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I was wondering if anyone has thoughts on automatic dovetailers.
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There are a few mindsets out there from what I have heard:
- Find a great local company to make them for you.? They can make them cheaper than you can.
- I use a template to make them with a router, I don't make enough to justify the cost.
- I make them all by hand (probably not that many on a place like the FOG)
- My local drawer companies do not deliver the quality that I want.
- My local company cannot match all of the types of woods I want to make the drawers out of.
- My time frames make it hard to use a local company to do the drawers.
My question is around if anyone has experience with different machine brands and the quality of each of them.? Specifically Omec, Dodds, ETC.
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I have a Northtech now that is basically a clone of a Cantek JDT-75, Laguna DT-18 and a few others.? My opinion of the Northtech is that it is competent.? I am gonna spend this weekend going deeper into it to see if I can further dial it in to make me happier with it.
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Any thoughts?
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PK
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Hey PK:
I have the Leigh dovetail jig as well as a Pantorouter that allows me to make dovetail drawers. This is fine for the occasional small batch of drawers when I am not crushed on time. For larger projects, I outsource my drawers to a local supplier that is close enough for me to pick up, so i save a ton on shipping. I pay about $40 per drawer depending on size, including finishing, and notching for Blum undermount slides. I just build the cost into my pricing. If I were churning out drawers on a regular basis I would consider (and have considered) a dedicated unit. Keep in mind if you're in this camp where speed/efficiency is your reason for going the dedicated route, you would also benefit from a drawer clamp and notcher to keep up with the part production -- and either of those units ain't cheap.
Kerry
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Kerry Smith
Gotham Woodworks
www.gothamwoodworks.com
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Kerry,
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All great points.? All three of those machines ain't cheap and they take up floor space too!?
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The Barth Multipress can make for a box clamp/clamp wall/door clamp and face frame clamp.? Those Barth accessories sure do add up though. And the wall takes up some serious space too.
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PK
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PK,
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????? What a great topic and I've asked those same questions myself. I often just use biscuits to join drawers together in certain circumstances. I have also found that if I make drawers myself, they do come out more square than if I go to a cheap company like Decorative Specialties and buy their dovetail drawers. But if I buy them from Deco or DBS ( a better quality LA area company) I do hate the wait and the raft of cardboard, plastic wrap and the wood pallet that I have to get rid of. Sometimes I get them to take the pallet if I can unwrap them quickly. I do have a Porter Cable jig and my first attempt at using it with Baltic birch ply was a disaster. I think it would have gone better if I was using 5/8" material and some other improvements. The other problems were my fault. There is a local company here that I'm sure makes great drawers, but the price is way more than other companies. Having said that, I'm just starting a large kitchen and whole house project and I'm thinking about trying them as the budget will allow it. I have also thought about getting a dedicated dovetail machine like a Grizzly, but I definitely have fears that it would be a mistake. I'm very curious to hear what others are doing.? Tom Ruth
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Now you can make 10 degree variable spaced through-dovetails, 3/8" and 3/4" box joints using PantoRouter with new ULTRA-SHEAR router bits made by Woodpeckers .
It is faster and easier, the result is really impressive.
James
PK,
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????? What a great topic and I've asked those same questions myself. I often just use biscuits to join drawers together in certain circumstances. I have also found that if I make drawers myself, they do come out more square than if I go to a cheap company like Decorative Specialties and buy their dovetail drawers. But if I buy them from Deco or DBS ( a better quality LA area company) I do hate the wait and the raft of cardboard, plastic wrap and the wood pallet that I have to get rid of. Sometimes I get them to take the pallet if I can unwrap them quickly. I do have a Porter Cable jig and my first attempt at using it with Baltic birch ply was a disaster. I think it would have gone better if I was using 5/8" material and some other improvements. The other problems were my fault. There is a local company here that I'm sure makes great drawers, but the price is way more than other companies. Having said that, I'm just starting a large kitchen and whole house project and I'm thinking about trying them as the budget will allow it. I have also thought about getting a dedicated dovetail machine like a Grizzly, but I definitely have fears that it would be a mistake. I'm very curious to hear what others are doing.? Tom Ruth
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If ROI isn’t an issue and you aren’t concerned about the maintenance on these machines I think it would be awesome to have one. But for me I’d have to be doing 100 plus boxes per month of dovetails to make money.?
I’m not. In fact my dovetail requests have gone way down.?
But I can see the appeal for sure.?
Andy?
PK,
?
????? What a great topic and I've asked those same questions myself. I often just use biscuits to join drawers together in certain circumstances. I have also found that if I make drawers myself, they do come out more square than if I go to a cheap company like Decorative Specialties and buy their dovetail drawers. But if I buy them from Deco or DBS ( a better quality LA area company) I do hate the wait and the raft of cardboard, plastic wrap and the wood pallet that I have to get rid of. Sometimes I get them to take the pallet if I can unwrap them quickly. I do have a Porter Cable jig and my first attempt at using it with Baltic birch ply was a disaster. I think it would have gone better if I was using 5/8" material and some other improvements. The other problems were my fault. There is a local company here that I'm sure makes great drawers, but the price is way more than other companies. Having said that, I'm just starting a large kitchen and whole house project and I'm thinking about trying them as the budget will allow it. I have also thought about getting a dedicated dovetail machine like a Grizzly, but I definitely have fears that it would be a mistake. I'm very curious to hear what others are doing.? Tom Ruth
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I finally broke down. I got a OMX 650 it’s not automatic, but it works really well.
Get
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
If ROI isn’t an issue and you aren’t concerned about the maintenance on these machines I think it would be awesome to have one. But for me I’d have to be doing 100 plus boxes per month of dovetails to make money.?
I’m not. In fact my dovetail requests have gone way down.?
But I can see the appeal for sure.?
Andy?
PK,
?
????? What a great topic and I've asked those same questions myself. I often just use biscuits to join drawers together in certain circumstances. I have also found that if I make drawers myself, they do come out more square than if I go to a cheap company
like Decorative Specialties and buy their dovetail drawers. But if I buy them from Deco or DBS ( a better quality LA area company) I do hate the wait and the raft of cardboard, plastic wrap and the wood pallet that I have to get rid of. Sometimes I get them
to take the pallet if I can unwrap them quickly. I do have a Porter Cable jig and my first attempt at using it with Baltic birch ply was a disaster. I think it would have gone better if I was using 5/8" material and some other improvements. The other problems
were my fault. There is a local company here that I'm sure makes great drawers, but the price is way more than other companies. Having said that, I'm just starting a large kitchen and whole house project and I'm thinking about trying them as the budget will
allow it. I have also thought about getting a dedicated dovetail machine like a Grizzly, but I definitely have fears that it would be a mistake. I'm very curious to hear what others are doing.? Tom Ruth
-- Michael Marsico
|
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I finally broke down. I got a OMX 650 it’s not automatic, but it works really well.
Get
If ROI isn’t an issue and you aren’t concerned about the maintenance on these machines I think it would be awesome to have one. But for me I’d have to be doing 100 plus boxes per month of dovetails to make money.?
I’m not. In fact my dovetail requests have gone way down.?
But I can see the appeal for sure.?
Andy?
PK,
?
????? What a great topic and I've asked those same questions myself. I often just use biscuits to join drawers together in certain circumstances. I have also found that if I make drawers myself, they do come out more square than if I go to a cheap company
like Decorative Specialties and buy their dovetail drawers. But if I buy them from Deco or DBS ( a better quality LA area company) I do hate the wait and the raft of cardboard, plastic wrap and the wood pallet that I have to get rid of. Sometimes I get them
to take the pallet if I can unwrap them quickly. I do have a Porter Cable jig and my first attempt at using it with Baltic birch ply was a disaster. I think it would have gone better if I was using 5/8" material and some other improvements. The other problems
were my fault. There is a local company here that I'm sure makes great drawers, but the price is way more than other companies. Having said that, I'm just starting a large kitchen and whole house project and I'm thinking about trying them as the budget will
allow it. I have also thought about getting a dedicated dovetail machine like a Grizzly, but I definitely have fears that it would be a mistake. I'm very curious to hear what others are doing.? Tom Ruth
--
Michael Marsico
-- Michael Marsico
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Michael,
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Those Omec's are really nice.? Is the build quality what they say it is?
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PK
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It is - took about a half a day to get it all set up, but I haven’t touched it since and now dovetails take me like no time whatsoever. The 650 is not automatic, though you just move with your hand.
Get
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Michael,
?
Those Omec's are really nice.? Is the build quality what they say it is?
?
PK
-- Michael Marsico
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Well I just made some dovetails with the Northtech.? Looks like I will be keeping her.? It was dialed in for 16mm thick sides and fronts.
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Sorry to have wasted any of your time!? It took 5 seconds to make a 5" drawer side.
?
Now I just have to get my lengths figured out.
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PK
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Show quoted text
Well I just made some dovetails with the Northtech.? Looks like I will be keeping her.? It was dialed in for 16mm thick sides and fronts.
?
Sorry to have wasted any of your time!? It took 5 seconds to make a 5" drawer side.
?
Now I just have to get my lengths figured out.
?
PK
-- Michael Marsico
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Paul, are you planning to go into full scale cabinet production? ?At the end of my latest Fusion 360 video on the cabinet design project, I discuss outsourcing dovetail drawer boxes and who I use. ?Here’s a link to that video starting at the part about who I use and why: ?https://youtu.be/z5w9B1A8bl8?t=1849
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Mar 22, 2025, at 3:35?PM, PK via groups.io <pk@...> wrote:
Well I just made some dovetails with the Northtech.? Looks like I will be keeping her.? It was dialed in for 16mm thick sides and fronts.
?
Sorry to have wasted any of your time!? It took 5 seconds to make a 5" drawer side.
?
Now I just have to get my lengths figured out.
?
PK
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David,
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Not planning on full scale anything!? Funny you call out Western dovetail as I am wearing their shirt right now!? I have ordered from them many times and they are the best outsourced drawer boxes I have ever used.? They are now set up on line so you do not need to used the form anymore BTW.?
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They aren't cheap, and that can be built into pricing of course, but the shipping is a bit crazy from Nor Cal to here.? I figure if I can do it myself, why not?? Timelines can be everything and could dictate something different, but based on what I just did, I think I can charge the cost of Western Dovetail in the quote and do it myself!
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PK??
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They aren't cheap, and that can be built into pricing of course, but the shipping is a bit crazy from Nor Cal to here.? I figure if I can do it myself, why not?? Timelines can be everything and could dictate something different, but based on what I just did, I think I can charge the cost of Western Dovetail in the quote and do it myself!
Since in your original post you asked for points of view, then I’ll elaborate a bit more:
I know you love to collect machines. ?I went through that phase as well: line boring, hinge-cup boring, square chisel mortiser, notcher, pocket-hole machine, spray finish rig and booth, and on and on. ?At some point you may realize that at low volumes, and with constrained stop space, it’s better to do the operations without the use of dedicated floor standing equipment, or to outsource - especially for commodity things like drawer boxes. ?And Western will send you unassembled boxes which SIGNIFICANTLY alters the cost of shipping - that would still leave you with plenty to do, including buying a Barth/Rangate frame press, Pizzi glue applicator, and spray finishing rig. ?LOL. ?IMO, you have to be considering serious production volume to justify a dedicated dovetailer. ?Just my 2 cents.?
Like some others have said here, I personally think dovetail drawer boxes are way overkill for most applications and more appropriate for heirloom/museum/competition work where time spent in production is not the top priority. ?But for many people, a dovetail drawer box ?is only thing they know to look at to convince themselves that the supplier is high quality. ?They look at dovetailed boxes made of melamine-coated particle board and say to themselves “this has to be good quality - just look at the joinery." ?Just as good functionally is a drawer-lock joint, especially when combined with through dowels, and while you can get a router bit that will do that joint for $50, I’m certain you could talk Rangate to making a custom shaper cutter set for you at something like $2K. ?:-)
And BTW, I don’t normally use the Western order forms except when their website doesn’t provide the options I need (like 3/8” bottoms). ?I now prefer to just send them my Fusion design files.?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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Good to know about Western dovetails. They are 60 miles from me. I’ll check if I can do a local pickup.?
Driving there will probably take less time than making them.
What is their turnaround time?
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Paul, 20 years ago when we were doing casework we bought a few drawers from Western Dovetail. They were good and the owner a character. He gave me a lot of good tips on building our own. Same thing, lead time and shipping was killing us so we made our own.
There is a local shop here that is over the top and working the Telluride market. He has a Omec CNC dovetailer that makes the spacing come out even. Pretty slick machine and very fast. I can put you in touch with him if you want.
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Joe,
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I just got a quote for one of those.? Yikes!
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For now, I am sticking with my bargain machine.
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PK
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Paul, I think your “bargain machine” is ideal for a shop your size. ?Loved your YouTube video - ?you even had me questioning whether I too need one of those. ?But I think I’ll hold off so I can add?to my hand tool collection..
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Mar 22, 2025, at 8:14?PM, PK via groups.io <pk@...> wrote:
Joe,
?
I just got a quote for one of those.? Yikes!
?
For now, I am sticking with my bargain machine.
?
PK
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PK
Kerryj_smith
David P. Best