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Adjusting FB510 table orientation with blade? #Bandsaw #whatmachinetobuy

 
Edited

Hello -

I am new here. ?This is my first post.?

I have an FB510 band saw and I have been having problems with blade drift especially with wider resaw type blades. ?I was given a tip by a fellow named Bob at R&B Bandsaw to check out this video ?

and related article ?
by Michael Fortune.?

So I began by adjusting the fence clamp bar so the the fence is very well aligned as parallel with the miter slot and blade slot. ?

I proceeded to do the cutting tests and the wood is tight between the fence and the left side of the blade. As such the blade is bowing slightly to the right of the operator. ?When I stop the saw in the cut, there is a small gap between the right side of the blade and the wood and of course no gap on the left side. ?

Based on the information in the video and article, I conclude that the table (and so too the properly aligned fence) are out of alignment (not parallel) with the blade and in this case turned a bit too far clockwise from the perspective of the operator looking down at the table.?

Given this, my desire is to adjust / move the table top relative to the blade (and so relative to the rest of the saw) such that the table top would be rotated very slightly counterclockwise from its current position.?

Initially, I mistakenly thought this could be accomplished by loosening the 4 bolts holding the table top to the semi-circular base below it (that base piece is the one that can be unlocked to allow the table top to be oriented on an angle to horizontal) and then just shift the table top as I wanted and retighten (similar to the procedure described in the video). ? The table top cannot be shifted like that because near two of the 4 bolt holes mentioned there are also little placement pins that stick up from the semi-circular base into small holes in the bottom of the table top; these hold the table top such that they exactly align all four bolt holes in the table top with the corresponding semi circular base below. ? As well, there is no play between bolt holes and the bolts; the table top was not intended to be adjusted this way. ?(I tightened the 4 bolts back up).?

I notice that there are a pair of bolts which attach the semi circular base piece to the frame below it, and I wondered if there was some play and possibility for adjustment there, but I thought I should try to find out from somebody who knows before trying anything further.?

So, please tell me how can I make the such an ?adjustment in the table orientation??

craig
 

I quit watching the video as soon as I heard "Center the blade on the upper wheel". This is the method I was first taught and always had problems tweaking alignment. Plus, changing blades means realignment every time.?

Consider an alternate method: Alex Snodgrass. The philosophical?difference is centering the teeth/gullets on the upper wheel. Much easier, repeatable, and changing blades means often no alignment issues at all, at least for me.

You will also likely?find the Alex Snodgrass method allows you to make minute upper wheel tracking adjustments under tension to correct any miter-slot/fence alignment you are experiencing, easily. That's what I do. In fact my bandsaw's?table isn't fully secured in place. I tap with a mallet to allow extra adjustment with some of the squirrely applications I find in my shop (which I would?recommend to nobody but it works for me).







On Sun, May 23, 2021 at 5:05 AM <longdog.woodworking@...> wrote:
Hello -

I am new here.? This is my first post.?

I have an FB510 band saw and I have been having problems with blade drift especially with wider resaw type blades.? I was given a tip by a fellow named Bob at R&B Bandsaw to check out this video ?

and related article ?
by Michael Fortune.?

So I began by adjusting the fence clamp bar so the the fence is very well aligned as parallel with the miter slot and blade slot. ?

I proceeded to do the cutting tests and the wood is tight between the fence and the left side of the blade. As such the blade is bowing slightly to the right of the operator.? When I stop the saw in the cut, there is a small gap between the right side of the blade and the wood and of course no gap on the left side. ?

Based on the information in the video and article, I conclude that the table (and so too the properly aligned fence) are out of alignment (not parallel) with the blade and in this case turned a bit too far clockwise from the perspective of the operator looking down at the table.?

Given this, my desire is to adjust / move the table top relative to the blade (and so relative to the rest of the saw) such that the table top would be rotated very slightly counterclockwise from its current position.?

Initially, I mistakenly thought this could be accomplished by loosening the 4 bolts holding the table top to the semi-circular base below it (that base piece is the one that can be unlocked to allow the table top to be oriented on an angle to horizontal) and then just shift the table top as I wanted and retighten (similar to the procedure described in the video). ? The table top cannot be shifted like that because near two of the 4 bolt holes mentioned there are also little placement pins that stick up from the semi-circular base into small holes in the bottom of the table top; these hold the table top such that they exactly align all four bolt holes in the table top with the corresponding semi circular base below. ? As well, there is no play between bolt holes and the bolts; the table top was not intended to be adjusted this way. ?(I tightened the 4 bolts back up).?

I notice that there are a pair of bolts which attach the semi circular base piece to the frame below it, and I wondered if there was some play and possibility for adjustment there, but I thought I should try to find out from somebody who knows before trying anything further.?

So, please tell me how can I make the such an ?adjustment in the table orientation??

craig?



--
Brett Wissel
Saint Louis Restoration
1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd)
St Louis, MO 63110

314.772.2167
brett@...
 

Craig,

????? Looks like you have a great saw. I would get a 1" carbide tipped blade like the Woodmaster CT by Lenox and put plenty of tension on it. They are expensive, but will last easily 10 times longer than steel blades. I would try different ways to adjust the blade as to how it rides on the wheel. Don't worry about not being able to move your table in relation to the saw. Also, adjust your guides as per the Snodgrass videos. I think you will not have any more drift problems. And if you really get into resawing, consider building a taller fence and something to keep pressure on the stock to keep it tight against the fence as you saw. I used to hate resawing, but since doing all the above to my saw, I really enjoy it now.
 

Ditto the Snodgrass video. I followed his instructions and have gotten very accurate resaw thicknesses. Snodgrass claims the fence can be out by 1/4¡± and still cut straight. I¡¯m not sure about that but Michael Fortune¡¯s point about the fence being parallel to the t-slot makes sense for the reason of using the slot for auxiliary jigs.

On Sun, May 23, 2021 at 8:00 AM <tomruth@...> wrote:
Craig,

????? Looks like you have a great saw. I would get a 1" carbide tipped blade like the Woodmaster CT by Lenox and put plenty of tension on it. They are expensive, but will last easily 10 times longer than steel blades. I would try different ways to adjust the blade as to how it rides on the wheel. Don't worry about not being able to move your table in relation to the saw. Also, adjust your guides as per the Snodgrass videos. I think you will not have any more drift problems. And if you really get into resawing, consider building a taller fence and something to keep pressure on the stock to keep it tight against the fence as you saw. I used to hate resawing, but since doing all the above to my saw, I really enjoy it now.

--
Kevin J. Wells
 

I have an FB510 and have been able to adjust the table for drift.? I also have a shopmade resaw fence which can be tweaked via shims to fine tune for drift. I don't use the t slot so that is not a consideration for me.

?Drift is important for great off-tkoihe-saw results because excess drift will hold up the blade which then takes little jumps and makes a rough cut.??

It is true that moving the FB table is awkward and hard to finetune so I don't do it very?often.? If it is close, easier to shim the fence.
 

Hi Jim,

¡°Drift is important for great off-tkoihe-saw results because excess drift will hold up the blade which then takes little jumps and makes a rough cut.¡±

Few months ago, I asked here how to get rough sawn markings on my band saw for a project. Is that what ¡°off-tkoihe-saw results¡± look like? Nothing shows up when I searched so any info you can share be appreciated.

Imran
 

I've watched all the Snodgrass videos and have had success with his method on my 14" Jet bandsaw. I have an FB510 too that I use for resawing with a 1" Trimaster carbide blade. The Snodgrass approach starts from the proposition that the blade is positioned with the back of the gullet at the centerline of the upper tire. That makes sense for regular steel blades with set teeth. But a carbide blade is supposed to be positioned with the teeth hanging off the edge of the tire. Felder tires are flat, not crowned like the tires Snodgrass uses. Does anyone know if the flatness eliminate the need for the centerline requirement or am I missing something??
 

Greg, I'm very much a noobie when it comes to band saws, but here are my observations from the last year or so with my Laguna LT14SUV (Asian-made, Euro-style 14" band saw, 3hp, ~14" resaw capacity):

-- Saw ships with crowned, rubber tires

-- I found it really easy to get the blades to track properly

-- I would occasionally forget to release the tension on the blade at the end of the day (I know I know, deep rabbit hole there), and the next day the saw ran REALLY rough due to the deformation of the rubber tires overnight

-- To alleviate the above issue, I replaced the stock crowned, rubber tires with aftermarket flat, urethane tires

-- The urethane tires alleviated the flat spot issue, but I found it nearly impossible to get my blades to track properly. My 1" Laguna Resaw King tracked ok (blade centered on wheel, with teeth just overhanding the front of the tire), but my regular steel 3/4", 1/2", and 1/4" blades walked all over the tire. It was a real mess.?

-- I ultimately ordered a set of?crowned, urethane tires from Sulphur Grove Tools??For my specific machine and work habits, these tires have been exactly what I needed. I regularly swap between my blades (mostly my 1" Resaw King and 1/4" scrolling blade) (I desperately want a second band saw!), and haven't needed to touch the tracking knob in months. I simply go through the normal procedure of loosening all of the guides (etc-etc-etc....), swap blades, and as soon as I tension the blade and spin the upper wheel, the blade snaps to the center of the tire. So, my more narrow blades end up in the "Snodgrass Configuration" where the teeth are roughly centered on the tire, while my 1" carbide tipped blade naturally locates itself so the blade body is centered on the wheel, with the carbide teeth?just hanging off the edge of the tire.?

-- Sulphur Grove advertises that they will produce band saw tires in custom sizes, so if you're interested you could inquire about having a set produced for your FB510. I suspect you will not have been the first person to ask and they might already have some in inventory.?

I hope this helps!

--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
 

Thanks for your answer Tom. Interesting to know there¡¯s a way to order custom tires. Fortunately I don¡¯t have any tracking problems with either my Trimaster or 1/2¡± Dimaster blades on the flat tires. I should have been clearer. I asked the question because I¡¯m trying to improve the quality of cut. It¡¯s pretty good, but I¡¯ve seen the veneers Jim gets with the same saw and will admit to a bit of envy. I too shim the fence a bit but this thread has me wondering whether my blade setup is optimum. Other than centering to the back of the gullet, I more or less follow the Snodgrass approach. He claims there¡¯s no such thing as drift as do others. Not sure I buy it but am retaining an open mind. If there¡¯s a way to get better cuts without tweaking the fence, I¡¯d love to. I¡¯m still interested in thoughts about blade centering if anybody has any.?
 

I recently bought a 610 and found a video from Peter Sefton that was invaluable (he sets up a 510).? If you¡¯ve got the rails on your table, he adjusts them to square the fence to the blade.? Video download was inexpensive and, while basic, is more or less specific to the felder so I thought easily worth it.
?
(For what its worth, I bought the one for the planer as well.? Again, he sets up a felder.)

Mike

On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 7:13 AM Jim Fleming <jameshfleming@...> wrote:
I have an FB510 and have been able to adjust the table for drift.? I also have a shopmade resaw fence which can be tweaked via shims to fine tune for drift. I don't use the t slot so that is not a consideration for me.

?Drift is important for great off-tkoihe-saw results because excess drift will hold up the blade which then takes little jumps and makes a rough cut.??

It is true that moving the FB table is awkward and hard to finetune so I don't do it very?often.? If it is close, easier to shim the fence.
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi Greg:

I¡¯ve used both the Trimaster and the CT Woodmaster extensively. The latter blade is less expensive and yet cuts faster and more smoothly. I no longer buy Trimaster blades as a result.?

In your quest for a smooth resaw result, consider trying the CT Woodmaster.?

Warm regards,
Lucky

On 25 May 2021, at 5:52 am, Greg Mix <gregnmix@...> wrote:

?

Thanks for your answer Tom. Interesting to know there¡¯s a way to order custom tires. Fortunately I don¡¯t have any tracking problems with either my Trimaster or 1/2¡± Dimaster blades on the flat tires. I should have been clearer. I asked the question because I¡¯m trying to improve the quality of cut. It¡¯s pretty good, but I¡¯ve seen the veneers Jim gets with the same saw and will admit to a bit of envy. I too shim the fence a bit but this thread has me wondering whether my blade setup is optimum. Other than centering to the back of the gullet, I more or less follow the Snodgrass approach. He claims there¡¯s no such thing as drift as do others. Not sure I buy it but am retaining an open mind. If there¡¯s a way to get better cuts without tweaking the fence, I¡¯d love to. I¡¯m still interested in thoughts about blade centering if anybody has any.?
 

Hi, Imran.? My reference to "off-tkoihe-saw" was really just pre-first-cup-of-coffee for off the saw.??

And I referred to adjusting the table when what really happens on the FB510 is you adjust the front rail which controls the alignment of the fence versus the blade.??

As for blade marks, my best results are when I have glued my workpiece to a full-length torsion box with a sacrificial facing of masonite?or fiberboard.? The weight of the torsion box helps me to maintain a steady rate of feed and consistent contact between the workpiece and the fence.? That helps to avoid the stop and start saw marks.

Nevertheless, some saw marks seem to be inevitable.? Therefore, I try to cut at about 1/8" so I can run the veneers through a drum sander (mine is a SuperMax) to get a consistent?3/32" thickness and a good gluing surface.?

? ? ?Jim ? ??

James H. Fleming
925-683-1002
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Thanks for the explanation Jim. Actually, you got my attention because I wanted the rough sawn look for a project. My bandsaw produces a relatively smooth surface and if there are markings they don¡¯t resemble the rough sawn markings one gets from band mills. Some suggest bending one tooth on the blade and then feeding wood in reverse to get similar markings but I have not tried that.

Imran

On May 25, 2021, at 7:33 PM, Jim Fleming <jameshfleming@...> wrote:

?
Hi, Imran.? My reference to "off-tkoihe-saw" was really just pre-first-cup-of-coffee for off the saw.??

And I referred to adjusting the table when what really happens on the FB510 is you adjust the front rail which controls the alignment of the fence versus the blade.??

As for blade marks, my best results are when I have glued my workpiece to a full-length torsion box with a sacrificial facing of masonite?or fiberboard.? The weight of the torsion box helps me to maintain a steady rate of feed and consistent contact between the workpiece and the fence.? That helps to avoid the stop and start saw marks.

Nevertheless, some saw marks seem to be inevitable.? Therefore, I try to cut at about 1/8" so I can run the veneers through a drum sander (mine is a SuperMax) to get a consistent?3/32" thickness and a good gluing surface.?

? ? ?Jim ? ??

James H. Fleming
925-683-1002

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