|
Folks,? this is less a question about my Felder machines and more a question on edge detail and ending a round over detail prior to the end of the board.? The attached picture is as they say ... worth a thousand words and its what I'd like to do but have no idea how to achieve the look.? I've tried a few different methods on exiting the router but can't get this look.? Any ideas would be appreciated.? 
|
Looks like a stopped cut to me if I’m looking at the right thing. I’d probably recreate that with a round over then drop it to make a stepped round over in a stop cut setup. The groove or v would follow the same stopped cut plan.
Just some ideas
Michael Tagge
Built Custom Carpentry
Get
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Folks,? this is less a question about my Felder machines and more a question on edge detail and ending a round over detail prior to the end of the board.? The attached picture is as they say ... worth a thousand words and its what I'd like to do but have
no idea how to achieve the look.? I've tried a few different methods on exiting the router but can't get this look.? Any ideas would be appreciated.?
|
Michael,
if i understand what you are saying correctly, let’s say the roundover bit is making the lower fillet and bottom half of round. how would you drop the workpiece while still traveling to get 1/2 of the V shape? seems like the travel to drop distance ratio is close to 1:1.
imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 12, 2020, at 4:45 PM, Michael Tagge <mike.j.tagge@...> wrote: ?
Looks like a stopped cut to me if I’m looking at the right thing. I’d probably recreate that with a round over then drop it to make a stepped round over in a stop cut setup. The groove or v would follow the same stopped cut plan.
Just some ideas
Michael Tagge
Built Custom Carpentry
Get
Folks,? this is less a question about my Felder machines and more a question on edge detail and ending a round over detail prior to the end of the board.? The attached picture is as they say ... worth a thousand words and its what I'd like to do but have
no idea how to achieve the look.? I've tried a few different methods on exiting the router but can't get this look.? Any ideas would be appreciated.?
<Round Over Edge Detail 1.jpg>
|
The “v” or grove on the right? There’s always the possibility for chisel clean up for square corners. Unless I’m misunderstanding. I don’t see the detail very clearly on my phone to analyze the nuance.
It’s a three part cut from what I suggested. 1) round over full length. Then probably the same bit, but 2) raise it to get the step on a stopped cut. This is the front. 3) For the groove on the right side, it looks like a stopped
groove or v.
I cannot see a way to do it all at once if that is what you think I was suggesting.
Michael Tagge
Built Custom Carpentry
Get
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Michael,
if i understand what you are saying correctly, let’s say the roundover bit is making the lower fillet and bottom half of round. how would you drop the workpiece while still traveling to get 1/2 of the V shape? seems like the travel to drop distance
ratio is close to 1:1.
imran
On Oct 12, 2020, at 4:45 PM, Michael Tagge <mike.j.tagge@...> wrote:
?
Looks like a stopped cut to me if I’m looking at the right thing. I’d probably recreate that with a round over then drop it to make a stepped round over in a stop cut setup. The groove or v would follow the same stopped cut plan.
Just some ideas
Michael Tagge
Built Custom Carpentry
Get
Folks,? this is less a question about my Felder machines and more a question on edge detail and ending a round over detail prior to the end of the board.? The attached picture is as they say ... worth a thousand words and its what I'd like to do but have
no idea how to achieve the look.? I've tried a few different methods on exiting the router but can't get this look.? Any ideas would be appreciated.?
<Round Over Edge Detail 1.jpg>
|
Michael,
i assume robert is talking about the vertical routing detail that terminates in a V shape in top.
i would attempt to make the two fillets with round in between with a bullnose type bit in one pass.
round over bit would require two passes but complicating the stoping point as it would be beginning of one pass and end of the other.
i figures just use a chisel to make the V shape and then cleanup. not sure if there is enough material to use a hand router plane as it would be ideal.
imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 12, 2020, at 5:34 PM, Michael Tagge <mike.j.tagge@...> wrote: ?
The “v” or grove on the right? There’s always the possibility for chisel clean up for square corners. Unless I’m misunderstanding. I don’t see the detail very clearly on my phone to analyze the nuance.
It’s a three part cut from what I suggested. 1) round over full length. Then probably the same bit, but 2) raise it to get the step on a stopped cut. This is the front. 3) For the groove on the right side, it looks like a stopped
groove or v.
I cannot see a way to do it all at once if that is what you think I was suggesting.
Michael Tagge
Built Custom Carpentry
Get
Michael,
if i understand what you are saying correctly, let’s say the roundover bit is making the lower fillet and bottom half of round. how would you drop the workpiece while still traveling to get 1/2 of the V shape? seems like the travel to drop distance
ratio is close to 1:1.
imran
On Oct 12, 2020, at 4:45 PM, Michael Tagge <mike.j.tagge@...> wrote:
?
Looks like a stopped cut to me if I’m looking at the right thing. I’d probably recreate that with a round over then drop it to make a stepped round over in a stop cut setup. The groove or v would follow the same stopped cut plan.
Just some ideas
Michael Tagge
Built Custom Carpentry
Get
Folks,? this is less a question about my Felder machines and more a question on edge detail and ending a round over detail prior to the end of the board.? The attached picture is as they say ... worth a thousand words and its what I'd like to do but have
no idea how to achieve the look.? I've tried a few different methods on exiting the router but can't get this look.? Any ideas would be appreciated.?
<Round Over Edge Detail 1.jpg>
|
I think we’re all struggling with the picture quality, but Michael I wonder whether your idea of raising the bit will not only create the stopped shoulder Rob wants, but it will also re-profile the round-over so it is deeper and not in the same plane? That may be the objective. I don’t know. I’m thinking it might be better to round-over the whole edge, and then use a totally different bit, like a rebate bit or even a large diameter end-mill style bit, for the stopped pass. This would create a bit of an arris on the “rounded” part. I can’t tell from the picture if that is what’s required.
Like Michael, just some ideas.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Looks like a stopped cut to me if I’m looking at the right thing. I’d probably recreate that with a round over then drop it to make a stepped round over in a stop cut setup. The groove or v would follow the same stopped cut plan.
Just some ideas
Michael Tagge
Built Custom Carpentry
Get
Folks,? this is less a question about my Felder machines and more a question on edge detail and ending a round over detail prior to the end of the board.? The attached picture is as they say ... worth a thousand words and its what I'd like to do but have
no idea how to achieve the look.? I've tried a few different methods on exiting the router but can't get this look.? Any ideas would be appreciated.?
<Round Over Edge Detail 1.jpg>
|
Hi Rob, This moulding was produced on a spindle moulder with an appropriate cutter set and probably tilted as well! This enabled the shallow v grove to be cut and produce the corner bead. Executed as a stop cut you can see that the diameter of the profile of the cutter is far greater on the top side of the corner bead than on the v grove. To give you a clue the cutter profile will be of the architrave type! Hope that helps!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 13 Oct 2020, at 01:45, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Michael,
i assume robert is talking about the vertical routing detail that terminates in a V shape in top.
i would attempt to make the two fillets with round in between with a bullnose type bit in one pass.
round over bit would require two passes but complicating the stoping point as it would be beginning of one pass and end of the other.
i figures just use a chisel to make the V shape and then cleanup. not sure if there is enough material to use a hand router plane as it would be ideal.
imran
On Oct 12, 2020, at 5:34 PM, Michael Tagge <mike.j.tagge@...> wrote:
?
The “v” or grove on the right? There’s always the possibility for chisel clean up for square corners. Unless I’m misunderstanding. I don’t see the detail very clearly on my phone to analyze the nuance.
It’s a three part cut from what I suggested. 1) round over full length. Then probably the same bit, but 2) raise it to get the step on a stopped cut. This is the front. 3) For the groove on the right side, it looks like a stopped
groove or v.
I cannot see a way to do it all at once if that is what you think I was suggesting.
Michael Tagge
Built Custom Carpentry
Get
Michael,
if i understand what you are saying correctly, let’s say the roundover bit is making the lower fillet and bottom half of round. how would you drop the workpiece while still traveling to get 1/2 of the V shape? seems like the travel to drop distance
ratio is close to 1:1.
imran
On Oct 12, 2020, at 4:45 PM, Michael Tagge <mike.j.tagge@...> wrote:
?
Looks like a stopped cut to me if I’m looking at the right thing. I’d probably recreate that with a round over then drop it to make a stepped round over in a stop cut setup. The groove or v would follow the same stopped cut plan.
Just some ideas
Michael Tagge
Built Custom Carpentry
Get
Folks,? this is less a question about my Felder machines and more a question on edge detail and ending a round over detail prior to the end of the board.? The attached picture is as they say ... worth a thousand words and its what I'd like to do but have
no idea how to achieve the look.? I've tried a few different methods on exiting the router but can't get this look.? Any ideas would be appreciated.?
<Round Over Edge Detail 1.jpg>
|
I'm so sorry about the quality of the picture.? It's actually a screen shot of a video showing the entire piece of furniture.? And then I've zoomed in probably 5X to show the edge detail.? ?I'm in the process of making a piece of furniture for our dining room that will serve as an insulated & conditioned (cooled) wine cabinet to store our red wines, (so 55 degrees).? Literature has been very scarce on how to do this so I've resorted to watching all the vendor product videos.? I came across this edge detail and liked the look and truthfully it stumped me from a woodworking standpoint.? I've tried a few things on the router table and now with your ideas on multiple passes will go back in the shop and play with this more because it will not beat me - even if I have to spend hours on the chisel.? It shows on the two top front corners of the 6'-6" tall cabinet, so this detail is right at eye level and has to be done right.? Martin I'm going to do more research on the architrave?type spindle cutter because if I can do this on the Felder shaper that will be soooo cool..? I may even reach out to some of the cutter manufacturer's for their ideas.? Thanks so much folks!
Rob
|
Martin,
i am fascinated with the fact that this is possible with just a stopped cut on the shaper. to be sure we are speaking of the two beads/fillets that terminate in the V-shape - circled below. i assume the space between the beads is close to a round over.
i can see tilting the cutter to get the V but it would need to tilt parallel to the direction of feed, correct? i am only aware of spindles that tilt perpendicular to the feed direction.?
i am terrible in this kind of thinking but i like this detail and a challenge, so would love to learn if it is possible to do it on shaper.
round over bit was mentioned with raising the cutter, i assume to get the V detail. i am unable to visualize that.
the two beads appear to have a round top, if so that is sweet. a typical bullnose type bit will only do a fillet.
good stuff.
imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 13, 2020, at 3:23 AM, Martin Guiver via groups.io <martin.guiver@...> wrote: ? Hi Rob, This moulding was produced on a spindle moulder with an appropriate cutter set and probably tilted as well! This enabled the shallow v grove to be cut and produce the corner bead. Executed as a stop cut you can see that the diameter of the profile of the cutter is far greater on the top side of the corner bead than on the v grove. To give you a clue the cutter profile will be of the architrave type! Hope that helps!
Regards Martin? On 13 Oct 2020, at 01:45, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Michael,
i assume robert is talking about the vertical routing detail that terminates in a V shape in top.
i would attempt to make the two fillets with round in between with a bullnose type bit in one pass.
round over bit would require two passes but complicating the stoping point as it would be beginning of one pass and end of the other.
i figures just use a chisel to make the V shape and then cleanup. not sure if there is enough material to use a hand router plane as it would be ideal.
imran
On Oct 12, 2020, at 5:34 PM, Michael Tagge <mike.j.tagge@...> wrote:
?
The “v” or grove on the right? There’s always the possibility for chisel clean up for square corners. Unless I’m misunderstanding. I don’t see the detail very clearly on my phone to analyze the nuance.
It’s a three part cut from what I suggested. 1) round over full length. Then probably the same bit, but 2) raise it to get the step on a stopped cut. This is the front. 3) For the groove on the right side, it looks like a stopped
groove or v.
I cannot see a way to do it all at once if that is what you think I was suggesting.
Michael Tagge
Built Custom Carpentry
Get
Michael,
if i understand what you are saying correctly, let’s say the roundover bit is making the lower fillet and bottom half of round. how would you drop the workpiece while still traveling to get 1/2 of the V shape? seems like the travel to drop distance
ratio is close to 1:1.
imran
On Oct 12, 2020, at 4:45 PM, Michael Tagge <mike.j.tagge@...> wrote:
?
Looks like a stopped cut to me if I’m looking at the right thing. I’d probably recreate that with a round over then drop it to make a stepped round over in a stop cut setup. The groove or v would follow the same stopped cut plan.
Just some ideas
Michael Tagge
Built Custom Carpentry
Get
Folks,? this is less a question about my Felder machines and more a question on edge detail and ending a round over detail prior to the end of the board.? The attached picture is as they say ... worth a thousand words and its what I'd like to do but have
no idea how to achieve the look.? I've tried a few different methods on exiting the router but can't get this look.? Any ideas would be appreciated.?
<Round Over Edge Detail 1.jpg>
|
Morning Rob, I’ve been a great advocate of multiple passes with both the router and spindle moulder for years, usually using different bits or blades! And or tilting the spindle! That’s why I first bought the Felder, mine is fairly old now, a BF-631 circa 1996 but we’ve grown together and I’m very comfortable with it and wouldn’t dream of a so called upgrade! I did dally once with the idea in the early 2000’s but then read a lot people’s reports about how good mine was as opposed to the new versions mainly that it was designed as one machine and not two bolted together! Thus stays accurate! I’ve found that playing with the options of what a cutter or router bit (or section of) can give you can produce remarkable results! I’m a renovator of listed property and years ago when having to replicate an existing moulding would order specially made cutters. That was fine until they started to cost the world now I can usually manage to replicate most profiles using what I have either in my tooling or with standard options! I start by visualising how they would have been made using old hand profile planes, what combination of these would have been used to achieve it and then I look for the parts of cutter that will give me that option. The spindle moulder is in fact far more versatile as you can turn blades upside down and reverse the direction of feed to access a completely different profile from the same set of cutters! Best of luck with the project Rob, if you’re still stuck post me a profile with dimensions and I’ll see if I can find a solution for you using standard euro cutters!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 14 Oct 2020, at 04:56, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Martin,
i am fascinated with the fact that this is possible with just a stopped cut on the shaper. to be sure we are speaking of the two beads/fillets that terminate in the V-shape - circled below. i assume the space between the beads is close to a round over.
i can see tilting the cutter to get the V but it would need to tilt parallel to the direction of feed, correct? i am only aware of spindles that tilt perpendicular to the feed direction.?
i am terrible in this kind of thinking but i like this detail and a challenge, so would love to learn if it is possible to do it on shaper.
round over bit was mentioned with raising the cutter, i assume to get the V detail. i am unable to visualize that.
the two beads appear to have a round top, if so that is sweet. a typical bullnose type bit will only do a fillet.
good stuff.
imran
On Oct 13, 2020, at 3:23 AM, Martin Guiver via groups.io <martin.guiver@...> wrote:
? Hi Rob, This moulding was produced on a spindle moulder with an appropriate cutter set and probably tilted as well! This enabled the shallow v grove to be cut and produce the corner bead. Executed as a stop cut you can see that the diameter of the profile of the cutter is far greater on the top side of the corner bead than on the v grove. To give you a clue the cutter profile will be of the architrave type! Hope that helps!
Regards Martin? On 13 Oct 2020, at 01:45, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Michael,
i assume robert is talking about the vertical routing detail that terminates in a V shape in top.
i would attempt to make the two fillets with round in between with a bullnose type bit in one pass.
round over bit would require two passes but complicating the stoping point as it would be beginning of one pass and end of the other.
i figures just use a chisel to make the V shape and then cleanup. not sure if there is enough material to use a hand router plane as it would be ideal.
imran
On Oct 12, 2020, at 5:34 PM, Michael Tagge <mike.j.tagge@...> wrote:
?
The “v” or grove on the right? There’s always the possibility for chisel clean up for square corners. Unless I’m misunderstanding. I don’t see the detail very clearly on my phone to analyze the nuance.
It’s a three part cut from what I suggested. 1) round over full length. Then probably the same bit, but 2) raise it to get the step on a stopped cut. This is the front. 3) For the groove on the right side, it looks like a stopped
groove or v.
I cannot see a way to do it all at once if that is what you think I was suggesting.
Michael Tagge
Built Custom Carpentry
Get
Michael,
if i understand what you are saying correctly, let’s say the roundover bit is making the lower fillet and bottom half of round. how would you drop the workpiece while still traveling to get 1/2 of the V shape? seems like the travel to drop distance
ratio is close to 1:1.
imran
On Oct 12, 2020, at 4:45 PM, Michael Tagge <mike.j.tagge@...> wrote:
?
Looks like a stopped cut to me if I’m looking at the right thing. I’d probably recreate that with a round over then drop it to make a stepped round over in a stop cut setup. The groove or v would follow the same stopped cut plan.
Just some ideas
Michael Tagge
Built Custom Carpentry
Get
Folks,? this is less a question about my Felder machines and more a question on edge detail and ending a round over detail prior to the end of the board.? The attached picture is as they say ... worth a thousand words and its what I'd like to do but have
no idea how to achieve the look.? I've tried a few different methods on exiting the router but can't get this look.? Any ideas would be appreciated.?
<Round Over Edge Detail 1.jpg>
|
Thanks for all the great feedback folks.? In a way I'm a wee bit glad the solution wasn't intuitively obvious to my fellow woodworkers.? Imran is correct in his illustration above; I am interested in the "V" detail at the top of the stop cut In terms of profile,? it's a 7/8" round over with a 1/8" groove (or step) on each side - pretty standard corner detail.? ?When it exits or finishes, it creates a "V" as the bit moves away from the piece - but it needs to move away in an exact identical way on both sides.? Then the corner detail has the same 7/8" radius round over for the balance of the corner -? but obviously at a higher level so there is no groove on either side of the round over - I believe that requires a separate pass with the router bit set just to round over. I did reach out to a few router / shaper bit manufacturer's and while several said it was a cool detail,? they did not know how to re-create it.? One even asked me to let him know if I figured out an easy way to do it.? However, Eagle America did have an answer and came back with how to do it but also the name of the stop detail.? It's called a "drifting Lambs Tongue" detail and t o create it, the product specialist said "most times a sled / template is used with a rub collar.??Basically the rub collar follows the template that has a drift on both ends.??This allows the cutter to drift into the edge, make a straight cut, then drift off.??Nothing more than a thin piece of MDF, typically a 1/2" "notch" and drum sand the ends."? He said he will try to get me a sketch or picture of the sled so I can get a running start at this.
?
I'm going to give it a try over the next few days and will post pictures if it works.? ? Rob.
|
imran
David Luckensmeyer