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I have a roughly 6 year old Windcamp battery,?
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All has been fine with it until this week when it literally expanded like a balloon.? The physical structure is not swollen, but the plastic cover is 'puffed up' like a balloon and can be pressed back into shape. I assume something within is emitting a gas and I have removed it from service for disposal.
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This leads me to ask what is now available for internal fitting on the FT817? (preferably to the UK area).
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Thanks, Andy? GD1MIP
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I have some HT batteries that have expanded when they get old after many charges.? Best to remove and replace before something leaks...??
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Within the last month I my original battery with a WinCamp set up which I bought it on E-Bay and it came from China.??
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Jack, W1JS
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Watch out Andy, they can catch fire?
Mike WA1MAD
On Oct 6, 2024 6:46 AM, "Andy GD1MIP via groups.io" <gd1mip@...> wrote: I have a roughly 6 year old Windcamp battery,?
?
All has been fine with it until this week when it literally expanded like a balloon.? The physical structure is not swollen, but the plastic cover is 'puffed up' like a balloon and can be pressed back into shape. I assume something within is emitting a gas and I have removed it from service for disposal.
?
This leads me to ask what is now available for internal fitting on the FT817? (preferably to the UK area).
?
Thanks, Andy? GD1MIP
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Are there any internal Lifepo4 battery options for the 817? That would be a nice option. Undecided on a Windcamp upgrade.?
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There must be a list of lipo cell sizes somewhere to see what might fit in the 817 battery compartment. Otherwise you have to go external. The battery compartment is otherwise pretty useless. It may have been relevant twenty years ago when the radio first came out, but not in recent years.
On Sun, Oct 6, 2024 at 12:29 PM, Mike Davis <maddmd818@...> wrote: Are there any internal Lifepo4 battery options for the 817? That would be a nice option. Undecided on a Windcamp upgrade.?
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You are doing the right thing Andy!!!!? For all others in the same boat, GET A NEW BATTERY AND SEND THE OLD ONE TO THE RECYCLERS!!!!? Many people think rechargeable batteries are to last "forever" but
they have a limited lifespan. When they can't hold a charge or do what you have seen, get a NEW ONE!!? Don't dink around.? A pack that swells probably has an internal short and is defective.? Needs to be replaced ASAP!
You had 6 years of service from the pack and in my estimation is a good long life.
Again, my diatribe is not directed against you Andy so don't be insulted.? It's so others might be impressed as to the importance on the subject.
Kurt KC9LDH
On Sunday, October 6, 2024 at 05:46:16 AM CDT, Andy GD1MIP via groups.io <gd1mip@...> wrote:
I have a roughly 6 year old Windcamp battery,?
?
All has been fine with it until this week when it literally expanded like a balloon.? The physical structure is not swollen, but the plastic cover is 'puffed up' like a balloon and can be pressed back into shape. I assume something within is emitting a gas and I have removed it from service for disposal.
?
This leads me to ask what is now available for internal fitting on the FT817? (preferably to the UK area).
?
Thanks, Andy? GD1MIP
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As everyone else has said, get rid of that pack. It’s no good anymore.? For a replacement just grab another windcamp, six years is a great service life for any rechargeable battery. I believe you can get the batteries individually if you look around, that way you aren’t paying a premium for the cover, charger etc.?
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On Oct 6, 2024, at 13:09, Kurt Savegnago via groups.io <ksaves2@...> wrote:
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You are doing the right thing Andy!!!!? For all others in the same boat, GET A NEW BATTERY AND SEND THE OLD ONE TO THE RECYCLERS!!!!? Many people think rechargeable batteries are to last "forever" but
they have a limited lifespan. When they can't hold a charge or do what you have seen, get a NEW ONE!!? Don't dink around.? A pack that swells probably has an internal short and is defective.? Needs to be replaced ASAP!
You had 6 years of service from the pack and in my estimation is a good long life.
Again, my diatribe is not directed against you Andy so don't be insulted.? It's so others might be impressed as to the importance on the subject.
Kurt KC9LDH
On Sunday, October 6, 2024 at 05:46:16 AM CDT, Andy GD1MIP via groups.io <gd1mip@...> wrote:
I have a roughly 6 year old Windcamp battery,?
?
All has been fine with it until this week when it literally expanded like a balloon.? The physical structure is not swollen, but the plastic cover is 'puffed up' like a balloon and can be pressed back into shape. I assume something within is emitting a gas and I have removed it from service for disposal.
?
This leads me to ask what is now available for internal fitting on the FT817? (preferably to the UK area).
?
Thanks, Andy? GD1MIP
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Thanks Joe, I was hoping for Lifepo4 not Lipo. But due to compartment size, that chemistry may not be available. I've asked Bioenno the same question. 73
Mike WA1MAD
There must be a list of lipo cell sizes somewhere to see what might fit in the 817 battery compartment. Otherwise you have to go external. The battery compartment is otherwise pretty useless. It may have been relevant twenty years ago when the radio first came out, but not in recent years.
Joe N1KHB? On Sun, Oct 6, 2024 at 12:29 PM, Mike Davis Are there any internal Lifepo4 battery options for the 817? That would be a nice option. Undecided on a Windcamp upgrade.?
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Mine died too at 5 years,which is the expected life of the battery chemistry.
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You could use the empty cell pack with Eneloop cells which last well, but they
are a bit light on amphour capacity, circa 2600ma.
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But most of the time I've run my rig on an external 7ah gell cell for good operating
time.
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Just remember to LIMIT any charge current to about 1/10th of the gel cell capacity.
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Anymore then you screw up the gel cell , been there done that etc etc.
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73 de Andy G0FTD
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Thanks all, I have reverted to the dry cell tray and some NiMH AA cells whilst I ponder my options.
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The old Windcamp pack is currently well away from anything combustible, awaiting correct disposal - once my local waste center decides? :-) .
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Andy GD1MIP
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Will you now be at only 2.5 watts vs full power 5ish watts?
Mike Davis WA1MAD
(h) 781 545-4381
(c) 617 909-5103
On 10/06/2024 5:17 PM EDT Andy GD1MIP via groups.io <gd1mip@...> wrote:
?
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Thanks all, I have reverted to the dry cell tray and some NiMH AA cells whilst I ponder my options.
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The old Windcamp pack is currently well away from anything combustible, awaiting correct disposal - once my local waste center decides? :-) .
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Andy GD1MIP
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True Mike,? but then lifes too short for QRO :-)
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Andy GD1MIP
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Batteries Plus stores will take old batteries if you have one close by.?
I just installed a new Wincamp battery in mine. 30 days shipping from China but I like the convenience and they last a long time.?
Greg, AE4GW
Thanks all, I have reverted to the dry cell tray and some NiMH AA cells whilst I ponder my options.
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The old Windcamp pack is currently well away from anything combustible, awaiting correct disposal - once my local waste center decides? :-) .
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Andy GD1MIP
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LiFePO4 is less dense than LiPoly, so not much better than 2500 mAH NiMH. The reasons for LiFePO4 vs lipoly/Liion are:
Cheaper on large packs.
Less fire risk on vehicles and solar.
3000 to 4000 deep cycles (so about x3 to x5 life of lead acid on solar
Less toxic / more recyclable (but lead acid is 100% recycled except case, which could be renewable) than LiPoly/LiIon.
So the advantage of LiFePO4 is for external packs of 9 Ah or more rather than short-lived heavy Lead-acid gel packs (was 7, now 9 Ah).
For occasional use the long life quality low discharge 2500 mAh NiMH is best internal and longer operation at full 5W with an external LiFePO4 pack (you want minimum 9.5V, max 16V, but a nominal 12V is about 11.5 to 14.5 for min-max). One with internal BMS to disconnect when too low and allows usually 2 to 4 in parallel is best. There are 3rd party LiFePO4 chargers.
Otherwise a replacement Wincamp, but external LiFePO4 (DC House brand seems OK and ecoworthy is same company). Search Amazon etc for LiFePO4 10Ah. Make sure any mains charger compatible with the Ah rating and for LiFePO4. Max fast charge current is typically 1/2 the total Ah rating. You can't use a lead-acid or LiPoly/LiIon charger unless it has a switch for LiFePO4.
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Thanks for all those pieces of information. I do have the smallest LiFePO4 that Bioenno makes, but it is only 1.5Ah and used on my (tr)usdx. That's a smaller power requirement, in receive, radio, even though it transmits SSB @ 5 watts. I see the Windcamp setup prices from $70 to over $100 and a warning from Windcamp about Chinese counterfeits and how to tell if it's a counterfeit. Decisions, decisions. 73
Mike WA1MAD
LiFePO4 is less dense than LiPoly, so not much better than 2500 mAH NiMH. The reasons for LiFePO4 vs lipoly/Liion are:
Cheaper on large packs.
Less fire risk on vehicles and solar.
3000 to 4000 deep cycles (so about x3 to x5 life of lead acid on solar
Less toxic / more recyclable (but lead acid is 100% recycled except case, which could be renewable) than LiPoly/LiIon.
So the advantage of LiFePO4 is for external packs of 9 Ah or more rather than short-lived heavy Lead-acid gel packs (was 7, now 9 Ah).
For occasional use the long life quality low discharge 2500 mAh NiMH is best internal and longer operation at full 5W with an external LiFePO4 pack (you want minimum 9.5V, max 16V, but a nominal 12V is about 11.5 to 14.5 for min-max). One with internal BMS to disconnect when too low and allows usually 2 to 4 in parallel is best. There are 3rd party LiFePO4 chargers.
Otherwise a replacement Wincamp, but external LiFePO4 (DC House brand seems OK and ecoworthy is same company). Search Amazon etc for LiFePO4 10Ah. Make sure any mains charger compatible with the Ah rating and for LiFePO4. Max fast charge current is typically 1/2 the total Ah rating. You can't use a lead-acid or LiPoly/LiIon charger unless it has a switch for LiFePO4.
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Just ordered the Windcamp (I hope) from Ali. Thanks for all the tech support. Mike Davis WA1MAD
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On Oct 7, 2024, at 7:52?AM, Mike Davis via groups.io <maddmd818@...> wrote:
? Thanks for all those pieces of information. I do have the smallest LiFePO4 that Bioenno makes, but it is only 1.5Ah and used on my (tr)usdx. That's a smaller power requirement, in receive, radio, even though it transmits SSB @ 5 watts. I see the Windcamp setup prices from $70 to over $100 and a warning from Windcamp about Chinese counterfeits and how to tell if it's a counterfeit. Decisions, decisions. 73
Mike WA1MAD LiFePO4 is less dense than LiPoly, so not much better than 2500 mAH NiMH. The reasons for LiFePO4 vs lipoly/Liion are:
Cheaper on large packs.
Less fire risk on vehicles and solar.
3000 to 4000 deep cycles (so about x3 to x5 life of lead acid on solar
Less toxic / more recyclable (but lead acid is 100% recycled except case, which could be renewable) than LiPoly/LiIon.
So the advantage of LiFePO4 is for external packs of 9 Ah or more rather than short-lived heavy Lead-acid gel packs (was 7, now 9 Ah).
For occasional use the long life quality low discharge 2500 mAh NiMH is best internal and longer operation at full 5W with an external LiFePO4 pack (you want minimum 9.5V, max 16V, but a nominal 12V is about 11.5 to 14.5 for min-max). One with internal BMS to disconnect when too low and allows usually 2 to 4 in parallel is best. There are 3rd party LiFePO4 chargers.
Otherwise a replacement Wincamp, but external LiFePO4 (DC House brand seems OK and ecoworthy is same company). Search Amazon etc for LiFePO4 10Ah. Make sure any mains charger compatible with the Ah rating and for LiFePO4. Max fast charge current is typically 1/2 the total Ah rating. You can't use a lead-acid or LiPoly/LiIon charger unless it has a switch for LiFePO4.
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Mike, why do model plane clubs keep their soft pac LiPo batteries in metal ammo boxes? I'm told it's to be safe, in case one catches on fire, and was led to believe that LiPo fires happen every so often. I'd sure hate to have that happen. With the Windcamp setup, can overcharging happen and cause a fire?
Mike WA1MAD
On Oct 7, 2024 6:27 AM, Mike EI9FEB <ei9feb@...> wrote: LiFePO4 is less dense than LiPoly, so not much better than 2500 mAH NiMH. The reasons for LiFePO4 vs lipoly/Liion are:
Cheaper on large packs.
Less fire risk on vehicles and solar.
3000 to 4000 deep cycles (so about x3 to x5 life of lead acid on solar
Less toxic / more recyclable (but lead acid is 100% recycled except case, which could be renewable) than LiPoly/LiIon.
So the advantage of LiFePO4 is for external packs of 9 Ah or more rather than short-lived heavy Lead-acid gel packs (was 7, now 9 Ah).
For occasional use the long life quality low discharge 2500 mAh NiMH is best internal and longer operation at full 5W with an external LiFePO4 pack (you want minimum 9.5V, max 16V, but a nominal 12V is about 11.5 to 14.5 for min-max). One with internal BMS to disconnect when too low and allows usually 2 to 4 in parallel is best. There are 3rd party LiFePO4 chargers.
Otherwise a replacement Wincamp, but external LiFePO4 (DC House brand seems OK and ecoworthy is same company). Search Amazon etc for LiFePO4 10Ah. Make sure any mains charger compatible with the Ah rating and for LiFePO4. Max fast charge current is typically 1/2 the total Ah rating. You can't use a lead-acid or LiPoly/LiIon charger unless it has a switch for LiFePO4.
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I believe the Windcamp pack has a regulator on it, as it's my understanding that the Windcamp charger is just a wall wart.
Most RC batteries do not habe regulators on them, as they are designed for very high current discharge, and I think they also get charged at high current to get things back in action.
So, I think the risk with RC batteries is during charge. Most phones and laptops have pillow pack lipos in them, most don't catch fire.
Mike, why do model plane clubs keep their soft pac LiPo batteries in metal ammo boxes? I'm told it's to be safe, in case one catches on fire, and was led to believe that LiPo fires happen every so often. I'd sure hate to have that happen. With the Windcamp setup, can overcharging happen and cause a fire?
Mike WA1MAD
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Regarding lithium battery fires, they do happen and anything is possible but I have yet to hear of a single occurrence of the windcamp battery catching fire.?
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On Oct 7, 2024, at 12:01, Tobias KK7BCO/2M0TFF via groups.io <feltusfecit1@...> wrote:
? I believe the Windcamp pack has a regulator on it, as it's my understanding that the Windcamp charger is just a wall wart.
Most RC batteries do not habe regulators on them, as they are designed for very high current discharge, and I think they also get charged at high current to get things back in action.
So, I think the risk with RC batteries is during charge. Most phones and laptops have pillow pack lipos in them, most don't catch fire.
Mike, why do model plane clubs keep their soft pac LiPo batteries in metal ammo boxes? I'm told it's to be safe, in case one catches on fire, and was led to believe that LiPo fires happen every so often. I'd sure hate to have that happen. With the Windcamp setup, can overcharging happen and cause a fire?
Mike WA1MAD
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Well Kevin, that’s good news. Thanks Mike Davis WA1MAD
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On Oct 7, 2024, at 2:28?PM, Kevin - K5KTM <Ktmullens@...> wrote:
? Regarding lithium battery fires, they do happen and anything is possible but I have yet to hear of a single occurrence of the windcamp battery catching fire.? On Oct 7, 2024, at 12:01, Tobias KK7BCO/2M0TFF via groups.io <feltusfecit1@...> wrote:
? I believe the Windcamp pack has a regulator on it, as it's my understanding that the Windcamp charger is just a wall wart.
Most RC batteries do not habe regulators on them, as they are designed for very high current discharge, and I think they also get charged at high current to get things back in action.
So, I think the risk with RC batteries is during charge. Most phones and laptops have pillow pack lipos in them, most don't catch fire.
Mike, why do model plane clubs keep their soft pac LiPo batteries in metal ammo boxes? I'm told it's to be safe, in case one catches on fire, and was led to believe that LiPo fires happen every so often. I'd sure hate to have that happen. With the Windcamp setup, can overcharging happen and cause a fire?
Mike WA1MAD
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Andy GD1MIP
Michael Davis
Kevin - K5KTM
Mike EI9FEB
Tobias KK7BCO/2M0TFF