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Some thoughts regarding frequency entry on an FT81x series radio.
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I have one of those BHI keypads and I've only used it to confirm that it works. It can change bands and modes too. The issue for me is that it's just way too big. In fairness that's part of the design since it was intended to provide a tilt facility for the radio too, but a keypad that is almost as large as a portable radio is an epic fail in my view, and it looks like a "My First Wireless Set" that Dorling Kindersly might have sold. No doubt great for the visually impaired though.
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I suppose that most are aware of the MH36 mic which has a keypad? This provides only enter DTMF codes as in not CTCSS and is non-functional for anything much on an FT81x series radio anyway, but it'll work fine on the FT857 and FT897 radios. Come on Yaesu- why? I know you'll never address this point but it won't stop me from asking.
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Here's the thing, the MH59 outputs frequency as well as DTMF codes for the FT857 and FT897, so the codes from the keypad matrix are there. The BHI keypad (and I imagine all the other keypad solutions) access the FT81x's microprocessor via the rear panel port. They can't be different codes from those that? the mic generates? Really? The FT81x, FT857 and FT897 share many attributes and I suspect that these logic control signals are not an exception.
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Following that reasoning, I bought a modular "Y" cable with a view to making a "break-out" for the MH59 mic lead. One socket going to two plugs. I thought maybe I could remove one of the modular plugs and solder on a rear panel port connector to the appropriate pins, or more likely splice a cut off cable to it and with a tail wind it might allow frequency input to the FT81x using the MH59. I never had the confidence to try this, partly because I'd read about possible gotchas when using a "Y" cable to connect more than one device to the rear panel port, but largely due to a lack of basic understanding of what I would be getting into. I then bought a 2 into 1 port sharing thingy from BHI, plugged it in to confirm it worked and never used that again either.
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Since my '818 locks up if I PTT when I simultaneously have a morse key connected and I've not been able to "fix" that, you can understand why I've lost interest in trying to work around this keypad "issue".
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Steve, G4VRR.
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Just popped over to Ebay and Gigaparts has one of the BHI Radiomate listed and shows several more available. New units
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On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at 12:52 AM, Ken N2VIP wrote:
I understand you want a keyboard to enter freq in the field 'on-the-fly',
I did once start to make a handheld device with a 4 x 4 keypad, a small mono LCD text panel and buttons under it about 15 years ago. Then changed to graphics LCD. 18Fxxx PIC micro and programmed in JAL. It was powered from 817ND and used CAT commands. I may have started with an 18F4550 and then started to change to a 18F67J50.
I had to change the 4 x 4 to a 3 x 4 and add 4 tact switches to use the case
I simulated the display and program in VB6 on XP with real serial port to FT817 to test the CAT commands and structure.
I'd send all the files to anyone experienced with Eagle, JAL and PIC. Some example Eagle schematic/PCB and JAL programmes attached.
Cases, CPUs, PIC programmers etc available free if you pay shipping. I'm not going to take up JAL or other programming and Electronics again.
Surely someone still sells similar?
(BTW I think Duck Duck Go is now better than Google, for a given definition of better)
There used to be a BHI Radio Mate, but I never bought one because the keypad was the horrible flat kind.
Someone also put a microcontroler and IR rx with CAT interface in a box so a TV remote could be used. Photo added.
I did recently try an Android CAT control App which requires an OTG adaptor and suitable serial / USB etc to CAT port. I have a custom mini-DIN to serial DB9 RS232 (SMD TTL to RS232 in the DB9 case, maybe a MAX232) + jack (analogue band voltage for the Auto ATU) and also direct CAT - USB adaptor for FT817 and compatible. I forget which I tried as I also have a USB - DB9 RS232 adaptor that works with the DB9 adaptor
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The IR remote control to CAT seems to be by KE8WO
Files.
It's for a Sony remote, but the source seems to be BASIC and the RC6 used by many IR remotes is well documented. I wrote SW to learn an RC6 remote on a PC via IR RX on RS232 handshake and transmitt IR using LED and 555 timer for 38 kHz turned on/off by HS pin. Then a Philips Photo/Portfolio CD could be used to control anything.
Then that info programmed in JAL for a standalone box with other features.
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A frequency entry device that attaches to the rear of the FT-8x7 series radios is connected to, and communicating with the radio via CAT commands over a serial port.
A microphone that attaches to the front radio microphone jack communicates with the radio over the RJ45 connection and *likely* uses some special, non-CAT protocol/logic (if you could CAT control the radio over the mic connection I *suspect* that would have been noticed/documented by now).
It would take a sophisticated device to translate the protocol the microphone 'speaks' with the CAT commands the radio accepts via the rear connection (the MH59 mic has a dedicated chip that controls all button interactions, translating them into a form of serial data).
I *suspect* the FT-817/818 microphone jack on the radio is wired differently than on the FT-857/897 radios, and no external device can overcome that design issue. To confirm this, one would need to compare MH59 mic wiring diagram and then evaluate the mic connection of the FT-817 with that of the FT-857/897 radios. The three FT-8x7 radios share many, many similarities, but they are not identical, as easily proven by an examination of the physical board, the display circuitry, and the control (knobs/buttons) selection. (They are not the same radio
MH59 circuit diagram:?
It appears the microprocessor in the MH59 talks to and listens to the radio over pins 7 and 8 (the up/down button lines)
FT-817 service manual:?
FT-857 service manual:?
I tried to follow the two circuit diagrams for the two radios, and I couldn't make sense of them.
Interesting question, I hope the above can help a more knowledgeable reader figure out (and share) a definitive answer.
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On Aug 15, 2024, at 03:58, Steve <g4vrr57@...> wrote:
Here's the thing, the MH59 outputs frequency as well as DTMF codes for the FT857 and FT897, so the codes from the keypad matrix are there. The BHI keypad (and I imagine all the other keypad solutions) access the FT81x's microprocessor via the rear panel port. They can't be different codes from those that? the mic generates? Really? The FT81x, FT857 and FT897 share many attributes and I suspect that these logic control signals are not an exception.
?
Following that reasoning, I bought a modular "Y" cable with a view to making a "break-out" for the MH59 mic lead. One socket going to two plugs. I thought maybe I could remove one of the modular plugs and solder on a rear panel port connector to the appropriate pins, or more likely splice a cut off cable to it and with a tail wind it might allow frequency input to the FT81x using the MH59.
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I'm not sure who was originally looking for the direct entry keypad from bhi, however I do have one and would be willing to let it go under certain conditions.? KA6PSD?
Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device
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-------- Original message -------- From: "Ken N2VIP via groups.io" <ken@...> Date: 8/15/24 7:22 AM (GMT-07:00) Subject: Re: [ft817] Frequency programming keypad
A frequency entry device that attaches to the rear of the FT-8x7 series radios is connected to, and communicating with the radio via CAT commands over a serial port.
A microphone that attaches to the front radio microphone jack communicates with the radio over the RJ45 connection and *likely* uses some special, non-CAT protocol/logic (if you could CAT control the radio over the mic connection I *suspect* that would have been noticed/documented by now).
It would take a sophisticated device to translate the protocol the microphone 'speaks' with the CAT commands the radio accepts via the rear connection (the MH59 mic has a dedicated chip that controls all button interactions, translating them into a form of serial data).
I *suspect* the FT-817/818 microphone jack on the radio is wired differently than on the FT-857/897 radios, and no external device can overcome that design issue. To confirm this, one would need to compare MH59 mic wiring diagram and then evaluate the mic connection of the FT-817 with that of the FT-857/897 radios. The three FT-8x7 radios share many, many similarities, but they are not identical, as easily proven by an examination of the physical board, the display circuitry, and the control (knobs/buttons) selection. (They are not the same radio
MH59 circuit diagram:?
It appears the microprocessor in the MH59 talks to and listens to the radio over pins 7 and 8 (the up/down button lines)
FT-817 service manual:?
FT-857 service manual:?
I tried to follow the two circuit diagrams for the two radios, and I couldn't make sense of them.
Interesting question, I hope the above can help a more knowledgeable reader figure out (and share) a definitive answer. Ken, N2VIP On Aug 15, 2024, at 03:58, Steve <g4vrr57@...> wrote:
Here's the thing, the MH59 outputs frequency as well as DTMF codes for the FT857 and FT897, so the codes from the keypad matrix are there. The BHI keypad (and I imagine all the other keypad solutions) access the FT81x's microprocessor via the rear panel port. They can't be different codes from those that? the mic generates? Really? The FT81x, FT857 and FT897 share many attributes and I suspect that these logic control signals are not an exception.
?
Following that reasoning, I bought a modular "Y" cable with a view to making a "break-out" for the MH59 mic lead. One socket going to two plugs. I thought maybe I could remove one of the modular plugs and solder on a rear panel port connector to the appropriate pins, or more likely splice a cut off cable to it and with a tail wind it might allow frequency input to the FT81x using the MH59.
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The FT817 mic socket can't be used to input frequency.
You could have a small adaptor connected to rear CAT port and powered from it and also plugged into the mic socket. It would need an MT8870 or similar DTMF decoder and a PIC. Then you could plug in a mic with a DTMF keypad and a switch/button on box would accept digits with perhaps * as decimal and # as enter/finish. Possibly the box could use a mic button or keyopad code and flash a red LED while digits entered and the FT817 will show success when # is pressed.
There are various mics with DTMF keypads.
It would be a simple project that could be assembled on stripboard. Any Atmel/PIC simple mpu with enough pins will do. The mpu pins can connect direct to CAT data pins.
Then also you'd have DTMF on the 817 for controlling repeaters and gateways. I've a mic off a dead Icom (someone stole display), but I don't know its connections.
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Hello Dave
Not sure if anyone has posted this but G4JNT posted a suitable project for keypad entry for the FT-817 some time ago. Looks pretty straight forwards to build and might be worth a look?
A kind of preset project was also published in Radcom by G1EXG in September 2015
Kind Regards
Kevin G6UCY
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Does anyone make a keypad for 817?? I think bhi did at one time but it's not shown on their website now.? Dave
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Thanks to everyone for ideas and suggestions.? I think I'll look for a portable receiver or maybe a transceiver and call it quits.? Thanks again.? Dave? K2ZU
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Good luck Dave, that sounds like a good plan.
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On Aug 15, 2024, at 21:47, Dave Martin <kc7nj73@...> wrote:
? Thanks to everyone for ideas and suggestions.? I think I'll look for a portable receiver or maybe a transceiver and call it quits.? Thanks again.? Dave? K2ZU
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The Yaesu MH-59 dtmf microphone has ability to direct frequency entry
73's
John Earnshaw
M0JFE?
Ride the waves and make new friends
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Hello Dave
Not sure if anyone has posted this but G4JNT posted a suitable project for keypad entry for the FT-817 some time ago. Looks pretty straight forwards to build and might be worth a look?
A kind of preset project was also published in Radcom by G1EXG in September 2015
Kind Regards
Kevin G6UCY
Does anyone make a keypad for 817?? I think bhi did at one time but it's not shown on their website now.? Dave
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Hi John
The DTMF mic will not do direct frequency entry on the 817/818 ,
Dave 2E0DMB
The Yaesu MH-59 dtmf microphone has ability to direct frequency entry
73's
John Earnshaw
M0JFE?
Ride the waves and make new friends
Hello Dave
Not sure if anyone has posted this but G4JNT posted a suitable project for keypad entry for the FT-817 some time ago. Looks pretty straight forwards to build and might be worth a look?
A kind of preset project was also published in Radcom by G1EXG in September 2015
Kind Regards
Kevin G6UCY
Does anyone make a keypad for 817?? I think bhi did at one time but it's not shown on their website now.? Dave
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.Works on the 857 & 897 . How odd. On Aliexpress there used to be a cat unit copy of BHI product rig master.
De John M0JFE??
"Ride the waves and make new friends
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi John
The DTMF mic will not do direct frequency entry on the 817/818 ,
Dave 2E0DMB
The Yaesu MH-59 dtmf microphone has ability to direct frequency entry
73's
John Earnshaw
M0JFE?
Ride the waves and make new friends
Hello Dave
Not sure if anyone has posted this but G4JNT posted a suitable project for keypad entry for the FT-817 some time ago. Looks pretty straight forwards to build and might be worth a look?
A kind of preset project was also published in Radcom by G1EXG in September 2015
Kind Regards
Kevin G6UCY
Does anyone make a keypad for 817?? I think bhi did at one time but it's not shown on their website now.? Dave
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Hi John? Yes the 857, has cat control on the mic socket, the 817,818 does not, only cat on the rear of the radio, Dave 2E0DMB?
.Works on the 857 & 897 . How odd. On Aliexpress there used to be a cat unit copy of BHI product rig master.
De John M0JFE??
"Ride the waves and make new friends
Hi John
The DTMF mic will not do direct frequency entry on the 817/818 ,
Dave 2E0DMB
The Yaesu MH-59 dtmf microphone has ability to direct frequency entry
73's
John Earnshaw
M0JFE?
Ride the waves and make new friends
Hello Dave
Not sure if anyone has posted this but G4JNT posted a suitable project for keypad entry for the FT-817 some time ago. Looks pretty straight forwards to build and might be worth a look?
A kind of preset project was also published in Radcom by G1EXG in September 2015
Kind Regards
Kevin G6UCY
Does anyone make a keypad for 817?? I think bhi did at one time but it's not shown on their website now.? Dave
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I have the bhi key pad and cat mate
Do you want to work a deal ?
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Steve
Ron
Mike EI9FEB
