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No. I am too. old to lift the power feeder and set up with the cast iron fence is tough as well. It seemed a good idea at the time.??
CHS
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
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Lifting and lowering the heavy power feeder (F48) is not fun and a safety hazard until I installed the gas strut on my KF700sp.
James
On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 12:37 PM Shinta Wakahisa via <vnh84= [email protected]> wrote: Yes, I have a KF700SP and think that it is a good value.? Also, I don't have a large shop, so space constrain partially forced the decision.? If I have the space, I'd definite get a dedicated shaper, probably in addition to the KF700SP.? I don't mind setting up the shaper function of the KF700SP, but it is a bit annoying to need to use it in the middle of a build and have to repeat a set up.? I predict that lifting the power feeder up and down will become more prohibitive as I get older.??
SW
|
Well,
I spent some time this week with Carl @Felder in Anaheim.? Decided on a configuration I think.? Waiting on a quote.? KF700SP if it is possible to get it in single phase with a 9' slider.
I am really torn about power drive.? Carl had lots of thoughts around going manual.? The tap feature does seem annoying, but I haven't lived with it to know.
What does everyone think?? For a hobby WW?? Is it something to break?? How much more is the cost (power drive vs 4 dial indicators)???
Help...
PK
|
I have the power drive on the ad941 j/p and the dumbed down version of it on the k700s.
On the ad941 i had a little bit of a hard time with the “tap” at first but doesn’t take the long to get the hang of of it, i will say that seems a bit more troubling in decimal than mm, i only use mm...
The saw, the dumbed down version as I call it is the version that has no digital readout and is for the blade up and down only - the tilt is the dial indicator, I would not recommend that configuration, when you try to dial in the exact height of the blade it’s hard to get it where you want without trial and error, you would be better off with manual and a dial indicator.
From what I understand the powerdrive is pretty robust and accurate, i did inquire about the cost of replacing the board if it failed and was told it is something like $200 - $300. You should expect a good 10 years on a quality built circuit board these days and really much longer, i work in industrial controls now and we have similar build quality boards in super harsh conditions (talking unconditioned, exposed to elements in India, Africa to name a few but pretty much every location on earth and 24/7 operations) that last 10 years. A lot of boards if not all these days can also be repaired if you know what to look for, use to be that these boards were one offs now mostly a commodity item. I am not at all concerned with powerdrive level electronics...
Digi drive is a different story so someone else with experience would have to comment on that.?
I would think with the saw shaper you would want the power drive for ease of shaper setup but I am not a combo guy for saw shaper....
The k940s that is replacing my k700s will be power drive with all dro, i am an ex professional furniture/millwork maker but now hobby some commission and i think the powerdrive is basically $1500 and full dro $1500 and totally worth it over the long hall. I figure at best I have 25-30yrs left of woodworking so not alot in the scheme of things...
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On Nov 22, 2020, at 12:12 AM, PK <paul.kellymjc@...> wrote:
? [Edited Message Follows]
Well, I spent some time this week with Carl @Felder in Anaheim.? Decided on a configuration I think.? Waiting on a quote.? KF700SP if it is possible to get it in single phase with a 9' slider. I am really torn about power drive.? Carl had lots of thoughts around going manual.? The tap feature does seem annoying, but I haven't lived with it to know. What does everyone think?? For a hobby WW?? Is it something to break?? How much more is the cost (power drive vs 4 dial indicators)??? Help... PK
|
As with all things, I guess its how you plan to use it.?
At our pro shop, we're constantly bouncing back and forth with setups and I know how long manual adjusting and verification takes....and the mistakes that can get made. I am reminded at least every other setup how smart the decision was because we don't make so many mistakes and it's easier to get back to a previous setup. Many times its as simple as taking a photo on the phone to reference upon return. This is super helpful on shaper setups.
All equipment is metric also, for good reason, and further prevents mistakes in measurements and setups. The ability to work in metric also means you are at 0.1mm resolution, which we have found very beneficial. 0.1mm per button tap and its easy to find perfect.
So, from another angle - ask yourself how costly can mistakes be if preventable with digital? And how precise do you need results to be?
I have the power drive on the ad941 j/p and the dumbed down version of it on the k700s.
On the ad941 i had a little bit of a hard time with the “tap” at first but doesn’t take the long to get the hang of of it, i will say that seems a bit more troubling in decimal than mm, i only use mm...
The saw, the dumbed down version as I call it is the version that has no digital readout and is for the blade up and down only - the tilt is the dial indicator, I would not recommend that configuration, when you try to dial in the exact height of the blade it’s hard to get it where you want without trial and error, you would be better off with manual and a dial indicator.
From what I understand the powerdrive is pretty robust and accurate, i did inquire about the cost of replacing the board if it failed and was told it is something like $200 - $300. You should expect a good 10 years on a quality built circuit board these days and really much longer, i work in industrial controls now and we have similar build quality boards in super harsh conditions (talking unconditioned, exposed to elements in India, Africa to name a few but pretty much every location on earth and 24/7 operations) that last 10 years. A lot of boards if not all these days can also be repaired if you know what to look for, use to be that these boards were one offs now mostly a commodity item. I am not at all concerned with powerdrive level electronics...
Digi drive is a different story so someone else with experience would have to comment on that.?
I would think with the saw shaper you would want the power drive for ease of shaper setup but I am not a combo guy for saw shaper....
The k940s that is replacing my k700s will be power drive with all dro, i am an ex professional furniture/millwork maker but now hobby some commission and i think the powerdrive is basically $1500 and full dro $1500 and totally worth it over the long hall. I figure at best I have 25-30yrs left of woodworking so not alot in the scheme of things... ? [Edited Message Follows]
Well, I spent some time this week with Carl @Felder in Anaheim.? Decided on a configuration I think.? Waiting on a quote.? KF700SP if it is possible to get it in single phase with a 9' slider. I am really torn about power drive.? Carl had lots of thoughts around going manual.? The tap feature does seem annoying, but I haven't lived with it to know. What does everyone think?? For a hobby WW?? Is it something to break?? How much more is the cost (power drive vs 4 dial indicators)??? Help... PK
|
i would 2nd Mark’s thought on motorized blade elevation without DRO. i have the same setup on K975 and it is tedious if you need to set exact blade height. while cool, i think it should be either manual or motorized with DRO - power drive in felder lingo. i have power drive on dual51 and tapping works fine.
imran?
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On Nov 22, 2020, at 1:01 AM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote: ? I have the power drive on the ad941 j/p and the dumbed down version of it on the k700s.
On the ad941 i had a little bit of a hard time with the “tap” at first but doesn’t take the long to get the hang of of it, i will say that seems a bit more troubling in decimal than mm, i only use mm...
The saw, the dumbed down version as I call it is the version that has no digital readout and is for the blade up and down only - the tilt is the dial indicator, I would not recommend that configuration, when you try to dial in the exact height of the blade it’s hard to get it where you want without trial and error, you would be better off with manual and a dial indicator.
From what I understand the powerdrive is pretty robust and accurate, i did inquire about the cost of replacing the board if it failed and was told it is something like $200 - $300. You should expect a good 10 years on a quality built circuit board these days and really much longer, i work in industrial controls now and we have similar build quality boards in super harsh conditions (talking unconditioned, exposed to elements in India, Africa to name a few but pretty much every location on earth and 24/7 operations) that last 10 years. A lot of boards if not all these days can also be repaired if you know what to look for, use to be that these boards were one offs now mostly a commodity item. I am not at all concerned with powerdrive level electronics...
Digi drive is a different story so someone else with experience would have to comment on that.?
I would think with the saw shaper you would want the power drive for ease of shaper setup but I am not a combo guy for saw shaper....
The k940s that is replacing my k700s will be power drive with all dro, i am an ex professional furniture/millwork maker but now hobby some commission and i think the powerdrive is basically $1500 and full dro $1500 and totally worth it over the long hall. I figure at best I have 25-30yrs left of woodworking so not alot in the scheme of things... On Nov 22, 2020, at 12:12 AM, PK <paul.kellymjc@...> wrote:
? [Edited Message Follows]
Well, I spent some time this week with Carl @Felder in Anaheim.? Decided on a configuration I think.? Waiting on a quote.? KF700SP if it is possible to get it in single phase with a 9' slider. I am really torn about power drive.? Carl had lots of thoughts around going manual.? The tap feature does seem annoying, but I haven't lived with it to know. What does everyone think?? For a hobby WW?? Is it something to break?? How much more is the cost (power drive vs 4 dial indicators)??? Help... PK
|
I have a DRO on my spindle moulder (shaper to you guys !) and my thicknesser. ?I wouldn't be without either. ? I don't have a power feed on either but if I had the choice I’d put one on the thicknesser….but only if it referenced the DRO. End of the day, it’s the height that’s critical…not how long it takes to get there. ?IMO. (but I am only a one-man band)
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i would 2nd Mark’s thought on motorized blade elevation without DRO. i have the same setup on K975 and it is tedious if you need to set exact blade height. while cool, i think it should be either manual or motorized with DRO - power drive in felder lingo. i have power drive on dual51 and tapping works fine.
imran? ? I have the power drive on the ad941 j/p and the dumbed down version of it on the k700s.
On the ad941 i had a little bit of a hard time with the “tap” at first but doesn’t take the long to get the hang of of it, i will say that seems a bit more troubling in decimal than mm, i only use mm...
The saw, the dumbed down version as I call it is the version that has no digital readout and is for the blade up and down only - the tilt is the dial indicator, I would not recommend that configuration, when you try to dial in the exact height of the blade it’s hard to get it where you want without trial and error, you would be better off with manual and a dial indicator.
From what I understand the powerdrive is pretty robust and accurate, i did inquire about the cost of replacing the board if it failed and was told it is something like $200 - $300. You should expect a good 10 years on a quality built circuit board these days and really much longer, i work in industrial controls now and we have similar build quality boards in super harsh conditions (talking unconditioned, exposed to elements in India, Africa to name a few but pretty much every location on earth and 24/7 operations) that last 10 years. A lot of boards if not all these days can also be repaired if you know what to look for, use to be that these boards were one offs now mostly a commodity item. I am not at all concerned with powerdrive level electronics...
Digi drive is a different story so someone else with experience would have to comment on that.?
I would think with the saw shaper you would want the power drive for ease of shaper setup but I am not a combo guy for saw shaper....
The k940s that is replacing my k700s will be power drive with all dro, i am an ex professional furniture/millwork maker but now hobby some commission and i think the powerdrive is basically $1500 and full dro $1500 and totally worth it over the long hall. I figure at best I have 25-30yrs left of woodworking so not alot in the scheme of things... ? [Edited Message Follows]
Well, I spent some time this week with Carl @Felder in Anaheim.? Decided on a configuration I think.? Waiting on a quote.? KF700SP if it is possible to get it in single phase with a 9' slider. I am really torn about power drive.? Carl had lots of thoughts around going manual.? The tap feature does seem annoying, but I haven't lived with it to know. What does everyone think?? For a hobby WW?? Is it something to break?? How much more is the cost (power drive vs 4 dial indicators)??? Help... PK
|
How much do you plan on using the shaper and how large of a motor can you get in single phase?? At the expense of that machine, I'd want three phase and budget for a balanced rpc or Phase Perfect, particularly for the shaper.? Dave
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[Edited Message Follows]
Well,
I spent some time this week with Carl @Felder in Anaheim.? Decided on a configuration I think.? Waiting on a quote.? KF700SP if it is possible to get it in single phase with a 9' slider.
I am really torn about power drive.? Carl had lots of thoughts around going manual.? The tap feature does seem annoying, but I haven't lived with it to know.
What does everyone think?? For a hobby WW?? Is it something to break?? How much more is the cost (power drive vs 4 dial indicators)???
Help...
PK
|
I have powerdrive on my first Felder and I insisted on powerdrive for the second machine when shopping used.? The tap is not that annoying. I suspect
a tap is a perfect increment in metric and when set for imperial it’s not a consistent imperial move.
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of PK
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 10:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Would you buy a combo Shaper/Saw?
?
Well,
I spent some time this week with Carl @Felder in Anaheim.? Decided on a configuration I think.? Waiting on a quote.
I am really torn about power drive.? Carl had lots of thoughts around going manual.? The tap feature does seem annoying, but I haven't lived with it to know.
What does everyone think?? For a hobby WW?? Is it something to break?? How much more is the cost (power drive vs 4 dial indicators)???
Help...
PK
|
I have never seen a Felder saw/shaper with motorized blade elevation that did not have a DRO indicating blade height. ?Such an option is not listed in any of the Felder spec sheets I have access to. ?Below is a photo of the control panel for Power Drive on a KF700 taken right off the Felder web site. ?My Dual 51, Profil 45, and K975 all have (or had in the case of the K975) Power Drive and the “tapping” concern by fumble-fingered Carl is way over blown. ?Jeez, they even give you a button to tap on for 0.1mm adjustments.
I replaced the Power Drive positioning control board in my Profil 45 when the rotary phase converter over-voltage fried the board because the wrong fuse type had been installed at the factory. ?This incident was the primary reason I dumped the rotary and went to Phase Perfect. ? As I recall, the control board was about $300. ?It is the same control board that is used on all the machines, and the replacement part I received was pre-programmed for a saw, so after installation I had to delve into the parameters and change a few settings. ?Documentation for this was scant, but it wasn’t rocket science figuring it out either. ?Looking up a few german words is to be expected in situations like this if a Felder tech isn’t available for phone consultation. ?The biggest challenge replacing the board was getting access to it - on my 2005 Profil 45 the board is behind the switch panel and not in the electronics cabinet. ?Getting those plastic bezel panels off and back on again required eighteen 22” long fingers. ? Since this positioning control board is used on all the basic Felder machines, it’s seen years of field time and is probably pretty rock solid and likely to be available as a spare for some time.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
i would 2nd Mark’s thought on motorized blade elevation without DRO. i have the same setup on K975 and it is tedious if you need to set exact blade height. while cool, i think it should be either manual or motorized with DRO - power drive in felder lingo. i have power drive on dual51 and tapping works fine.
imran? ? I have the power drive on the ad941 j/p and the dumbed down version of it on the k700s.
On the ad941 i had a little bit of a hard time with the “tap” at first but doesn’t take the long to get the hang of of it, i will say that seems a bit more troubling in decimal than mm, i only use mm...
The saw, the dumbed down version as I call it is the version that has no digital readout and is for the blade up and down only - the tilt is the dial indicator, I would not recommend that configuration, when you try to dial in the exact height of the blade it’s hard to get it where you want without trial and error, you would be better off with manual and a dial indicator.
From what I understand the powerdrive is pretty robust and accurate, i did inquire about the cost of replacing the board if it failed and was told it is something like $200 - $300. You should expect a good 10 years on a quality built circuit board these days and really much longer, i work in industrial controls now and we have similar build quality boards in super harsh conditions (talking unconditioned, exposed to elements in India, Africa to name a few but pretty much every location on earth and 24/7 operations) that last 10 years. A lot of boards if not all these days can also be repaired if you know what to look for, use to be that these boards were one offs now mostly a commodity item. I am not at all concerned with powerdrive level electronics...
Digi drive is a different story so someone else with experience would have to comment on that.?
I would think with the saw shaper you would want the power drive for ease of shaper setup but I am not a combo guy for saw shaper....
The k940s that is replacing my k700s will be power drive with all dro, i am an ex professional furniture/millwork maker but now hobby some commission and i think the powerdrive is basically $1500 and full dro $1500 and totally worth it over the long hall. I figure at best I have 25-30yrs left of woodworking so not alot in the scheme of things... ? [Edited Message Follows]
Well, I spent some time this week with Carl @Felder in Anaheim.? Decided on a configuration I think.? Waiting on a quote.? KF700SP if it is possible to get it in single phase with a 9' slider. I am really torn about power drive.? Carl had lots of thoughts around going manual.? The tap feature does seem annoying, but I haven't lived with it to know. What does everyone think?? For a hobby WW?? Is it something to break?? How much more is the cost (power drive vs 4 dial indicators)??? Help... PK
|
David,
my K975 has motorized blade elevation w/o DRO and i believe Mark K mentioned his K700 had the same. it may be, as you mentioned, that felder does not offer it on saw/shapers. that is good to know. do you know if a single electronic board is used for both saw and shaper?
imran
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On Nov 22, 2020, at 11:55 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote: ? I have never seen a Felder saw/shaper with motorized blade elevation that did not have a DRO indicating blade height. ?Such an option is not listed in any of the Felder spec sheets I have access to. ?Below is a photo of the control panel for Power Drive on a KF700 taken right off the Felder web site. ?My Dual 51, Profil 45, and K975 all have (or had in the case of the K975) Power Drive and the “tapping” concern by fumble-fingered Carl is way over blown. ?Jeez, they even give you a button to tap on for 0.1mm adjustments.
I replaced the Power Drive positioning control board in my Profil 45 when the rotary phase converter over-voltage fried the board because the wrong fuse type had been installed at the factory. ?This incident was the primary reason I dumped the rotary and went to Phase Perfect. ? As I recall, the control board was about $300. ?It is the same control board that is used on all the machines, and the replacement part I received was pre-programmed for a saw, so after installation I had to delve into the parameters and change a few settings. ?Documentation for this was scant, but it wasn’t rocket science figuring it out either. ?Looking up a few german words is to be expected in situations like this if a Felder tech isn’t available for phone consultation. ?The biggest challenge replacing the board was getting access to it - on my 2005 Profil 45 the board is behind the switch panel and not in the electronics cabinet. ?Getting those plastic bezel panels off and back on again required eighteen 22” long fingers. ? Since this positioning control board is used on all the basic Felder machines, it’s seen years of field time and is probably pretty rock solid and likely to be available as a spare for some time.
i would 2nd Mark’s thought on motorized blade elevation without DRO. i have the same setup on K975 and it is tedious if you need to set exact blade height. while cool, i think it should be either manual or motorized with DRO - power drive in felder lingo. i have power drive on dual51 and tapping works fine.
imran? ? I have the power drive on the ad941 j/p and the dumbed down version of it on the k700s.
On the ad941 i had a little bit of a hard time with the “tap” at first but doesn’t take the long to get the hang of of it, i will say that seems a bit more troubling in decimal than mm, i only use mm...
The saw, the dumbed down version as I call it is the version that has no digital readout and is for the blade up and down only - the tilt is the dial indicator, I would not recommend that configuration, when you try to dial in the exact height of the blade it’s hard to get it where you want without trial and error, you would be better off with manual and a dial indicator.
From what I understand the powerdrive is pretty robust and accurate, i did inquire about the cost of replacing the board if it failed and was told it is something like $200 - $300. You should expect a good 10 years on a quality built circuit board these days and really much longer, i work in industrial controls now and we have similar build quality boards in super harsh conditions (talking unconditioned, exposed to elements in India, Africa to name a few but pretty much every location on earth and 24/7 operations) that last 10 years. A lot of boards if not all these days can also be repaired if you know what to look for, use to be that these boards were one offs now mostly a commodity item. I am not at all concerned with powerdrive level electronics...
Digi drive is a different story so someone else with experience would have to comment on that.?
I would think with the saw shaper you would want the power drive for ease of shaper setup but I am not a combo guy for saw shaper....
The k940s that is replacing my k700s will be power drive with all dro, i am an ex professional furniture/millwork maker but now hobby some commission and i think the powerdrive is basically $1500 and full dro $1500 and totally worth it over the long hall. I figure at best I have 25-30yrs left of woodworking so not alot in the scheme of things... ? [Edited Message Follows]
Well, I spent some time this week with Carl @Felder in Anaheim.? Decided on a configuration I think.? Waiting on a quote.? KF700SP if it is possible to get it in single phase with a 9' slider. I am really torn about power drive.? Carl had lots of thoughts around going manual.? The tap feature does seem annoying, but I haven't lived with it to know. What does everyone think?? For a hobby WW?? Is it something to break?? How much more is the cost (power drive vs 4 dial indicators)??? Help... PK
|
I have power drive in my KF700SP - and couldnt be happier. Used to work at a place with a non-power drive Felder saw - and the power drive is well worth the money. I use it daily and it really helps when you are going back and forth between setups - which you are, because its a combo.?
I agree that lifting the power feeder is really awkward and dangerous. I'm 36 and pretty strong - but it can overpower me - and leads me to using manual feeds more often than not. I just dont?want the hassle of lifting and setting up the feeder. I would not buy the feeder on a KF700SP, if I was to do it again.?
On a separate?shaper - I would definitely get a feeder.
David
|
Imran, I would doubt they make a separate board for the saw, saw/shaper or what we have, (we could be the exception though) where I work our temperature control products have different features depending on what the customer buys, some of it enabled buy buying a license and inputing the code on the controller head other features require additional hardware to work but the boards are all the same, easier to manage EOL, the contractor that builds the boards and product development.?
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On Nov 23, 2020, at 8:11 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? David,
my K975 has motorized blade elevation w/o DRO and i believe Mark K mentioned his K700 had the same. it may be, as you mentioned, that felder does not offer it on saw/shapers. that is good to know. do you know if a single electronic board is used for both saw and shaper?
imran
On Nov 22, 2020, at 11:55 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? I have never seen a Felder saw/shaper with motorized blade elevation that did not have a DRO indicating blade height. ?Such an option is not listed in any of the Felder spec sheets I have access to. ?Below is a photo of the control panel for Power Drive on a KF700 taken right off the Felder web site. ?My Dual 51, Profil 45, and K975 all have (or had in the case of the K975) Power Drive and the “tapping” concern by fumble-fingered Carl is way over blown. ?Jeez, they even give you a button to tap on for 0.1mm adjustments.
I replaced the Power Drive positioning control board in my Profil 45 when the rotary phase converter over-voltage fried the board because the wrong fuse type had been installed at the factory. ?This incident was the primary reason I dumped the rotary and went to Phase Perfect. ? As I recall, the control board was about $300. ?It is the same control board that is used on all the machines, and the replacement part I received was pre-programmed for a saw, so after installation I had to delve into the parameters and change a few settings. ?Documentation for this was scant, but it wasn’t rocket science figuring it out either. ?Looking up a few german words is to be expected in situations like this if a Felder tech isn’t available for phone consultation. ?The biggest challenge replacing the board was getting access to it - on my 2005 Profil 45 the board is behind the switch panel and not in the electronics cabinet. ?Getting those plastic bezel panels off and back on again required eighteen 22” long fingers. ? Since this positioning control board is used on all the basic Felder machines, it’s seen years of field time and is probably pretty rock solid and likely to be available as a spare for some time.
i would 2nd Mark’s thought on motorized blade elevation without DRO. i have the same setup on K975 and it is tedious if you need to set exact blade height. while cool, i think it should be either manual or motorized with DRO - power drive in felder lingo. i have power drive on dual51 and tapping works fine.
imran? ? I have the power drive on the ad941 j/p and the dumbed down version of it on the k700s.
On the ad941 i had a little bit of a hard time with the “tap” at first but doesn’t take the long to get the hang of of it, i will say that seems a bit more troubling in decimal than mm, i only use mm...
The saw, the dumbed down version as I call it is the version that has no digital readout and is for the blade up and down only - the tilt is the dial indicator, I would not recommend that configuration, when you try to dial in the exact height of the blade it’s hard to get it where you want without trial and error, you would be better off with manual and a dial indicator.
From what I understand the powerdrive is pretty robust and accurate, i did inquire about the cost of replacing the board if it failed and was told it is something like $200 - $300. You should expect a good 10 years on a quality built circuit board these days and really much longer, i work in industrial controls now and we have similar build quality boards in super harsh conditions (talking unconditioned, exposed to elements in India, Africa to name a few but pretty much every location on earth and 24/7 operations) that last 10 years. A lot of boards if not all these days can also be repaired if you know what to look for, use to be that these boards were one offs now mostly a commodity item. I am not at all concerned with powerdrive level electronics...
Digi drive is a different story so someone else with experience would have to comment on that.?
I would think with the saw shaper you would want the power drive for ease of shaper setup but I am not a combo guy for saw shaper....
The k940s that is replacing my k700s will be power drive with all dro, i am an ex professional furniture/millwork maker but now hobby some commission and i think the powerdrive is basically $1500 and full dro $1500 and totally worth it over the long hall. I figure at best I have 25-30yrs left of woodworking so not alot in the scheme of things... ? [Edited Message Follows]
Well, I spent some time this week with Carl @Felder in Anaheim.? Decided on a configuration I think.? Waiting on a quote.? KF700SP if it is possible to get it in single phase with a 9' slider. I am really torn about power drive.? Carl had lots of thoughts around going manual.? The tap feature does seem annoying, but I haven't lived with it to know. What does everyone think?? For a hobby WW?? Is it something to break?? How much more is the cost (power drive vs 4 dial indicators)??? Help... PK
|
mark,
i am pretty sure if is the same board with parameters that allow it to be used for saw or shaper. my question was whether a single board is used vs two separate ones for saw and shaper? i wondered about this because per David, it appears that, all saw/shapers have power drive for both functions.
imran
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On Nov 23, 2020, at 8:25 AM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote: ? Imran, I would doubt they make a separate board for the saw, saw/shaper or what we have, (we could be the exception though) where I work our temperature control products have different features depending on what the customer buys, some of it enabled buy buying a license and inputing the code on the controller head other features require additional hardware to work but the boards are all the same, easier to manage EOL, the contractor that builds the boards and product development.? On Nov 23, 2020, at 8:11 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? David,
my K975 has motorized blade elevation w/o DRO and i believe Mark K mentioned his K700 had the same. it may be, as you mentioned, that felder does not offer it on saw/shapers. that is good to know. do you know if a single electronic board is used for both saw and shaper?
imran
On Nov 22, 2020, at 11:55 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? I have never seen a Felder saw/shaper with motorized blade elevation that did not have a DRO indicating blade height. ?Such an option is not listed in any of the Felder spec sheets I have access to. ?Below is a photo of the control panel for Power Drive on a KF700 taken right off the Felder web site. ?My Dual 51, Profil 45, and K975 all have (or had in the case of the K975) Power Drive and the “tapping” concern by fumble-fingered Carl is way over blown. ?Jeez, they even give you a button to tap on for 0.1mm adjustments.
I replaced the Power Drive positioning control board in my Profil 45 when the rotary phase converter over-voltage fried the board because the wrong fuse type had been installed at the factory. ?This incident was the primary reason I dumped the rotary and went to Phase Perfect. ? As I recall, the control board was about $300. ?It is the same control board that is used on all the machines, and the replacement part I received was pre-programmed for a saw, so after installation I had to delve into the parameters and change a few settings. ?Documentation for this was scant, but it wasn’t rocket science figuring it out either. ?Looking up a few german words is to be expected in situations like this if a Felder tech isn’t available for phone consultation. ?The biggest challenge replacing the board was getting access to it - on my 2005 Profil 45 the board is behind the switch panel and not in the electronics cabinet. ?Getting those plastic bezel panels off and back on again required eighteen 22” long fingers. ? Since this positioning control board is used on all the basic Felder machines, it’s seen years of field time and is probably pretty rock solid and likely to be available as a spare for some time.
i would 2nd Mark’s thought on motorized blade elevation without DRO. i have the same setup on K975 and it is tedious if you need to set exact blade height. while cool, i think it should be either manual or motorized with DRO - power drive in felder lingo. i have power drive on dual51 and tapping works fine.
imran? ? I have the power drive on the ad941 j/p and the dumbed down version of it on the k700s.
On the ad941 i had a little bit of a hard time with the “tap” at first but doesn’t take the long to get the hang of of it, i will say that seems a bit more troubling in decimal than mm, i only use mm...
The saw, the dumbed down version as I call it is the version that has no digital readout and is for the blade up and down only - the tilt is the dial indicator, I would not recommend that configuration, when you try to dial in the exact height of the blade it’s hard to get it where you want without trial and error, you would be better off with manual and a dial indicator.
From what I understand the powerdrive is pretty robust and accurate, i did inquire about the cost of replacing the board if it failed and was told it is something like $200 - $300. You should expect a good 10 years on a quality built circuit board these days and really much longer, i work in industrial controls now and we have similar build quality boards in super harsh conditions (talking unconditioned, exposed to elements in India, Africa to name a few but pretty much every location on earth and 24/7 operations) that last 10 years. A lot of boards if not all these days can also be repaired if you know what to look for, use to be that these boards were one offs now mostly a commodity item. I am not at all concerned with powerdrive level electronics...
Digi drive is a different story so someone else with experience would have to comment on that.?
I would think with the saw shaper you would want the power drive for ease of shaper setup but I am not a combo guy for saw shaper....
The k940s that is replacing my k700s will be power drive with all dro, i am an ex professional furniture/millwork maker but now hobby some commission and i think the powerdrive is basically $1500 and full dro $1500 and totally worth it over the long hall. I figure at best I have 25-30yrs left of woodworking so not alot in the scheme of things... ? [Edited Message Follows]
Well, I spent some time this week with Carl @Felder in Anaheim.? Decided on a configuration I think.? Waiting on a quote.? KF700SP if it is possible to get it in single phase with a 9' slider. I am really torn about power drive.? Carl had lots of thoughts around going manual.? The tap feature does seem annoying, but I haven't lived with it to know. What does everyone think?? For a hobby WW?? Is it something to break?? How much more is the cost (power drive vs 4 dial indicators)??? Help... PK
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Mark,
on a side note, in my 30 yrs of designing an engine control module(ECM), many times it appeared that we could just have 3 or 4 products and serve our entire clientele but it never materialized. even though, an ECM has become a commodity item from BOM to sale price point of view, everyone wants their own design.
i agree same is not true in other industries.
imran
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On Nov 23, 2020, at 8:25 AM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote: ? Imran, I would doubt they make a separate board for the saw, saw/shaper or what we have, (we could be the exception though) where I work our temperature control products have different features depending on what the customer buys, some of it enabled buy buying a license and inputing the code on the controller head other features require additional hardware to work but the boards are all the same, easier to manage EOL, the contractor that builds the boards and product development.? On Nov 23, 2020, at 8:11 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? David,
my K975 has motorized blade elevation w/o DRO and i believe Mark K mentioned his K700 had the same. it may be, as you mentioned, that felder does not offer it on saw/shapers. that is good to know. do you know if a single electronic board is used for both saw and shaper?
imran
On Nov 22, 2020, at 11:55 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? I have never seen a Felder saw/shaper with motorized blade elevation that did not have a DRO indicating blade height. ?Such an option is not listed in any of the Felder spec sheets I have access to. ?Below is a photo of the control panel for Power Drive on a KF700 taken right off the Felder web site. ?My Dual 51, Profil 45, and K975 all have (or had in the case of the K975) Power Drive and the “tapping” concern by fumble-fingered Carl is way over blown. ?Jeez, they even give you a button to tap on for 0.1mm adjustments.
I replaced the Power Drive positioning control board in my Profil 45 when the rotary phase converter over-voltage fried the board because the wrong fuse type had been installed at the factory. ?This incident was the primary reason I dumped the rotary and went to Phase Perfect. ? As I recall, the control board was about $300. ?It is the same control board that is used on all the machines, and the replacement part I received was pre-programmed for a saw, so after installation I had to delve into the parameters and change a few settings. ?Documentation for this was scant, but it wasn’t rocket science figuring it out either. ?Looking up a few german words is to be expected in situations like this if a Felder tech isn’t available for phone consultation. ?The biggest challenge replacing the board was getting access to it - on my 2005 Profil 45 the board is behind the switch panel and not in the electronics cabinet. ?Getting those plastic bezel panels off and back on again required eighteen 22” long fingers. ? Since this positioning control board is used on all the basic Felder machines, it’s seen years of field time and is probably pretty rock solid and likely to be available as a spare for some time.
i would 2nd Mark’s thought on motorized blade elevation without DRO. i have the same setup on K975 and it is tedious if you need to set exact blade height. while cool, i think it should be either manual or motorized with DRO - power drive in felder lingo. i have power drive on dual51 and tapping works fine.
imran? ? I have the power drive on the ad941 j/p and the dumbed down version of it on the k700s.
On the ad941 i had a little bit of a hard time with the “tap” at first but doesn’t take the long to get the hang of of it, i will say that seems a bit more troubling in decimal than mm, i only use mm...
The saw, the dumbed down version as I call it is the version that has no digital readout and is for the blade up and down only - the tilt is the dial indicator, I would not recommend that configuration, when you try to dial in the exact height of the blade it’s hard to get it where you want without trial and error, you would be better off with manual and a dial indicator.
From what I understand the powerdrive is pretty robust and accurate, i did inquire about the cost of replacing the board if it failed and was told it is something like $200 - $300. You should expect a good 10 years on a quality built circuit board these days and really much longer, i work in industrial controls now and we have similar build quality boards in super harsh conditions (talking unconditioned, exposed to elements in India, Africa to name a few but pretty much every location on earth and 24/7 operations) that last 10 years. A lot of boards if not all these days can also be repaired if you know what to look for, use to be that these boards were one offs now mostly a commodity item. I am not at all concerned with powerdrive level electronics...
Digi drive is a different story so someone else with experience would have to comment on that.?
I would think with the saw shaper you would want the power drive for ease of shaper setup but I am not a combo guy for saw shaper....
The k940s that is replacing my k700s will be power drive with all dro, i am an ex professional furniture/millwork maker but now hobby some commission and i think the powerdrive is basically $1500 and full dro $1500 and totally worth it over the long hall. I figure at best I have 25-30yrs left of woodworking so not alot in the scheme of things... ? [Edited Message Follows]
Well, I spent some time this week with Carl @Felder in Anaheim.? Decided on a configuration I think.? Waiting on a quote.? KF700SP if it is possible to get it in single phase with a 9' slider. I am really torn about power drive.? Carl had lots of thoughts around going manual.? The tap feature does seem annoying, but I haven't lived with it to know. What does everyone think?? For a hobby WW?? Is it something to break?? How much more is the cost (power drive vs 4 dial indicators)??? Help... PK
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On Nov 23, 2020, at 8:46 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? mark,
i am pretty sure if is the same board with parameters that allow it to be used for saw or shaper. my question was whether a single board is used vs two separate ones for saw and shaper? i wondered about this because per David, it appears that, all saw/shapers have power drive for both functions.
imran
On Nov 23, 2020, at 8:25 AM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? Imran, I would doubt they make a separate board for the saw, saw/shaper or what we have, (we could be the exception though) where I work our temperature control products have different features depending on what the customer buys, some of it enabled buy buying a license and inputing the code on the controller head other features require additional hardware to work but the boards are all the same, easier to manage EOL, the contractor that builds the boards and product development.? On Nov 23, 2020, at 8:11 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? David,
my K975 has motorized blade elevation w/o DRO and i believe Mark K mentioned his K700 had the same. it may be, as you mentioned, that felder does not offer it on saw/shapers. that is good to know. do you know if a single electronic board is used for both saw and shaper?
imran
On Nov 22, 2020, at 11:55 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? I have never seen a Felder saw/shaper with motorized blade elevation that did not have a DRO indicating blade height. ?Such an option is not listed in any of the Felder spec sheets I have access to. ?Below is a photo of the control panel for Power Drive on a KF700 taken right off the Felder web site. ?My Dual 51, Profil 45, and K975 all have (or had in the case of the K975) Power Drive and the “tapping” concern by fumble-fingered Carl is way over blown. ?Jeez, they even give you a button to tap on for 0.1mm adjustments.
I replaced the Power Drive positioning control board in my Profil 45 when the rotary phase converter over-voltage fried the board because the wrong fuse type had been installed at the factory. ?This incident was the primary reason I dumped the rotary and went to Phase Perfect. ? As I recall, the control board was about $300. ?It is the same control board that is used on all the machines, and the replacement part I received was pre-programmed for a saw, so after installation I had to delve into the parameters and change a few settings. ?Documentation for this was scant, but it wasn’t rocket science figuring it out either. ?Looking up a few german words is to be expected in situations like this if a Felder tech isn’t available for phone consultation. ?The biggest challenge replacing the board was getting access to it - on my 2005 Profil 45 the board is behind the switch panel and not in the electronics cabinet. ?Getting those plastic bezel panels off and back on again required eighteen 22” long fingers. ? Since this positioning control board is used on all the basic Felder machines, it’s seen years of field time and is probably pretty rock solid and likely to be available as a spare for some time.
i would 2nd Mark’s thought on motorized blade elevation without DRO. i have the same setup on K975 and it is tedious if you need to set exact blade height. while cool, i think it should be either manual or motorized with DRO - power drive in felder lingo. i have power drive on dual51 and tapping works fine.
imran? ? I have the power drive on the ad941 j/p and the dumbed down version of it on the k700s.
On the ad941 i had a little bit of a hard time with the “tap” at first but doesn’t take the long to get the hang of of it, i will say that seems a bit more troubling in decimal than mm, i only use mm...
The saw, the dumbed down version as I call it is the version that has no digital readout and is for the blade up and down only - the tilt is the dial indicator, I would not recommend that configuration, when you try to dial in the exact height of the blade it’s hard to get it where you want without trial and error, you would be better off with manual and a dial indicator.
From what I understand the powerdrive is pretty robust and accurate, i did inquire about the cost of replacing the board if it failed and was told it is something like $200 - $300. You should expect a good 10 years on a quality built circuit board these days and really much longer, i work in industrial controls now and we have similar build quality boards in super harsh conditions (talking unconditioned, exposed to elements in India, Africa to name a few but pretty much every location on earth and 24/7 operations) that last 10 years. A lot of boards if not all these days can also be repaired if you know what to look for, use to be that these boards were one offs now mostly a commodity item. I am not at all concerned with powerdrive level electronics...
Digi drive is a different story so someone else with experience would have to comment on that.?
I would think with the saw shaper you would want the power drive for ease of shaper setup but I am not a combo guy for saw shaper....
The k940s that is replacing my k700s will be power drive with all dro, i am an ex professional furniture/millwork maker but now hobby some commission and i think the powerdrive is basically $1500 and full dro $1500 and totally worth it over the long hall. I figure at best I have 25-30yrs left of woodworking so not alot in the scheme of things... ? [Edited Message Follows]
Well, I spent some time this week with Carl @Felder in Anaheim.? Decided on a configuration I think.? Waiting on a quote.? KF700SP if it is possible to get it in single phase with a 9' slider. I am really torn about power drive.? Carl had lots of thoughts around going manual.? The tap feature does seem annoying, but I haven't lived with it to know. What does everyone think?? For a hobby WW?? Is it something to break?? How much more is the cost (power drive vs 4 dial indicators)??? Help... PK
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David-
Do you have the gas strut on the powerfeed lift? That is probably a #1 must have option IMO on combo shapers because the powerfeed is really heavy otherwise but it fairly easy to manage with the strut safely. Takes fairly minimal effort with the strut. Just
make sure you have everything locked down before you start moving it.?
I use my feeder very often but it depends on what you do. I do long linear runs where the powerfeed excels quite often- mouldings, door parts. Not used on template work or crosscuts.?
Michael Tagge
Built Custom Carpentry?
Get
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I have power drive in my KF700SP - and couldnt be happier. Used to work at a place with a non-power drive Felder saw - and the power drive is well worth the money. I use it daily and it really helps when you are going back and forth between setups
- which you are, because its a combo.?
I agree that lifting the power feeder is really awkward and dangerous. I'm 36 and pretty strong - but it can overpower me - and leads me to using manual feeds more often than not. I just dont?want the hassle of lifting and setting up the feeder. I would not
buy the feeder on a KF700SP, if I was to do it again.?
On a separate?shaper - I would definitely get a feeder.
David
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Michael - no, I havent?- but sounds like I should get one. Where did you get it?
David
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David,
see this message for DIY solution:
alternatively, you can replace your tilt bracket with one supplied by felder with gas strut. just make sure it is compatible with your machine
imran?
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On Nov 23, 2020, at 9:45 AM, David Pepke <davidpepke@...> wrote: ? Michael - no, I havent?- but sounds like I should get one. Where did you get it?
David
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Thanks Imran - I'll look it up!
David
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PK
imran
Joe Jensen
David P. Best