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At least one MP-1 which is not so hot.
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A few weeks ago I picked up an 817 and MP-1 ready to tackle portable
HF again. After calling and returning to CQs for about three days across a two week period, I had one contact under my belt: someone 12 miles away. I've tried all HF bands, and the MP-1 adjusted down below 1.5:1 on each band so I wasn't even using a tuner. Becoming pretty discouraged, I decided to throw out a long wire and see where I stood with that. Just as I did, I heard a CQ and the opr came back to me with a 589 (he was also in CA). Quite a change. Just as that QSO completed I had another contact and this opr. offered to wait around while I swapped back to the MP-1. After doing so he came back and said that he never would have responded to me initially as I was so far down in the noise. This station was in Sonoma County. Going back to the long wire, we completed the QSO. Needless to say, I'm a little sceptical about this antenna. This coupled with the fact that the 817 mount doesn't have the holes drilled properly so only two screws can be used to hold it to the 817. I emailed this issue, with photos, to Vern but it's been two weeks with no reply. I guess it's going to cost me a return trip to Livermore to get that resolved. Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions to offer on the performance of this antenna I'd appreciate it. At the moment I'll keep it in the junk box. |
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David Perry
Glad you feel that way. I feel the same about the ATX. Strange how som
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guys can get good reslts and others, well... davidG4YVM ----- Original Message -----
From: <genemarshall@...> To: <FT817@...> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 10:55 PM Subject: [FT817] At least one MP-1 which is not so hot. A few weeks ago I picked up an 817 and MP-1 ready to tackle portableQuestions ) see
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Gene,
I've never heard of a whip that could compete with a long wire for short skip (or any other propagation mode for that matter) There is nothing magical about the MP-1. It's still just a whip, and will perform as well as other whips it's size. Nevertheless, it can and does work the world. -- Brian N0KZ --- In FT817@y..., genemarshall@i... wrote: A few weeks ago I picked up an 817 and MP-1 ready to tackle portable12 miles away. I've tried all HF bands, and the MP-1 adjusted downbelow 1.5:1 on each band so I wasn't even using a tuner.I was so far down in the noise. This station was in Sonoma County. |
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Glyph
Gene -- an MP-1 has its place, but as you learned, it has its limitations!
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Maybe if it had been 20 feet off the ground, the results would've been better. It would really be fun to have an antenna "shoot-out" all at one time, using 5 watts. I've seen it done with mobile (auto) antennas. Let's see, the shoot-out would have a couple of the antennas designed for the 817, an MP-1, a simple dipole, a long wire, a yagi beam, a vertical, etc. Of course, even then, the results would be hard to compare precisely because of the directionality and take-off angles of some of the antennas. Like -- what's the directionality of a long wire (I'm thinking 100 feet -- 30 meters -- or more). -- Bil KD6JUI ----- Original Message -----
From: <genemarshall@...> To: <FT817@...> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 2:55 PM Subject: [FT817] At least one MP-1 which is not so hot. A few weeks ago I picked up an 817 and MP-1 ready to tackle portableQuestions ) see
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Peter Zenker
Gene,
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dont forget this points: 1. The PM-1 will result in a 2-3 S-Units lower signal compared to a dipol in good shape. If you produce a "just above noise" signal with a dipol, you will not be heard with the PM-1 2. All extrem short Monopole Antennas like the PM-1 have a significant greater dead zone due to very flat vertical radiation angle. 3. A long wire gives good gain in two directions. Hard to compare with an antenna which produces a round pattern. IMHO Antennas as rigs are not "good" or "bad", they are good under some circumstances and bad under others. How good is my FT1000D if I use it as a portable rig? In my garden I use a GAP Titan and a G5RV installed at only 7m hight. If I try to make contacts below 1000 km, I prefere the G5RV because its 3 to 4 S Units better the the GAP. At DX contacts the GAP outperforms the G5RV. So it was a good idea to compare the GAP with the PM-1. The GAP was ways "better" then the PM-1 on DX contacts - BUT - have you ever tried to carry a GAP Titan with you while biking or travelling by aeroplane? If I see a chance to carry a real Antenna with me and to install it, I do. If I am on short trips the discussion is another. Its not to be discussed what Antenna is the best, but it the Question Antenna or no Antenna ;-) So I decided to have the PM-1 instead of no Antenna. 72/73 de Peter, DL2FI German QRP Group DL-QRP-AG QRPproject QRP and homebrew international -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- |
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David Perry
Peter,
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I think you make sensible points but ones which miss the point. The MP1 and the ATX are SUPPOSED to work nder suboptimal condx when taken out and about with a PORTABLE rig...the 817. Your 1000MP would not mke a good /p rig, but if you did set it up in the field, suit6abley powered as it is SUPPOSED to be it WOULD work well. I eel the chaps getting good reports from their APs and ATXs should tell us their height AMSL. Might have something to do with t. I read a report last night from a chap in (the?) high sierras. Sure he got a good report...he was 5000ft amsl. He I am about 300 feet, so my aerials ren't good. But they are SUPPOSED to be, so they fail. ATX and MP1? use 'em as fishing poles. Throw up a dipole or a doublet (join the ends for low band ), use a tuner and off you go. I have bought an aluminium case for my rig now, houses the rig, the tuner, a wire aerial and a small flask of malt whiskey! Grab the case, go for a walk and have a lot of fun. The ATX stays at home where my wife uses it to annoy the cat. I have said it before and it's worth reiterating...the 817 is good, but let's not pretend it enables us to go handheld HF on a five inch rubber duck. It doesn't, what it does do is enable us to take radio where we couldn't before. But the laws of AC physics hven't changed to accommodate Yaesu. Regards, David ----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Zenker" <dl2fi@...> To: <FT817@...> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 9:15 AM Subject: RE: [FT817] At least one MP-1 which is not so hot. in good shape. If you produce a "just above noise" signal with a dipol, youa portable rig?S Units better the the GAP. At DX contacts the GAP outperforms the G5RV. Soit was a good idea to compare the GAP with the PM-1. The GAP was ways"better" then the PM-1 on DX contacts - BUT - have you ever tried to carry a GAPI decided to have the PM-1 instead of no Antenna. Questions ) see
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Very true. I think Yaesu would have done us all a favour (well, maybe
not the manufacturers of expensive portable whips, but the rest of us) if instead of putting that tempting BNC socket on the front panel they had built in a QRP version of an SGC autocoupler, and encouraged us to use wire antennas instead. Julian, G4ILO --- In FT817@y..., "David Perry" <david.perry3@v...> wrote: I have said it before and it's worth reiterating...the 817 is good,but let's not pretend it enables us to go handheld HF on a five inchrubber duck. It doesn't, what it does do is enable us to take radio wherewe couldn't before. But the laws of AC physics hven't changed toaccommodate Yaesu. |
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--- In FT817@y..., "David Perry" <david.perry3@v...> wrote:
Peter,report last night from a chap in (the?) high sierras. Sure he got a goodreport...he was 5000ft amsl. He I am about 300 feet, so my aerials ren'tgood. But they are SUPPOSED to be, so they fail.The gegraphic location is going to change very little how one antenna performs compared to another - and a with an 8' long whip antenna, over the same ground, the only thing that is going to change performance is HOW it is loaded, what the Q of the loading is, where it is loaded, etc. I have others who live nearby but up higher with roughly equal antennas (Yagis or Quads) that can works stations with S-9 signals that I can hardly hear. Just like in business, it is location, location, location. But in this game, it is also propogation, propogation, propogation. The point, and others have made it, is that the MP1, for it's size, weight, portability, and CONVIENIENCE, is a very good antenna. It isn't always practical to put up a dipole, due to a variety of reasons - most commonly - no supports. I have bought an aluminium case for my rig now, houses the rig, thetuner, a wire aerial and a small flask of malt whiskey! Grab the case, gofor a walk and have a lot of fun. The ATX stays at home where my wife uses itto annoy the cat. What do I have in MY arsenal of portable antennas that I keep in a plastic tub ready to throw in the back of the van for a road trip? An SGC 231 with a 50' coax/power cable - wired up for my IC706IIG & IC740. An inexpensive manual MFJ tuner. Several spools of inexpensive 22 gauge speaker wire - for antenna elements and counterpoises. A variety of SO239 to 3/8 - 24 mounts - mounted on a c-clamp, vise- grip pliers, mega-triple-mag mount, tripod, mirror mount. An Outbacker Tri-Split (which may be replaced by the MP-1) An inexpensive short MFJ 2M/70CM magmount whith a whip that has a 3/8 - 24 thread mount. 2 25' lengths of RG8X with connectors and a barrel connector. A Hy-gain center-insulator that has screw terminals. Some end insulators. 2 spools of lightweight nylon string. Some fishing weights. A small switching 12volt / 20AMP supply with an Icom DC cable on it. An Icom DC cable with battery clips on the end and covered with spiral wrap protective plastic. What did I take with me on a recent trip to Mexico? My 817, a small power supply, the MP1 and it's mounts, 4 25' 14 gauge radials, and one of the 25' cables from the above. All in a back-pack that I could carry on. Did it work as well as if I had lugged all that other stuff, including the 706, with me and used it? Probably not. Could I have put up a dipole? No. Did I make some contacts? Yes. Did I have fun? Yes! It is ALWAYS interesting (to me) operating from a new location with less than optimal antennas, even if it is my in- laws house 20 miles away. Did I have as much fun as when I lugged all that other stuff to KH6 land 2 years ago? Yes. Is there one antenna that will ALWAYS fit the need and give the best results? No - but the MP-1, with (what I think is the key to that antenna) a longer lower mast section is about the closest thing I have found. But I think this is the biggest problem here - we are working with a low power radio and a relativly inefficent antenna - put that together, and you have 2 strikes against you. Put that in the hands of an experienced, skilled operator on CW and you will get a hit. Put the same in the hands of a "rookie" - especially on SSB - strike 3 - yer' out! That has a LOT to do with it also. but let's not pretend it enables us to go handheld HF on a five inchrubber duck. It doesn't, what it does do is enable us to take radio wherewe couldn't before. But the laws of AC physics hven't changed toaccommodate Yaesu.Yes - the laws of physics - it isn't just a good idea - it is the LAW!!! Don W6ZO a dipol indipol, yougood shape. If you produce a "just above noise" signal with a significantwill not be heard with the PM-1 with angreater dead zone due to very flat vertical radiation angle. under someantenna which produces a round pattern. use it ascircumstances and bad under others. How good is my FT1000D if I ahight. If Iportable rig? its 3 to 4try to make contacts below 1000 km, I prefere the G5RV because SG5RV. SoUnits better the the GAP. At DX contacts the GAP outperforms the ita GAPwas a good idea to compare the GAP with the PM-1. The GAP was ways"better"then the PM-1 on DX contacts - BUT - have you ever tried to carry it, I do.Titan with you while biking or travelling by aeroplane? discussedIf I am on short trips the discussion is another. Its not to be Antenna ;-) Sowhat Antenna is the best, but it the Question Antenna or no Idecided to have the PM-1 instead of no Antenna. portableGerman QRP Group DL-QRP-AG daysHF again. After calling and returning to CQs for about three someone 12across a two week period, I had one contact under my belt: belowmiles away. I've tried all HF bands, and the MP-1 adjusted down and1.5:1 on each band so I wasn't even using a tuner. the oprsee where I stood with that. Just as I did, I heard a CQ and Justcame back to me with a 589 (he was also in CA). Quite a change. offered toas that QSO completed I had another contact and this opr. camewait around while I swapped back to the MP-1. After doing so he initially as Iback and said that he never would have responded to me thewas so far down in the noise. This station was in Sonoma County. two817. I emailed this issue, with photos, to Vern but it's been trip toweeks with no reply. I guess it's going to cost me a return performance ofLivermore to get that resolved. thethis antenna I'd appreciate it. At the moment I'll keep it in junk box. Asked Questions ) see |
good,I have said it before and it's worth reiterating...the 817 is butwherelet's not pretend it enables us to go handheld HF on a five inchrubberduck. It doesn't, what it does do is enable us to take radio wecouldn't before. But the laws of AC physics hven't changed toaccommodateYaesu.Yes - the laws of physics - it isn't just a good idea - it is the You'd be surprised how the laws of physics bend under the laws of supply and demand, and marketing people who simply don't know what's impossible. Say you went back in time 10 years and suggested one antenna covering 50, 144, 440, and one thousand two hundred MEGAYCLES in one shot. Impossible? No, it's sitting on top of my Icom T-81. Or a mobile antenna performing from 7 to 450 MHz? Impossible! Or a rubber duck covering 80, 10 and 2m. Psycho... Do they work well? Perhaps not. But they do function. What was my point again? |
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Michael Melland
Vern at Super Antennas tells me you get better performance with the 2 foot
lower that comes with the mobile kit. I am waiting for my MP-1 to arrive. I had tested one a friend had and was impressed with it's performance. Several things that may be affecting some of those who report poor performance... Poor ground radials (counterpoise).... make em longer if you want to work 40 meters, antenna not properly tuned... these "screwdriver" types really tune sharp (touchy) and performance expectations way out of line with what one can expect with a portable field antenna. Don't expect the performance of your triband, GAP vertical or dipole at 40 feet. (although the MP-1 I used with the 2 ft lower and additional radials was at least as good if not better then the inverted V I pack along in the field and generally put up low.) Regards -- Michael Melland, W9WIS QRP-L #1656 QRPARCI #9875 SOC #142 FPQRP #244 IPARC #252 EN54pc Winnebago Cty, Wisc. |
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Brian Frobisher
This is a strange report
I visited another local Ham the other day and he had the ?2 foot? extension you talk about. But I do not think he had purchased the mobile kit for his MP-1. Is it possible that is now coming as part of the standard antenna kit? My MP-1 did not come with this 2 foot bottom rod, but I have also worked Spain, Poland and the Czech Republic with what I have from Los Angeles! on 7/12/01 9:34 AM, Michael Melland at w9wis@... wrote: Vern at Super Antennas tells me you get better performance with the 2 foot [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Michael Melland
Hi Brian,
The MP-1 as it is now shipping according to Vern comes with a 4 ft telescoping mast and 8 inch lower section. There is a "mobile kit" available for $15 that consist's of the 2 foot lower mast and a solid 4 foot upper mast. Perhaps the older and soon to be discontinued PW-1 version had a 2 foot lower as stock..... or earlier MP-1's did ??? Glad you are getting good results with the antenna..... as you should. It is actually a very efficient antenna when tuned properly and I really liked the one I tried out. Mine should be here any day now !!! Regards -- Michael Melland, W9WIS QRP-L #1656 QRPARCI #9875 SOC #142 FPQRP #244 IPARC #252 EN54pc Winnebago Cty, Wisc. |
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Tom Mc
Can anyone suggest what a more appropriate length would be for theI have the PW-1 which comes with the 12" lower mast. What I have tried is the Hustler 54" mast on the bottom as a replacement... Yes, it works better. Better enough to offset the cost of the Hustler mast... No! (only if you already have it) But anytime you get the coil higher it should work better, If I remember right it's (performance wise) base coil then middle then upper.... Which is why Hustler always used a longer mast and put the coil resonator at the upper end..... I've found the Hustler's to alway work FB on the mobile. all best Tom aa2vk -- **** * Member of NORCAL, NJQRP, LIQRP, SGCI * * K2 #1213 * * LIQRP Web Page: www.erols.com/tjmc/liqrp * * Personal web page : www.erols.com/tjmc * **** |
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