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Looking at FELDER Dual 51

 

I am looking at buying the Dual 51 JP combo new from FELDER. My question is this, has anyone bought one of these recently and if so do you have any objections or recommendations? Any unbiased information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.?
 

Hi Jim,?
?
David Best has researched this topic extensively and would be able to provide an insightful response on the pros- and cons- of the Felder combination machines.?
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There are a handful of users here who have the SCM FS-7 and seem to really like it.?
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I am using the SCM FS-52es and I really like it. It has the same capacity as the FS-7, but with less complexity. My machine has the Tersa head and I prefer it to the spiral heads. ?
?
Best wishes on your machine journey,
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
Mike D.
 

Jim:
I have the AD951, probably 5 years now. During this time, I¡¯ve pushed it hard, with rough sawn hardwoods; often running Jatoba and purple heart. The machine serves me well. My sense is that it is a better planer than jointer, though this is just an impression I have.

The power drive is precise. I¡¯ve added extensions to the planer bed. Dust collection is good, though I dislike having to changeover the dust hood position when changing over the function. Also, the fence is Cumbersome, with it¡¯s side attachment point, and setting a miter is functional, but inelegant and?without a fine adjustment. As with other Felder equipment I own, I feel that most?elements are professional grade and well thought out, while others seem oddly?lacking.

If I was in the market again, I would look at what?Martin has to offer (if only to rule it out for this or that reason) ?-?my understanding is that Griggio?makes a machine?for them),?then the SCM machines. I have no knowledge of either of these. The thought of going separates is ever-present, but never wins against space and cost.

Mike D.




On Saturday, December 28, 2024, 14:46, Jim Synyard via groups.io <Jimsynyard@...> wrote:

I am looking at buying the Dual 51 JP combo new from FELDER. My question is this, has anyone bought one of these recently and if so do you have any objections or recommendations? Any unbiased information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.?

--
Mike D.
Annapolis, MD
AD951; K700S; N4400
 

Thank you Mike. Your information is very much appreciated!
 

Thank you Tom!
 

Jim,
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I had an AD-941 and really liked it.? I was able to sell it for what I paid for it and wanted a 20" machine.
?
I decided to get the SCM L'invincible FS 7 in January of 2022 and it was delivered in February of 2023.? It is a joy to use.
?
PM me with any questions.
?
PK
 

Hi Jim,
?
I bought a new Dual 51 about 2 years ago, sold it after about 15 months and went to separate machines.
I believe the dual 51 is a good solid machine. Mine had a 10hp motor, Aigner fence, spiral head and digi drive. But like any combo it has its drawbacks, mainly for me was the switch over, jointer adjustments and the short beds, especially if you work with long material.
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I¡¯d recommend the digi drive, you can enter a measurement hit enter and walk away. It also helps when you have to lower the planer bed to 10¡± to flip the dust collection hood. The carbide inserts last forever, I¡¯ve never planned anything fancy though! Also I¡¯d recommend the segmented infeed roller, mine didn¡¯t have it and was annoying feeding different thickness material.
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Hope this helps,?
Declan
?
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi Jim:

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I know you asked for ¡°recent¡± owner experience. My Dual 51 was bought new almost 20 years ago now. It has some amazing features, and some not so good features. Overall I have been happy with the machine.

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In brief, the key aspects of the machine which are NOT amazing have to do with the table design issues as outlined by David Best. The jointer/surfacing tables do not hold calibration and have to be recalibrated at least once a year if not more often.

?

If you proceed to buy one, I strongly recommend you purchase the Digidrive option. It seems expensive but very few people actually have it, and do not know what it really is. In brief, it is an electronic interface that allows the following:

?

  • Short-cut programming that moves the thicknesser table to a parked position for changing machine modes. I do not have to stand by and turn a knob or hold a button or wind a wheel. I press one of the programmable function buttons and let the machine do its thing (usually while I fuss with changing over the dust extraction flex).

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  • I can enter an exact number and have the thicknesser table move to that position. For example, if I want 21.0mm I can enter that, and the table will move to that number by itself. Again, no standing around waiting for it to finish moving (usually I¡¯m picking up my board for machining, and getting ready to feed it).

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  • In addition to the ¡®absolute¡¯ mode mentioned above, when batch machining rough stock to a final thickness I have multiple programmable function buttons that allow for ¡®incremental¡¯ positioning of the thicknesser table. For example, if I have a board that is 25mm thick and I want it to be 19mm thick, I can first enter say 23mm in absolute mode and then hit start. The table moves to 23mm ready to feed the stock through, removing 2mm of material in so doing.

?

With an old-school thicknesser, after receiving the board (now 23mm thick) I used to walk back to the in-feed side, rotate the up/down wheel a bit for the next pass and proceed. With Powerdrive, of course this process is a bit easier because the knob can be turned briefly and the user can see how much the table moves. But as we all know, it takes a bit of practice to hit the intended 23mm, and doing this while holding stock is not always easy. In particular, if the stock is long and heavy, I would not like this process. Once or twice maybe, but not fifty times for a big machining session.

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The key benefit of Digidrive is the programmable presets. By selecting incremental mode, I can press one of the function keys: F1 (1mm), F2 (2mm) or F3 (3mm), or whatever you want ¨C that¡¯s just what I¡¯ve got them programmed to ¨C and the table moves up by one of those amounts while I am moving the stock into position for the next pass. So, I feed the stock (e.g. now 23mm), retrieve it from the out-feed side, hit start (F2 is already selected previously), the table automatically moves to 21mm, feed stock, hit start, the table automatically moves to 19mm, feed stock.

?

?????????????? The time savings here is substantial.

??????????????? The convenience is huge.

???????????????

I know of no other machine on the market with this kind of system. Martin certainly does not have it. I don¡¯t know about

SCM but would love to know.

?

Cheers.

?

Warm regards,

Lucky

?

Dr David Luckensmeyer

Designer & Maker

@luckensmeyer

M: 0413 013 115

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of PK via groups.io <pk@...>
Date: Sunday, 29 December 2024 at 16:19
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Looking at FELDER Dual 51

Jim,

?

I had an AD-941 and really liked it.? I was able to sell it for what I paid for it and wanted a 20" machine.

?

I decided to get the SCM L'invincible FS 7 in January of 2022 and it was delivered in February of 2023.? It is a joy to use.

?

PM me with any questions.

?

PK
 

Lucky,
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The L'invincible FS 7 has SCM's version of Digi-Drive.? It is the only J/P combo from SCM with it.? It is called Ready 3.? You do not need to lower the bed if it is 25mm or more.
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Here is my video on it:
?
?
This is the video on the FS 7:
?
?
PK
?
?
 

I don't have experience with the Dual51, but when I wanted to upgrade my Hammer A3-31 earlier this year I checked the spec of both the Dual51 and the SCM equivalent.
I liked the advantage of the SCM:
  • parallelogram design, that suppose to keep calibration better than the pin post.
  • You only need to lower the table to 25mm and not ~8"
  • You don't need to change the hose location. I.E. significantly shorter change over time.
?
I initially ordered the SCM FS52 back in May (2024), with delivery in September (2024). I was at IWF in August and investigated the L'invincible FS 7 they had there.
I decided to cancel the FS-52 order and order the ?L'invincible FS 7 instead. It should arrive to LA port any day now.
The main reasons:
  • The Ready3 mechanism looks really nice
  • It has a EURO guard (I don't like the pork chop guard) and anyway had to spend and extra ~$1k to get the euro guard from SCM or ~$2K for the suvamatic
  • with the IWF promotion and the euro guard the price difference between the machines wasn't that big.
  • It is slightly larger - 60mm for the jointer bed and 125mm for the planer bed
  • overall better finish
 

Hi Jim,?
?
One nice feature of the SCM machines is that the dust chute remains on one side of the machine, so it simplifies ducting and makes transitioning from one function to the other easier.?
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My FS-52es came stock with an electronic adjustment for the planer bed, with a simple "Up" and "Down" adjustment, and digital readout.?
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I'll go against the grain a little here and say that I would have ordered an all-manual machine if SCM had one in stock, owing mostly to my skepticism of sourcing electronics decades after a purchase.?
?
If you do opt for a SCM machine with the simple "up/down" buttons, I will share that they are straightforward to use, and I don't find them to be an issue when milling lumber.?
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On the FS-52es, you need to lower the thickness planer bed to 80mm in order to convert to jointer.?
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I did not like the "pork chop" guard which shipped with my FS-52es, so I retrofitted a SuvaMatic guard and I just love it.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
 

Hey PK,
?
Great videos, I definitely prefer the L7 but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be available anywhere in stock and it's for my business and i can't wait months for it. I have a couple SCM machines which are ok (not perfect) but I love their l'Invincible line. Any ideas where I can get one? Thanks again for your response.?
-Jim
 

Hi Tom,
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Thank you very much for your candid feedback. Availability seems to be the issue right now with these SCM machines.?
?
-Jim?
 

Any idea where I can get one, :)? Thank you for the information and feedback.
?
Jim
 

Jim,
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Unfortunately the FS7 is a machine that is built per order, so you¡¯ll need to wait ~6 months to get one.
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FS-52 should be more available, but it is still a machine that runs out of stock quickly.
I would contact Sam Blasco and inquire about the machines availability.
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For the Dual-51 availability, you probably should reach out to your local sales rep, depending on where do you live.
?
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi PK:

Thanks so much for your video. It¡¯s well done! I see the SCM electronics are very sophisticated. There¡¯s a fair bit more programming ability in it, when compared to Digidrive.?

Maybe there¡¯s one point of difference in favour of the Felder offering? Maybe, but probably not. When using the incremental mode, I need to press a single button as I walk by from out-feed to in-feed, for the planer table to move to the next position. Is it the same for you?

Regardless, it seems clear that your machine is superior. Particularly for maintaining calibration of the jointer tables, and the fast changeover process. You were very generous with your ¡°6 seconds¡±; it looked crazy fast/easy!

I really don¡¯t have space for separates and I was unsure what I¡¯d buy if/when my Dual 51 kicks the bucket. SCM would be very hard to beat.?

Thanks again.?

Warm regards,
Lucky

Dr David Luckensmeyer?
Designer & Maker
@luckensmeyer
M: 0413 013 115

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of PK via groups.io <pk@...>
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2024 1:48:03 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Looking at FELDER Dual 51
?
Lucky,
?
The L'invincible FS 7 has SCM's version of Digi-Drive.? It is the only J/P combo from SCM with it.? It is called Ready 3.? You do not need to lower the bed if it is 25mm or more.
?
Here is my video on it:
?
?
This is the video on the FS 7:
?
?
PK
?
?
 

Thanks again for the information. Do you think the newer Dual 51's have inproved over the older version in both set up time and the issues with the bed calibration?
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The one I am looking at is the loaded version with the digi drive and seg rollers. I am indeed of something quick, I did find a SCM 630 with xylent head and a nova 520 if I wanted to go seperates. I love the idea of the space savings offered with the Dual 51 but don't want to regret buying it. I am currently a one man shop but process a fair share of rough cut.?
 

Lucky,
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There is one difference, It takes two button presses to engage the programmed features.? You press the program and then the blue lit button.? For some options it takes three - function, execute then the blue lit button.
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I watched the video and realized my quality control on the video was poor - I have re-done the main video and I will re-do the secondary one as well.? Probably post the first one in a few hours after it renders and uploads.
?
PK
 

Hi Jim,?
?
When I ordered my FS-52es, Sam Blasco said that SCM North America usually tries to keep one or two in stock, so if you need something in a hurry I think it would be worth a call to see what is in stock, and/or what may already be on a ship and arriving soon.?
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Have you considered a 410mm machine? The FS-41es and FS-52es are essentially identical, other than width of cutterblock. If you want/need something in a hurry, that may be a worthwhile option, and if you outgrow the -41es you should be able to sell it without much fuss....?
?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
 

If you go separate, the Felder line is also worth checking out. The D951 looks like a super nice machine. I know the Felder jointer doesn¡¯t have the single post limitation.?

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