ctrl + shift + ? :
Show all keyboard shortcuts
ctrl + g :
Navigate to a group
esc to dismiss
Combi-Core or MDF Skin Plywood
|
Had a private conversation with Brett Wissel little while ago and for paint grade he recommended plywood with MDF/HDF skins. Combi-core is also an option. Problem is that no one in Indianapolis stocks these but they will order it. This means I must be completely certain about what I am ordering. ? Here is what I am after: ? Size = 4x8 Prefer 1” thickness but settle for ?” Wood core is necessary due to Murphy bed HW I would really like it to come primed ? Ideally, I would like enough detail so that I can place the order. ? Thanks, ? Imran Malik IAM Wood Creations
?
|
Imran, I don’t like CombiCore because it has MDF layers which tend to dent when struck and are susceptible to moisture turning to oatmeal when wet. ?I use it only when doing custom veneer layups.
Have you considered Medium Density Overlay (MDO)? ?This has all wood layers like plywood but is sanded smooth and covered with special paper on both sides as part of the laminate. ?It’s smooth like MDF and doesn’t need sanding. ? I love the stuff for paint-grade projects because it takes screws and glue like plywood, but is also paint ready like MDF. ? | |
David Best - via mobile phone?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 22, 2025, at 8:24?AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?
Had a private conversation with Brett Wissel little while ago and for paint grade he recommended plywood with MDF/HDF skins. Combi-core is also an option. Problem is that no one in Indianapolis stocks these but they will order it. This means I must be completely certain about what I am ordering.
?
Here is what I am after:
?
Size = 4x8
Prefer 1” thickness but settle for ?”
Wood core is necessary due to Murphy bed HW
I would really like it to come primed
?
Ideally, I would like enough detail so that I can place the order.
?
Thanks,
?
Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations
?
David,
Thanks for combo-core fdbk. I used MDO for my shop door with good results. Just not sure if I want to use it for a cabinet project if I have another option.
I assume you would have similar view of MDF/HDF skinned product. I am not sure if it is easier to dent MDF/HDF vs let’s say popular or birch plywood. Moisture should not be a major concern in bed room.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 22, 2025, at 12:08?PM, David P. Best via groups.io <dbestworkshop@...> wrote: ? Imran, I don’t like CombiCore because it has MDF layers which tend to dent when struck and are susceptible to moisture turning to oatmeal when wet. ?I use it only when doing custom veneer layups.
Have you considered Medium Density Overlay (MDO)? ?This has all wood layers like plywood but is sanded smooth and covered with special paper on both sides as part of the laminate. ?It’s smooth like MDF and doesn’t need sanding. ? I love the stuff for paint-grade projects because it takes screws and glue like plywood, but is also paint ready like MDF. ? | |
David Best - via mobile phone?
On Feb 22, 2025, at 8:24?AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?
Had a private conversation with Brett Wissel little while ago and for paint grade he recommended plywood with MDF/HDF skins. Combi-core is also an option. Problem is that no one in Indianapolis stocks these but they will order it. This means I must be completely certain about what I am ordering.
?
Here is what I am after:
?
Size = 4x8
Prefer 1” thickness but settle for ?”
Wood core is necessary due to Murphy bed HW
I would really like it to come primed
?
Ideally, I would like enough detail so that I can place the order.
?
Thanks,
?
Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations
?
Imran, coincidentally, I spent Saturday in a veneering workshop, and one of the incidentals that came up in conversation (as these things do - that is the joy of such events) was the addition of 3mm MDF skins to an 18mm cheap ply core to form shelving (which we all know is succeptible to sagging over time). I was able to compare the difference of ply alone with added MDF skins (in both cases, including solid wood edging). It was astounding how much rigidity the MDF version added. Is this due to the MDF or added glue, or both? For painted or veneered shelving, this is a serious option.?
Regards from Perth
?
Derek
|
If this is for a paint grade cabinet door center panel I would just use mdf.
Imran, coincidentally, I spent Saturday in a veneering workshop, and one of the incidentals that came up in conversation (as these things do - that is the joy of such events) was the addition of 3mm MDF skins to an 18mm cheap ply core to form shelving (which we all know is succeptible to sagging over time). I was able to compare the difference of ply alone with added MDF skins (in both cases, including solid wood edging). It was astounding how much rigidity the MDF version added. Is this due to the MDF or added glue, or both? For painted or veneered shelving, this is a serious option.?
Regards from Perth
?
Derek
|
Derek, the difference in stiffness may be due largely to the increased thickness of the section. You went from 18mm thick to 24mm thick. Stiffness of a rectangular section is proportional to the cube of the thickness.
?
24 cubed divided by 18 cubed is 2.37, so the stiffness of the thicker board is about 2 1/3 times the stiffness of the thinner board.
?
If the stiffness (Modular’s of elasticity, E) of the MDF is greater or lesser than the stiffness of the plywood that will affect the calculation.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID USA
Kappa 450X and A941
|
Imran, i too would just go with MDF, if you're worried about moisture, then you could go with a moisture resistant version. The nice thing about the MDF or HDF skin is the surface you have for painting is awesome and it's much lighter than regular MDF. There is however a lightweight version of MDF (Off the top of my head i believe it's called Ultralight and comes out of New Zealand) It's about the same weight as regular plywood, so is much easier on the back!
As David said, MDO is another option, just make sure to pick up some edgebanding to go with it, so you can do the edges in the same and have the same finish on them too once painted.
Derek, I would imagine the extra stiffness is likely as much a result of the lamination of the 3mm MDF as it is the MDF itself. If you look at how flimsy 3mm MDF is in that thickness, i'm going to say it's more bendy than the equivalent thickness of a solid timber, at least when you're flexing it along the grain. The glue joint thought will definitely add stiffness to it. That's partly why i laminate door stiles a lot. It adds lots of stiffness and results in a stile that's much less susceptable to movement.
Regards,
Bryce
--
https://www.brycecomerwoodworks.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHdrRaAZd_pOa7wwbdNPUEw
|
Perhaps I got the requirements wrong, but I thought you said the material needed to be:
Size = 4x8
Prefer 1” thickness but settle for ?”
Wood core is necessary due to Murphy bed HWI would really like it to come primed
The wood core and hardware attachment requirement rules out MDF or HDF IMO. ?I still think MDO is your best bet here. ?Combi or MDF skinned Plywood is susceptible to edge damage during handling since the MDF skin is thin and easily bruised and dented along the edges - been there, done that. ?So why risk it with Combi when MDO provides a paint-ready surface??
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Feb 22, 2025, at 9:55?AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
David,
Thanks for combo-core fdbk. I used MDO for my shop door with good results. Just not sure if I want to use it for a cabinet project if I have another option.
I assume you would have similar view of MDF/HDF skinned product. I am not sure if it is easier to dent MDF/HDF vs let’s say popular or birch plywood. Moisture should not be a major concern in bed room. ?Imran, I don’t like CombiCore because it has MDF layers which tend to dent when struck and are susceptible to moisture turning to oatmeal when wet. ?I use it only when doing custom veneer layups.
Have you considered Medium Density Overlay (MDO)? ?This has all wood layers like plywood but is sanded smooth and covered with special paper on both sides as part of the laminate. ?It’s smooth like MDF and doesn’t need sanding. ? I love the stuff for paint-grade projects because it takes screws and glue like plywood, but is also paint ready like MDF. ?
| |
David Best - via mobile phone?
?
Had a private conversation with Brett Wissel little while ago and for paint grade he recommended plywood with MDF/HDF skins. Combi-core is also an option. Problem is that no one in Indianapolis stocks these but they will order it. This means I must be completely certain about what I am ordering.
?
Here is what I am after:
?
Size = 4x8
Prefer 1” thickness but settle for ?”
Wood core is necessary due to Murphy bed HW
I would really like it to come primed
?
Ideally, I would like enough detail so that I can place the order.
?
Thanks,
?
Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations
?
?Hi Jared,
This is for the 13.5’ long floor to ceiling cabinet cases. There is?5.5’ width Murphy bed in the middle and ~4’ wide cabinets on each side.?Doors will be solid wood frame a panel.
Here is a draft of what it looks like:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 22, 2025, at 7:37?PM, Jared Sankovich via groups.io <Sankovichj@...> wrote: ? If this is for a paint grade cabinet door center panel I would just use mdf.
Imran, coincidentally, I spent Saturday in a veneering workshop, and one of the incidentals that came up in conversation (as these things do - that is the joy of such events) was the addition of 3mm MDF skins to an 18mm cheap ply core to form shelving (which we all know is succeptible to sagging over time). I was able to compare the difference of ply alone with added MDF skins (in both cases, including solid wood edging). It was astounding how much rigidity the MDF version added. Is this due to the MDF or added glue, or both? For painted or veneered shelving, this is a serious option.?
Regards from Perth
?
Derek
|
I had Columbia Classic Core warp like crazy a few times years ago. I'm very wary of it now. Stick with MDF unless the CC is held in a frame in my opinion.
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
For paint-grade cabinet doors, I used software maple for stile/rail and 1/4" thick MDF for the panel.
James
On Sun, Feb 23, 2025 at 8:49?AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ?Hi Jared,
This is for the 13.5’ long floor to ceiling cabinet cases. There is?5.5’ width Murphy bed in the middle and ~4’ wide cabinets on each side.?Doors will be solid wood frame a panel.
Here is a draft of what it looks like:
On Feb 22, 2025, at 7:37?PM, Jared Sankovich via <Sankovichj= [email protected]> wrote: ? If this is for a paint grade cabinet door center panel I would just use mdf.
Imran, coincidentally, I spent Saturday in a veneering workshop, and one of the incidentals that came up in conversation (as these things do - that is the joy of such events) was the addition of 3mm MDF skins to an 18mm cheap ply core to form shelving (which we all know is succeptible to sagging over time). I was able to compare the difference of ply alone with added MDF skins (in both cases, including solid wood edging). It was astounding how much rigidity the MDF version added. Is this due to the MDF or added glue, or both? For painted or veneered shelving, this is a serious option.?
Regards from Perth
?
Derek
|
Sorry, I didn't read enough of the original post with my mdf reply. I would just use 3/4" maple plywood for the carcass.? If you wanted primed, I would be inclined to get UV2 instead.
Those 48" wide shelves and cabinet floors will need some additional support to keep from sagging.
For paint-grade cabinet doors, I used software maple for stile/rail and 1/4" thick MDF for the panel.
James
On Sun, Feb 23, 2025 at 8:49?AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ?Hi Jared,
This is for the 13.5’ long floor to ceiling cabinet cases. There is?5.5’ width Murphy bed in the middle and ~4’ wide cabinets on each side.?Doors will be solid wood frame a panel.
Here is a draft of what it looks like:
On Feb 22, 2025, at 7:37?PM, Jared Sankovich via <Sankovichj= [email protected]> wrote: ? If this is for a paint grade cabinet door center panel I would just use mdf.
Imran, coincidentally, I spent Saturday in a veneering workshop, and one of the incidentals that came up in conversation (as these things do - that is the joy of such events) was the addition of 3mm MDF skins to an 18mm cheap ply core to form shelving (which we all know is succeptible to sagging over time). I was able to compare the difference of ply alone with added MDF skins (in both cases, including solid wood edging). It was astounding how much rigidity the MDF version added. Is this due to the MDF or added glue, or both? For painted or veneered shelving, this is a serious option.?
Regards from Perth
?
Derek
|
Hi Bryce,?
I assume you mean MDF/HDF skinned ply, even though you mentioned just MDF/HDF in the beginning but then you say, “The nice thing about the MDF or HDF skin is the surface you have for painting is awesome and it's much lighter than regular MDF”. Then you mention that edge banding for MDO as if it wouldn’t be required for MDF skinned.
I do intend to do solid wood edge treatment where visible. I am leaning towards solid wood shelves as well. Doors will be solid wood.
Jason, Regular MDF is not an option due to hardware used by MDF. Manufacturer specifies ply and does not recommend even solid wood.
David, MDO is definitely an option. I just have not heard of it used for projects like this and that could be just my ignorance. I have used it before and would like to get a new experience with MDF skinned ply. If damage to the edges, ?during transportation, is the only concern, I can handle it as the edges will be trimmed and edge banded. Longest piece, I need is 91 inch and I have few inches to spare across the width as well.
I am also interested in learning about any differences in the core between MDO and MDF skinned product. Better core will be most important as both surfaces are good for painting. I am assuming both might be available in 1” thickness and that could be the deciding factor.
Appreciate all feedback. No mention of primed product yet.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 23, 2025, at 8:53?AM, Jason Holtz via groups.io <jholtzy@...> wrote: ? I had Columbia Classic Core warp like crazy a few times years ago. I'm very wary of it now. Stick with MDF unless the CC is held in a frame in my opinion.
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Hi Jared,
?
Based on the feedback here there will be 3 vertical supports, so the shelves will be around 2’ wide.
?
Here is another design based upon my sister in law desire to make the uppers not as deep but we both did not like how it turned out. It would be better with two open shelves to make the upper part less heavy.
?
?
?
On Feb 23, 2025, at 9:20?AM, Jared Sankovich via groups.io <Sankovichj@...> wrote:
Sorry, I didn't read enough of the original post with my mdf reply. I would just use 3/4" maple plywood for the carcass.? If you wanted primed, I would be inclined to get UV2 instead.
Those 48" wide shelves and cabinet floors will need some additional support to keep from sagging.
For paint-grade cabinet doors, I used software maple for stile/rail and 1/4" thick MDF for the panel.
?
James
?
On Sun, Feb 23, 2025 at 8:49?AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote:
Hi Jared,
?
This is for the 13.5’ long floor to ceiling cabinet cases. There is?5.5’ width Murphy bed in the middle and ~4’ wide cabinets on each side.?Doors will be solid wood frame a panel.
?
Here is a draft of what it looks like:
?
On Feb 22, 2025, at 7:37?PM, Jared Sankovich via <Sankovichj= [email protected]> wrote:
If this is for a paint grade cabinet door center panel I would just use mdf.
Imran, coincidentally, I spent Saturday in a veneering workshop, and one of the incidentals that came up in conversation (as these things do - that is the joy of such events) was the addition of 3mm MDF skins to an 18mm cheap ply core to form shelving (which we all know is succeptible to sagging over time). I was able to compare the difference of ply alone with added MDF skins (in both cases, including solid wood edging). It was astounding how much rigidity the MDF version added. Is this due to the MDF or added glue, or both? For painted or veneered shelving, this is a serious option.?
Regards from Perth
?
Derek
?
?
?
?
?
?
|
James,
MDF panel is an option for the door panel. Much less work.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 23, 2025, at 9:10?AM, James Zhu via groups.io <james.zhu2@...> wrote: ? For paint-grade cabinet doors, I used software maple for stile/rail and 1/4" thick MDF for the panel.
James
On Sun, Feb 23, 2025 at 8:49?AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ?Hi Jared,
This is for the 13.5’ long floor to ceiling cabinet cases. There is?5.5’ width Murphy bed in the middle and ~4’ wide cabinets on each side.?Doors will be solid wood frame a panel.
Here is a draft of what it looks like:
On Feb 22, 2025, at 7:37?PM, Jared Sankovich via <Sankovichj= [email protected]> wrote: ? If this is for a paint grade cabinet door center panel I would just use mdf.
Imran, coincidentally, I spent Saturday in a veneering workshop, and one of the incidentals that came up in conversation (as these things do - that is the joy of such events) was the addition of 3mm MDF skins to an 18mm cheap ply core to form shelving (which we all know is succeptible to sagging over time). I was able to compare the difference of ply alone with added MDF skins (in both cases, including solid wood edging). It was astounding how much rigidity the MDF version added. Is this due to the MDF or added glue, or both? For painted or veneered shelving, this is a serious option.?
Regards from Perth
?
Derek
|
Imran told me the 48" wide shelves are for books, I recommended the torsion box (1" or 1.25", I prefer 1.25") shelves.
For the painted finish, I have a Fuji Q5 (bought in 2017, now the price is up 50% compared to 2017 price) and get great results. I have seen professional woodworkers get great results using low cost Graco Magnum X5 airless sprayer from home depot.
James
On Sun, Feb 23, 2025 at 9:20?AM Jared Sankovich via <Sankovichj= [email protected]> wrote: Sorry, I didn't read enough of the original post with my mdf reply. I would just use 3/4" maple plywood for the carcass.? If you wanted primed, I would be inclined to get UV2 instead.
Those 48" wide shelves and cabinet floors will need some additional support to keep from sagging.
For paint-grade cabinet doors, I used software maple for stile/rail and 1/4" thick MDF for the panel.
James
On Sun, Feb 23, 2025 at 8:49?AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ?Hi Jared,
This is for the 13.5’ long floor to ceiling cabinet cases. There is?5.5’ width Murphy bed in the middle and ~4’ wide cabinets on each side.?Doors will be solid wood frame a panel.
Here is a draft of what it looks like:
On Feb 22, 2025, at 7:37?PM, Jared Sankovich via <Sankovichj= [email protected]> wrote: ? If this is for a paint grade cabinet door center panel I would just use mdf.
Imran, coincidentally, I spent Saturday in a veneering workshop, and one of the incidentals that came up in conversation (as these things do - that is the joy of such events) was the addition of 3mm MDF skins to an 18mm cheap ply core to form shelving (which we all know is succeptible to sagging over time). I was able to compare the difference of ply alone with added MDF skins (in both cases, including solid wood edging). It was astounding how much rigidity the MDF version added. Is this due to the MDF or added glue, or both? For painted or veneered shelving, this is a serious option.?
Regards from Perth
?
Derek
|
imran
David P. Best
Bryce Comer
Jason Holtz