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Floor update for k945s


 

Hello everyone, first post here and I'm about to join the Felder family with a K945s and an AD941.? My workshop has a wooden floor. The wood is rather thick, about 30mm and it lays on cross strips (about 20mm thick) then straight on concrete. The k945s is coming in a few weeks and in order to properly cater for its weight (900kg) Im thinking of pulling up 2m2 of the floor and pouring concrete on top of the old concrete base. The workshop is ground floor and there is nothing underneath so I would say the concrete under the wood is also the base level of the building. The new pour will be about 50mm thick. What is your view on this? Ive never layed concrete before so any good advice you could give would be super helpful or even a guide on how to properly do it. The other option would be to put a steel plate under the table saw but I want to be 100% that the solution will support the weight and also to be fully level. Many thanks!


 

How thick is the existing concrete slab, and in what condition is it? You could use a masonry drill bit to probe the floor. Depending on the subgrade stiffness your current slab may be sufficient.

Casting a small thin overlay is difficult for inexperienced people, and not easy for professionals. There are three things that are necessary: making high-quality concrete, which is difficult for small quantities; preparing the surface to bond the new concrete to the old material; and finishing and curing the concrete properly. Fail any of those three and your new tool will sit on a 50-mm layer of rubble that sits on the old concrete.

If your concrete slab is more than 75-mm thick, add adjustable feet to your machine and put it on the wood floor. If the slab cracks enough to settle the machine you can correct it.

Abmore conservative approach is to have a steel fabricator make a 150-mm square by 50-mm thick steel plate for each machine foot and set each plate on the concrete. If the concrete is not level, bed the plates in epoxy to make them level. You will still need leveling feet for the machine.

I have a similar issue coming up this fall when my new Kappa 450X show up. My slab is about 4¡± thick with no wood floor. I will not modify the slab unless I have a problem with the old slab.

For what it is worth, I have designed acres upon acres of concrete overlays on concrete slabs as a structural engineer - mostly bridge decks, but also industrial floors.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID USA
K700S and A941


 

Richard,

Welcome to the Forum and congratulations on your acquisitions - nice machines!

While I do not know whether you need to reinforce the current flooring to accommodate your saw, I understand how your concrete pad would give you peace of mind.

Have you considered an approach whereby you would build the pad with 50mm lumber sitting directly on your concrete floor? This might be easier to do than handling the concrete job and, as an added bonus, would provide you with an excellent opportunity to put your AD941 to work. ? Just a thought.

Jacques


 

this was indeed my first idea to cut out the old floor and replace it with 2 or 3 sheets of plywood and put some steel sheets under the legs so it would be stable, but since the price on concrete is so cheep I thought I would ask if its as simple as mix / pour / happy, but based on John's response I will definitely not consider it. The other option is to put the a larger steel plate straight on the wooden floor. I think that would also be a good option since this wood is pretty solid, not this new mdf laminte sheets, but probably will end up cutting it up anyways just to see whats underneath and rebuilt it to be stronger. Thanks a lot for all the suggestions!


 

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I want set a buss 40 inch planer that was about 7 ft.? and at the time I owned a building that used to be a creamery so the floor wasn¡¯t exactly perfect and so I would make angle steel iron frames oversize of the machine then grind them so that they sat on the floor flush and then grouted in with a stiff, hard concrete. I¡¯ve done that a few times one for a large Mattson drop bed molder also that probably was 12 to 15 feet long and 6 feet wide and the same scenario so that worked very good .

Mac,,



martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-332-2330?cell

Designing and building for 50 years


On Apr 20, 2024, at 9:59?AM, richard.csizmazia via groups.io <richard.csizmazia@...> wrote:

?this was indeed my first idea to cut out the old floor and replace it with 2 or 3 sheets of plywood and put some steel sheets under the legs so it would be stable, but since the price on concrete is so cheep I thought I would ask if its as simple as mix / pour / happy, but based on John's response I will definitely not consider it. The other option is to put the a larger steel plate straight on the wooden floor. I think that would also be a good option since this wood is pretty solid, not this new mdf laminte sheets, but probably will end up cutting it up anyways just to see whats underneath and rebuilt it to be stronger. Thanks a lot for all the suggestions!


 

Super heavy equipment often have steel pads that are placed under the adjustable feet to distribute pressure across broader area. The items you propose are light in point loads by comparison. I'd think you be fine with steel foot cups on the smaller side....1 picture show a foot that's loaded with 1250kgs on 3mm thick rectangular pad, other photo is a foot loaded with 800kg and thicker 20mm round foot plate. I keep an ad941 with softwood door shim boards for feet and a ks700sp with oak blocks? to shom a low spot on floor and never a complaint.

Much easier to shim over the load on a wood floor than cut up a nice coniuous floor and pouring pads that will one say limit your options.

On Sat, Apr 20, 2024, 10:13?AM mac campshure via <mac512002=[email protected]> wrote:
I want set a buss 40 inch planer that was about 7 ft.? and at the time I owned a building that used to be a creamery so the floor wasn¡¯t exactly perfect and so I would make angle steel iron frames oversize of the machine then grind them so that they sat on the floor flush and then grouted in with a stiff, hard concrete. I¡¯ve done that a few times one for a large Mattson drop bed molder also that probably was 12 to 15 feet long and 6 feet wide and the same scenario so that worked very good .

Mac,,



martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-332-2330?cell

Designing and building for 50 years


On Apr 20, 2024, at 9:59?AM, richard.csizmazia via <richard.csizmazia=[email protected]> wrote:

?this was indeed my first idea to cut out the old floor and replace it with 2 or 3 sheets of plywood and put some steel sheets under the legs so it would be stable, but since the price on concrete is so cheep I thought I would ask if its as simple as mix / pour / happy, but based on John's response I will definitely not consider it. The other option is to put the a larger steel plate straight on the wooden floor. I think that would also be a good option since this wood is pretty solid, not this new mdf laminte sheets, but probably will end up cutting it up anyways just to see whats underneath and rebuilt it to be stronger. Thanks a lot for all the suggestions!


 

??? I will agree with John that making a 50mm slab of concrete is not really all that easy if you've never done it before. However, there are chemical additives easily available online to add to concrete and formulas that will make very high psi concrete easily. Water reducer, extra cement and the proper fiber are your friends in this case definitely.? Mixing might be somewhat of a problem depending on how much you need. Having said that, I think I might consider using flat steel bar under the feet. something like 3" or 4" x 3/8" or even 1/2"? thick on top of your existing flooring.? If there are 4 legs then two bars the distance of the feet plus 2 to 4 inches more would seem like enough to support the load. This is if you're existing floor is plywood or something fairly level now. If the flooring is boards over sleepers then you could of course plane down the flooring so that the steel sits fairly flat.? I guess you don't say or know what the spacing of the sleepers is under the flooring. If it's more than 16" then I would use 1/2" (13 mm)? thick steel. I am by no means a structural engineer, but I'm pretty sure that 13 mm thick bar would handle very heavy loads. If your flooring is not very stable now, you could cut it out down to the concrete and use pressure treated wood to build it up solid to the steel. And if you're existing concrete is think enough, the steel would not be necessary as 50 mm of wood is pretty stiff in itself.? Tom Ruth.


 

Thanks a lot for this, I also considered filling it up to level with some proper plywood and add some steel plate under the legs, this seems to be by far the easiest option. The base is definitely good, so no issues there.


 

Richard,

As machinery goes, 900 kg is really not much weight. 225 kg at each support leg, which admittedly is a concentrated?load point but with the underlying structure?
of 30 mm decking that is supported by sleepers on a concrete slab, supported by the soil, it should be ample (IMHO). If you did place a piece of plywood under the machine to level the floor, that would also assist in spreading the load.

Tim House

On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 3:00?PM richard.csizmazia via <richard.csizmazia=[email protected]> wrote:

Thanks a lot for this, I also considered filling it up to level with some proper plywood and add some steel plate under the legs, this seems to be by far the easiest option. The base is definitely good, so no issues there.


 

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Agree with Tim. ?

At most drill a 3/16¡± hole and fill the sleeper cavity with closed cell foam in the vicinity of the load points.

Mike


On Apr 20, 2024, at 6:47?PM, Tim House via groups.io <casabueno@...> wrote:

?
Richard,

As machinery goes, 900 kg is really not much weight. 225 kg at each support leg, which admittedly is a concentrated?load point but with the underlying structure?
of 30 mm decking that is supported by sleepers on a concrete slab, supported by the soil, it should be ample (IMHO). If you did place a piece of plywood under the machine to level the floor, that would also assist in spreading the load.

Tim House

On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 3:00?PM richard.csizmazia via <richard.csizmazia=[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks a lot for this, I also considered filling it up to level with some proper plywood and add some steel plate under the legs, this seems to be by far the easiest option. The base is definitely good, so no issues there.