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hi guys, this is my first post and i know this is going to be a basic question for you guys but until you tell me the answer i dont know, i got the 817 to go out and about with not much weight but the battery life is not great as explained clearly on this site so i want to carry some more power for 8 hours now reading the posts here it seems that lipo power is the answer, now this is my silly question do you cut the output wire plug off ant solder on a jack plug and the put that in the 13v supply? or what, thanks in advance, steve m6ndq?
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Hi, My recommendation and what I did.? I have two pre made power cords. One has the plugs for the 827 and my LDG tuner and the other just for the radio. Both terminate to Power pole plugs.?
Get a Budipole Power mini, a Bioeno or similar LiFePo battery, a 28w solar panel, then terminate everything with power poles and you are pretty much self sustaining.?
There are other solutions, but this one provides a lot of flexibility.?
73,
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Well, there are several ways to skin a cat. I prefer a basketball needle and compressed air……. Just sayin…..
Internal battery: If you are not satisfied with the internal battery (and WHO is?), presently the best capacity internal battery is the Windcamp. They are a bit pricy, but it comes with a battery, and a charger built into the new supplied battery door. Everything else is second-rate. They are 3,000 mAh.
If you are willing to go to an external source, the sky is the limit.
RECOMMENDATION: Convert to Anderson Power Poles immediately, and use them. The stock power jack has two modes of failure, and if you use it often you are bound to discover one of them.
If you need a power pole kit to get you started, I highly recommend Power Werx. But then, I will always lean toward QUALITY over PRICE every time. They sell parts, kits, and wire. They’ve become my go-to place, and even my brother-in-law in Germany (Helmut-DG7NFV) uses them for his P-P work. Done right, they are impossible to cross-polarize, even in the dark.
Batteries: There are as many types as you can imagine. The FT-817 likes power at 12v or below. Anything approaching 16v is too much, and will only cause a lot of un-necessary heat in the internal regulators. A 3S Li-Lo is a wonderful choice. A 4S is too much.
If Li-Po scares you, then go to Li-Fe-Po4 (Lithium Nano-Phosphate). It does not have the energy density of Li-Po, but it is safer. Also costs more. But a 3S Li-Fe-Po4 is a perfect match to the needs of the FT-817. The best are sold by Buddi-Pole. They are really made for the field, complete with internal overcurrent protection etc.
One note: Li-Po and Li-Fe-Po4 need special chargers. They are not too expensive, but don’t try a SLAB charger, you will not like the result. Neither will your insurance company.
If weight is not an issue, then go FREE. Check out your local Alarm Service Company. Go in and BEG. They usually have a stack of SLABs (Sealed Lead Acid Battery) laying around that they need to dispose of. They swap them out every 6 months to a year, and mostly they just sat there on a float charge the whole time. Downside is that they are heavy. But a 7 or 10 amp SLAB will get you several hours of operation, and if you’re lucky it really was free for the asking. And the SLAB can use a regular charger.
Personally, for operations where I am not backpacking, I have a 25 w solar panel and a 12v 12A SLAB to power my FT-817, for Field Day like ops.
Hobby King is a good place to search bot batteries. IF – you want to learn more about batteries, go to Battery University.
This should be enough to get your head spinning. Of course, you can search for sources in your own country too. And perhaps you’ll be on the air in June, and can catch me as DL/KD5KC.
Vy73 - Mike - KD5KC.
El Paso, Texas - DM61rt.
SOTA W5T-Texas Association Manager.
NA-SOTA info is at: <>
From: FT817@... <FT817@...>
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 12:33 PM
To: FT817@...
Subject: [FT817] battery pack
hi guys, this is my first post and i know this is going to be a basic question for you guys but until you tell me the answer i dont know, i got the 817 to go out and about with not much weight but the battery life is not great as explained clearly on this site so i want to carry some more power for 8 hours now reading the posts here it seems that lipo power is the answer, now this is my silly question do you cut the output wire plug off ant solder on a jack plug and the put that in the 13v supply? or what, thanks in advance, steve m6ndq
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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OH…… forgot.
I wire other batteries internally by taking the AA-cell pack and unsoldering the plug and wires, and attaching them to the new battery pack. I bought several AA-packs and cut the wires and plugs off.
DO NOT use the AA-cell pack. It isn’t up to the task. And if you Stuffit with Mi-MH cells, you might get a very unwanted surprise.
If the new battery pack is Li-Po or Li-Fe-Po4, connect the green wire to the + side of the first cell (about 4v). This will inhibit your charger, so you cannot accidently charge the Li-Po inside the radio. That would not be good either.
Vy73 - Mike - KD5KC.
El Paso, Texas - DM61rt.
SOTA W5T-Texas Association Manager.
NA-SOTA info is at: <>
From: FT817@... <FT817@...>
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 12:33 PM
To: FT817@...
Subject: [FT817] battery pack
hi guys, this is my first post and i know this is going to be a basic question for you guys but until you tell me the answer i dont know, i got the 817 to go out and about with not much weight but the battery life is not great as explained clearly on this site so i want to carry some more power for 8 hours now reading the posts here it seems that lipo power is the answer, now this is my silly question do you cut the output wire plug off ant solder on a jack plug and the put that in the 13v supply? or what, thanks in advance, steve m6ndq
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Harbor Freight has a general purpose crimper < $10 that works just dandy on pp connectors. Im all for good tools, but i also dislike expensive tools that only do one thing. Just sayin.
Sonny n1khb
On Monday, April 15, 2019 'Mike Olbrisch' Mike-2020 <FT817@...> wrote:
?
Well, there are several ways to skin a cat. I prefer a basketball needle and compressed air……. Just sayin…..
Internal battery: If you are not satisfied with the internal battery (and WHO is?), presently the best capacity internal battery is the Windcamp. They are a bit pricy, but it comes with a battery, and a charger built into the new supplied battery door. Everything else is second-rate. They are 3,000 mAh.
If you are willing to go to an external source, the sky is the limit.
RECOMMENDATION: Convert to Anderson Power Poles immediately, and use them. The stock power jack has two modes of failure, and if you use it often you are bound to discover one of them.
https://www.ebay.com/i/223073076701?chn=ps
If you need a power pole kit to get you started, I highly recommend Power Werx. But then, I will always lean toward QUALITY over PRICE every time. They sell parts, kits, and wire. They’ve become my go-to place, and even my brother-in-law in Germany (Helmut-DG7NFV) uses them for his P-P work. Done right, they are impossible to cross-polarize, even in the dark.
https://powerwerx.com/
Batteries: There are as many types as you can imagine. The FT-817 likes power at 12v or below. Anything approaching 16v is too much, and will only cause a lot of un-necessary heat in the internal regulators. A 3S Li-Lo is a wonderful choice. A 4S is too much.
If Li-Po scares you, then go to Li-Fe-Po4 (Lithium Nano-Phosphate). It does not have the energy density of Li-Po, but it is safer. Also costs more. But a 3S Li-Fe-Po4 is a perfect match to the needs of the FT-817. The best are sold by Buddi-Pole. They are really made for the field, complete with internal overcurrent protection etc.
One note: Li-Po and Li-Fe-Po4 need special chargers. They are not too expensive, but don’t try a SLAB charger, you will not like the result. Neither will your insurance company.
If weight is not an issue, then go FREE. Check out your local Alarm Service Company. Go in and BEG. They usually have a stack of SLABs (Sealed Lead Acid Battery) laying around that they need to dispose of. They swap them out every 6 months to a year, and mostly they just sat there on a float charge the whole time. Downside is that they are heavy. But a 7 or 10 amp SLAB will get you several hours of operation, and if you’re lucky it really was free for the asking. And the SLAB can use a regular charger.
Personally, for operations where I am not backpacking, I have a 25 w solar panel and a 12v 12A SLAB to power my FT-817, for Field Day like ops.
Hobby King is a good place to search bot batteries. IF – you want to learn more about batteries, go to Battery University.
https://batteryuniversity.com/
This should be enough to get your head spinning. Of course, you can search for sources in your own country too. And perhaps you’ll be on the air in June, and can catch me as DL/KD5KC.
Vy73 - Mike - KD5KC.
El Paso, Texas - DM61rt.
SOTA W5T-Texas Association Manager.
NA-SOTA info is at: http://na-sota.org/
From: FT817@...
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 12:33 PM
To: FT817@...
Subject: [FT817] battery pack
hi guys, this is my first post and i know this is going to be a basic question for you guys but until you tell me the answer i dont know, i got the 817 to go out and about with not much weight but the battery life is not great as explained clearly on this site so i want to carry some more power for 8 hours now reading the posts here it seems that lipo power is the answer, now this is my silly question do you cut the output wire plug off ant solder on a jack plug and the put that in the 13v supply? or what, thanks in advance, steve m6ndq
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
You can always use the wire-cutter on your needle nose pliers as
a crimper.? I have done it quite successfully.? Just be gentle...
Answering the original question: I use an external Bioenno brand
battery that I keep charged AND disconnected from the radio.? The
FT-817 and especially the FT-818 have internal leakage that will
drain any connected battery.? This means that if you keep your
battery connected, it won't be charged when you need it.? And it
could possibly be permanently damaged.? I prefer not to use the
internal battery compartment as disconnecting the internal battery
is hard and I forget to do it after charging.
jon N0WL
On 4/16/2019 00:50, Joseph Wonoski
N1KHB@... [FT817] wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
Harbor Freight has a general purpose crimper
< $10 that works just dandy on pp connectors. Im all
for good tools, but i also dislike expensive tools that
only do one thing. Just sayin.
Sonny n1khb
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I like the Bioenno batteries, I think their prices are on the high-end of reasonable, but my 20 amp battery works great.
To size the battery, you need to know how you are going to use the radio and how long you want to use it. For example, let's say the radio uses 3 amps transmitting, 1 amp receiving. A use case of 50% transmitting, 50% receiving would put you at 2 amp/hr usage.*
Now that you know consumption, you need to multiply that average times the number of hours you want to operate between charges. Let's say 7-8 hours - that's a lot of operating between charges. So that points to a 15 amp battery to give you 7-8 hours usage between charges. You could step down to a 12 amp battery if you add a modest solar charger to the mix as Joseph described.
I hope that helps,
Ken, N2VIP
* my power consumption numbers are NOT FT-817/818 numbers, they are made up for simple math.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Apr 16, 2019, at 12:50 AM, Joseph Wonoski N1KHB@... [FT817] <FT817@...> wrote:
Personally, for operations where I am not backpacking, I have a 25 w solar panel and a 12v 12A SLAB to power my FT-817, for Field Day like ops.
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Yeah - I am pretty good at figuring solar/battery. I have 2 kW of solar for
the emergency power here. And at work I control 110 MW (not a typo, 110
MEGA-watts) of solar.
Just as a note, my personal FT-817 runs about 800 mAh in average use.
Vy73 - Mike - KD5KC.
El Paso, Texas - DM61rt.
SOTA W5T-Texas Association Manager.
NA-SOTA info is at:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: FT817@... <FT817@...> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 10:02 AM To: FT817@... Subject: Re: [FT817] battery pack I like the Bioenno batteries, I think their prices are on the high-end of reasonable, but my 20 amp battery works great. To size the battery, you need to know how you are going to use the radio and how long you want to use it. For example, let's say the radio uses 3 amps transmitting, 1 amp receiving. A use case of 50% transmitting, 50% receiving would put you at 2 amp/hr usage.* Now that you know consumption, you need to multiply that average times the number of hours you want to operate between charges. Let's say 7-8 hours - that's a lot of operating between charges. So that points to a 15 amp battery to give you 7-8 hours usage between charges. You could step down to a 12 amp battery if you add a modest solar charger to the mix as Joseph described. I hope that helps, Ken, N2VIP * my power consumption numbers are NOT FT-817/818 numbers, they are made up for simple math. On Apr 16, 2019, at 12:50 AM, Joseph Wonoski N1KHB@... [FT817] <FT817@...> wrote:
Personally, for operations where I am not backpacking, I have a 25 w solar
panel and a 12v 12A SLAB to power my FT-817, for Field Day like ops. ------------------------------------ Posted by: Ken Hansen <ken@...> ------------------------------------ And for a great FAQ ( Frequently Asked Questions ) see Some really good technical info at: . Please note that your messages and files sent to this group may appear anywhere on the Internet or in print without notice or compensation. ------------------------------------ Yahoo Groups Links
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thanks to every one for their help, i am going down the power pole route with an external battery, which battery type i'm not sure still reading about that as well as taking in what you guys have said, thanks, steve, m6ndq
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Best of luck brother. There is nothing like the FT-817 for pure ALL-BAND and ALL-MODE operation. NOTHING!
Vy73 - Mike - KD5KC.
El Paso, Texas - DM61rt.
SOTA W5T-Texas Association Manager.
NA-SOTA info is at: <>
From: FT817@... <FT817@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2019 12:44 PM
To: FT817@...
Subject: [FT817] Re: battery pack
thanks to every one for their help, i am going down the power pole route with an external battery, which battery type i'm not sure still reading about that as well as taking in what you guys have said, thanks, steve, m6ndq
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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I was wondering what kind of solar charger everyone uses for Bioenno batteries. I am considering a 12A battery and would like to charge it using solar power during field operations.
Thanks,? Tom
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Tom, I have the BioEnno 28 & 120 w solar panels. ?They are heavier than some but are a pretty high efficiency compared to the stuff like Harbor freight.?
I like the Budipole Power mini for use with either set. If I’m running solar, AC charger and using these to keep the battery topped up for the big radio, I add the West Mountsin Epic PWR gate.?
For simple field use, the 12 ?-15 ah battery and pwr mini work great. The new PM has a usb charge port as well.?
There are some light weight thin film flexible 25-28w military grade panels, but they are 5-10x more and 2x the size opened up.?
Good luck.?
73 W4DBL
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Apr 17, 2019, at 09:44, Tom Vaughan twvaughan@... [FT817] < FT817@...> wrote:
?
I was wondering what kind of solar charger everyone uses for Bioenno batteries. I am considering a 12A battery and would like to charge it using solar power during field operations.
Thanks,? Tom
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It primarily depends on how fast you want to charge the battery. The climate wherever you operate can also be a factor in that you need enough sunlight to capture energy. A lot of cloudy days translates to a slower charge rate. Your operating time is of course a consideration, as is the transmit to receive time ratio.
Then theres the budget along with what physical dimensions youre willing to work with.
??? My system is on the modest side with a 30 watt panel, 7 ah sla,? and a Tractor Supply controller. I might benefit some with a 12 ah battery such as yours, and in that case id want at least a 50 watt panel. My 30 watt panel puts out 1.8 amps in full sun. A 50 watt panel should thus be capable of ~ 3 amps unless theres been a significant change in manufacturing process, in which case it might put out more. Upsizing anything in your system cant hurt, electrically speaking alone. It all has a price tag in terms of your pocket depth and how portable you want to be however.
?? Let us know what you wind up with and how its doing. JMHO, YMMV, FWIW, etc.
Best,
Sonny n1khb
On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 Tom Vaughan twvaughan <FT817@...> wrote:
?
I was wondering what kind of solar charger everyone uses for Bioenno batteries. I am considering a 12A battery and would like to charge it using solar power during field operations.
Thanks,? Tom
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Running a FT817 using 28W of solar, Charge controller to match the battery, and a 12AH lithium is a good match up.
I run mine with an 11 Ah pack, and 20W panel and a charge controller to match the battery.? This? runs well enough that low battery is not an issue as the solar panel has enough output to charge? the battery during receive and substantially offset TX drain. I tried 40W but it was much more than? needed for charge rate and weight.? ?The sweet spot is likely around 28-32W assuming FT817, a? higher?drain radio would alter that.
I run larger radio 100W (Tentec Eagle or Tentex 6n2+ 100W amps) using 70W of panels and? a pair of 33AH AGM batteries?for Field Day.? In that case 100 W or more is desired.
In both cases excess solar will make up for cloudy days and insure fast recharge.? The price is? of course cost and weight.? ?Biggest thing is not to exceed battery charge rate or max voltage? as its bad for?any battery.
Allison
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Doug Lynch NNJ4EM