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Electrical question

Tom Morris
 

I have recently moved my shop and I'm in the process of wiring the new
space. I also need to extend the cord on my KF700 single phase saw.
Current the power cord is 10/3 wire. When I went to Lowe's the "expert"
told me I need a 10/4 cord for 220. Are European tools wired
differently? Is it safe to use a 10/3 and make the white and black
wires both hot and use the green for a ground?

Any help would be appreciated.

Tom (I'm not an electrician) Morris
 

Hi Tom,
10/3 is what you want for your 1 phase unit, 2 hots 1green ground . mac,,,,

Tom Morris <tmorris13@...> wrote:
I have recently moved my shop and I'm in the process of wiring the new
space. I also need to extend the cord on my KF700 single phase saw.
Current the power cord is 10/3 wire. When I went to Lowe's the "expert"
told me I need a 10/4 cord for 220. Are European tools wired
differently? Is it safe to use a 10/3 and make the white and black
wires both hot and use the green for a ground?

Any help would be appreciated.

Tom (I'm not an electrician) Morris






mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-831-4467 phone
608-332-2330 cell
mac512002@...


---------------------------------
8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
Tom Morris
 

Thanks Mac!

Glad to hear from you. I've been off line for about 3 months during
our move but I'm finally get things back to normal.

Hope you are enjoying life away from Felder.

Tom


--- In felder-woodworking@..., mac campshure
<mac512002@...> wrote:

Hi Tom,
10/3 is what you want for your 1 phase unit, 2 hots 1green
ground . mac,,,,

Tom Morris <tmorris13@...> wrote:
I have recently moved my shop and I'm in the process of
wiring the new
space. I also need to extend the cord on my KF700 single phase saw.
Current the power cord is 10/3 wire. When I went to Lowe's
the "expert"
told me I need a 10/4 cord for 220. Are European tools wired
differently? Is it safe to use a 10/3 and make the white and black
wires both hot and use the green for a ground?

Any help would be appreciated.

Tom (I'm not an electrician) Morris






mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-831-4467 phone
608-332-2330 cell
mac512002@...


---------------------------------
8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 

Yes, 10-3 is fine, and 208 is absolutly the most common 3 phase voltage.?
First, is possible there is 480/277 (those are two voltages that are part of the same system, like 120/208; if you have one you tend to have the other) in your building, but in order to get down to 120 volts it would run to a transformer and get dropped to either 120/208?3-phase?or, more rarely, 120/240 3-phase.?

Your saw will run fine on 208 or 240 3 phase most likely.?
?
 

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This is a complete guess, but at 400 amps, you most likely have 208. Three phase in commercial areas is almost exclusively 208 or 440, and you don’t usually see 440 until you get into 800 amps or more… at least that has been my experience in industrial machine shops. The 277V is usually a lighting circuit…. not sure why they settled on that voltage, but the larger HID and Fluorescent fixtures are usually 277V. If you don’t have 440V, then you could get a step up transformer…. but that’s expensive and inefficient, so if you have 208, spec your machines at 208, almost all machines have transformer inside that you change the connections on to adjust for the incoming voltage in the 208-240 range, some machines are even dual voltage in the 208-440 range.

Best to get an electrician to double check, and for what it is worth, by code, we had to have a Voltage and Amperage label on our main panel.

Brian Lamb




On Dec 6, 2016, at 8:45 PM, GLEN chris3645@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:


I have a question regarding 3 phase power, as some of you know I am trying to decide between Felder and Martin. A s I am trying to work out the little details, I am questioning the power that my new building really has. I was told I have 400 amps but I was not told what the 3 phase is< 208,277,240,or 480. I called an electical contractor in the area to find out but have not heard back. I talked to my electrician here and over a very broken cell phone conection he tried to explain the differences are and how the can be manipulated to the machines I want to buy.
My bottom line ..It was way over my head.
The building I am renting the landlord thinks its 208 I don't think that is correct.
?
Any help would be greatly appreciated

I am looking at Format machines for the shop but my largest machine is 230/19 kw @ 25 HP

Thank you all?
Glen?


-----Original Message-----
From: Marlowe McGraw?marlomcgraw@...?[felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...>
To: felder-woodworking <felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Tue, Dec 6, 2016 7:18 pm
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Standard motor ok for VFD?

?
Thanks Brian,
I will likely feed at the same range as original.? Should be the highest speed when I couple the motor to the gearbox?

Marlowe

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:05 PM, Brian Lamb?blamb11@...?[felder-woodworking]?<felder-woodworking@...>?wrote:
?
Pretty much any current manufacture motor will run on a VFD, the trick is how much above and below the standard 60hz you can run. I would say from 30hz to 120hz on most motors. My CNC mill runs from 10hz or so on the low end to 200 hz on the high, and I’ve seen some inverter rated motors that run up to 400hz. You just need to determine how much over/under speed ratio you want to accomplish the feeds you need, and see if that works for your motor.

Brian Lamb




On Dec 6, 2016, at 7:36 PM, Marlowe McGraw?marlomcgraw@...?[felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


I am considering replacing an uber complex mechanical variable speed drive (feed system on a Griggio planer) with a VFD.? I already bought a new C faced 3 phase motor and have a drive that will work , but was wondering if it needs to be a motor of any special duty rating, etc.

Marlowe McGraw?
 

Brian, you mentioned you didn't know where 277volts came from, I posted a photo that shows how the different voltages are derived from the various systems. I'm not sure how to post a link to that photo however.


?
GLEN
 

Thank you Brian, I think am staring to understand?



-----Original Message-----
From: brian@... [felder-woodworking]
To: felder-woodworking
Sent: Tue, Dec 6, 2016 9:40 pm
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Electrical question

?
Yes, 10-3 is fine, and 208 is absolutly the most common 3 phase voltage.?
First, is possible there is 480/277 (those are two voltages that are part of the same system, like 120/208; if you have one you tend to have the other) in your building, but in order to get down to 120 volts it would run to a transformer and get dropped to either 120/208?3-phase?or, more rarely, 120/240 3-phase.?

Your saw will run fine on 208 or 240 3 phase most likely.?
?
GLEN
 

I could not open what you sent but would love to see it for my learning curve
Glen



-----Original Message-----
From: brian@... [felder-woodworking]
To: felder-woodworking
Sent: Wed, Dec 7, 2016 8:35 pm
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Electrical question

?
Brian, you mentioned you didn't know where 277volts came from, I posted a photo that shows how the different voltages are derived from the various systems. I'm not sure how to post a link to that photo however.


?
 

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OK, so it is derived from a single leg to neutral in a 480V system. I knew I had only seen it in larger commercial buildings where they were 480V systems. When we built a new shop the electricians asked if we wanted 120V or 277V lighting and told us we’d need a step up transformer to use the 277V. I understood that the savings on the 277V came into play when you have enough square feet that you are running a lot of wire and can decrease the wire size due to the higher voltage.

Brian Lamb




On Dec 7, 2016, at 9:34 PM, brian@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

Brian, you mentioned you didn't know where 277volts came from, I posted a photo that shows how the different voltages are derived from the various systems. I'm not sure how to post a link to that photo however.



?
 

You need a large number of lighting fixtures before 277v starts to make any sense, and LED will make that even less of an advantage.
 

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Yes, it appears LED will make a huge difference in lighting in the future. Fortunately I have skylights in my shop and rarely even turn lights on….

Brian Lamb




On Dec 8, 2016, at 8:29 AM, brian@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

You need a large number of lighting fixtures before 277v starts to make any sense, and LED will make that even less of an advantage.
 

I'll try to provide a more effective link.
Something you may run into that is very basic but has not been brought up- when moving a 3 phase motor from one electrical system to another it can be very hard to predict which way the motor will spin. If your blade spins the wrong direction just swap any two wires.

Brian(J)
 

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Brian,

If you are using 3 phase with a stinger leg or manufactured leg it is important not to feed the that leg into the control circuitry so you should swap the two legs that are not the stinger or manufactured leg to reverse direction.

Recently I moved the circuit breaker for my Planer from the left side of the 3 phase panel to the right side with out moving any of the wires. ?It took me a minute to figure out what happened the first time I used the planer and the cutterhead was running backwards. ?

Moving the circuit breaker caused the outside wires to swap phases in the three phase supply.

Whoops! ?Luckily I was planing a small stick so no damage was done to the Tersa knives or cutter head.

Joe in New Orleans






On Dec 8, 2016, at 9:45 AM, brian@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

I'll try to provide a more effective link.

Something you may run into that is very basic but has not been brought up- when moving a 3 phase motor from one electrical system to another it can be very hard to predict which way the motor will spin. If your blade spins the wrong direction just swap any two wires.

Brian(J)

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