Does anyone use?resorcinol glue? For years this was the only Gov. approved glue for outdoor structural wood members. This has good shelf life - 2 part, powder and hardener. It has a long open time, unless you are working on a very hot day. (Open time is temp dependent, will not set up on a very cold day) The result is waterproof and not degraded by UV light like epoxy. It dries rigid with minimal creep. Brand is DAP. Ideal glue for exterior laminations. Glue line is darkish red.

Mark

On Mar 17, 2021, at 11:42 AM, imranindiana via <imranindiana@...> wrote:

Jonathan,

IIRC, thickened epoxy in general is weaker and used when a filler is needed due to imperfections in mating materials. Planned wood mates perfectly and just rolling the mixed epoxy is also quicker.

Imran

On Mar 17, 2021, at 11:29 AM, Jonathan Smith <jonathan.smith@...> wrote:

?Glen,

West System makes a lot of different stuff but if you are thinking about basic 105 epoxy then gluing up laminations is a common application.? The advantage is that it doesn't need clamping pressure like pva glue and is completely weather proof.? The downside is it takes longer to set but is kind of controllable with different hardners and shop temp.? Plan on 24 hours.? Word to the wise, let a piece fully cure before unclamping laminations in tension.? Otherwise, you will hear little popping sounds which are not good. Don't ask me how I know.

Depending on the surface roughness of the mating pieces you may want to use a thickener like fumed silica.? Surfaces are wetted out with un-thickened epoxy then go back and slather with the thickened.? You can play with consistency like pancake batter to peanut butter.? "They" say thickener will not affect the bonding. Thickened is a much easier material to wok with than the liquid form.? You probably know by now most tools become sacrificial although acetone can remove some uncured sticky stuff. Of course read the lit and talk to the dealers.? There are a ton of youtube videos out there.? Cedar strip canoes and kayaks have several smaller formed laminated parts like stems and seats.

<dummyfile.0.part>

Glen,

Not all boards pickup epoxy equally but depending upon how it was sawn some can pick up a lot. I have experienced this and I had to make multiple batches because it would keep sucking epoxy away. This can be bad for a lamination or a joint glue up.

West System recommends a 2 step process, first being a wetting process. One can wait as long as the open time before applying the 2nd coat. If it did not get sucked away in that duration then it is likely to remain where needed for the time required to cure.

I assume this is a structural element, it may be best to consult with pros. I know melamine urea formaldehyde, phenol resorcinol formaldehyde (dark color may not be desirable) and polyurethane are used by industry but not sure of conditions that guarantee the structural strength.

West System does publish ASTM test results for their various products on the website but do not mention which particular ASTM test and for this reason it is hard to find test results that can be compared.

Imran

On Mar 16, 2021, at 11:27 PM, Glen Christensen <grchris1966@...> wrote:

?All,
As you know I have been injecting the West System in to my totem pole for weeks now, not sure where it is going but The core of this log is a lot worse than I though.
At this point I am just trying to seal up the sides so I can invert it on the the head and do a pour down the inside.
That not my question, but in the time i wait for cure and to do it all again, i made the mistake of thinking.

How would the West System work for lamination?
I have a project coming, making some arched glue-lam rafters so to speak which I have done before and use Gorilla Glue, These are big enough that I am sure I can"t coat and clamp before the glue starts to go off.
Any thoughts on the bonding strengths, outside application on trying this.

Thank you all In advance as always
Glen

Hi Glen,

Contact West Systems support. They are excellent. They know their products well and are great problem solvers.?

Weldwood plastic resin glue is my go to for bent laminations. It's a powder, the catalyst is activated with water. It has a long open time, rolls easily with a foam roller. I clamp 24 hours. It cures glass hard with very minimal spring back.

Jason

Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765

--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406

Thanks Jason,

I will do that but you just solved my problem, That is exactly what I remember, A brown powder that he mixed and I was paint boy. No foam rollers back in those days.

He was making boat ribs at the time

I will call my hardwood supplier, they must have it.

Glen

Alpine Moulding and Millwork Inc.

Mail: ?? P.O. Box 257

?????????? Avery, CA. 95224

Shop: 441 Pennsylvania Gulch Road

????????? Murphys, CA. 95247

????????? 650-678-3137

LIC # 707507

On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 5:44 AM Jason Holtz <jholtzy@...> wrote:

Hi Glen,

Contact West Systems support. They are excellent. They know their products well and are great problem solvers.?

Weldwood plastic resin glue is my go to for bent laminations. It's a powder, the catalyst is activated with water. It has a long open time, rolls easily with a foam roller. I clamp 24 hours. It cures glass hard with very minimal spring back.

Jason

Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765

--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406

Glen,

West System makes a lot of different stuff but if you are thinking about basic 105 epoxy then gluing up laminations is a common application.? The advantage is that it doesn't need clamping pressure like pva glue and is completely weather proof.? The downside is it takes longer to set but is kind of controllable with different hardners and shop temp.? Plan on 24 hours.? Word to the wise, let a piece fully cure before unclamping laminations in tension.? Otherwise, you will hear little popping sounds which are not good. Don't ask me how I know.

Depending on the surface roughness of the mating pieces you may want to use a thickener like fumed silica.? Surfaces are wetted out with un-thickened epoxy then go back and slather with the thickened.? You can play with consistency like pancake batter to peanut butter.? "They" say thickener will not affect the bonding. Thickened is a much easier material to wok with than the liquid form.? You probably know by now most tools become sacrificial although acetone can remove some uncured sticky stuff. Of course read the lit and talk to the dealers.? There are a ton of youtube videos out there.? Cedar strip canoes and kayaks have several smaller formed laminated parts like stems and seats.

Does anyone use?resorcinol glue? For years this was the only Gov. approved glue for outdoor structural wood members. This has good shelf life - 2 part, powder and hardener. It has a long open time, unless you are working on a very hot day. (Open time is temp dependent, will not set up on a very cold day) The result is waterproof and not degraded by UV light like epoxy. It dries rigid with minimal creep. Brand is DAP. Ideal glue for exterior laminations. Glue line is darkish red.

Mark

On Mar 17, 2021, at 11:42 AM, imranindiana via <imranindiana@...> wrote:

Jonathan,

IIRC, thickened epoxy in general is weaker and used when a filler is needed due to imperfections in mating materials. Planned wood mates perfectly and just rolling the mixed epoxy is also quicker.

Imran

On Mar 17, 2021, at 11:29 AM, Jonathan Smith <jonathan.smith@...> wrote:

?Glen,

West System makes a lot of different stuff but if you are thinking about basic 105 epoxy then gluing up laminations is a common application.? The advantage is that it doesn't need clamping pressure like pva glue and is completely weather proof.? The downside is it takes longer to set but is kind of controllable with different hardners and shop temp.? Plan on 24 hours.? Word to the wise, let a piece fully cure before unclamping laminations in tension.? Otherwise, you will hear little popping sounds which are not good. Don't ask me how I know.

Depending on the surface roughness of the mating pieces you may want to use a thickener like fumed silica.? Surfaces are wetted out with un-thickened epoxy then go back and slather with the thickened.? You can play with consistency like pancake batter to peanut butter.? "They" say thickener will not affect the bonding. Thickened is a much easier material to wok with than the liquid form.? You probably know by now most tools become sacrificial although acetone can remove some uncured sticky stuff. Of course read the lit and talk to the dealers.? There are a ton of youtube videos out there.? Cedar strip canoes and kayaks have several smaller formed laminated parts like stems and seats.

<dummyfile.0.part>

The resorcinol glues today are of a much lower formaldehyde content then in the past, still a likely a concern but not sure if it’s any worse then the others chemicals you would be exposed to in a woodshop.?

I have used it a little over the years for where I needed a hard glue line - bent laminations, burl veneers but I have also used yellow quite a bit with success. Would still recommend urea for a bent lami, however have used yellow and just added a little extra bend to account for the spring back which works if you are designing your own pieces but may not if you are working to an architects specs. I have some walnut burl tables and a Humidor that I pressed with yellow about 25yrs ago and they are still good. I also worked n a corporate/custom shop where we built 100k + boardroom tables and don’t remember using anything special.?

With that said, today i would use slowset tightbond at a min on flat panels, it sets up pretty hard for a pva, no special mixing and I already have some, next would be unibond 1 which is an even harder pva and lastly urea (although I may use urea anyways as I am getting more paranoid in my older age).?

And i would never use epoxy unless it was a boat...?

Regards, Mark

On Mar 17, 2021, at 1:22 PM, Brett Wissel <Brettwissel@...> wrote:

resorcinol

Glen,

Sorry, I thought you were starting on the 20’ long DF project. You probably do not want to see reddish brown glue lines on that.

Imran?

On Mar 17, 2021, at 10:56 PM, Glen Christensen <grchris1966@...> wrote:

?

Mark and everyone, Thank you for all the feedback,

To clarify I am making three curved ribs that are going to raters for my shop overhand at the door. The seat cut to seat cut 8 ft with a rise of 14 inches, to me a very easy bend.

The net finish is to be 2.5"x 7" give or take. one of my suppliers has 1/2"' x 3-1/4 clear pine sized in stock so I can skip the planing process and at my cost of About 100 per beam, to spend a couple of hundred more to do a glue test between West and Plastic resin or resorcinol is worth it just see what's better.

Glen

Alpine Moulding and Millwork Inc.

Mail: ?? P.O. Box 257

?????????? Avery, CA. 95224

Shop: 441 Pennsylvania Gulch Road

????????? Murphys, CA. 95247

????????? 650-678-3137

LIC # 707507

On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:46 AM Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:

The resorcinol glues today are of a much lower formaldehyde content then in the past, still a likely a concern but not sure if it’s any worse then the others chemicals you would be exposed to in a woodshop.?

I have used it a little over the years for where I needed a hard glue line - bent laminations, burl veneers but I have also used yellow quite a bit with success. Would still recommend urea for a bent lami, however have used yellow and just added a little extra bend to account for the spring back which works if you are designing your own pieces but may not if you are working to an architects specs. I have some walnut burl tables and a Humidor that I pressed with yellow about 25yrs ago and they are still good. I also worked n a corporate/custom shop where we built 100k + boardroom tables and don’t remember using anything special.?

With that said, today i would use slowset tightbond at a min on flat panels, it sets up pretty hard for a pva, no special mixing and I already have some, next would be unibond 1 which is an even harder pva and lastly urea (although I may use urea anyways as I am getting more paranoid in my older age).?

And i would never use epoxy unless it was a boat...?

Regards, Mark

On Mar 17, 2021, at 1:22 PM, Brett Wissel <Brettwissel@...> wrote:

resorcinol