开云体育

ctrl + shift + ? for shortcuts
© 2025 Groups.io
  1. Felderownersgroup
  2. Topics

Slider support leg question #sawsetup

 

After reading lots of material on slider adjustments, I am about to dive in. I have the cast iron top on my K700 coplaner thanks to the LTW precision level. So my question regarding the slider support leg is?should I use it as an adjustment point along with the 2 sets of bolts on the machine frame??
It came with 2 support legs but seems like there is only room for 1.? The slider is 2500mm.
 

开云体育



On Dec 16, 2020, at 2:20 PM, Tony Rodoracio <trodoracio@...> wrote:

?After reading lots of material on slider adjustments, I am about to dive in. I have the cast iron top on my K700 coplaner thanks to the LTW precision level. So my question regarding the slider support leg is?should I use it as an adjustment point along with the 2 sets of bolts on the machine frame??
It came with 2 support legs but seems like there is only room for 1.? The slider is 2500mm.
<saw stand 1.jpg>
<saw.jpg>
 

I have the same on my K500 (2800mm) so I have place to put a leg at each end.

First of all, the legs are not a replacement for an additional bolt attachment for your slider to the base frame. You can only force the slider base up with the leg, but in no way you can force the slider base down. If that make sense.

Secondly, the leg will adjust the slider level at the other side. That is if you play with your outfeed leg as in your pictures, the infeed part of your slider will be affected. I got this information from the support and confirmed that it works this way with dial caliper and others.

There is so much you can do with those legs, I was not able to correct my slider to the level I wanted. However, if you put some heavy stuff on your slider it will avoid too much flex on it.

On my setup I use the legs to force the slider base up to the point it started to not be positive for the overall result and stopped here.

Bill
 

开云体育

I had no idea that K500 uses support legs on the slider base extrusion. I assume this is for longer sliders only.

Imran

On Dec 16, 2020, at 2:31 PM, Bill James via groups.io <xxrb2010@...> wrote:

?I have the same on my K500 (2800mm) so I have place to put a leg at each end.

First of all, the legs are not a replacement for an additional bolt attachment for your slider to the base frame. You can only force the slider base up with the leg, but in no way you can force the slider base down. If that make sense.

Secondly, the leg will adjust the slider level at the other side. That is if you play with your outfeed leg as in your pictures, the infeed part of your slider will be affected. I got this information from the support and confirmed that it works this way with dial caliper and others.

There is so much you can do with those legs, I was not able to correct my slider to the level I wanted. However, if you put some heavy stuff on your slider it will avoid too much flex on it.

On my setup I use the legs to force the slider base up to the point it started to not be positive for the overall result and stopped here.

Bill
 

Yes, the longest slider with the K500 comes with it.

Not sure how useful it is, but I put them on my saw.

Bill
 

I had no idea this saw came with support legs either. It was never mentioned by the salesperson.?

Good point on not being able to pull downward with the support leg, only push upward. So I guess I will proceed with just using the 2 sets of bolts on the machine base and set the leg to just make contact with the ground.
 

Tony,

If at the infeed side the slider is too high vs the cast iron, you can push the outfeed leg/slide base up and this will make the slider goes down at the infeed side. However, do not push it too much as you will have now your outfeed side too high vs the cast iron.

You can play a bit with it like a couple of thousand variation.

Bill
 

开云体育

slider calibration is detailed in survival guide. i could be wrong but my thought on these legs is that they are intended to prevent sagging of the base extrusion ends under load. i personally would do slider calibration with the legs neutrally snug to the floor. a key element of slider calibration is to remember that there is a carrier between the slider and the base and that is the only area of contact between the two. so if the slider is in the middle and let’s say you adjust infeed leg up to align it with cast iron. it will have an affect on the slider when the slider is pulled fully towards the infeed. this is when the carrier will be on infeed end of the base and the slider will be going uphill (to exaggerate) causing front of slider to rise and rear to dip. this is the reason, i personally would keep these legs neutral and perform calibration. if the base is straight, which it should be, one should not have to use these legs for calibration purposes.

here are the key elements of slider calibration. this is a complicated job, so to be clear following is just to hit the salient points and is not a detailed procedure to carry out a calibration. to illustrate this point, a full calibration starts with setting slider trajectory which is not even a part of this post.

1. there are either two or four pairs of adjustment bolts between chassis and slider base extrusion.

with slider in middle of travel:
1-a. use inside bolt (nearer to cast iron) to set slider edge near CI to the desired height above CI table.
1-b. use outside bolt to make slider coplaner to the CI.

now slide slider towards rear so that the carrier is in the middle of the rear 2 pairs of bolts. check height and coplanarity and adjust aa needed. repeat with slider pulled towards front such that the carrier is between the front 2 pairs of bolts.

Hope this helps.

Imran

On Dec 16, 2020, at 10:40 PM, Bill James via groups.io <xxrb2010@...> wrote:

?Tony,

If at the infeed side the slider is too high vs the cast iron, you can push the outfeed leg/slide base up and this will make the slider goes down at the infeed side. However, do not push it too much as you will have now your outfeed side too high vs the cast iron.

You can play a bit with it like a couple of thousand variation.

Bill

 

Imran is correct, the legs are the last step after you have fully tuned your slider with the 4 bolts on the frame.

On my saw (K500) after full calibration without any leg, I still had a variation of 6 thousand (+-3) with a full stroke. I was able to play with the legs to remove 1 to 2 thousand play. If I remember correctly, my slider is now 6 or so thousand above the cast iron to allow for this (+- 2/3) variation at full stroke. My goal was to reduce the variation and end up with 1 to 2 thousand above the cast iron at the lowest (no pinching).

Keep in mind this is a K500 that is much more flexible than a K700, which in turn is more flexible than a 900, which in turn I guess is more flexible than a Kappa.

Bill
 

开云体育

That leg on the K500 sliding table carriage is there to keep the machine from tipping over when the slider is fully extended. ?The chassis on the K500 is not large or heavy enough to push a long sliding table out to it’s end stroke with a big load on it. ? The same legs are used on the 940 and Kappa 400 with 12-foot slider.


On Dec 16, 2020, at 1:39 PM, Bill James via <xxrb2010@...> wrote:

Yes, the longest slider with the K500 comes with it.

Not sure how useful it is, but I put them on my saw.

Bill

 

开云体育

This might be a bit more helpful. ? The legs should only be brought up under the lower carriage to support the sliding table in the last 20 percent of travel each direction. ?And I mean “support” not “adjust”. ????

David Best

https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/





On Dec 16, 2020, at 8:26 PM, imranindiana via <imranindiana@...> wrote:

slider calibration is detailed in survival guide. i could be wrong but my thought on these legs is that they are intended to prevent sagging of the base extrusion ends under load. i personally would do slider calibration with the legs neutrally snug to the floor. a key element of slider calibration is to remember that there is a carrier between the slider and the base and that is the only area of contact between the two. so if the slider is in the middle and let’s say you adjust infeed leg up to align it with cast iron. it will have an affect on the slider when the slider is pulled fully towards the infeed. this is when the carrier will be on infeed end of the base and the slider will be going uphill (to exaggerate) causing front of slider to rise and rear to dip. this is the reason, i personally would keep these legs neutral and perform calibration. if the base is straight, which it should be, one should not have to use these legs for calibration purposes.

here are the key elements of slider calibration. this is a complicated job, so to be clear following is just to hit the salient points and is not a detailed procedure to carry out a calibration. to illustrate this point, a full calibration starts with setting slider trajectory which is not even a part of this post.

1. there are either two or four pairs of adjustment bolts between chassis and slider base extrusion.

with slider in middle of travel:
1-a. use inside bolt (nearer to cast iron) to set slider edge near CI to the desired height above CI table.
1-b. use outside bolt to make slider coplaner to the CI.

now slide slider towards rear so that the carrier is in the middle of the rear 2 pairs of bolts. check height and coplanarity and adjust aa needed. repeat with slider pulled towards front such that the carrier is between the front 2 pairs of bolts.

Hope this helps.

Imran

On Dec 16, 2020, at 10:40 PM, Bill James via <xxrb2010@...> wrote:

?Tony,

If at the infeed side the slider is too high vs the cast iron, you can push the outfeed leg/slide base up and this will make the slider goes down at the infeed side. However, do not push it too much as you will have now your outfeed side too high vs the cast iron.

You can play a bit with it like a couple of thousand variation.

Bill

 

Thank you all for the advice. I have the Survival Guide and have watched several videos. With only 2 sets of bolts to adjust, I feel ready for the challenge.

This forum is a great source of information!
 

So I have the slider adjusted to .005 above the cast iron table during 75% of its travel.? But when the slider is as far to the front of the blade as it will travel, the slider is .018 above the cast iron.?

The same at the other full extension although not quite as much due to the support leg.? Is this the best that I can hope for with only 4 bolts for adjustment?
 

Tony, maybe I'm just not getting it, but why would it matter how high the slider is above the cast iron as it slides unless you're cutting a groove or a dado?
Bill Bélanger


On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 9:33 AM Tony Rodoracio <trodoracio@...> wrote:
So I have the slider adjusted to .005 above the cast iron table during 75% of its travel.? But when the slider is as far to the front of the blade as it will travel, the slider is .018 above the cast iron.?

The same at the other full extension although not quite as much due to the support leg.? Is this the best that I can hope for with only 4 bolts for adjustment?

 

开云体育

Bill,
you answered you question. it is good to be aware of this exact info. i have about 6’ on my slider that are perfect. i uses this area for grooves and dados.

Tony,
i am not sure of the capability of a new machine but you likely are close. i looked at my notes from calibration of 10’ slider on K975. this is a used machine. i see 0.010” change at the very end of travel.

BTW, are you doing this with or without outrigger? it is best to do it without outrigger first and then check results with outrigger installed.

if you have not already look, from side of the slider, into the gap between the slider and its base to locate the bearing cage. you should be able to see a row of rollers. from your pic the base does not stick much in front so i would not mess with that (looks like you don’t have a leg installed there anyways). the base extrusion does stick out more in the rear. with awareness of where the bearing cage is you can decide, if raising the extrusion slightly via the leg would improve your situation. i have no clue how strong the leg holding mechanism is. i am not sure how strong you are but i would think what you can accomplish without using mechanical advantage is safe. we are talking about few mills. you certainly do not want to be lifting the machine and distorting the base extrusion. i am not sure what your manual says so check that out. may also be wise to check with Felder before doing any of this step. this is what i would try in your situation. i have no experience with legs in slider base so use this info as you think appropriate.

Imran

On Dec 18, 2020, at 11:46 AM, Bill Belanger <Bill@...> wrote:

?
Tony, maybe I'm just not getting it, but why would it matter how high the slider is above the cast iron as it slides unless you're cutting a groove or a dado?
Bill Bélanger

On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 9:33 AM Tony Rodoracio <trodoracio@...> wrote:
So I have the slider adjusted to .005 above the cast iron table during 75% of its travel.? But when the slider is as far to the front of the blade as it will travel, the slider is .018 above the cast iron.?

The same at the other full extension although not quite as much due to the support leg.? Is this the best that I can hope for with only 4 bolts for adjustment?

 

Bill,?

As Imran said, Grooves and dados will be different depths if cut where the table is higher.?

Imran,

Adjustments were made without the outrigger. I have not compared measurements with the outrigger on yet. I just purchased the outrigger cart with the 10% off and was waiting for it to show up before reinstalling it. That thing is a pain?
(literally) taking on and off by hand. Not young and strong anymore. The support leg did help a little, but as you said, I didn't want to distort the carriage with it. It is just snugged to the floor. The manual is pretty worthless in regards to the support leg and other things.? I made all adjustments with the table near the locked position since there are only 4 bolts to adjust.
 

开云体育

Tony,

i have a cheap HF electric hoist that i use to lift outrigger among other things.

Make sure you document your calibration #s. if things change with outrigger that will guide you. outrigger pivot axle can be adjusted if needed.

Imran
PS: here is not a great pic to take slider measurements at 3 locations at once. I took measurements at 6 points along the travel of 10’ slider.



On Dec 18, 2020, at 2:52 PM, Tony Rodoracio <trodoracio@...> wrote:

?Bill,?

As Imran said, Grooves and dados will be different depths if cut where the table is higher.?

Imran,

Adjustments were made without the outrigger. I have not compared measurements with the outrigger on yet. I just purchased the outrigger cart with the 10% off and was waiting for it to show up before reinstalling it. That thing is a pain?
(literally) taking on and off by hand. Not young and strong anymore. The support leg did help a little, but as you said, I didn't want to distort the carriage with it. It is just snugged to the floor. The manual is pretty worthless in regards to the support leg and other things.? I made all adjustments with the table near the locked position since there are only 4 bolts to adjust.

 
Edited

This is what I tried to explain,

It looks like the weight of the sliding table only make the infeed side going up to 0.018 when the sliding table is fully extended on the outfeed side. You can use the outfeed leg support to push back the under support a little at the outfeed location (you have a short base, so there is some flex). Put a dial on this location where you want to push the support leg up and another where you have your 0.018. As long as you push the leg up and the dial indicator on the outfeed side under the leg does not move and the other dial is showing a reduction from 0.018, you should be all good. As soon as you see the dial above the leg or close to it going up, then you are starting to distort your stuff. This is my own understanding on how it works. If I remember correctly the support said that for my K500, 0.008 or 0.015 overall difference at full stroke is what is warranted. Ask the support to know what is warranted with your saw, and as long as you are in those figures, you are good to go or you can try to get it better.

I know David said, it is support only, but the question is how do you setup it up for support?only? You cannot do so by just looking at it as we are talking 0.001 changes. In your case and in mine, the base support has too much flex and I guess the support legs are sold with it for this reason in addition to avoid flip over if too much weight at full extension.

Bill
 

开云体育


I know David said, it is support only, but the question is how do you setup it up for support?only? You cannot do so by just looking at it as we are talking 0.001 changes. In your case and in mine, the base support has too much flex and I guess the support legs are sold with it for this reason in addition to avoid flip over if too much weight at full extension.

I never said the leg was for “support only.” ?What I said was that it was primarily used (and necessary) to keep the machine from falling face forward when the sliding table was fully extended with a heavy load on it. ?Without that leg, the machine would be terribly unsafe.

Yes, of course that leg can have an influence on the sliding table height alignment as well. ? Whether that adjustment is absolutely required to get decent performance is a matter of conjecture. ?Personally, I would never buy a saw that required that kind of support leg - it really complicates the setup and adjustment, and is a trip hazard. ?Just my opinion, but I have consistently advised users against buying such a configuration - especially for the 12-foot slider on the larger machines. ?Imagine trying to dial in a 12-foot slider with 8 adjustment studs AND two legs.

The effect you are describing, where the adjustments points are counterintuitive when the sliding table is at it’s extreme travel limits is fully described in this video, and applies equally to the leg supporting an extended lower carriage: ??? ?Also documented here: ??


David Best

https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
 

On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 07:20 PM, david@... wrote:
Personally, I would never buy a saw that required that kind of support leg
100% agree, if I had to redo it, I would go with the extended base and not the short base. On the explanation, I thought I explained what you have in your video but for the other side. Or what you have in your picture at the bottom.

Your video applied to the bottom image in your picture is what I tried to explain.

Bill

1 - 20 of 21