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So after getting my C3-41 I am not sure what a good first but would to get. I do have a router table but I do want to use the shaper. Any advice on what a good bit or two to get? Just have no idea where to start.?
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In general, the most used cutter by my colleagues and me, is a spiral cutter between 80-125mm diameter, and 60-100mm tall. The exact size depends on your machine’s capacity to tilt the cutter through a full 45 degrees.?
This cutter can rebate timber, on the top or bottom, forward or backward, very cleanly, and at a myriad of sizes. You can put an angle on the edge of a piece of timber. You can chamfer edges at basically any size. You can even “raise” a panel by rebating the front to fit into a table-saw-made groove and complete cabinet work.?
Many places make a cutter like I’ve described above, including Hammer, Felder, Rangate, etc. I have a 125mm dia. Spiral cutter from Leitz. I love it and use it all the time.? And your second cutter should be an adjustable groover, unless you have the dado set?
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On 12 Feb 2020, at 7:50 am, robsimmons67 via Groups.Io <robsimmons67@...> wrote:
?So after getting my C3-41 I am not sure what a good first but would to get. I do have a router table but I do want to use the shaper. Any advice on what a good bit or two to get? Just have no idea where to start.?
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The spiral cutter is a good suggestion with a bearing for doing template work as well as everything Lucky suggested. I use that bit for flush cutting templates quite often. Rangate has a smaller diameter which can help get in tighter and is very nice.
Depending on what you do, a HSS insert cutterhead can take you easily to a huge variety of cutting ability. Rangate has? Klein, CMT, Freud, and Amana all make them as well and there is a large catalog of inserts and the ability to get custom ground knives too. This would be my first pick for a general purpose shop with an alternate ability to do dados. It will get you to a very inexpensive versatile system that you can start using the shaper's abilities.
If you are a business and short run cabinet doors are a part of it, the Rangate cabinet door cutter is very versatile with its insert knife system. If you don't, probably not worth the investment and a dedicated profile set can be had for a fraction of the cost, or even perhaps an insert knife for the HSS insert cutterhead.?
I use a dado head for most of my grooving but if I was doing more furniture instead of casework groovers would be good to have. Also, they would be more important if I didn't have a combo machine and had a separate shaper.?There is a very versatile multiuse set from rangate that covers a lot of the bases including serving as a groover.
Any other heads would be dependent on what you do and how often you do it.
Michael Tagge
Built Custom Carpentry
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You might also consider the universal set with interchangeable knives.? I have an extra set for a 30mm spindle. ? 
? Jon S ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of robsimmons67 via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2020 1:50 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [FOG] Good first shaper bit? So after getting my C3-41 I am not sure what a good first but would to get. I do have a router table but I do want to use the shaper. Any advice on what a good bit or two to get? Just have no idea where to start.?
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Do you have a feeder?? That would be one my first purchases.? Dave
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You might also consider the universal set with interchangeable knives.? I have an extra set for a 30mm spindle.
?
?
Jon S
?
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So after getting my C3-41 I am not sure what a good first but would to get. I do have a router table but I do want to use the shaper. Any advice on what a good bit or two to get? Just have no idea where to start.?
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David,
I do not have a spiral head like you describe. Just a question, does it have nickers top and bottom to do clean rebates like a rebate head. If not how do you rate rebate quality compared to a rebate head with nickers - I assume you have one.
Imran On Feb 12, 2020, at 3:00 AM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
? In general, the most used cutter by my colleagues and me, is a spiral cutter between 80-125mm diameter, and 60-100mm tall. The exact size depends on your machine’s capacity to tilt the cutter through a full 45 degrees.?
This cutter can rebate timber, on the top or bottom, forward or backward, very cleanly, and at a myriad of sizes. You can put an angle on the edge of a piece of timber. You can chamfer edges at basically any size. You can even “raise” a panel by rebating the front to fit into a table-saw-made groove and complete cabinet work.?
Many places make a cutter like I’ve described above, including Hammer, Felder, Rangate, etc. I have a 125mm dia. Spiral cutter from Leitz. I love it and use it all the time.? And your second cutter should be an adjustable groover, unless you have the dado set? On 12 Feb 2020, at 7:50 am, robsimmons67 via Groups.Io <robsimmons67@...> wrote:
?So after getting my C3-41 I am not sure what a good first but would to get. I do have a router table but I do want to use the shaper. Any advice on what a good bit or two to get? Just have no idea where to start.?
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Hi Imran.?
It has nickers top and bottom. I have a lot of cutters and use a lot of them. But this cutter is my most used. Cheers.?
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On 12 Feb 2020, at 12:01 pm, Imran Malik <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? David,
I do not have a spiral head like you describe. Just a question, does it have nickers top and bottom to do clean rebates like a rebate head. If not how do you rate rebate quality compared to a rebate head with nickers - I assume you have one.
Imran On Feb 12, 2020, at 3:00 AM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
? In general, the most used cutter by my colleagues and me, is a spiral cutter between 80-125mm diameter, and 60-100mm tall. The exact size depends on your machine’s capacity to tilt the cutter through a full 45 degrees.?
This cutter can rebate timber, on the top or bottom, forward or backward, very cleanly, and at a myriad of sizes. You can put an angle on the edge of a piece of timber. You can chamfer edges at basically any size. You can even “raise” a panel by rebating the front to fit into a table-saw-made groove and complete cabinet work.?
Many places make a cutter like I’ve described above, including Hammer, Felder, Rangate, etc. I have a 125mm dia. Spiral cutter from Leitz. I love it and use it all the time.? And your second cutter should be an adjustable groover, unless you have the dado set? On 12 Feb 2020, at 7:50 am, robsimmons67 via Groups.Io <robsimmons67@...> wrote:
?So after getting my C3-41 I am not sure what a good first but would to get. I do have a router table but I do want to use the shaper. Any advice on what a good bit or two to get? Just have no idea where to start.?
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This is the kind of spiral cutter Lucky is talking about. ? This particular one is a Rangate product and comes with a rub bearing for template work and has nickers top and bottom. ?I have a similar version made by Leitz. ?Terrific cutter.?
 I often get asked “I’m new to shapers and want to get cutters for it, what should I buy?”. ? In my own experience, that’s putting the cart before the horse, and if you aren’t careful you’ll spend a lot of money on tooling that’s rarely or never used. ? I learned this the hard way. ? The best strategy for shaper tooling is to let the projects you commit to making drive the acquisition of the shaper tooling. ??
For instance, if you think you’ll be doing a lot of tenon cutting for joinery, a pair of deep cutting rebate cutters might seem ideal - stack one cutter above the other with a spacer in between and presto, you have a variable thickness tenoner. ? Then a year later you realize all your tenon work is done with a Festool domino router. ? I’ve seen this specific scenario many times. ?
To be sure, some cutters are more general use than others, and a spiral rebate cutter like Lucky mentioned facilitates template/pattern work, edge rebates, and can even be useful as dimensioning timber. ?
Lots of people will say to get a variable thickness grooving cutter. ?The utility of a groover is entirely dependent on the projects you undertake. ? I have two variable width groomers in my shaper tool inventory, and they are the least used cutters in my collection because of the type of work I do. ??
Then there are the bargain hunters who lunge after cutters because they are on sale, or offered at a whopping discount to new. ?I’ve been guilty of this myself. ?So you buy that super screaming deal of a panel raising cutter, then once you use it you discover it doesn’t have the profile shape you want, or is too large to go down into the shaper cavity below the cast iron top like you thought. ? Research what fits your machine, and buy what you know you need and will meet all the needs of your project and fit the machine.
Rangate’s Cutter Share program is a terrific way to test out shaper tooling. ? You can rent most of their standard cutters for a few months for a project, then if you decide you need to own it, you can buy that set at a discount.?
My very strong encouragement is to let your projects drive your cutter purchases, and resist the temptation to buy a bunch of tooling on a prospective basis. ?
David Best - Sent from my iPad
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On Feb 11, 2020, at 6:01 PM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? David,
I do not have a spiral head like you describe. Just a question, does it have nickers top and bottom to do clean rebates like a rebate head. If not how do you rate rebate quality compared to a rebate head with nickers - I assume you have one.
Imran On Feb 12, 2020, at 3:00 AM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
? In general, the most used cutter by my colleagues and me, is a spiral cutter between 80-125mm diameter, and 60-100mm tall. The exact size depends on your machine’s capacity to tilt the cutter through a full 45 degrees.?
This cutter can rebate timber, on the top or bottom, forward or backward, very cleanly, and at a myriad of sizes. You can put an angle on the edge of a piece of timber. You can chamfer edges at basically any size. You can even “raise” a panel by rebating the front to fit into a table-saw-made groove and complete cabinet work.?
Many places make a cutter like I’ve described above, including Hammer, Felder, Rangate, etc. I have a 125mm dia. Spiral cutter from Leitz. I love it and use it all the time.? And your second cutter should be an adjustable groover, unless you have the dado set? On 12 Feb 2020, at 7:50 am, robsimmons67 via Groups.Io <robsimmons67@...> wrote:
?So after getting my C3-41 I am not sure what a good first but would to get. I do have a router table but I do want to use the shaper. Any advice on what a good bit or two to get? Just have no idea where to start.?
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Rob, I would make a call to Greg at Rangate. I bought a set of start up cutters from him at the Vegas show and got a very good deal based on what it would have been buying separate.
I got a rebate head, two adjustable groovers, and a basic profile set, great start for me to learn on. I have used all a lot except the profile cutter so far. The finish cut are extremely clean. how every the smaller groover will not do 1/4" so I bought another one. Very happy with the company, product and service. I cant remember the cost but it was good for what I got.? ?
Big Tree Woodworking
P.O. Box 257 Avery Ca 95224
On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 1:50 PM robsimmons67 via Groups.Io <robsimmons67= [email protected]> wrote: So after getting my C3-41 I am not sure what a good first but would to get. I do have a router table but I do want to use the shaper. Any advice on what a good bit or two to get? Just have no idea where to start.?
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I was going to add this but David Best already just did, The Cuttershare from Rangate is a great way to try stuff out, although basic cutters are not in the program, a lot are.
I am going to try my first attempt on raised panel doors next, well not first but first on the new machines and I am planning to use the Cuttershare for this. I have full intention of buying the set but until I figure out the door style trend where I live that appears to be ever changing, Cuttershare is a no brainer.
Glen
Big Tree Woodworking
P.O. Box 257 Avery Ca 95224
This is the kind of spiral cutter Lucky is talking about. ? This particular one is a Rangate product and comes with a rub bearing for template work and has nickers top and bottom.? I have a similar version made by Leitz.? Terrific cutter.?
 I often get asked “I’m new to shapers and want to get cutters for it, what should I buy?”. ? In my own experience, that’s putting the cart before the horse, and if you aren’t careful you’ll spend a lot of money on tooling that’s rarely or never used. ? I learned this the hard way. ? The best strategy for shaper tooling is to let the projects you commit to making drive the acquisition of the shaper tooling. ??
For instance, if you think you’ll be doing a lot of tenon cutting for joinery, a pair of deep cutting rebate cutters might seem ideal - stack one cutter above the other with a spacer in between and presto, you have a variable thickness tenoner. ? Then a year later you realize all your tenon work is done with a Festool domino router. ? I’ve seen this specific scenario many times. ?
To be sure, some cutters are more general use than others, and a spiral rebate cutter like Lucky mentioned facilitates template/pattern work, edge rebates, and can even be useful as dimensioning timber. ?
Lots of people will say to get a variable thickness grooving cutter.? The utility of a groover is entirely dependent on the projects you undertake. ? I have two variable width groomers in my shaper tool inventory, and they are the least used cutters in my collection because of the type of work I do. ??
Then there are the bargain hunters who lunge after cutters because they are on sale, or offered at a whopping discount to new.? I’ve been guilty of this myself.? So you buy that super screaming deal of a panel raising cutter, then once you use it you discover it doesn’t have the profile shape you want, or is too large to go down into the shaper cavity below the cast iron top like you thought. ? Research what fits your machine, and buy what you know you need and will meet all the needs of your project and fit the machine.
Rangate’s Cutter Share program is a terrific way to test out shaper tooling. ? You can rent most of their standard cutters for a few months for a project, then if you decide you need to own it, you can buy that set at a discount.?
My very strong encouragement is to let your projects drive your cutter purchases, and resist the temptation to buy a bunch of tooling on a prospective basis. ?
David Best - Sent from my iPad On Feb 11, 2020, at 6:01 PM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
? David,
I do not have a spiral head like you describe. Just a question, does it have nickers top and bottom to do clean rebates like a rebate head. If not how do you rate rebate quality compared to a rebate head with nickers - I assume you have one.
Imran On Feb 12, 2020, at 3:00 AM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
?In general, the most used cutter by my colleagues and me, is a spiral cutter between 80-125mm diameter, and 60-100mm tall. The exact size depends on your machine’s capacity to tilt the cutter through a full 45 degrees.?
This cutter can rebate timber, on the top or bottom, forward or backward, very cleanly, and at a myriad of sizes. You can put an angle on the edge of a piece of timber. You can chamfer edges at basically any size. You can even “raise” a panel by rebating the front to fit into a table-saw-made groove and complete cabinet work.?
Many places make a cutter like I’ve described above, including Hammer, Felder, Rangate, etc. I have a 125mm dia. Spiral cutter from Leitz. I love it and use it all the time.? And your second cutter should be an adjustable groover, unless you have the dado set? On 12 Feb 2020, at 7:50 am, robsimmons67 via Groups.Io <robsimmons67=[email protected]> wrote:
?So after getting my C3-41 I am not sure what a good first but would to get. I do have a router table but I do want to use the shaper. Any advice on what a good bit or two to get? Just have no idea where to start.?
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I called Greg at Rangate and got the Craftsman shaper set. From what I’ve been reading, it’s a very good start. $2900+
Bill Belanger?
Rob, I would make a call to Greg at Rangate. I bought a set of start up cutters from him at the Vegas show and got a very good deal based on what it would have been buying separate.
I got a rebate head, two adjustable groovers, and a basic profile set, great start for me to learn on. I have used all a lot except the profile cutter so far. The finish cut are extremely clean. how every the smaller groover will not do 1/4" so I bought another one. Very happy with the company, product and service. I cant remember the cost but it was good for what I got.? ?
Big Tree Woodworking
P.O. Box 257 Avery Ca 95224
On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 1:50 PM robsimmons67 via Groups.Io <robsimmons67= [email protected]> wrote: So after getting my C3-41 I am not sure what a good first but would to get. I do have a router table but I do want to use the shaper. Any advice on what a good bit or two to get? Just have no idea where to start.?
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I was completely new to the use of the shaper. ?I too didn’t have a clue how to get started. ?I learned of the Alpine Technical Workshops that are taught by Joe Calhoun in Ouray Colorado. ?Greg Godbout of Rangate facilitates the logistics for these classes. ?While attending the first class, I worked with Greg to get a starter set of shaper tools. ?Since then, I have been adding to my set as I determine my needs. ?I was told that the shaper is one machine that will ultimately have more expense in tooling than the machine. ?I’ve got a good start on that.
I would recommend you consider taking one or more of the Alpine classes. ?They focus on the SAFE use of the shaper. ?While there, you will get ample opportunity to discuss your tooling needs with Greg, Joe, and the other students. ?Plus, Greg provides a great discount on tooling to Alpine attendees. ?And the bonus is you get to learn how to keep all your digits while using the shaper. ?The classes aren’t cheap, in my opinion, they are worth every penny. ?Class size is limited to six or less.?
Enjoy,
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On Feb 11, 2020, at 2:24 PM, robsimmons67 via Groups.Io <robsimmons67@...> wrote:
?So after getting my C3-41 I am not sure what a good first but would to get. I do have a router table but I do want to use the shaper. Any advice on what a good bit or two to get? Just have no idea where to start.?
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I will second that to everything Alex said.
I did the alpine shaper class this last summer and will say it was the best thing I have done, What you think is expensive was worth every penny spent and more.
Before the class I had never used a shaper and had a very expensive one sitting in front of me in my new shop and afraid of it
after the class, I use it all the time and feel good about it, I haven't tried the bow master yet but straight runs with our without the power feeder is just cool.
I would highly suggest that anyone who is new to the shaper, Take the class, Its cheaper than a loss of a digit. Joe is a remarkable guy and will spend extra time with you on something that your not clear or comfortable with. He even gave me some time after class helping me with some milling questions that were not even part of the class.
For 2k or what ever it was, best money spent yet, I am planning to go back and take the lift and slide & the euro window classes. I will probably never built one, but the classes are above the top.
Now If I could get David Best to spend a week at my shop, that would be the best it can get with angels..............hint
Glen
Big Tree Woodworking
P.O. Box 257 Avery Ca 95224
On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 8:16 PM Alex Bowlds < aabj@...> wrote: I was completely new to the use of the shaper.? I too didn’t have a clue how to get started.? I learned of the Alpine Technical Workshops that are taught by Joe Calhoun in Ouray Colorado.? Greg Godbout of Rangate facilitates the logistics for these classes.? While attending the first class, I worked with Greg to get a starter set of shaper tools.? Since then, I have been adding to my set as I determine my needs.? I was told that the shaper is one machine that will ultimately have more expense in tooling than the machine.? I’ve got a good start on that.
I would recommend you consider taking one or more of the Alpine classes.? They focus on the SAFE use of the shaper.? While there, you will get ample opportunity to discuss your tooling needs with Greg, Joe, and the other students.? Plus, Greg provides a great discount on tooling to Alpine attendees.? And the bonus is you get to learn how to keep all your digits while using the shaper.? The classes aren’t cheap, in my opinion, they are worth every penny.? Class size is limited to six or less.?
Enjoy,
Alex On Feb 11, 2020, at 2:24 PM, robsimmons67 via Groups.Io <robsimmons67=[email protected]> wrote:
?So after getting my C3-41 I am not sure what a good first but would to get. I do have a router table but I do want to use the shaper. Any advice on what a good bit or two to get? Just have no idea where to start.?
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I would add one of the many critical items that has gotten many of us. Make sure you have enough depth when you place the locking cap on top of the spindle after installing cutterhead. If you do not, the center of the cap will bottom out on the top of spindle and no pressure will be applied by it’s peripheral surface to the cutter via the spacer rings.
If this is not done properly, the arbor will spin and the cutter could be stationary or more likely spin at much lower speed depending upon how much pressure it is under from the locking cap. If this goes on for some time the cutter will sieze on the arbor which is bad news.
Imran On Feb 12, 2020, at 9:16 AM, Alex Bowlds <aabj@...> wrote:
? I was completely new to the use of the shaper. ?I too didn’t have a clue how to get started. ?I learned of the Alpine Technical Workshops that are taught by Joe Calhoun in Ouray Colorado. ?Greg Godbout of Rangate facilitates the logistics for these classes. ?While attending the first class, I worked with Greg to get a starter set of shaper tools. ?Since then, I have been adding to my set as I determine my needs. ?I was told that the shaper is one machine that will ultimately have more expense in tooling than the machine. ?I’ve got a good start on that.
I would recommend you consider taking one or more of the Alpine classes. ?They focus on the SAFE use of the shaper. ?While there, you will get ample opportunity to discuss your tooling needs with Greg, Joe, and the other students. ?Plus, Greg provides a great discount on tooling to Alpine attendees. ?And the bonus is you get to learn how to keep all your digits while using the shaper. ?The classes aren’t cheap, in my opinion, they are worth every penny. ?Class size is limited to six or less.?
Enjoy,
Alex On Feb 11, 2020, at 2:24 PM, robsimmons67 via Groups.Io <robsimmons67@...> wrote:
?So after getting my C3-41 I am not sure what a good first but would to get. I do have a router table but I do want to use the shaper. Any advice on what a good bit or two to get? Just have no idea where to start.?
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I don't have one yet but my wife wants me to get one after seeing me feed some 10 foot cedar to strip down to 1/4 inch for her Stand Up Paddle Board I am building for her. From her angle it looked like my fingers were getting very close to the blade but I was staying well away. But I am all for getting the feeder. It will give me a much smoother cleaner cut on log boards anyway.
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Mine won't tilt so it is just a straight up and down shaper.
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Thanks for the advice. I probably would start with a Spiral Cutter just because template work and flush cutting is always something I do from time to time and some pieces require several passes on my router that would be a much easier task on the shaper. It is definitely not like buying a 50 dollar router bit. You need to be sure you need this bit because it can get to more costly than the machine itself.
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David Luckensmeyer
Jonathan Smith
imran
David P. Best
Bill Belanger