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USER REPORT: DX, ANTENNAS (MP-1), ETC!!! Long Post...
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I have been using my FT817 for several weeks and wanted to post some
feedback to the group, especially with regard to my field trials of the MP-1 antenna, etc. My goal with the 817 is two fold: a QRP WAS and a QRP WAC, so my comments and evaluation will come from that perspective. This past weekend from my QTH in the SF Bay area I was able to work the following states and DX: S.C*, AZ*, TX*, CO*, ME, OH, WA*, AR, VK2*, VK3*, VK4*, ZL1, VE6, and VE7* (* multiple QSO's). I was using either my MP-1 set up in my backyard or a multi band shortened 40-10M dipole mounted at 10' AGL. ALL CONTACTS VIA SSB. I worked 40 / 20 and 15M. Working a VK from my QTH is total of 7,845 miles, or 1500+ miles per watt. (***I just missed a ZF--he couldn't get my call correct so he didn't go down in the log...next time.) I worked the ZL1 and the Maine QSO on the same night! In all cases the 10' high dipole greatly out performed the MP-1 regardless of band. I even tried the cardboard box trick that Vern suggested to reduce hard coupling with the ground. I was using a Z-11 tuner, however I was able to get a "no bar" SWR intication from the 817 by carefully hand tuning the loading coil with out the Z-11 on all bands I worked. Signal reports were generally +S3 better with the dipole even at only 10'. Feedback about the 817 was very consistent: Great audio. R/S reports ranged from 5 /1 to 5 /9++. My recommendation for phone mode is to be very aware of the mic. gain levels..I needed to run at a setting of "70" to get good deflection on the PWR meter on the 817. I received no reports of flat topping or over mod. on my audio with this setting, however. I made all my DX QSO's responding to CQ's or "tail ending" and logged a total of 6 VK's that I contacted in one call to their CQ in about 90 min. Bagging DX on one call running QRP is absolutely thrilling. Without exception Hams have been very supportive of my QRP efforts and more than once I received a call from others eager to really see if I was just running 5 watts. BTW..The VK guys love to work a QRP QSO. I plan to conduct a similar side by side test this weekend in preperation for gettting my field day set up finalized. Right now the dipole is looking real good. I have also been doing extensive testing of Mark Smith's RATS CAT GUI. I like this application a lot, more on RATS on another post. ( have no financial affiliation with Kingsmith software, etc., etc...). Like to hear about similar DX / WAS success from others. Thanks in advance. :harry |
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Harry,
Could you gives us some more details on your dipole? Thanx, Arlan W8OW --- In FT817@y..., harry.edwards@s... wrote: This past weekend from my QTH in the SF Bay area I was able to workusing either my MP-1 set up in my backyard or a multi band shortened 40-10M dipole mounted at 10' AGL. |
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--- In FT817@y..., howlingwolf@r... wrote:
Harry,work Arlan..I'm just using the Alpha Delta DX-EE 40-10M dipole. I pickedthe following states and DX: S.C*, AZ*, TX*, CO*, ME, OH, WA*, AR,using it up at HRO. It has an OAL of about 42'. I just stuck it up in an Ash tree in my back yard. One end is only about 7' AGL(!). I'll be putting it up at 30' feet this weekend for the next test. Stay tuned. :harry |
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Oddly enough, yes. (Field day is coming). Using about 35 feet of TV twin
lead it tuned everything with little MFJ tuner but 80 meters, set up as inverted vee in tree. Not too surprised, given the versatility and performance of open wire fed zepps at the fixed station. The only problem is needing one high support. For those of you'all without a high support and still fiddling with light efficient verticals, look for a AT-271A/PRC mil surplus antenna. It has 7 17" sections that slide into each other, and the entire assembly is held together by an internal shock cord. Comes with 3/8 24 stud and is extremely light weight. I've tuned it with an MFJ tuner on all bands, but find it works better with a short homemade base section and loading coil, made from PVC, with 3/8 -24 nuts hammered into double female connectors for receiving the whip and a 3/8-24 bolt drilled thru a pvc cap on the other end. coil is miniductor with alligator clip from junk box. A bit unwieldy but doesn't require tuner, but if you're stationary, and especially if you can use one of the vise grips fitted with a 3/8-24 female to coax adapter and a few radials, it gets out really well. 73, Scott |
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If I had a tree, I'd be inclined to try a 20m resonant dipole fed
with TV 300 ohm ribbon. With an ATU it might be possible to use it on 40 thru 15m. Simple, cheap to make, and light. Anyone tried it? Julian, G4ILO --- In FT817@y..., harry.edwards@s... wrote: Arlan..I'm just using the Alpha Delta DX-EE 40-10M dipole. Ipicked it up at HRO. It has an OAL of about 42'. I just stuck it up in an |
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David Perry
i have a coax fe 40m dipole. if i change to ribbon, will that do?
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david ----- Original Message -----
From: <julian@...> To: <FT817@...> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 9:05 AM Subject: [FT817] Re: USER REPORT: DX, ANTENNAS (MP-1), ETC!!! Long Post... If I had a tree, I'd be inclined to try a 20m resonant dipole fedQuestions ) see
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Kevin Danks
This is exactly the antenna I use. It is cut for 20 metres and tunes
from 40 to 6, although I have yet to hear anything with it on 6. It is hung as an inverted-V from a short mast on the chimney and over the last couple of weeks I have worked all continents except Africa with it and my 817. I have been trying to find some information on the radiation pattern from inverted-V dipoles. The text books I have only give very basic details, so can anyone here offer another source? Kevin, G0DBI --- In FT817@y..., julian@t... wrote: If I had a tree, I'd be inclined to try a 20m resonant dipole fedon 40 thru 15m. Simple, cheap to make, and light. Anyone tried it? |
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Don
Changing from coax to ribbon lead (300 ohms, 600 ohms etc) will do a lot of
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things, far more than space here provides for. Briefly, the feed point impedance will change dramatically requiring an antenna tuner, if tuned incorrectly, the feed line could radiate, the resonant frequency of the antenna can change depending on many factors, one of which is how you treat the ribbon lead, i.e; as a balanced feed line or as a single wire unbalanced. Bottom line is that the ribbon offers so much more versatility bit you need to understand what your doing or it's all for not. ----- Original Message -----
From: "David Perry" <david.perry3@...> To: <FT817@...> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [FT817] Re: USER REPORT: DX, ANTENNAS (MP-1), ETC!!! Long Post... i have a coax fe 40m dipole. if i change to ribbon, will that do? Questions ) see
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David Perry
Yes, I understand that much, it was just that people said use a 20m dipole
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with ribbon. I have a 40m dipole and just wondered. I might try it though because, as you rightly say, much more versatile. Anyway, if you don't try you dont learn. david G4YVM ----- Original Message -----
From: "Don" <k7ugq@...> To: <FT817@...> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [FT817] Re: USER REPORT: DX, ANTENNAS (MP-1), ETC!!! Long Post... Changing from coax to ribbon lead (300 ohms, 600 ohms etc) will do a lotof things, far more than space here provides for. Briefly, the feed pointtreat the ribbon lead, i.e; as a balanced feed line or as a single wireneed to understand what your doing or it's all for not.Post... If I had a tree, I'd be inclined to try a 20m resonant dipole fedQuestions ) see Questions ) see
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Michael Babineau
Julian :
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What actually works very well is a 44 ft doublet fed with open wire or 300 ohm ribbon. This particular length works well as a multi-band antenna because from 10-40m the lobes are all oriented in the same direction. I use one of these made out of 22 AWG wire along with a DK9SQ mast and an LDG QRP autotuner as my vacation setup and it works like a charm. It is also possible to operate 80 meters by shorting the ends of the ribbon cable and working it against a counterpoise. You may need to play with the length of the feedline to get a good match on all bands (80ft reportedly works well). The Norcal Doublet was essentially the same thing except the whole antenna feedline and all is made from computer ribbon cable (very light). L.B. Cebik, W4RNL has some more information on this antenna on his website at www.cebik.com. cheers Michael VE3WMB From: FT817@... |
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Stephen M. King
From: "Kevin Danks" <kevin_g0dbi@...>
This is exactly the antenna I use. It is cut for 20 metres and tunesI use a 20m dipole with 400 ohm window-pane feed. With my MFJ 941E tuner I can tune it everywhere from 40 - 6. It even tunes on 80m and I have made some contacts there with just 5w with the FT-817. Mine (out of necessity) is mounted as a sloper .. the high end is about 30 feet up and it is only about 8 ft high on the low end. I have not noticed much in the way of directivity. I also have tested the Maldol antennas, which work with a counterpoise or whatever we are calling it this week ;-) The bottom line seems to be that if you can get a dipole up it will probably outperform any of these small verticals. But if you can't get a wire up then these short verticals will make QSO's -- just be aware of the shortcomings and realistic in your expectations. 73, Stephen W3SMK |
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If it's low loss and short, it should be OK. The only reason for
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suggesting ribbon is that it should have a lower loss than co-ax if there is a high SWR, which is why in fixed stations users of non- resonant antennas use open wire feeder. Julian, G4ILO --- In FT817@y..., "David Perry" <david.perry3@v...> wrote:
i have a coax fe 40m dipole. if i change to ribbon, will that do? |
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You should be able to model it using the free demo version of EZNEC
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for Windows (www.eznec.com). I downloaded this to try to model the loop I am going to put in the loft at my new QTH and it's quite fun to play with. Julian, G4ILO --- In FT817@y..., "Kevin Danks" <kevin_g0dbi@y...> wrote:
[snip] I have been trying to find some information on the radiationpattern from inverted-V dipoles. The text books I have only give very basic |
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You might find it hard to load on 20m because the legs will be a half
wave long, which gives a very high impedance. Equally, a 20m dipole would probably be hard to load on 10. Julian, G4ILO --- In FT817@y..., "David Perry" <david.perry3@v...> wrote: Yes, I understand that much, it was just that people said use a 20mdipole with ribbon. I have a 40m dipole and just wondered. I might tryit though because, as you rightly say, much more versatile. |
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Yes, this sounds interesting. I am increasingly coming to the opinion
that instead of spending $100's on compact whip antennas, we would all be better off looking for an equally small lightweight telescopic mast and spend $5 on a couple of bits of wire. Only those who insist on being able to walk around while transmitting would find that solution impractical. Those who can operate from forests won't even need the mast... Julian, G4ILO --- In FT817@y..., Michael Babineau <michael.babineau@s...> wrote: Julian :or 300 ohm ribbon. This particular length works well as a multi-bandantenna because from 10-40m the lobes are all oriented in the samedirection. I use one of these made out of 22 AWG wire along with a DK9SQ mastand an LDG QRP autotuner as my vacation setup and it works like a charm.It is also possible to operate 80 meters by shorting the ends of the ribboncable and working it against a counterpoise. You may need to play with thelength of the feedline to get a good match on all bands (80ft reportedlyworks well). antenna feedline and all is made from computer ribbon cable (very light).website at www.cebik.com. |
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David Perry
Glad you said this. I concluded this a week orr so ago and feel really fed
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up that I spend fifty quid on my ATX. Suppose you have to try though, to find out the truth as it were. A dipole and a stick is what we need. Even alkabout we should use the ProAm stuff. Don't like the ATX at all. For Sale...one ATX 30 quid plus postage. David G4YVM ----- Original Message -----
From: <julian@...> To: <FT817@...> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 3:56 PM Subject: [FT817] Re: USER REPORT: DX, ANTENNAS (MP-1), ETC!!! Long Post... Yes, this sounds interesting. I am increasingly coming to the opinionQuestions ) see
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Well, I spent USD 225 on the MP-1, 80m coil, tripod and telescopic
whip, plus about 40 quid on VAT and duty when it arrived, and I can't use the thing at all. So I'm even more fed up. Even without a counterpoise, the ATX works well enough for casual listening around on the bands, which the FT-817 is handy for. It fits handily on to the radio without needing a stand. It loads up with a decent SWR on 10m - 17m using a 5m steel measuring tape I bought for 4 quid in the local hardware store. I can get a respectable SWR on 40m using the end-loaded wire counterpoise I made up, though I can't say I've made any contacts on that band. I'm still having problems with 20m though. So I'm happier with the ATX than I am with the MP-1. Since the antenna supplied by Yaesu isn't even any use for HF listening, it's probably worth having for that reason alone. But a dipole up even a few feet would probably work better. On the Elecraft list there was a report today from a guy who made his first contact with the K1 he built using a dipole laying on the ground. Who knows whether an ATX or MP-1 works better than a dipole at ground level? :-) Julian, G4ILO --- In FT817@y..., "David Perry" <david.perry3@v...> wrote: Glad you said this. I concluded this a week orr so ago and feelreally fed up that I spend fifty quid on my ATX. Suppose you have to trythough, to find out the truth as it were. A dipole and a stick is what weneed. Even alkabout we should use the ProAm stuff. |
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--- In FT817@y..., julian@t... wrote:
Well, I spent USD 225 on the MP-1, 80m coil, tripod and telescopiccan't use the thing at all. So I'm even more fed up.fits handily on to the radio without needing a stand. It loads up with aWho knows whether an ATX or MP-1 works better than a dipole at ground Gentlemen..I went through my log from last weekend. I noted that all the stations I worked were using either a dipole or a beam. I worked a station in the state of Virginia (about 3,000 miles) and he was also using an 817 and a dipole. I'm going to continue to experiment with my MP1, but my dipole goes up at 30' this weekend. At this point I am loosing interest in taking the time to experiment with the counterpoise issue and the MP-1. WAC and WAS QRP or die trying!! :harry |
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