On Jul 30, 2020, at 12:23 PM, Mk Vt <mkessler10@...> wrote:

?Thanks for the clarification, don’t know how I misunderstood this...

?“Scoring pretty well eliminates their use on the slider because of the table slider height difference”

Regards, Mark

On Jul 30, 2020, at 12:20 PM, jmkserv@... wrote:

?

I didn't say that it doesn't work I said it not needed with scoring. I had a nice one like you are showing until it got blown to rat shit with a tapered cutoff. Now I use this when necessary. But as always whatever works for you, my experience dictates otherwise. The other inserts are 10 years old and only used for support when doing dados. No blowouts on the thin material but dados really don't create that issue.?

John

JMK Services

-------- Original message --------

From: Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...>

Date: 2020-07-30 11:58 a.m. (GMT-05:00)

To: [email protected]

Subject: Re: [FOG] Zero Clearance Inserts for Hammer K-3

John, Don’t understand your comment that a zci won’t work with scoring, maybe I am misunderstanding your comment but I have no issues with my 20min Prototype build of one, I also have no howling like you describe. I could see the potential for the jamming like you describe but haven’t had that yet and kickback from small cutoffs is gone

Regards, Mark

On Jul 30, 2020, at 11:22 AM, jmkserv@... wrote:

?

Felder must have changed their inserts from the fine ply phenolic. I've got 3 and never had an issue with them. Scoring pretty well eliminates their use on the slider because of the table slider height difference and I don't work from the fence side so of?no use to me. No matter how tight to the blade is too the?insert there is always cutoffs that will jamb and create issues. I've got 2 nicks in my slider because of extreme blade deflection cause?by ZCI. The howling?from the balde they can create is another issue. Sorry for the negative comments about ZCI but reality is such.

On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:10 AM Ramon Valdez <valdezfinefurniture@...> wrote:

Hey Steve
I'm glad you figured out how to cut and extend the saw kerf...your way is a good solution.? The reason I didn't cut saw kerfs to begin with is because...after talking with a Felder/Hammer rep, he suggested NOT to cut the kerfs.? He stated that they can be in slightly different locations latterly (or left & right).? Factory ZCI's are never sold with a saw blade kerf. ? So, that's when I decided to make the "how to" video that shows how I safely created the kerf on mine and started supplying the two wood screws.?

It's interesting that your slider part has to be rearward to install the insert.? Mine must be forward...so this tells me that there are some slight differences with the machines.? As far as the fitment of the insert, I only had one other report (besides yours) related to that slight adjustment that needed to be made for proper fitment.? I've since adjusted my jigs to make the accommodations.? Strange thing is...the inserts fit my K-3 with or without that modification. ?

?And yes, the tiny 4mm sliver that is created to the left of the factory ZCI and their regular insert is weak.? Mine broke after only two days!? I knew there had to be a better way.? I'm super pleased with my version.? Especially when cutting small parts. ?

Anyway, thanks a ton for your support!? Ramon

--

John Kee

JMK Services

Thanks for the clarification, don’t know how I misunderstood this...

?“Scoring pretty well eliminates their use on the slider because of the table slider height difference”

Regards, Mark

On Jul 30, 2020, at 12:20 PM, jmkserv@... wrote:

?

I didn't say that it doesn't work I said it not needed with scoring. I had a nice one like you are showing until it got blown to rat shit with a tapered cutoff. Now I use this when necessary. But as always whatever works for you, my experience dictates otherwise. The other inserts are 10 years old and only used for support when doing dados. No blowouts on the thin material but dados really don't create that issue.?

John

JMK Services

-------- Original message --------

From: Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...>

Date: 2020-07-30 11:58 a.m. (GMT-05:00)

To: [email protected]

Subject: Re: [FOG] Zero Clearance Inserts for Hammer K-3

John, Don’t understand your comment that a zci won’t work with scoring, maybe I am misunderstanding your comment but I have no issues with my 20min Prototype build of one, I also have no howling like you describe. I could see the potential for the jamming like you describe but haven’t had that yet and kickback from small cutoffs is gone

Regards, Mark

On Jul 30, 2020, at 11:22 AM, jmkserv@... wrote:

?

Felder must have changed their inserts from the fine ply phenolic. I've got 3 and never had an issue with them. Scoring pretty well eliminates their use on the slider because of the table slider height difference and I don't work from the fence side so of?no use to me. No matter how tight to the blade is too the?insert there is always cutoffs that will jamb and create issues. I've got 2 nicks in my slider because of extreme blade deflection cause?by ZCI. The howling?from the balde they can create is another issue. Sorry for the negative comments about ZCI but reality is such.

On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:10 AM Ramon Valdez <valdezfinefurniture@...> wrote:

Hey Steve
I'm glad you figured out how to cut and extend the saw kerf...your way is a good solution.? The reason I didn't cut saw kerfs to begin with is because...after talking with a Felder/Hammer rep, he suggested NOT to cut the kerfs.? He stated that they can be in slightly different locations latterly (or left & right).? Factory ZCI's are never sold with a saw blade kerf. ? So, that's when I decided to make the "how to" video that shows how I safely created the kerf on mine and started supplying the two wood screws.?

It's interesting that your slider part has to be rearward to install the insert.? Mine must be forward...so this tells me that there are some slight differences with the machines.? As far as the fitment of the insert, I only had one other report (besides yours) related to that slight adjustment that needed to be made for proper fitment.? I've since adjusted my jigs to make the accommodations.? Strange thing is...the inserts fit my K-3 with or without that modification. ?

?And yes, the tiny 4mm sliver that is created to the left of the factory ZCI and their regular insert is weak.? Mine broke after only two days!? I knew there had to be a better way.? I'm super pleased with my version.? Especially when cutting small parts. ?

Anyway, thanks a ton for your support!? Ramon

--

John Kee

JMK Services

On Jul 31, 2020, at 1:03 PM, Bob Card <bob@...> wrote:

?Hi Ramon -

Thank you for your post. It's very timely for me.? I've been looking for a replacement throat plate for a Hammer C3 41 I bought last year.? I didn't like the one that came with it.?

I've had so many thin slivers get caught between the blade & the throatplate, or drop down into the flexiduct - and then clog it.? Not good, not safe, not cool.??

Yours look great, and I just went to your website and ordered two of them. I can't wait to get them into my shop!? Also, those are really helpful videos. Thank you!

Bob Card