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Did anyone happen to see the news about a new, small widebelt sander from Felder?  From Eric in the Saw Mill Creek: We got the ballpark price in the sales meeting this morning. Won't share on the open forum but I can state that it is both attractive and competitive. This machine is still a true widebelt, not a drum sander, so keep that in mind when you are calling your Felder rep but based on how popular the Sandya Win was, I definitely see a market for folks who either can't swing a 37" WB or just don't need a machine that runs a full shift a day. Also, I was surprised to learn that it apparently has a combination head with an electro-pneumatic platen, which is a feature you don't even get on some of the $30K+ industrial widebelts. Still waiting on actual tech data from Austria.Erik
I know others have not had the best results with the FW 950, but this may work amazingly well for us hobbyists/one person shops. I called Carl at Felder, hope to hear some more info soon. What do ya think? PK PKwoodworking
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Hi PK:
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If you have not read my detailed assessment of the FW950 classic, do yourself a favour and see if you can find it in the archives here. There is extensive misinformation in the USA and in Australia regarding the Felder classics. The misinformation
stems from the stark disparity between the published features of the classic widebelts, and the real-world performance of the same.
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The FW850 may be different. Maybe Felder have fixed some or all of the problems users experienced with the FW950. But then again, maybe not.
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I am an enthusiastic user and promoter of Felder and their machinery and service because I love their machines, and my local reps and service guys are great. But I certainly don’t love the FW950. And for extensive reasons, as outlined in
my assessment mentioned above.
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All the best,
Lucky
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Did anyone happen to see the news about a new, small widebelt sander from Felder?
From Eric in the Saw Mill Creek:
We got the ballpark price in the sales meeting this morning. Won't share on the open forum but I can state that it is both attractive and competitive. This machine
is still a true widebelt, not a drum sander, so keep that in mind when you are calling your Felder rep but based on how popular the Sandya Win was, I definitely see a market for folks who either can't swing a 37" WB or just don't need a machine that runs a
full shift a day. Also, I was surprised to learn that it apparently has a combination head with an electro-pneumatic platen, which is a feature you don't even get on some of the $30K+ industrial widebelts. Still waiting on actual tech data from Austria.
Erik
I know others have not had the best results with the FW 950, but this may work amazingly well for us hobbyists/one person shops.
I called Carl at Felder, hope to hear some more info soon.
What do ya think?
PK
PKwoodworking
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Lucky,
I read your review/challenges when I first started on the FOG.? You were super detailed and had amazing insights.
It is what makes me want to know more about the differences in this new machine before I would want to repeat your journey.
Maybe they learned from you!
PK
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Goody. No worries.
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Agreed, maybe the machine is a new animal. I look forward to hearing more about the FW850!
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Lucky
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Lucky,
I read your review/challenges when I first started on the FOG.? You were super detailed and had amazing insights.
It is what makes me want to know more about the differences in this new machine before I would want to repeat your journey.
Maybe they learned from you!
PK
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They definitely value engineered that 850.
I am no expert by a long shot on wide belts but based on observation from the video looks lightweight and they simplified things like where the head is fixed to the frame (the piece that is removed so you can replace the sanding belt) instead of a solid block it is 2 jack screws. The dro is a $100 Chinese Alibaba and also a bit suspicious of the air bladder platen, could be wrong but I thought I did some reading where they can be problematic. I know they are used on some high dollar sanders ao maybe I misunderstood the stuff I was reading.?
Seems to me they should have branded this as a Hammer and not a Felder, probably fine for intermittent hobby use but a shop buying this o think will be disappointed, they are setting themselves up for a lot of complaining (don’t worry FOG, not buying one?)
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On Mar 7, 2022, at 11:19 PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
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Goody. No worries.
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Agreed, maybe the machine is a new animal. I look forward to hearing more about the FW850!
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Lucky
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Lucky,
I read your review/challenges when I first started on the FOG.? You were super detailed and had amazing insights.
It is what makes me want to know more about the differences in this new machine before I would want to repeat your journey.
Maybe they learned from you!
PK
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This caught my attention as I’ve been looking for a wide belt that’s a fit for my shop (therefore 25”).? I reached out to Felder rep who said first machines will be in NA Jan 2023 initially priced at $16,135.00.
Now I’d really like to see a review.
Mike
They definitely value engineered that 850.
I am no expert by a long shot on wide belts but based on observation from the video looks lightweight and they simplified things like where the head is fixed to the frame (the piece that is removed so you can replace the sanding belt) instead of a solid block it is 2 jack screws. The dro is a $100 Chinese Alibaba and also a bit suspicious of the air bladder platen, could be wrong but I thought I did some reading where they can be problematic. I know they are used on some high dollar sanders ao maybe I misunderstood the stuff I was reading.?
Seems to me they should have branded this as a Hammer and not a Felder, probably fine for intermittent hobby use but a shop buying this o think will be disappointed, they are setting themselves up for a lot of complaining (don’t worry FOG, not buying one?)
On Mar 7, 2022, at 11:19 PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
?
Goody. No worries.
?
Agreed, maybe the machine is a new animal. I look forward to hearing more about the FW850!
?
Lucky
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Lucky,
I read your review/challenges when I first started on the FOG.? You were super detailed and had amazing insights.
It is what makes me want to know more about the differences in this new machine before I would want to repeat your journey.
Maybe they learned from you!
PK
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Whoa...? Did not expect that pricing..??
I assume the Felder is a 48" belt.
These are all 60" belts
Cantek 25" $12k 10hp nicer DRO
Safety speed 37" $14k 10hp sp or 15hp 3ph nice DRO
Laguna 37" $15k 10hp sp DRO option
What am I missing
PK
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You are correct in your observation Mark and I agree with you fully.?
I had a chance to put my hand on a proper Felder sander (model 1102?) and even that I was not impressed...?
I think the target market for this sander is hobbyist who had enough drama with their drum sander.?
Maybe wait for Mk2 in a couple of years time? pricing at $16k USD I think you are better off to pay a tad more and get yourself a better sander.?
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Gasp! ?Seriously, $16K for THAT??? ? ?I think several of us are singing the same tune here. ?At $16K, that Felder WB is not competitive. ?Plus, given the horrible experience others have had with the lower end larger Classic WB from Felder, why would anyone want to be the pioneer here? ??
The FW850 description posted makes reference to an " electro-pneumatic platen”?which would make me want to run as fast as possible in the opposite direction. ?Pneumatic bladder-type platens require highly sophisticated sensors and electronics to control properly, otherwise they produce snipe and rounded-off edges and corners. ?Read one users assessment of Felder’s larger “entry level” machine here which has that same type of platen: ? /g/felderownersgroup/message/84493??
I love my simple 17” open-side WB (), but if I had to have a 24” unit, there’s no way I would consider the Felder FW850 - instead I would be looking at the Laguna (link below). ?It has the same platen setup as my WB which has proven to be reliable and does not round-off edges like a poorly controlled pneumatic bladder unit.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
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You are correct in your observation Mark and I agree with you fully.?
I had a chance to put my hand on a proper Felder sander (model 1102?) and even that I was not impressed...?
I think the target market for this sander is hobbyist who had enough drama with their drum sander.?
Maybe wait for Mk2 in a couple of years time? pricing at $16k USD I think you are better off to pay a tad more and get yourself a better sander.?
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Thanks for saying that David. Couldn’t agree more!
Lucky
Warm regards,
David
Dr David Luckensmeyer
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Gasp! ?Seriously, $16K for THAT??? ? ?I think several of us are singing the same tune here. ?At $16K, that Felder WB is not competitive. ?Plus, given the horrible experience others have
had with the lower end larger Classic WB from Felder, why would anyone want to be the pioneer here? ??
The FW850 description posted makes reference to an " electro-pneumatic platen”?which
would make me want to run as fast as possible in the opposite direction. ?Pneumatic bladder-type platens require highly sophisticated sensors and electronics to control properly, otherwise they produce snipe and rounded-off edges and corners. ?Read
one users assessment of Felder’s larger “entry level” machine here which has that same type of platen: ? /g/felderownersgroup/message/84493??
I love my simple 17” open-side WB (), but if I had to have a 24” unit, there’s no way I would consider the Felder FW850 - instead
I would be looking at the Laguna (link below). ?It has the same platen setup as my WB which has proven to be reliable and does not round-off edges like a poorly controlled pneumatic bladder unit.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
You are correct in your observation Mark and I agree with you fully.?
I had a chance to put my hand on a proper Felder sander (model 1102?) and even that I was not impressed...?
I think the target market for this sander is hobbyist who had enough drama with their drum sander.?
Maybe wait for Mk2 in a couple of years time? pricing at $16k USD I think you are better off to pay a tad more and get yourself a better sander.?
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Well glad my suspicions on the air bladder on a low end machine were correct.?
The rounding over of the edges comment reminded me that it is an anti dubbing feature that you need in a sander with an air bladder.
A place I worked at after I closed my biz had a sander with bladders, fingers and all sorts of gizmos you could put a 50” wide panel with Mahogany veneer in the field and 2” solid Maple edge (as an example) slightly proud of the field and it would come out the other end perfect, i think that sander 500k plus
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On Mar 9, 2022, at 4:32 AM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
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Thanks for saying that David. Couldn’t agree more!
Lucky
Warm regards,
David
Dr David Luckensmeyer
Gasp! ?Seriously, $16K for THAT??? ? ?I think several of us are singing the same tune here. ?At $16K, that Felder WB is not competitive. ?Plus, given the horrible experience others have
had with the lower end larger Classic WB from Felder, why would anyone want to be the pioneer here? ??
The FW850 description posted makes reference to an " electro-pneumatic platen”?which
would make me want to run as fast as possible in the opposite direction. ?Pneumatic bladder-type platens require highly sophisticated sensors and electronics to control properly, otherwise they produce snipe and rounded-off edges and corners. ?Read
one users assessment of Felder’s larger “entry level” machine here which has that same type of platen: ? /g/felderownersgroup/message/84493??
I love my simple 17” open-side WB (), but if I had to have a 24” unit, there’s no way I would consider the Felder FW850 - instead
I would be looking at the Laguna (link below). ?It has the same platen setup as my WB which has proven to be reliable and does not round-off edges like a poorly controlled pneumatic bladder unit.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
You are correct in your observation Mark and I agree with you fully.?
I had a chance to put my hand on a proper Felder sander (model 1102?) and even that I was not impressed...?
I think the target market for this sander is hobbyist who had enough drama with their drum sander.?
Maybe wait for Mk2 in a couple of years time? pricing at $16k USD I think you are better off to pay a tad more and get yourself a better sander.?
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There are a lot of Taiwan sanders that are decent choices here.? Houfek also makes a lot of smaller sanders.? I don't know if they are Easter Euro , Taiwan, or China though.? The EMC sourced machine Felder used to sell might have been the pick of the litter
in small sized sanders.? I don't know if they still offer it.? Dave
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Thanks for saying that David. Couldn’t agree more!
Lucky
Warm regards,
David
Dr David Luckensmeyer
Gasp! ?Seriously, $16K for THAT??? ? ?I think several of us are singing the same tune here. ?At $16K, that Felder WB is not competitive. ?Plus, given the horrible experience others have
had with the lower end larger Classic WB from Felder, why would anyone want to be the pioneer here? ??
The FW850 description posted makes reference to an " electro-pneumatic platen”?which
would make me want to run as fast as possible in the opposite direction. ?Pneumatic bladder-type platens require highly sophisticated sensors and electronics to control properly, otherwise they produce snipe and rounded-off edges and corners. ?Read
one users assessment of Felder’s larger “entry level” machine here which has that same type of platen: ? /g/felderownersgroup/message/84493??
I love my simple 17” open-side WB (), but if I had to have a 24” unit, there’s no way I would consider the Felder FW850 - instead
I would be looking at the Laguna (link below). ?It has the same platen setup as my WB which has proven to be reliable and does not round-off edges like a poorly controlled pneumatic bladder unit.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
You are correct in your observation Mark and I agree with you fully.?
I had a chance to put my hand on a proper Felder sander (model 1102?) and even that I was not impressed...?
I think the target market for this sander is hobbyist who had enough drama with their drum sander.?
Maybe wait for Mk2 in a couple of years time? pricing at $16k USD I think you are better off to pay a tad more and get yourself a better sander.?
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That Houfek CINDY machine looks neat. I ultimately opted for the North State 16” machine, but would be terribly curious to hear if anybody has/had any experience with the Houfek machines, particularly after sales service support.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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Apparently the FW 850 will be debuting in August at the IWF.
Search continues.
On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 6:57 AM < tom@...> wrote: That Houfek CINDY machine looks neat. I ultimately opted for the North State 16” machine, but would be terribly curious to hear if anybody has/had any experience with the Houfek machines, particularly after sales service support.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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I have a full price list of Houfek, they are made in Czech.?
Smaller Houfek sander say Bulldog 3, with platen, working width 650mm/7.5hp, starts at 10k Euro, if you apply 30% discount as per the email its roughly 7k Euro...? which is about 8k USD in 2020. not sure about now.?
Below are some snap shot of the Bulldog specs.?
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Anyone familiar with the quality and reliability of the Houfeks? At that pricing i might back out of the used scm
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On Mar 9, 2022, at 3:31 PM, Albert Lee <timbershelf@...> wrote:
?I have a full price list of Houfek, they are made in Czech.? Smaller Houfek sander say Bulldog 3, with platen, working width 650mm/7.5hp, starts at 10k Euro, if you apply 30% discount as per the email its roughly 7k Euro...? which is about 8k USD in 2020. not sure about now.? Below are some snap shot of the Bulldog specs.?
   
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What is the planer looking bar on the Houfek?
Anyone familiar with the quality and reliability of the Houfeks? At that pricing i might back out of the used scm ?I have a full price list of Houfek, they are made in Czech.? Smaller Houfek sander say Bulldog 3, with platen, working width 650mm/7.5hp, starts at 10k Euro, if you apply 30% discount as per the email its roughly 7k Euro...? which is about 8k USD in 2020. not sure about now.? Below are some snap shot of the Bulldog specs.?
   
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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Give Chris Peterson at comprehensiverepair.com.? He repairs WB and might have an opinion.? He has always answered my questions and I've bought spare parts from him.? Dave
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Anyone familiar with the quality and reliability of the Houfeks? At that pricing i might back out of the used scm
On Mar 9, 2022, at 3:31 PM, Albert Lee <timbershelf@...> wrote:
?I have a full price list of Houfek, they are made in Czech.?
Smaller Houfek sander say Bulldog 3, with platen, working width 650mm/7.5hp, starts at 10k Euro, if you apply 30% discount as per the email its roughly 7k Euro...? which is about 8k USD in 2020. not sure about now.?
Below are some snap shot of the Bulldog specs.?
   
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I own a Houfek 950 Single Head Wide Belt Sander.? ?I purchased it in 2016.? ?Happy to answer any questions you may have.? ?When I bought?it, it was between the Houfek 950 and the SCM 1 single head.? I went Houfek.?
Rick?
Anyone familiar with the quality and reliability of the Houfeks? At that pricing i might back out of the used scm ?I have a full price list of Houfek, they are made in Czech.? Smaller Houfek sander say Bulldog 3, with platen, working width 650mm/7.5hp, starts at 10k Euro, if you apply 30% discount as per the email its roughly 7k Euro...? which is about 8k USD in 2020. not sure about now.? Below are some snap shot of the Bulldog specs.?
   
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Reading?this email a bit deeper.? I have the Buldog 3 in 950mm or 37".? ?
I chose it over the SCM because it was much heavier.? It had a 36x75 belt instead of 36x60 ..? It was 5 years ago and I can't?remember all the details.??
I ordered it with variable feed speed.? ?The anti dubbing feature,? Pneumatic adjustable platen,? 15HP motor.? Overall it's been a great machine.? My experience has been that the 15hp is more than adequate.? The dust collection works quite well,? I have a 4hp Felder DC,? I don't think you would want much less than 4hp unless it was sitting right next to the sander.? ??
I've had some odd problems but all of them have been my problems.? For instance I have an? automatic blower for belt cleaning.? ?When I plumbed the machine for air,? I ran 1/4" Airline with Pneumatic push fittings.? ?The auto blower would take so much air it would lower the PSI below what the Pneumatic brake needed to stay "off" ..? As the pressure dropped, the brake wouldn't trigger, but would slowly and partially engage.? It would get hot fast.??
The solution was to run a bigger airline.? Finding the solution and the cause was a real process.? ?
Another issue I have with the machine is they use fuses in some of the electrical.? I have a Martin T-45 Planer with a 10HP motor and an aggressive motor brake.? ?This is a home shop so I have a Phase Perfect and a 3 phase panel.? ?The Martin planer when shut down dumps power into the grid and causes a fuse to blow in the transformer of the Houfek.? ?Not Houfeks fault.? I turn the disconnect on the sander to the off position and never have a problem unless I forget.? ?Even then it's 1/3 of the time.? ? ?I also have a Martin Sliding table saw,? about 1/100 times the planer will cause the same problem in the table saw.? The difference is that Martin is all breakers.? ?Houfek has some fuses.? At 10:00PM in the evening,? you can flip the breaker back on the table saw.? Fuses you either have one or you don't .? ?I wish Houfek used all fuses.?
Truthfully,? if I wanted a Wide Belt sander of the same quality as my planer,? it would be $40,000 or more.? For the budget that the SCM 950 or Houfek 950 costs,? it's a great machine.? It's built like a tank and I fully believe it will still be running fine in 30 years.? I would buy it again, unless I wanted to spend double or triple the money.? ?
Rick? ?
On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 1:23 PM Rick Fisher via <rickfisher.cbs= [email protected]> wrote: I own a Houfek 950 Single Head Wide Belt Sander.? ?I purchased it in 2016.? ?Happy to answer any questions you may have.? ?When I bought?it, it was between the Houfek 950 and the SCM 1 single head.? I went Houfek.?
Rick?
Anyone familiar with the quality and reliability of the Houfeks? At that pricing i might back out of the used scm ?I have a full price list of Houfek, they are made in Czech.? Smaller Houfek sander say Bulldog 3, with platen, working width 650mm/7.5hp, starts at 10k Euro, if you apply 30% discount as per the email its roughly 7k Euro...? which is about 8k USD in 2020. not sure about now.? Below are some snap shot of the Bulldog specs.?
   
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PK
David Luckensmeyer
Albert Lee
David P. Best
Tom Gensmer
