Adjusting C3-41 jointer beds? #hammer #jpsetup #jointerplaner
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Hello All,
The jointer beds on my C3-41 arrived well calibrated, but have come out of calibration very quickly.?? I believe my outfeed bed is now perfectly adjusted (at least, according to the great video by Preston Hoffman ), but as I begin the process of trying to get the infeed table coplanar to the outfeed table, I can see that my infeed table is canted, that is, the near side of the infeed table is perfectly co-planar with the outfeed table, but the far side of the infeed table is higher than the outfeed table. OK, well Preston's video mentions what I think is the solution to that problem, two big bolts on the near side and two set screws on the hinge side.? My problem/question:? My C3-41 doesn't have one of those set screws.? This is true for both the infeed and the outfeed tables...I can only find the one set screw.? In the picture above, Preston circled the locations of both set screws with white circles, and I've added a red arrow pointing to the set screw which doesn't seem to exist on my C3-41. I'm hoping that it's simply been re-located on the C3-41, and someone can post of picture of where it's hiding, or tell me how else to make the adjustments. Sadly the user manual mentions nothing about this adjustment, nor do the videos on the Felder website. Thanks for your help! Ed |
开云体育?Hi Ed, Does the exploded diagram of your machine show the missing or any other set screw for this purpose? BTW, I am pretty fussy so when I did my alignment I went for the last thou but honestly you can get away with a bit w/o ever knowing. So just a thought, if you are close and you have already done the outfeed and near side of infeed is good you may want to try the jointer to see how well it works. For jointing you use the front end and that will cut your (infeed across the table) calibration error in half to start with. Imran On Oct 30, 2021, at 12:21 PM, speedrrracer@... wrote:
?Hello All, The jointer beds on my C3-41 arrived well calibrated, but have come out of calibration very quickly.?? I believe my outfeed bed is now perfectly adjusted (at least, according to the great video by Preston Hoffman ), but as I begin the process of trying to get the infeed table coplanar to the outfeed table, I can see that my infeed table is canted, that is, the near side of the infeed table is perfectly co-planar with the outfeed table, but the far side of the infeed table is higher than the outfeed table. OK, well Preston's video mentions what I think is the solution to that problem, two big bolts on the near side and two set screws on the hinge side.? My problem/question:? My C3-41 doesn't have one of those set screws.? This is true for both the infeed and the outfeed tables...I can only find the one set screw.? <dummyfile.0.part> In the picture above, Preston circled the locations of both set screws with white circles, and I've added a red arrow pointing to the set screw which doesn't seem to exist on my C3-41. I'm hoping that it's simply been re-located on the C3-41, and someone can post of picture of where it's hiding, or tell me how else to make the adjustments. Sadly the user manual mentions nothing about this adjustment, nor do the videos on the Felder website. Thanks for your help! Ed |
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Hello again, Imran
So here's the diagram...I think it's the correct one, and I think the set screw I have is #24.? Sadly, I don't think that set screw has anything to do with adjusting the jointer table, or if it does, I'm not using it correctly.? I loosened it to the point where it was rattling around in the threads, checked the jointer bed, then tightened it all the way, and checked again, then moved it about halfway between the two -- no apparent change that I could detect.? |
开云体育Hi Ed, Do you know what item 17 is for. There is one on each end. Imran On Oct 30, 2021, at 2:37 PM, speedrrracer@... wrote:
?Hello again, Imran So here's the diagram...I think it's the correct one, and I think the set screw I have is #24.? <dummyfile.0.part> Sadly, I don't think that set screw has anything to do with adjusting the jointer table, or if it does, I'm not using it correctly.? I loosened it to the point where it was rattling around in the threads, checked the jointer bed, then tightened it all the way, and checked again, then moved it about halfway between the two -- no apparent change that I could detect.? |
开云体育Here is the link to the process on a Dual 51 - my guess is that the concept and mechanical elements of the hinge and how it’s adjusted are similar.I will DM you a survival guide that covers the same information in a lot more detail. David Best https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
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开云体育I don’t have any experience with a Hammer J/P. ?But looking closer at your photo and the exploded parts diagram, I’m forming some opinions. ?The Felder Jointer tables have a system to move the hinge pin (or axle if you will) up/down as the means of altering the incline of the infeed table at the hinge side so that the table surface on that side is coplanar to the outfeed table. ? From your photos and the drawing, it looks to me like the Hammer system is much simpler and does not accomplish the same task by altering the hinge pin (axle) position. ? I see lateral adjustments, but no vertical adjustment on the axle. ?Therefor, I’m concluding that the height and angle adjustment at the infeed hinge is accomplished by moving the mounting block that attaches to the machine chassis. ?Have a look at the following. ?That grey painted block with the two arrows pasted over it must move up/down to accomplish this adjustment. ?The missing set screws would be the means by which the block is moved up or down on either end once the four attachment bolts to the chassis are loosened. ?If those holes you circled in white are threaded, that would be further evidence that these are adjustment jack screws positions. In the drawing shown below, the axle is circled in red, but again, I don’t see evidence of a system to adjust this axle other than locking it downward and forward or back with the setscrews called out as #20 in the blue circled area. ?The jacking screws marked #24 is what I suspect is used to adjust height and tilt of the axle. ?There are also two jacking screws circled in green in the photo and parts diagram which function to either (a) align the mounting block so that the front edge of the table when lowered is parallel to the cutter, or (b) deal with surface irregularities between the mounting block and chassis. In the parts table, what does it say for #24? ?Looks to me like an M6 or M8 screw. ?A trip to Home Depot will probably reward you with the missing jack screws, or failing that, McMaster can have them to you in a couple of days. Hope this helps. David Best https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
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开云体育If you want additional help here, please take a couple of decent resolution photos of your infeed table hinge mechanism from different angles and post them here. ? I thought the photo in your OP was your machine.? David Best https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
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Thanks, David.? Here's the infeed hinge on my machine:
Here's a view of that hinge from the left side (inboard side?), you can see the jack screw more clearly: And here's a better shot of the right side of the infeed hinge (the outboard side?).? It's easy to see that there was never a hole here: Here's the back view of the infeed side hinge: And for comparison, here's a shot of the outfeed table hinge, it looks like a mirror image of the infeed side.? Both have jack screws on their inboard sides only: |
开云体育Thanks for the photos. ?Based on what I see, each of hinge mounting blocks that attach to the chassis have four bolts that secure the block, and a single jacking screw to alter the pitch/angle of the the entire hinge mechanism.The photo below is your infeed table hinge. ?My guess is the idea of adjustment here is that portion of the mounting block that overhangs the chassis (to the right in the photo below) is intended to remain vertically stationary, while the opposite end of the mounting block is moved up/down via the jacking screw circled in green. ?That will cause the incline of the infeed table on the hinge side to alter as shown with the yellow lines. Without any other input, I would assume that once the outfeed table is aligned, you loosen all of the mounting block bolts on the infeed table, loosen the jacking screw (green), then snug up one of the bolts circled in blue. ?Lower and lightly lock both tables, and check alignment from outfeed to infeed. ?Then you can use the jack screw (green) to bring the infeed table end next to the cutter block upward, thus bringing the infeed table surface coplaner with the outfeed table on the hinge side of the machine, ?Then lock the other mounting bolts. ?If after loosening the morning bolts and jack screw you discover the end of the infeed table closest to the cutterhead needs to go DOWN, then you have two choices: ?1) alter the angle of the outfeed table (raise the edge closest to the cutterblock), or 2) find some mechanism of elevating the end of the infeed table mounting block at the blue circle end and begin again. ?I’m not clear on how much slop there is in the holes that allow adjustment between the sheet metal chassis and mounting block. ?if the far right end of the mounting block need to be elevated, without a jack screw there, you’ll need to find some mechanical advantage means to elevate that end (I would be thinking of using the pallet jack fork with a brace up under the end of the mounting block, or driving a wooden wedge between the block and the chassis). Hope this helps.? David Best https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
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开云体育
Does the jack screw become the single point of contact or does the bracket move with the adjustment to maintain full contact and the screw references off something else?? I'd want to shim if the screw becomes the single contact.? Dave
From: felderownersgroup@groups.io <felderownersgroup@groups.io> on behalf of david@... via groups.io <david@...>
Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 12:08 AM To: felderownersgroup@groups.io <felderownersgroup@groups.io> Subject: Re: [FOG] Adjusting C3-41 jointer beds? #hammer #jpsetup #jointerplaner ?
Thanks for the photos. ?Based on what I see, each of hinge mounting blocks that attach to the chassis have four bolts that secure the block, and a single jacking screw to alter the pitch/angle
of the the entire hinge mechanism.
The photo below is your infeed table hinge. ?My guess is the idea of adjustment here is that portion of the mounting block that overhangs the chassis (to the right in the photo below) is intended to remain vertically stationary, while the opposite
end of the mounting block is moved up/down via the jacking screw circled in green. ?That will cause the incline of the infeed table on the hinge side to alter as shown with the yellow lines.
Without any other input, I would assume that once the outfeed table is aligned, you loosen all of the mounting block bolts on the infeed table, loosen the jacking screw (green), then snug up one of the bolts circled in blue. ?Lower and lightly
lock both tables, and check alignment from outfeed to infeed. ?Then you can use the jack screw (green) to bring the infeed table end next to the cutter block upward, thus bringing the infeed table surface coplaner with the outfeed table on the hinge side of
the machine, ?Then lock the other mounting bolts. ?If after loosening the morning bolts and jack screw you discover the end of the infeed table closest to the cutterhead needs to go DOWN, then you have two choices: ?1) alter the angle of the outfeed table
(raise the edge closest to the cutterblock), or 2) find some mechanism of elevating the end of the infeed table mounting block at the blue circle end and begin again. ?I’m not clear on how much slop there is in the holes that allow adjustment between the sheet
metal chassis and mounting block. ?if the far right end of the mounting block need to be elevated, without a jack screw there, you’ll need to find some mechanical advantage means to elevate that end (I would be thinking of using the pallet jack fork with a
brace up under the end of the mounting block, or driving a wooden wedge between the block and the chassis).
Hope this helps.?
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
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开云体育Reviewing this thread, I just realized the difference between Ed’s machine and the one shown in the picture in the OP (that pic, came from Preston Hoffman video). There is structure below the right side of the hinge on the machine shown in the picture posted in the OP. However, on Ed’s machine there is no structure below the right side of the hinge mechanism, hence the lack of a set screw as it won’t accomplish anything. Like Dave K suggested a shim is what I would try if I needed to bring right side up. Brass shims are available down to 0.001”. In emergency, I once used half of a feeler gauge as shim. Imran On Nov 1, 2021, at 9:28 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
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Does the jack screw become the single point of contact or does the bracket move with the adjustment to maintain full contact and the screw references off something else?? I'd want to shim if the screw becomes the single contact.? Dave
From: felderownersgroup@groups.io <felderownersgroup@groups.io> on behalf of david@... via groups.io <david@...>
Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 12:08 AM To: felderownersgroup@groups.io <felderownersgroup@groups.io> Subject: Re: [FOG] Adjusting C3-41 jointer beds? #hammer #jpsetup #jointerplaner ?
Thanks for the photos. ?Based on what I see, each of hinge mounting blocks that attach to the chassis have four bolts that secure the block, and a single jacking screw to alter the pitch/angle
of the the entire hinge mechanism.
The photo below is your infeed table hinge. ?My guess is the idea of adjustment here is that portion of the mounting block that overhangs the chassis (to the right in the photo below) is intended to remain vertically stationary, while the opposite
end of the mounting block is moved up/down via the jacking screw circled in green. ?That will cause the incline of the infeed table on the hinge side to alter as shown with the yellow lines.
<screenshot_5239.jpeg> Without any other input, I would assume that once the outfeed table is aligned, you loosen all of the mounting block bolts on the infeed table, loosen the jacking screw (green), then snug up one of the bolts circled in blue. ?Lower and lightly
lock both tables, and check alignment from outfeed to infeed. ?Then you can use the jack screw (green) to bring the infeed table end next to the cutter block upward, thus bringing the infeed table surface coplaner with the outfeed table on the hinge side of
the machine, ?Then lock the other mounting bolts. ?If after loosening the morning bolts and jack screw you discover the end of the infeed table closest to the cutterhead needs to go DOWN, then you have two choices: ?1) alter the angle of the outfeed table
(raise the edge closest to the cutterblock), or 2) find some mechanism of elevating the end of the infeed table mounting block at the blue circle end and begin again. ?I’m not clear on how much slop there is in the holes that allow adjustment between the sheet
metal chassis and mounting block. ?if the far right end of the mounting block need to be elevated, without a jack screw there, you’ll need to find some mechanical advantage means to elevate that end (I would be thinking of using the pallet jack fork with a
brace up under the end of the mounting block, or driving a wooden wedge between the block and the chassis).
Hope this helps.?
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
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That's a great observation.? A3-31 hinges are entirely over "structure", so a jack screw on either side at least has something to push against, but on my C3-41, the "outboard" side of each hinge is simply hanging over space.
Combining that with what David Kumm said (the jack screw being the only point of contact?? seems ridiculous that an entire jointer bed could possibly be supported by a tiny jack screw, which supports Mr Best's pivot idea) it makes me look for things that do appear to contact "structure". Looking back at the hinge picture, I note that there are two jack screws inside two bolts which could make contact with a solid surface, and perhaps adjust the table's angle.? I circled them in red and added arrows to point to where they might contact some structure: Or I could well be crazy.? I'm waiting on a call back from tech support, so hopefully I'll know more soon |
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Ed,
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The 2 jack screws you just mentioned are #17 I asked about earlier. They could be defining the height of the axle at each end. However, no clue on how accessible these are.
?
Imran
On Nov 1, 2021, at 2:42 PM, speedrrracer@... wrote:
[Edited Message Follows] That's a great observation.? A3-31 hinges are entirely over "structure", so a jack screw on either side at least has something to push against, but on my C3-41, the "outboard" side of each hinge is simply hanging over space.Combining that with what David Kumm said (the jack screw being the only point of contact?? seems ridiculous that an entire jointer bed could possibly be supported by a tiny jack screw, which supports Mr Best's pivot idea) it makes me look for things that do appear to contact "structure". Looking back at the hinge picture, I note that there are two jack screws inside two bolts which could make contact with a solid surface, and perhaps adjust the table's angle.? I circled them in red and added arrows to point to where they might contact some structure: ?
Or I could well be crazy.? I'm waiting on a call back from tech support, so hopefully I'll know more soon |
imran
David P. Best