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I came across this scroll type compressor on a Youtube video and was rather impressed with lack of noise and CFM output:?
I would love to try one someday to see how it really performs.?
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If you still are considering a Kaeser, ?ask about the cost of the recommended routine maintenance.
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Tom:
I’m going to pile in and strongly recommend against scroll/screw, etc. style compressors. I’ve wasted money on two European units (albeit not Kaeser) but still very high quality machines.?
The first one destroyed itself after water leaked through and seized the compressor. I was “smarter” the second time around and installed an Italian rotary screw machine with a timer to run the machine every day for 30 mins. Still not good enough. After 18 months, with factory servicing every 6 months, water had sufficiently mixed with the oil to corrode the screw so that it was making horrible scraping noises at 18 months. The company agreed to take the machine back at a very significant loss to them, and gave me (at a much reduced price) a two stage piston oiler that has been working nicely for the last couple of years.?
Do not be lured by the quiet compressors. They need to run nearly constantly to work well in the long term. I wasted approx $10k AUD to learn that lesson.?
4-5kW compressors are generally recognised as plenty. The separate dryer should be matched to CFM output which is usually around 15 for this size. I didn’t pull the trigger but I recall they recommended a 1.5HP single phase dryer to go with my 4kW (5.5HP) compressor. There really is no need for the all-in-one style (Kaeser).
I have 550L of receiver (tank size) simply because my RL250 pulsed air cleaning system is an air-piggy.
Hopefully this helps.?
Cheers.?
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On 18 Jul 2020, at 11:10 am, Tom Morris <morrist@...> wrote:
?Recommendations on motor size? Separate dryer?
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Thanks for all the information, I was ready to spend 9k on a Kaeser. I’m going to look for a separate dryer.
?Thanks,
Tom Morris
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I purchased a Saylor-Beall 80gal/5HP about 6 years ago and it has been great. ?The low RPM, 2 stage is a litter quite too.
-Joe
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I've seen the noise issue mentioned several times but plumbing the intake out side only once.? So I will repeat. It helps.? It and can be easy too if near an exterior wall that is not near a neighbor.
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Yes, you have to have air flow around the compressor and the electric motor.
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Jason, ? The heat would kill the compressor? Dave Davies On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 9:29 PM Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: Tom, I have a 80 gallon, 5 HP with a separate dryer. This is in a 4000 foot coop shop with 6 people potentially working at once. It does the job well. Ours isn't the quietest, but we built an enclosure that helps quite a bit. Not fully enclosed, that would kill it says my neighbor. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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What do you plan to run with air? Too open ended of a question without some idea of what you want to do.
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On Jul 17, 2020, at 6:09 PM, Tom Morris < morrist@...> wrote:
Recommendations on motor size? Separate dryer?
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I know a few machine shop guys running that compressor with good success. It makes a load hissing noise when it unloads and stops, that’s been the major complaint.
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On Jul 17, 2020, at 8:37 PM, Sang Luu < sangluu@...> wrote:
I came across this scroll type compressor on a Youtube video and was rather impressed with lack of noise and CFM output:?
I would love to try one someday to see how it really performs.?
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And I’m pretty sure you void the warranty if you change the oil and filters yourself, not that it can’t be done, you just loose the warranty. Last I heard was $600 or more for normal maintenance.
I seriously considered a Kaeser given I run my CNC mill and it makes my 5hp compressor run fairly often, but I calculated the cfm per hour and it isn’t anywhere close to making a Kaeser stay on the required amount of time. I’ll keep my eyes open for a used Jun or Sil-Air and go that route for noise savings.
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If you still are considering a Kaeser, ?ask about the cost of the recommended routine maintenance.
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Brian,
I’m in the process of expanding my basement shop and I thought it would be a good idea to upgrade my compressor. I have to admit that the Kaeser brochure ?is very good and I liked the idea of quiet and built-in dryer. I’ve been thinking for awhile I should have better air for my Martin tools other than just an in-line water separator. My current Quincy 20 gallon tank is doing fine for my Al-Ko 200 dust collector. I’ve thought about adding spray equipment in my new space.
I have an addiction to expensive equipment but don’t want to throw money away on something that might only work a few years. It’s obvious I need to do more research, that’s where I get so much benefit out of this group.
?Thanks,
Tom Morris
|
Hi Tom,
Better air is easy to accomplish with a dryer and then a filter, the compressor is really not the problem. What is the CFM of your current Quincy? A larger storage tank might be all that is necessary if the pump has adequate CFM delivery.
I have a 5hp 60 Gallon upright Ingersol Rand compressor, it’s not bad, but it’s one of their “cheaper” consumer grade compressors, has an aluminum pump instead of cast iron, so it’s noisy. If I’m spraying (HVLP conversion gun) or using air tools (my favorite sander is a Dynabrade 5” RO air sander, and my deburr gun is an AirTurbine pencil grinder) then even this compressor at 17cfm is cutting it a little close. My CNC mill needs about 3-4cfm for tool changes and coolant spraying, so I could/can run it or any of my other woodworking machines with a small 5CFM compressor. My little 2hp Hitachi hot dog compressor will keep up with those, but I can’t stand the noise.
My suggestion would be a 5hp quiet, two stage compressor with a 60-80 gallon tank, and then find a smaller, super quiet compressor and plumb both compressors into the same tank. Then add a refrigerated dryer with automatic drain and a filter unit after the tanks. This way you can run the silent compressor 99% of the time and kick on the big compressor when you want to do any spraying or run out of capacity for some reason.
I used to suggest the California Air Tools compressors, but I almost lost the whole shop to one of those. Relief valve stuck and was purging the tank and it made the compressor run continuously, I was in the house and came out to a shop filled with smoke and probably just minutes from a fire. So unless you are religious about turning off the compressor every time you leave the shop, I wouldn’t recommend one of them.
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On Jul 18, 2020, at 8:53 AM, Tom Morris < morrist@...> wrote:
Brian,
I’m in the process of expanding my basement shop and I thought it would be a good idea to upgrade my compressor. I have to admit that the Kaeser brochure ?is very good and I liked the idea of quiet and built-in dryer. I’ve been thinking for awhile I should have better air for my Martin tools other than just an in-line water separator. My current Quincy 20 gallon tank is doing fine for my Al-Ko 200 dust collector. I’ve thought about adding spray equipment in my new space.
I have an addiction to expensive equipment but don’t want to throw money away on something that might only work a few years. It’s obvious I need to do more research, that’s where I get so much benefit out of this group.
?Thanks,
Tom Morris
|
Brian, good to know on the cal air I have a small 10 gal and it is pretty quiet. I turn it off everytime I leave the shop except when I forget...
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On Jul 18, 2020, at 12:14 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
? Hi Tom,
Better air is easy to accomplish with a dryer and then a filter, the compressor is really not the problem. What is the CFM of your current Quincy? A larger storage tank might be all that is necessary if the pump has adequate CFM delivery.
I have a 5hp 60 Gallon upright Ingersol Rand compressor, it’s not bad, but it’s one of their “cheaper” consumer grade compressors, has an aluminum pump instead of cast iron, so it’s noisy. If I’m spraying (HVLP conversion gun) or using air tools (my favorite sander is a Dynabrade 5” RO air sander, and my deburr gun is an AirTurbine pencil grinder) then even this compressor at 17cfm is cutting it a little close. My CNC mill needs about 3-4cfm for tool changes and coolant spraying, so I could/can run it or any of my other woodworking machines with a small 5CFM compressor. My little 2hp Hitachi hot dog compressor will keep up with those, but I can’t stand the noise.
My suggestion would be a 5hp quiet, two stage compressor with a 60-80 gallon tank, and then find a smaller, super quiet compressor and plumb both compressors into the same tank. Then add a refrigerated dryer with automatic drain and a filter unit after the tanks. This way you can run the silent compressor 99% of the time and kick on the big compressor when you want to do any spraying or run out of capacity for some reason.
I used to suggest the California Air Tools compressors, but I almost lost the whole shop to one of those. Relief valve stuck and was purging the tank and it made the compressor run continuously, I was in the house and came out to a shop filled with smoke and probably just minutes from a fire. So unless you are religious about turning off the compressor every time you leave the shop, I wouldn’t recommend one of them.
On Jul 18, 2020, at 8:53 AM, Tom Morris < morrist@...> wrote:
Brian,
I’m in the process of expanding my basement shop and I thought it would be a good idea to upgrade my compressor. I have to admit that the Kaeser brochure ?is very good and I liked the idea of quiet and built-in dryer. I’ve been thinking for awhile I should have better air for my Martin tools other than just an in-line water separator. My current Quincy 20 gallon tank is doing fine for my Al-Ko 200 dust collector. I’ve thought about adding spray equipment in my new space.
I have an addiction to expensive equipment but don’t want to throw money away on something that might only work a few years. It’s obvious I need to do more research, that’s where I get so much benefit out of this group.
?Thanks,
Tom Morris
|
That was my problem, I forgot…. loved that it was quiet… but never had any other compressor that would cause that sort of problem.
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Brian, good to know on the cal air I have a small 10 gal and it is pretty quiet. I turn it off everytime I leave the shop except when I forget... On Jul 18, 2020, at 12:14 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
? Hi Tom,
Better air is easy to accomplish with a dryer and then a filter, the compressor is really not the problem. What is the CFM of your current Quincy? A larger storage tank might be all that is necessary if the pump has adequate CFM delivery.
I have a 5hp 60 Gallon upright Ingersol Rand compressor, it’s not bad, but it’s one of their “cheaper” consumer grade compressors, has an aluminum pump instead of cast iron, so it’s noisy. If I’m spraying (HVLP conversion gun) or using air tools (my favorite sander is a Dynabrade 5” RO air sander, and my deburr gun is an AirTurbine pencil grinder) then even this compressor at 17cfm is cutting it a little close. My CNC mill needs about 3-4cfm for tool changes and coolant spraying, so I could/can run it or any of my other woodworking machines with a small 5CFM compressor. My little 2hp Hitachi hot dog compressor will keep up with those, but I can’t stand the noise.
My suggestion would be a 5hp quiet, two stage compressor with a 60-80 gallon tank, and then find a smaller, super quiet compressor and plumb both compressors into the same tank. Then add a refrigerated dryer with automatic drain and a filter unit after the tanks. This way you can run the silent compressor 99% of the time and kick on the big compressor when you want to do any spraying or run out of capacity for some reason.
I used to suggest the California Air Tools compressors, but I almost lost the whole shop to one of those. Relief valve stuck and was purging the tank and it made the compressor run continuously, I was in the house and came out to a shop filled with smoke and probably just minutes from a fire. So unless you are religious about turning off the compressor every time you leave the shop, I wouldn’t recommend one of them.
On Jul 18, 2020, at 8:53 AM, Tom Morris < morrist@...> wrote:
Brian,
I’m in the process of expanding my basement shop and I thought it would be a good idea to upgrade my compressor. I have to admit that the Kaeser brochure ?is very good and I liked the idea of quiet and built-in dryer. I’ve been thinking for awhile I should have better air for my Martin tools other than just an in-line water separator. My current Quincy 20 gallon tank is doing fine for my Al-Ko 200 dust collector. I’ve thought about adding spray equipment in my new space.
I have an addiction to expensive equipment but don’t want to throw money away on something that might only work a few years. It’s obvious I need to do more research, that’s where I get so much benefit out of this group.
?Thanks,
Tom Morris
|
it is funny you mention the stuck relief valve. yesterday i used my baby ?california air 1 gal to air up the tires. as i picked it up and walked around i almost crapped due to a sudden large noise. i realized that I had accidentally bumped the relief valve. maybe they overcompensated for their problem.
imran?
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On Jul 18, 2020, at 12:45 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote: ? That was my problem, I forgot…. loved that it was quiet… but never had any other compressor that would cause that sort of problem.
Brian, good to know on the cal air I have a small 10 gal and it is pretty quiet. I turn it off everytime I leave the shop except when I forget... On Jul 18, 2020, at 12:14 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
? Hi Tom,
Better air is easy to accomplish with a dryer and then a filter, the compressor is really not the problem. What is the CFM of your current Quincy? A larger storage tank might be all that is necessary if the pump has adequate CFM delivery.
I have a 5hp 60 Gallon upright Ingersol Rand compressor, it’s not bad, but it’s one of their “cheaper” consumer grade compressors, has an aluminum pump instead of cast iron, so it’s noisy. If I’m spraying (HVLP conversion gun) or using air tools (my favorite sander is a Dynabrade 5” RO air sander, and my deburr gun is an AirTurbine pencil grinder) then even this compressor at 17cfm is cutting it a little close. My CNC mill needs about 3-4cfm for tool changes and coolant spraying, so I could/can run it or any of my other woodworking machines with a small 5CFM compressor. My little 2hp Hitachi hot dog compressor will keep up with those, but I can’t stand the noise.
My suggestion would be a 5hp quiet, two stage compressor with a 60-80 gallon tank, and then find a smaller, super quiet compressor and plumb both compressors into the same tank. Then add a refrigerated dryer with automatic drain and a filter unit after the tanks. This way you can run the silent compressor 99% of the time and kick on the big compressor when you want to do any spraying or run out of capacity for some reason.
I used to suggest the California Air Tools compressors, but I almost lost the whole shop to one of those. Relief valve stuck and was purging the tank and it made the compressor run continuously, I was in the house and came out to a shop filled with smoke and probably just minutes from a fire. So unless you are religious about turning off the compressor every time you leave the shop, I wouldn’t recommend one of them.
On Jul 18, 2020, at 8:53 AM, Tom Morris < morrist@...> wrote:
Brian,
I’m in the process of expanding my basement shop and I thought it would be a good idea to upgrade my compressor. I have to admit that the Kaeser brochure ?is very good and I liked the idea of quiet and built-in dryer. I’ve been thinking for awhile I should have better air for my Martin tools other than just an in-line water separator. My current Quincy 20 gallon tank is doing fine for my Al-Ko 200 dust collector. I’ve thought about adding spray equipment in my new space.
I have an addiction to expensive equipment but don’t want to throw money away on something that might only work a few years. It’s obvious I need to do more research, that’s where I get so much benefit out of this group.
?Thanks,
Tom Morris
|
Tom,
To avoid buying an expensive Air compressor with dryer system and pneumatic pump to use to spray I bought the Graco Finish Pro 395 air assisted airless sprayer. ?It is an electric pump with a small air compressor that atomizes the finish at the tip of the spray gun. ?It works well but was paint to clean. ?I am selling it for $2000. ?To go the compressed air route I expected to pay about $8 to 10k for the AC/ dryer and the Pump with gun.
I found that for shooting waterbased Sirca coatings ( the only thing I sprayed) that the small battery operated Graco handheld worked very well and was easier to clean, it also uses the same tips as the Graco Finish pro 395. ?It is heavy and not suitable for doing long spraying runs. ?I was pleased with the Graco Ultra. ?I have 4 or 5 of the paint containers and several batteries so I can keep going when shooting several windows. ?The nice thing about the Graco Ultra and the Finish pro 395 is that they have the power to spray the very thick Sirca, so thick that a paint stir stands straight up in the sirca can. ?The Sirca I used is meant to be sprayed on vertical surfaces in a thick 8 to 10 wet mil layer, it can be thinned up to 5% but I preferred not to. ?
?
Guess what? ?I am selling the Graco Ultra too with all the accessories.
I don’t know if these items would be suitable to shoot the finishes you want to shoot. ?Since they are electric you have to be careful and ground properly when shooting solvent based finished or avoid solvent based finished all together.
Joe in New Orleans
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On Jul 18, 2020, at 10:53 AM, Tom Morris < morrist@...> wrote:
Brian,
I’m in the process of expanding my basement shop and I thought it would be a good idea to upgrade my compressor. I have to admit that the Kaeser brochure ?is very good and I liked the idea of quiet and built-in dryer. I’ve been thinking for awhile I should have better air for my Martin tools other than just an in-line water separator. My current Quincy 20 gallon tank is doing fine for my Al-Ko 200 dust collector. I’ve thought about adding spray equipment in my new space.
I have an addiction to expensive equipment but don’t want to throw money away on something that might only work a few years. It’s obvious I need to do more research, that’s where I get so much benefit out of this group.
?Thanks,
Tom Morris
|
I did that a lot too, this was actually the valve that takes the pressure off the compressor head when it shuts off, so it can easy start again. Completely smoked the wiring on the motors. I even contacted them to buy just the motor/compressor combination and it was more expensive than buying a whole new unit… so I’m just doing without until I find what I really want.
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it is funny you mention the stuck relief valve. yesterday i used my baby ?california air 1 gal to air up the tires. as i picked it up and walked around i almost crapped due to a sudden large noise. i realized that I had accidentally bumped the relief valve. maybe they overcompensated for their problem.
imran? On Jul 18, 2020, at 12:45 PM, Brian Lamb < blamb11@...> wrote: ? That was my problem, I forgot…. loved that it was quiet… but never had any other compressor that would cause that sort of problem.
Brian, good to know on the cal air I have a small 10 gal and it is pretty quiet. I turn it off everytime I leave the shop except when I forget... On Jul 18, 2020, at 12:14 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
? Hi Tom,
Better air is easy to accomplish with a dryer and then a filter, the compressor is really not the problem. What is the CFM of your current Quincy? A larger storage tank might be all that is necessary if the pump has adequate CFM delivery.
I have a 5hp 60 Gallon upright Ingersol Rand compressor, it’s not bad, but it’s one of their “cheaper” consumer grade compressors, has an aluminum pump instead of cast iron, so it’s noisy. If I’m spraying (HVLP conversion gun) or using air tools (my favorite sander is a Dynabrade 5” RO air sander, and my deburr gun is an AirTurbine pencil grinder) then even this compressor at 17cfm is cutting it a little close. My CNC mill needs about 3-4cfm for tool changes and coolant spraying, so I could/can run it or any of my other woodworking machines with a small 5CFM compressor. My little 2hp Hitachi hot dog compressor will keep up with those, but I can’t stand the noise.
My suggestion would be a 5hp quiet, two stage compressor with a 60-80 gallon tank, and then find a smaller, super quiet compressor and plumb both compressors into the same tank. Then add a refrigerated dryer with automatic drain and a filter unit after the tanks. This way you can run the silent compressor 99% of the time and kick on the big compressor when you want to do any spraying or run out of capacity for some reason.
I used to suggest the California Air Tools compressors, but I almost lost the whole shop to one of those. Relief valve stuck and was purging the tank and it made the compressor run continuously, I was in the house and came out to a shop filled with smoke and probably just minutes from a fire. So unless you are religious about turning off the compressor every time you leave the shop, I wouldn’t recommend one of them.
On Jul 18, 2020, at 8:53 AM, Tom Morris < morrist@...> wrote:
Brian,
I’m in the process of expanding my basement shop and I thought it would be a good idea to upgrade my compressor. I have to admit that the Kaeser brochure ?is very good and I liked the idea of quiet and built-in dryer. I’ve been thinking for awhile I should have better air for my Martin tools other than just an in-line water separator. My current Quincy 20 gallon tank is doing fine for my Al-Ko 200 dust collector. I’ve thought about adding spray equipment in my new space.
I have an addiction to expensive equipment but don’t want to throw money away on something that might only work a few years. It’s obvious I need to do more research, that’s where I get so much benefit out of this group.
?Thanks,
Tom Morris
|
joe,
i may be getting ahead of myself. I’m going to hold off on buying any spray equipment until I have the new space finished around the end of the year.?
My current compressor is a 20 gallon Quincy that produces 8.1 cfm at 40 psi. I can tell I need to educate myself more on cfm’s and psi.
?Thanks,
Tom
wichita, ks
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What a fantastic source of knowledge you all are. ?
Brian L, I love this idea.
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My suggestion would be a 5hp quiet, two stage compressor with a 60-80 gallon tank, and then find a smaller, super quiet compressor and plumb both compressors into the same tank. Then add a refrigerated dryer with automatic drain and a filter unit after the tanks. This way you can run the silent compressor 99% of the time and kick on the big compressor when you want to do any spraying or run out of capacity for some reason.
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If I were looking for an air compressor under 20 hp I would buy anything but Quincy piston type. I have owned several different brands of compressors Including 50 hp screws. Quincy are quite, long lasting and least expensive to rebuild of any I know about. Eventually they all need service, price a rebuild kit before you buy.
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Sang Luu
David Luckensmeyer
Jonathan Smith
imran