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CF741 Won't Start

 

I’ve got a 2005 CF741SP with the 7.5 HP 3-phase motors hooked up to a PhasePerfect converter. I’ve been using it for years in the same configuration. Everything was functioning normally as I planed a piece of wood and made a few cuts on the saw. When I tried to use the saw for another cut, it wouldn’t start. I thought there might be an offcut jamming the blade, but that wasn’t the case. I checked all the limit switches and they seemed fine. I twisted the function selector knob a few times, thinking it might not be making contact. When all that failed, I used the power switch to turn off the CF, then turned off the phase converter. I waited for several minutes and tried again, to no avail. I tried again this morning with everything off overnight, and no change.

The phase converter is working, because my RL160 and bandsaw work just fine. On the CF, the digital readouts light up, but the only thing electrical functioning is the up and down motion of the shaper. Selecting reverse for the shaper does not illuminate the yellow light. The PowerDrive for the planer does not work.

I opened up the electrical panel on the CF and can see the green light on the Lenze VFD is on. When the CF main power switch is turned on, I get the usual high-pitched squeal and the humming of the VFD for a minute or two. The VFD does seem to hum (sounds like a fan) for longer than it used to on startup.

As you can tell from the above, I’m not much of an electrical expert. I’d appreciate some insights and suggestions as to what to check. I’m guessing that something isn’t right with the Lenze VFD, or maybe the function selector switch might be bad.

I can certainly give Felder a call, but I thought I’d run this by the group. I know that others have had similar situations in the past, but I’m having difficulty finding the old threads.

Thanks for any help.

Thomas
 

Isn't there a little fuse on the bottom of the saw under the power switch?
Dave

On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 8:13 AM, Thomas Haar thhaar@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

?

I’ve got a 2005 CF741SP with the 7.5 HP 3-phase motors hooked up to a PhasePerfect converter. I’ve been using it for years in the same configuration. Everything was functioning normally as I planed a piece of wood and made a few cuts on the saw. When I tried to use the saw for another cut, it wouldn’t start. I thought there might be an offcut jamming the blade, but that wasn’t the case. I checked all the limit switches and they seemed fine. I twisted the function selector knob a few times, thinking it might not be making contact. When all that failed, I used the power switch to turn off the CF, then turned off the phase converter. I waited for several minutes and tried again, to no avail. I tried again this morning with everything off overnight, and no change.

The phase converter is working, because my RL160 and bandsaw work just fine. On the CF, the digital readouts light up, but the only thing electrical functioning is the up and down motion of the shaper. Selecting reverse for the shaper does not illuminate the yellow light. The PowerDrive for the planer does not work.

I opened up the electrical panel on the CF and can see the green light on the Lenze VFD is on. When the CF main power switch is turned on, I get the usual high-pitched squeal and the humming of the VFD for a minute or two. The VFD does seem to hum (sounds like a fan) for longer than it used to on startup.

As you can tell from the above, I’m not much of an electrical expert. I’d appreciate some insights and suggestions as to what to check. I’m guessing that something isn’t right with the Lenze VFD, or maybe the function selector switch might be bad.

I can certainly give Felder a call, but I thought I’d run this by the group. I know that others have had similar situations in the past, but I’m having difficulty finding the old threads.

Thanks for any help.

Thomas




--
Dave & Marie Davies

318-219-7868
 

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If you are not getting the yellow indicator light when in reverse on the shaper, then that usually means you have something open in the e-stop string. Check all the microswitches, make sure the steel cover over the blade area is in the right place. You have multiple switches on the planer section, also make sure the mushroom shaped e-stop switch is twisted and pops out.

If nothing physically looks wrong, you will have to get a continuity tester and start checking for where the e-stop string is open.

Brian Lamb




On Jan 27, 2017, at 7:13 AM, Thomas Haar thhaar@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

I’ve got a 2005 CF741SP with the 7.5 HP 3-phase motors hooked up to a PhasePerfect converter. I’ve been using it for years in the same configuration. Everything was functioning normally as I planed a piece of wood and made a few cuts on the saw. When I tried to use the saw for another cut, it wouldn’t start. I thought there might be an offcut jamming the blade, but that wasn’t the case. I checked all the limit switches and they seemed fine. I twisted the function selector knob a few times, thinking it might not be making contact. When all that failed, I used the power switch to turn off the CF, then turned off the phase converter. I waited for several minutes and tried again, to no avail. I tried again this morning with everything off overnight, and no change.

The phase converter is working, because my RL160 and bandsaw work just fine. On the CF, the digital readouts light up, but the only thing electrical functioning is the up and down motion of the shaper. Selecting reverse for the shaper does not illuminate the yellow light. The PowerDrive for the planer does not work.

I opened up the electrical panel on the CF and can see the green light on the Lenze VFD is on. When the CF main power switch is turned on, I get the usual high-pitched squeal and the humming of the VFD for a minute or two. The VFD does seem to hum (sounds like a fan) for longer than it used to on startup.

As you can tell from the above, I’m not much of an electrical expert. I’d appreciate some insights and suggestions as to what to check. I’m guessing that something isn’t right with the Lenze VFD, or maybe the function selector switch might be bad.

I can certainly give Felder a call, but I thought I’d run this by the group. I know that others have had similar situations in the past, but I’m having difficulty finding the old threads.

Thanks for any help.

Thomas
 

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OK, Brian, I will do a more thorough investigation of all those microswitches. ?I don’t really know how to check for continuity, although I get the idea. ?I’ll see what I can do.

Thanks,

Thomas




On Jan 27, 2017, at 9:42 AM, Brian Lamb blamb11@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

If you are not getting the yellow indicator light when in reverse on the shaper, then that usually means you have something open in the e-stop string. Check all the microswitches, make sure the steel cover over the blade area is in the right place. You have multiple switches on the planer section, also make sure the mushroom shaped e-stop switch is twisted and pops out.


If nothing physically looks wrong, you will have to get a continuity tester and start checking for where the e-stop string is open.
 

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I don’t know, Dave. ?I’ll check.

Thanks,

Thomas


On Jan 27, 2017, at 9:41 AM, David Davies myfinishingtouch@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:


Isn't there a little fuse on the bottom of the saw under the power switch?
Dave
 

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If you don’t find the problem quickly, call Felder technical support. ?They are pretty good at walking you through finding the problem.

Mike

On Jan 27, 2017, at 6:51 AM, Thomas Haar thhaar@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

I don’t know, Dave. ?I’ll check.


Thanks,

Thomas


On Jan 27, 2017, at 9:41 AM, David Davies?myfinishingtouch@...?[felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:


Isn't there a little fuse on the bottom of the saw under the power switch?
Dave
 

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Mike -

I called Felder and hope to receive a callback sometime soon.?

I found the “F10” near the floor - it seems to be a breaker for the lifting of the planer tables, if I understand the little picture by it. ?Pressing it yielded no results.

I cleaned the machine fairly thoroughly, and I verified that the limit switches under the sliding table and for the raised jointer beds were freely moving. ?I exercised the mushroom buttons and the function selector. ?No change. ?The yellow light for reverse shaper function still doesn’t light up, so Brian might very well be right. ?I’ll have to learn how to check for continuity. ?There’s never a good time, but it is probably a valuable skill to learn, so it might as well be now.

Thanks,

Thomas











On Jan 27, 2017, at 11:22 AM, MIKE KING habacomike@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

If you don’t find the problem quickly, call Felder technical support. ?They are pretty good at walking you through finding the problem.


Mike
On Jan 27, 2017, at 6:51 AM, Thomas Haar?thhaar@...?[felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

I don’t know, Dave. ?I’ll check.


Thanks,

Thomas


On Jan 27, 2017, at 9:41 AM, David Davies?myfinishingtouch@...?[felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:


Isn't there a little fuse on the bottom of the saw under the power switch?
Dave
 

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Well, I’m no electrician either, but you need to make sure the switches are actually working. I do that with my multi-tester set for continuity and then manually activate the switches to make sure they are working.

The E-stop string should be a complete loop electrically, all the switches are daisy-chained in the loop. Activate any one and it breaks the circuit and shuts the machine down. You are looking for the one that is “open” and keeping the machine from running. Sawdust takes it’s toll on these little switches over time...

Brian Lamb




On Jan 27, 2017, at 7:50 AM, Thomas Haar thhaar@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

OK, Brian, I will do a more thorough investigation of all those microswitches. ?I don’t really know how to check for continuity, although I get the idea. ?I’ll see what I can do.


Thanks,

Thomas




On Jan 27, 2017, at 9:42 AM, Brian Lamb?blamb11@...?[felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

If you are not getting the yellow indicator light when in reverse on the shaper, then that usually means you have something open in the e-stop string. Check all the microswitches, make sure the steel cover over the blade area is in the right place. You have multiple switches on the planer section, also make sure the mushroom shaped e-stop switch is twisted and pops out.


If nothing physically looks wrong, you will have to get a continuity tester and start checking for where the e-stop string is open.
 

Brian and others -

I got the call-back from Brian at Felder, and he walked me through checking the low-voltage circuits. He very patiently explained how and why we were doing the various checks, and he took time to walk me through the wiring diagram. We were able to locate the red stop button for the shaper as being the culprit. He told me I had gotten a nice long service life out of my switches. I ordered a replacement and spares for the other switches that often go bad. It’s already up and running again, so I’m happy.

I knew the issue would get resolved, eventually, but it’s great that it was resolved so quickly. I appreciate this group, and I really appreciate Brian at Felder. It’s easy to get upset when things go wrong, but I try to focus on learning something new. Felder Delaware deserves kudos for excellent technical support.

Thomas
 

if you just ordered the new switch how is it that it's up and running?

Agree with Felder tech support being great.? Some companies will only help you on the phone if you purchased the equipment new from them but Felder seems to be willing to help any Felder owner.

Dave

On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 3:59 PM, Thomas Haar thhaar@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

?

Brian and others -

I got the call-back from Brian at Felder, and he walked me through checking the low-voltage circuits. He very patiently explained how and why we were doing the various checks, and he took time to walk me through the wiring diagram. We were able to locate the red stop button for the shaper as being the culprit. He told me I had gotten a nice long service life out of my switches. I ordered a replacement and spares for the other switches that often go bad. It’s already up and running again, so I’m happy.

I knew the issue would get resolved, eventually, but it’s great that it was resolved so quickly. I appreciate this group, and I really appreciate Brian at Felder. It’s easy to get upset when things go wrong, but I try to focus on learning something new. Felder Delaware deserves kudos for excellent technical support.

Thomas




--
Dave & Marie Davies

318-219-7868
 

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I was able to punch it a bunch of times to make it work. ?It’s unlikely to work reliably, but I can just leave that switch alone and use the others to turn off the machine. ?I’ll replace the bad switch as soon as I get the new one.

Thomas




On Jan 27, 2017, at 5:07 PM, David Davies myfinishingtouch@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

if you just ordered the new switch how is it that it's up and running?
 

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That was great service, and glad you found the issue. Now you know that much more about your machine too.

Brian Lamb




On Jan 27, 2017, at 2:59 PM, Thomas Haar thhaar@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

Brian and others -

I got the call-back from Brian at Felder, and he walked me through checking the low-voltage circuits. He very patiently explained how and why we were doing the various checks, and he took time to walk me through the wiring diagram. We were able to locate the red stop button for the shaper as being the culprit. He told me I had gotten a nice long service life out of my switches. I ordered a replacement and spares for the other switches that often go bad. It’s already up and running again, so I’m happy.?

I knew the issue would get resolved, eventually, but it’s great that it was resolved so quickly. I appreciate this group, and I really appreciate Brian at Felder. It’s easy to get upset when things go wrong, but I try to focus on learning something new. Felder Delaware deserves kudos for excellent technical support.

Thomas

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