Keyboard Shortcuts
ctrl + shift + ? :
Show all keyboard shortcuts
ctrl + g :
Navigate to a group
ctrl + shift + f :
Find
ctrl + / :
Quick actions
esc to dismiss
Likes
Search
Table saw blade noise
|
Geoff Shepherd
Another question for the group...
It seems to me that the saw on my BF6-31 is two or three times louder than a typical 10" cabinet saw. Most of the noise is a loud high-pitched wooshing of air, and both of my 12" blades (one a Felder, the other a Forrest) create about the same intensity of noise. The higher the blade is raised, the louder it gets. When it is lowered below the surface of the table, it is more tolerable, but that doesn't do much for cutting wood. Two other woodworking friends I have demo'd the machine for have commented, "man, that's loud" in regards to the table saw. So, this is all subjective, but it is quite noticeable. I was hoping it was just the Felder blade that was noisy, but was disappointed to find my new Forrest blade is just as loud. Is this just the nature of a 12" blade? Could it be that the saw is running 20% faster on 60 Hz power vs. 50 Hz, or is there a different pulley ratio for US-destined machines to compensate for this? ...Geoff |
|
Philip Tamarkin
My BF-5 runs quietly compared to my earlier cabinet saws, even with the
12" blades.? I've got the Felder standard universal and the fancy-schmantzy
"Silent Power" blades - the Silent Power (God, the marketing department
must stay up late thinking of these names!) is probably a tad quieter.?
Bought a Tenryu panel blade that I'm using currently, and highly recommend
- best blade I've ever used out of the box - similar volume to the others.?
If Felder doesn't modify the drive pulleys for 60hz/50hz they need to -
optimum blade speed should be right around 10,000 peripheral feet per minute
- much faster than that and you'll be doing more burning than cutting,
and will probably kill blades pretty quickly.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On reflection, I think your noise problem may be related to your local air - where do you live?? I'm in Mendocino county, and maybe the air here is thinner and causes less resistance to the blade!? Might also explain the plethora of air-heads that we have around here!!? -Philip Geoff Shepherd wrote: Another question for the group... |
|
Geoff Shepherd
Interesting... this saw runs with more noise than even my Shopsmith (in
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
table saw mode), which was louder than a good contractor's saw due to the variable speed Reeves drive system. Cutting performance on the BF6-31 has been satisfactory so far, just very noisy. The other way I've reduced the noise is by removing the blade entirely, but then I seem to have a problem with the kerf not forming at all. Not sure what's up with that. Here in the Seattle area the air is thick like good coffee. Maybe the blades just get all buzzed up with caffeine or something. I have considered modifying the clear crown guard with pivoting side guards to help contain the noise, offer additional protection, and provide a longer lifting ramp in front to ride up on approaching stock. On the other hand, if my saw is just running too fast, then that's patching the symptom rather than finding the cure. Given my sometimes preoccupation with quiet-running tools, I should probably go pick up one of those sound-level meters from Radio Shack. Either that or go completely Neanderthal... :-) ...Geoff ----- Original Message -----
From: Philip Tamarkin To: felder-woodworking@... Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 7:04 PM Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Table saw blade noise My BF-5 runs quietly compared to my earlier cabinet saws, even with the 12" blades. I've got the Felder standard universal and the fancy-schmantzy "Silent Power" blades - the Silent Power (God, the marketing department must stay up late thinking of these names!) is probably a tad quieter. Bought a Tenryu panel blade that I'm using currently, and highly recommend - best blade I've ever used out of the box - similar volume to the others. If Felder doesn't modify the drive pulleys for 60hz/50hz they need to - optimum blade speed should be right around 10,000 peripheral feet per minute - much faster than that and you'll be doing more burning than cutting, and will probably kill blades pretty quickly. On reflection, I think your noise problem may be related to your local air - where do you live? I'm in Mendocino county, and maybe the air here is thinner and causes less resistance to the blade! Might also explain the plethora of air-heads that we have around here!! -Philip |
|
Philip Tamarkin
If you're not getting a good kerf running the saw without a blade you need to raise the
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
splitter a bit - should sit about 1/4" below where the top of the blade would be if there was a blade there. I've got my saw set up with a nice overarm guard system (Excalibur...) that I've hung from the ceiling. it's got good dust collection, so maybe it sucks up noise along with the dust! I'll try running the saw tomorrow w/o the guard to see if it changes the noise levels... The Seattle thick fog explains everything. That stuff is dense! You might want to bring it into your shop in thin sheets to lessen the load on the saw... A smart guy with some measuring equipment for the pulleys and the ability to read the nameplate rpms on the sawmotor could probably figure out the arbor rpms pretty damn fast! Best, Philip Geoff Shepherd wrote: Interesting... this saw runs with more noise than even my Shopsmith (in |
|
Charlie Norton
My original machine was single phase and it was somewhat noisier than the 3
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
phase I have now. The scream of the blade through the air is the same, but the cabinet noise is much reduced. The air noise of the blade is very apparent with the Felder...I thought I was the only one who noticed. I used to have a Ryobi BT3000 which was very noisy. I got into the habit of wearing ear protection, so I haven't really been too sensitive to the sounds from the Felder. I would be surprised if Felder had not accounted for the fact that US machines are run from 60 Hz, what with the safety issues involved. -----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Shepherd <geoff@...> To: felder-woodworking@... <felder-woodworking@...> Date: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 6:45 PM Subject: [felder-woodworking] Table saw blade noise Another question for the group...a typical 10" cabinet saw. Most of the noise is a loud high-pitched wooshingcreate about the same intensity of noise. The higher the blade is raised, theit is quite noticeable. I was hoping it was just the Felder blade that wasfelder-woodworking-unsubscribe@...
|
|
Geoff,
Wow, here I thought it was the aroma of Tacoma that was making my blades run louder, but it's the air ehh. Actually I did find that the 12" blade running on the Felder has a noticeably more powerful sound to it than my old Delta 10". I believe the Felder runs at about 4000 RPM vs. 3600 RPM for most 10" saws which would account for the increased pitch in sound. I've found that I can cut faster and have a lot less tearout when cutting my morning bagel now with the Felder so the coffee is still hot when I get done. If you think that you are getting an excessively high pitched sound, you might want to use a dial indicator to check the run-out on your blades. The run-out or wobble as some call it, will increase blade sound enough to drive you out of the shop. I'm sure you are aware it's best to completely disconnected from the power source prior to checking the blades. If you find that there is no noticeable run-out the only other suggestion I have is to stuff a little more cotton into the old ear protectors because what you are hearing is an industrial saw at work. Re: Mortis Cutter Bits. I was thinking about checking Boeing surplus for cutters. A lot of times they have excess bins stuffed with end mills and such. philip tamarkin <tamarki-@...> wrote: original article: =219 If you're not getting a good kerf running the saw without a blade youneed to raise the splitter a bit - should sit about 1/4" below where the top of theblade would be if there was a blade there.(Excalibur...) that I've hung from the ceiling. it's got good dust collection, so maybe it sucksup noise along with the dust! I'll try running the saw tomorrow w/o the guard to see ifit changes the noise levels...might want to bring it into your shop in thin sheets to lessen the load on thesaw... ability to read the nameplate rpms on the sawmotor could probably figure out the arborrpms pretty damn fast! Best, Philip(in to thetable saw mode), which was louder than a good contractor's saw due BF6-31 hasvariable speed Reeves drive system. Cutting performance on the reduced thebeen satisfactory so far, just very noisy. The other way I've problemnoise is by removing the blade entirely, but then I seem to have a the bladeswith the kerf not forming at all. Not sure what's up with that. side guardsjust get all buzzed up with caffeine or something. a longerto help contain the noise, offer additional protection, and provide hand, iflifting ramp in front to ride up on approaching stock. On the other rathermy saw is just running too fast, then that's patching the symptom probablythan finding the cure. that orgo pick up one of those sound-level meters from Radio Shack. Either the 12"go completely Neanderthal... :-) fancy-schmantzyblades. I've got the Felder standard universal and the department must"Silent Power" blades - the Silent Power (God, the marketing Bought astay up late thinking of these names!) is probably a tad quieter. bestTenryu panel blade that I'm using currently, and highly recommend - Ifblade I've ever used out of the box - similar volume to the others. - optimumFelder doesn't modify the drive pulleys for 60hz/50hz they need to minute - muchblade speed should be right around 10,000 peripheral feet per willfaster than that and you'll be doing more burning than cutting, and local air -probably kill blades pretty quickly. iswhere do you live? I'm in Mendocino county, and maybe the air here explain thethinner and causes less resistance to the blade! Might also -----plethora of air-heads that we have around here!! -Philip ribe@...To Post a message, send it to: felder-woodworking@... |
|
Philip Tamarkin
...at 4000 rpm/12" blade, you're at 12,500+ peripheral ft/minute which is pretty fast.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Wouldn't you have to have pronounced run-out to make a real difference in noise? Possibility of a bad bearing transmitting and amplifying through the blade? Sympathetic vibration from something else on the machine resonating in sync w/the blade? Interesting problem! BTW, my saw is a single phase Rod Barton wrote: Geoff, |
|
My tablesaw noise doesn't sound extrordinarily loud. It does have a
"serious, industrial" powerful sound to it though. I also used to have a BT 3000, like Charlie, and it was anoyingly loud. I also got into the habit of wearing ear protectors, in reaction to many other horrendously loud tools, such as a bench top portable planner, Sears shop vac :( ,etc. My KF-7 is 3 phase, I haven't heard a single phase machine, that is interesting though, that there is a noise level difference. I think the ear protectors are a good habit, besides, when the nurse comes to tell me that my 80 year old son is in the lobby to visit me (he's 31 now), maybe I'll be able to hear her ;) Taylor "geoff shepherd" <geof-@...> wrote: original article: =213 Another question for the group...than a typical 10" cabinet saw. Most of the noise is a loud high-pitchedwooshing of air, and both of my 12" blades (one a Felder, the other a Forrest)create about the same intensity of noise. The higher the blade is raised, theis more tolerable, but that doesn't do much for cutting wood. Two other"man, that's loud" in regards to the table saw. So, this is all subjective,but it is quite noticeable. I was hoping it was just the Felder blade thatwas noisy, but was disappointed to find my new Forrest blade is just asloud. running 20% faster on 60 Hz power vs. 50 Hz, or is there a different pulleyratio for US-destined machines to compensate for this? |
|
Geoff Shepherd
Thick caffeinated air aside (hmm), I appreciate all your interesting and
varied responses once again. I do wear hearing and eye protection as a matter of habit. However, I still prefer quieter running tools for the sake of my own sanity and my good relations with my close neighbors. Once I finish insulating the shop, I won't feel quite as self-conscious about late-evening noise making. This evening, I managed to borrow a sound-level meter from a musician friend at work. Here are the results of measuring some of my shop equipment with the meter mounted on a tripod at operator position/ear height (or 1m as appropriate): Phasemaster MA-1, 60dB (manual states <70dB). Oil-lubed 26 gallon air compressor filling, 81dB. AF-22LN, 77dB (manual for original AF-22 states 82.5dB). Fein Turbo II vac, 68dB. BF6-31: Jointer, 77dB (manual states 78.8dB). Planer, 80dB (manual states 81.8dB). Saw, 98dB (manual states 83.7dB). Except for the saw, everything is reasonably close to what I expected. By the manual's numbers and my experience with other cabinet saws, I would expect the saw to sound not too much louder than the jointer or planer. Maybe it's the blades, or some other factor. ...Geoff |
|
Tom Gee
I've been reading this thread and have a few thoughts:
Motor speed: The motors' information plates on my KF-7X lists speeds for both 50Hz and 60Hz operation. It also lists two amperage figures. I presume that the larger of these is the maximum (locked rotor?) amperage and the other is the no load amperage. If I weren't 2500 miles from my shop, I'd include the all of these numbers here. However, I'm sure that they're listed on all of the newer machines. Maybe someone who has a machine close at hand could look and post the numbers. Drive pulleys: I seem to remember that the parts catalog lists different pulleys for 50Hz and 60Hz operation. In addition to being away from my shop, I'm also away from my parts catalog. I think that I'll have to start worrying Wolfgang again to see if I can get him to attempt to convince Felder to provide the parts catalog and owner's manual on CD-ROM in searchable PDF form... Just what the poor man needs, a computer geek as a customer. :-) Motor speeds: Although I can't quit remember the RPM figures on my Felder, I do remember that many motors of the type found on woodworking machines operate at 3450 RPM. I seem to remember that that's a 'magic' number in motor design, though I've completely forgotten why. TGee |
|
Charlie Norton
Wow...98dB is loud. I do not have a sound meter, but I can't imagine that
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
the saw on my machine is 18 dB louder than the planer. If the sound meter computes dBA, perhaps the higher pitch of the air whoosh noise registers a higher sound value for the same noise power out. Did you average several readings? I wonder if the saw measurement was made at a particularly loud location. -----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Shepherd <geoff@...> To: felder-woodworking@... <felder-woodworking@...> Date: Thursday, March 23, 2000 1:29 AM Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Table saw blade noise Thick caffeinated air aside (hmm), I appreciate all your interesting andfriend at work. Here are the results of measuring some of my shop equipment withfelder-woodworking-unsubscribe@...
|
|
Mark Rupersburg
Geoff;
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Wow, 98dB is loud -- maybe loud enough to get a visit from OSHA or the FAA. I think a jet at full-throttle is just a bit over 100 dB! Does the value change depending upon the position of the pickup? With a change in blades? Without a blade? When insulating, you may have to use a heavy material (like lead sheeting) in addition to typical fiberglass batting. Both dampen vibrations, but at different frequencies. Another technique used in sound-proofing buildings is to use 2 layers of drywall separated by strips of metal. If the numbers are correct, I think you've got a heck of a noise problem that's going to limit your hours of work. Good luck, Mark Shepherd wrote: Thick caffeinated air aside (hmm), I appreciate all your interesting and |
to navigate to use esc to dismiss