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Looking for recommendations on best substrate for veneering rift white oak for kitchen slab cabinets.? Also a preferred supplier who can provide multiple matching sheets.??
I recently made the cabinet drawers for a bathroom using GL Veneer premium rift white veneer with 10 Mil backer.? Two 3/8 MDF, cupped side were Total Boat epoxied together.? Glued 5/8 wide rift white oak hardwood to all 4 sides using Titebond 3.? Veneered using vacuum pump and Unibond One.? Clear coat was Renner 851.? My results were very good but not great.? The veneer looks great but the drawers are not 100% flat.??
The kitchen cabinets doors and drawers will be larger. Multiple matching veneers from GL is? $300 plus per sheet.? Suggestions on products and process to improve on???
I appreciate your thoughts.
Storm
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Hi Storm, I did a rift white oak slab door and drawer front kitchen a few years ago. It's a really beautiful look.I ordered 10 sequence matched sheets of Europly from Columbia. The edges were not banded, but finished the same as the front and back. Saved a lot of work, but don't go this route. Lots of warping of the doors? Columbia will tell you never use any plywood for doors, MDF only. I'd follow that recommendation now after that painful experience.?
I'd encourage you to buy your veneer raw from Certainly Wood. They are a great company. Super nice helpful people, great selection and good pricing too. I don't like paper backed veneers, you always see that line unless you edge band veneering-but why would you do that? You have ultimate control over your matching and yield when doing it in house. Use good quality MDF like Ranger or Plum Creek, not the crap at Menards or Home Depot. Experience tells me that your 5/8" wide solid edge banding is too wide. It will telegraph through the face over time. Mine is never wider than 1/4" and I've had good success with that. I like the Unibond One and use it almost exclusively now, with the exception of the times when 800 is needed for open time or strength.
If you want to look at buying matched sheets pre veneered, Saunders Wood Specialties in Park Falls, WI is a great resource. Talk to Amy Smith. They do lots of work for me and it is top notch and not cost prohibitive.
Feel free to contact me directly if you want to talk in more detail.
Jason Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
I just finished a job using slip matched rift white oak in 3/4 inch sheets. Luckily I found a supplier locally who carried sheets of it. They also had MDF core sheet that I used for the doors. Totally flat.? It was also matching grain on both sides.?
Saved me a ton of time getting it already on a sheet.? I think I paid 220$ a sheet. Right now just the veneer is 90$ at my veneer supplier. Never mind the substrate, balancing sheet(which would be another 90$ for matching grain) glue and time.?
If you are in the northeast check out Atlantic plywood. But I’m sure there are other options out there.?
On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 8:26?AM Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: Hi Storm, I did a rift white oak slab door and drawer front kitchen a few years ago. It's a really beautiful look.I ordered 10 sequence matched sheets of Europly from Columbia. The edges were not banded, but finished the same as the front and back. Saved a lot of work, but don't go this route. Lots of warping of the doors? Columbia will tell you never use any plywood for doors, MDF only. I'd follow that recommendation now after that painful experience.?
I'd encourage you to buy your veneer raw from Certainly Wood. They are a great company. Super nice helpful people, great selection and good pricing too. I don't like paper backed veneers, you always see that line unless you edge band veneering-but why would you do that? You have ultimate control over your matching and yield when doing it in house. Use good quality MDF like Ranger or Plum Creek, not the crap at Menards or Home Depot. Experience tells me that your 5/8" wide solid edge banding is too wide. It will telegraph through the face over time. Mine is never wider than 1/4" and I've had good success with that. I like the Unibond One and use it almost exclusively now, with the exception of the times when 800 is needed for open time or strength.
If you want to look at buying matched sheets pre veneered, Saunders Wood Specialties in Park Falls, WI is a great resource. Talk to Amy Smith. They do lots of work for me and it is top notch and not cost prohibitive.
Feel free to contact me directly if you want to talk in more detail.
Jason Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
612 432-2765
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
|
Hi Andy,
When you use the MDF core ply for doors, what is your edge-banding method?
I recently had three CVG Fir doors that I built, 18”x42”, and one of the plywood doors decided to warp on me a bit. ?The edge treatment was just the thin Fir edge-banding.?
Thx,
Wade
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Show quoted text
On Feb 2, 2024, at 5:47 AM, Andy <andy.raynor08@...> wrote:
? I just finished a job using slip matched rift white oak in 3/4 inch sheets. Luckily I found a supplier locally who carried sheets of it. They also had MDF core sheet that I used for the doors. Totally flat.? It was also matching grain on both sides.?
Saved me a ton of time getting it already on a sheet.? I think I paid 220$ a sheet. Right now just the veneer is 90$ at my veneer supplier. Never mind the substrate, balancing sheet(which would be another 90$ for matching grain) glue and time.?
If you are in the northeast check out Atlantic plywood. But I’m sure there are other options out there.?
On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 8:26?AM Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: Hi Storm, I did a rift white oak slab door and drawer front kitchen a few years ago. It's a really beautiful look.I ordered 10 sequence matched sheets of Europly from Columbia. The edges were not banded, but finished the same as the front and back. Saved a lot of work, but don't go this route. Lots of warping of the doors? Columbia will tell you never use any plywood for doors, MDF only. I'd follow that recommendation now after that painful experience.?
I'd encourage you to buy your veneer raw from Certainly Wood. They are a great company. Super nice helpful people, great selection and good pricing too. I don't like paper backed veneers, you always see that line unless you edge band veneering-but why would you do that? You have ultimate control over your matching and yield when doing it in house. Use good quality MDF like Ranger or Plum Creek, not the crap at Menards or Home Depot. Experience tells me that your 5/8" wide solid edge banding is too wide. It will telegraph through the face over time. Mine is never wider than 1/4" and I've had good success with that. I like the Unibond One and use it almost exclusively now, with the exception of the times when 800 is needed for open time or strength.
If you want to look at buying matched sheets pre veneered, Saunders Wood Specialties in Park Falls, WI is a great resource. Talk to Amy Smith. They do lots of work for me and it is top notch and not cost prohibitive.
Feel free to contact me directly if you want to talk in more detail.
Jason Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
612 432-2765
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
|
For this job I actually used hardwood for a micro shaker look on the doors.? I’ll look back in my photos to see if I have a picture of that finished detail. The edges are quartersawn white oak about 30mm. Then I used my Lamello to connect them to the panel.?
I’ve had luck however using traditional edge banding applied with a Festool conturo as well.?
Hi Andy,
When you use the MDF core ply for doors, what is your edge-banding method?
I recently had three CVG Fir doors that I built, 18”x42”, and one of the plywood doors decided to warp on me a bit.? The edge treatment was just the thin Fir edge-banding.?
Thx,
Wade
? I just finished a job using slip matched rift white oak in 3/4 inch sheets. Luckily I found a supplier locally who carried sheets of it. They also had MDF core sheet that I used for the doors. Totally flat.? It was also matching grain on both sides.?
Saved me a ton of time getting it already on a sheet.? I think I paid 220$ a sheet. Right now just the veneer is 90$ at my veneer supplier. Never mind the substrate, balancing sheet(which would be another 90$ for matching grain) glue and time.?
If you are in the northeast check out Atlantic plywood. But I’m sure there are other options out there.?
On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 8:26?AM Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: Hi Storm, I did a rift white oak slab door and drawer front kitchen a few years ago. It's a really beautiful look.I ordered 10 sequence matched sheets of Europly from Columbia. The edges were not banded, but finished the same as the front and back. Saved a lot of work, but don't go this route. Lots of warping of the doors? Columbia will tell you never use any plywood for doors, MDF only. I'd follow that recommendation now after that painful experience.?
I'd encourage you to buy your veneer raw from Certainly Wood. They are a great company. Super nice helpful people, great selection and good pricing too. I don't like paper backed veneers, you always see that line unless you edge band veneering-but why would you do that? You have ultimate control over your matching and yield when doing it in house. Use good quality MDF like Ranger or Plum Creek, not the crap at Menards or Home Depot. Experience tells me that your 5/8" wide solid edge banding is too wide. It will telegraph through the face over time. Mine is never wider than 1/4" and I've had good success with that. I like the Unibond One and use it almost exclusively now, with the exception of the times when 800 is needed for open time or strength.
If you want to look at buying matched sheets pre veneered, Saunders Wood Specialties in Park Falls, WI is a great resource. Talk to Amy Smith. They do lots of work for me and it is top notch and not cost prohibitive.
Feel free to contact me directly if you want to talk in more detail.
Jason Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
612 432-2765
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
|
I edge the panel before veneer with hardwood. Usually 3/16”-1/4” thick. If a very special project I miter the corners of the edging. I then veneer. This way the edges are super durable and will never peel or chip like wood edge banding can.?
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On Feb 2, 2024, at 8:40?AM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
? Hi Andy,
When you use the MDF core ply for doors, what is your edge-banding method?
I recently had three CVG Fir doors that I built, 18”x42”, and one of the plywood doors decided to warp on me a bit. ?The edge treatment was just the thin Fir edge-banding.?
Thx,
Wade
On Feb 2, 2024, at 5:47 AM, Andy <andy.raynor08@...> wrote:
? I just finished a job using slip matched rift white oak in 3/4 inch sheets. Luckily I found a supplier locally who carried sheets of it. They also had MDF core sheet that I used for the doors. Totally flat.? It was also matching grain on both sides.?
Saved me a ton of time getting it already on a sheet.? I think I paid 220$ a sheet. Right now just the veneer is 90$ at my veneer supplier. Never mind the substrate, balancing sheet(which would be another 90$ for matching grain) glue and time.?
If you are in the northeast check out Atlantic plywood. But I’m sure there are other options out there.?
On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 8:26?AM Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: Hi Storm, I did a rift white oak slab door and drawer front kitchen a few years ago. It's a really beautiful look.I ordered 10 sequence matched sheets of Europly from Columbia. The edges were not banded, but finished the same as the front and back. Saved a lot of work, but don't go this route. Lots of warping of the doors? Columbia will tell you never use any plywood for doors, MDF only. I'd follow that recommendation now after that painful experience.?
I'd encourage you to buy your veneer raw from Certainly Wood. They are a great company. Super nice helpful people, great selection and good pricing too. I don't like paper backed veneers, you always see that line unless you edge band veneering-but why would you do that? You have ultimate control over your matching and yield when doing it in house. Use good quality MDF like Ranger or Plum Creek, not the crap at Menards or Home Depot. Experience tells me that your 5/8" wide solid edge banding is too wide. It will telegraph through the face over time. Mine is never wider than 1/4" and I've had good success with that. I like the Unibond One and use it almost exclusively now, with the exception of the times when 800 is needed for open time or strength.
If you want to look at buying matched sheets pre veneered, Saunders Wood Specialties in Park Falls, WI is a great resource. Talk to Amy Smith. They do lots of work for me and it is top notch and not cost prohibitive.
Feel free to contact me directly if you want to talk in more detail.
Jason Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
612 432-2765
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
|
Andy & Joe,
Thx…I have local supplier that does offer MDF core in many of their higher end ply’s. There’s no doubt in my mind flatness is the goal for cabinet doors. ?I’m just wondering if there are any negatives to using MDF core plywood for cabinet doors? ?Glue holds up well over time? ?Fastening strength for hardware connections? ?Etc…
Thx,
Wade
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 2, 2024, at 8:00 AM, Andy <andy.raynor08@...> wrote:
? For this job I actually used hardwood for a micro shaker look on the doors.? I’ll look back in my photos to see if I have a picture of that finished detail. The edges are quartersawn white oak about 30mm. Then I used my Lamello to connect them to the panel.?
I’ve had luck however using traditional edge banding applied with a Festool conturo as well.? Hi Andy,
When you use the MDF core ply for doors, what is your edge-banding method?
I recently had three CVG Fir doors that I built, 18”x42”, and one of the plywood doors decided to warp on me a bit.? The edge treatment was just the thin Fir edge-banding.?
Thx,
Wade
? I just finished a job using slip matched rift white oak in 3/4 inch sheets. Luckily I found a supplier locally who carried sheets of it. They also had MDF core sheet that I used for the doors. Totally flat.? It was also matching grain on both sides.?
Saved me a ton of time getting it already on a sheet.? I think I paid 220$ a sheet. Right now just the veneer is 90$ at my veneer supplier. Never mind the substrate, balancing sheet(which would be another 90$ for matching grain) glue and time.?
If you are in the northeast check out Atlantic plywood. But I’m sure there are other options out there.?
On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 8:26?AM Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: Hi Storm, I did a rift white oak slab door and drawer front kitchen a few years ago. It's a really beautiful look.I ordered 10 sequence matched sheets of Europly from Columbia. The edges were not banded, but finished the same as the front and back. Saved a lot of work, but don't go this route. Lots of warping of the doors? Columbia will tell you never use any plywood for doors, MDF only. I'd follow that recommendation now after that painful experience.?
I'd encourage you to buy your veneer raw from Certainly Wood. They are a great company. Super nice helpful people, great selection and good pricing too. I don't like paper backed veneers, you always see that line unless you edge band veneering-but why would you do that? You have ultimate control over your matching and yield when doing it in house. Use good quality MDF like Ranger or Plum Creek, not the crap at Menards or Home Depot. Experience tells me that your 5/8" wide solid edge banding is too wide. It will telegraph through the face over time. Mine is never wider than 1/4" and I've had good success with that. I like the Unibond One and use it almost exclusively now, with the exception of the times when 800 is needed for open time or strength.
If you want to look at buying matched sheets pre veneered, Saunders Wood Specialties in Park Falls, WI is a great resource. Talk to Amy Smith. They do lots of work for me and it is top notch and not cost prohibitive.
Feel free to contact me directly if you want to talk in more detail.
Jason Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
612 432-2765
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
|
The oldest job I have using this style is about 5 years for my apartment building. The tenants are hard on them and they have held up.?
I use the Lamello for easy clamping and alignment of the hardwood edging. I’ve seen other jobs that just have edge banding and they look fine. I just think over time those edges will get dinged up. ?
As far as hardware goes, I’ve been happy with its performance for doors. Admittedly I’m a small shop so the sample size is also small.?
Andy & Joe,
Thx…I have local supplier that does offer MDF core in many of their higher end ply’s. There’s no doubt in my mind flatness is the goal for cabinet doors.? I’m just wondering if there are any negatives to using MDF core plywood for cabinet doors?? Glue holds up well over time?? Fastening strength for hardware connections?? Etc…
Thx,
Wade
? For this job I actually used hardwood for a micro shaker look on the doors.? I’ll look back in my photos to see if I have a picture of that finished detail. The edges are quartersawn white oak about 30mm. Then I used my Lamello to connect them to the panel.?
I’ve had luck however using traditional edge banding applied with a Festool conturo as well.? Hi Andy,
When you use the MDF core ply for doors, what is your edge-banding method?
I recently had three CVG Fir doors that I built, 18”x42”, and one of the plywood doors decided to warp on me a bit.? The edge treatment was just the thin Fir edge-banding.?
Thx,
Wade
? I just finished a job using slip matched rift white oak in 3/4 inch sheets. Luckily I found a supplier locally who carried sheets of it. They also had MDF core sheet that I used for the doors. Totally flat.? It was also matching grain on both sides.?
Saved me a ton of time getting it already on a sheet.? I think I paid 220$ a sheet. Right now just the veneer is 90$ at my veneer supplier. Never mind the substrate, balancing sheet(which would be another 90$ for matching grain) glue and time.?
If you are in the northeast check out Atlantic plywood. But I’m sure there are other options out there.?
On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 8:26?AM Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: Hi Storm, I did a rift white oak slab door and drawer front kitchen a few years ago. It's a really beautiful look.I ordered 10 sequence matched sheets of Europly from Columbia. The edges were not banded, but finished the same as the front and back. Saved a lot of work, but don't go this route. Lots of warping of the doors? Columbia will tell you never use any plywood for doors, MDF only. I'd follow that recommendation now after that painful experience.?
I'd encourage you to buy your veneer raw from Certainly Wood. They are a great company. Super nice helpful people, great selection and good pricing too. I don't like paper backed veneers, you always see that line unless you edge band veneering-but why would you do that? You have ultimate control over your matching and yield when doing it in house. Use good quality MDF like Ranger or Plum Creek, not the crap at Menards or Home Depot. Experience tells me that your 5/8" wide solid edge banding is too wide. It will telegraph through the face over time. Mine is never wider than 1/4" and I've had good success with that. I like the Unibond One and use it almost exclusively now, with the exception of the times when 800 is needed for open time or strength.
If you want to look at buying matched sheets pre veneered, Saunders Wood Specialties in Park Falls, WI is a great resource. Talk to Amy Smith. They do lots of work for me and it is top notch and not cost prohibitive.
Feel free to contact me directly if you want to talk in more detail.
Jason Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
612 432-2765
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
|
I have a rift ash kitchen with MDF core on all the fronts and end panels. It's a dozen years old at least and is holding?up well.
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Hi Jason,
Do you recall your edge-bending size for these fronts?
Thx,
Wade
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On Feb 2, 2024, at 10:27 AM, Jason Holtz <jholtzy@...> wrote:
? I have a rift ash kitchen with MDF core on all the fronts and end panels. It's a dozen years old at least and is holding?up well.
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Hi Wade, I usually glue on 1/4" strips and then fit from there. Around 1/8 is ideal for not telegraphing.?
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
What is this stuff , I think som kind of sign stuff very flat salvaged a bunch. Appears 7 or 8 ply for .75 phenolic face ?
 Designing and building for 50 years
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On Feb 2, 2024, at 5:46?PM, Jason Holtz <jholtzy@...> wrote:
? Hi Wade, I usually glue on 1/4" strips and then fit from there. Around 1/8 is ideal for not telegraphing.?
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Mac, that looks like mdo (medium density overlay) plywood that I bought a few times for sign work.?
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On Feb 4, 2024, at 11:44 AM, mac campshure via groups.io <mac512002@...> wrote:
? What is this stuff , I think som kind of sign stuff very flat salvaged a bunch. Appears 7 or 8 ply for .75 phenolic face ?
<IMG_3235.jpeg> Designing and building for 50 years On Feb 2, 2024, at 5:46?PM, Jason Holtz <jholtzy@...> wrote:
? Hi Wade, I usually glue on 1/4" strips and then fit from there. Around 1/8 is ideal for not telegraphing.?
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Mac, I don’t think that’s a phenolic surface, I think it’s Kraft paper. If so, the product is called, medium density overlay plywood, which is terrific for paint grade cabinetry. ?It’s flat and smooth with no voids in the surface of veneers under the Kraft paper. |
Jason Holtz
Joe Jensen
Dan Gavrilyuk
David P. Best
imran