have guidelines*

It's more for people to look and see what's coming for the YC-243 tube he is putting together.


Supposed to be a nice manual coming down the pike for that tube from him... This was a preview of "what's to come"....


Yeah, very nice manual.


--Toll_Free

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 04:22:37 -0800, R L Measures <r@...> wrote:

On Jan 17, 2007, at 4:04 PM, 1800 Toll Free wrote:

The 8877 is a waste of money, for the dollars they choose to demand
for it.



For the price of a new 8877 you can purchase an 8170 and socket on the
used / pull market.

However, an 8877 is easier to put on 10m/11m than an 8170.

That quantifies the 'builders' vs the 'tech'.

The builder hasn't a clue as to why this part goes here, just that someone told him. If he starts getting oscillations or any other problem in the 8170, he hasn't a clue as to why. It gets shipped here, fixed, and he is the hero.

The 8170 is harder to put most any place. It has tons more gain. However, ditch the intermediate amp you need with the triodes, and the cost / watt ratio really goes down... Especially when you figure in the problems you get with paralleling multiple tubes.... As someone else had pointed out, good luck getting a "really" matched pair of 3CX1500?s ...

Myself, I like to blow the 3CX1000 really hard.

For about the same amount of money you can get all the parts..
Sure, your
power xformer will cost a bit more for the anode voltage, but you will
have a lot more life out of the tube / amp.

Good point, and, as an added FREE bonus, it's instant-on.

cheers, Mr. ______?

And since your pumping 14kw out of the 8170, and not trying to pump 7 or more kw out of the pair of 8877s, everything is happier... Except the technician.

As to whom I am, We've been in contact before. I ran across you on amps more than a decade ago, and you, not knowing it, enabled me to build my first 8170 amp. Didn't do plywood, but... Also have a pretty kick ass SB220 that between you, K5PRO and Dennis Ostrowski is a hot little item as well. Long live the TS440 :)

I'm also a friend of Dino's. He tried to get me to purchase the plywood box when it was for sale not too long ago. Bought a house instead.

Just call me Free..... Toll_Free lol. I have a call, but since I flaunt 11 meter high power operation, it behooves me to keep it under wraps.


Thanks!

--Toll_Free

The glass tubes aren't being made anymore.... At least, not
affordably.
That means it's a waste of money / time to build around them.

It's a reflection of state of the art, or hollow state, if you
will. the
russian tubes are being used because they are cheap, not because of
any
big difference in technology.


This, of course, is just ramblings from some stupid CBer :)


--Toll_Free







On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:28:50 -0800, alphasxsignal
<videorov@...>
wrote:

Seems to be alot of hams going to the GU84B tubes for their Big
amps over the 8877 or even the old 4-1000.

--



*Ratings are for transistors, tubes have guidelines*



Yahoo! Groups Links

R. L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734
r@..., rlm@..., www.somis.org

--



*Ratings are for transistors, tubes have guidelines*