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Specifically 430-149.
I have seen a few you tube videos, but has anyone used the incra with good results?
I have it for my router table and seems like a better play.
Thoughts?
PK
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This has been discussed many times here. ?I recommend you search the archives for “parallel fence”. ?
IMO, a better alternative to the Felder parallel fence would be one with a DRO rather than an Incra unit. ?The challenge with a lot of these is getting the parallel fence stop to be identically positioned to the stop on the crosscut fence so both ends of the cut are precisely the same width. ?An Incra parallel fence isn’t going to help with that IMO. ?
I find setting the stop position precisely on the Felder unit challenging because the calibration lens is so far from the markings on the tape. It leads to lots of parallax error. ?Brian Lamb makes a very nice alternative with much improved readability of the measuring scale. ?He also makes a version with digital readout. ?
I am very fussy about getting the crosscut and parallel fence stops identically positioned. ?Nothing bothers me more that to be assembling a cabinet only to find the front and back of two adjoining panels are 1mm different in width. ?I came up with my own contraption to get the parallel fence stop to agree with the crosscut stop position exactly. ? You can see that here along with the Felder and other parallel fence alternatives including the versions from Brian: ?
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
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Specifically 430-149.
I have seen a few you tube videos, but has anyone used the incra with good results?
I have it for my router table and seems like a better play.
Thoughts?
PK
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Very interesting,
I do have lamb parallel fence (not the DRO) and tried to avoid mixing crosscut and parallel fence cuts in my design/assembly to avoid this issue. However, I like your method but I do not have those holes on the cast iron for my table saw. Are those holes the ones to setup the scoring blade? If yes, how do you do on your kappa which is supposed to have an automated scoring blade and maybe no more hole?
Thanks,
Bill
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I have one of Brian's parallels and agree it is the one to buy.? I don't use it often as I have a power feeder on a saw for ripping but when I do, I set the crosscut stop, and then use Brian's square and set the parallel using it.? I then slide the parallel
down to the position I want.? A square panel would get you the same result.? Dave
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This has been discussed many times here. ?I recommend you search the archives for “parallel fence”. ?
IMO, a better alternative to the Felder parallel fence would be one with a DRO rather than an Incra unit. ?The challenge with a lot of these is getting the parallel fence stop to be identically positioned to the stop on the crosscut fence so both
ends of the cut are precisely the same width. ?An Incra parallel fence isn’t going to help with that IMO. ?
I find setting the stop position precisely on the Felder unit challenging because the calibration lens is so far from the markings on the tape. It leads to lots of parallax error. ?Brian Lamb makes a very nice alternative with much improved readability
of the measuring scale. ?He also makes a version with digital readout. ?
I am very fussy about getting the crosscut and parallel fence stops identically positioned. ?Nothing bothers me more that to be assembling a cabinet only to find the front and back of two adjoining panels are 1mm different in width. ?I came up
with my own contraption to get the parallel fence stop to agree with the crosscut stop position exactly. ? You can see that here along with the Felder and other parallel fence alternatives including the versions from Brian: ?
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
Specifically 430-149.
I have seen a few you tube videos, but has anyone used the incra with good results?
I have it for my router table and seems like a better play.
Thoughts?
PK
|
I have the Felder version and it does suffer from the parallax effect but it’s close enough for general cabinetry, if i need it perfect (whatever that is) i just use my Starrett combo square set to the xcut stop, of course then you are limited 12” or 24” depending on the rule you have. In all the cabinetry I have built i have never found it to be a problem of it is a little bit not perfect, furniture and freestanding cabinetry is a different story - I do want that perfect.
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I have Felder's parallel fence, no question it is IMPOSSIBLE to set the stop precisely, simply a bad?design.?
I like David Best's method to set the parallel fence?stop to the precise position of the crosscut fence stop position. Just need to work out a wooden version based on David Best's design.
James
I have the Felder version and it does suffer from the parallax effect but it’s close enough for general cabinetry, if i need it perfect (whatever that is) i just use my Starrett combo square set to the xcut stop, of course then you are limited 12” or 24” depending on the rule you have. In all the cabinetry I have built i have never found it to be a problem of it is a little bit not perfect, furniture and freestanding cabinetry is a different story - I do want that perfect.
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Given that we just came out with the new versions of the parallel fences that use linear rails… there are a lot of older units that got upgraded. That leaves the old measuring rod, end stop and rear mounting block as left over parts. So, for anybody wanting to make a “stop setter” those are the parts you need. You really don’t need to use the round end stop either, just flip the measuring rod around and use the square end that’s opposite the end stop.
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I have Felder's parallel fence, no question it is IMPOSSIBLE to set the stop precisely, simply a bad?design.?
I like David Best's method to set the parallel fence?stop to the precise position of the crosscut fence stop position. Just need to work out a wooden version based on David Best's design.
<Capture.JPG>
James
I have the Felder version and it does suffer from the parallax effect but it’s close enough for general cabinetry, if i need it perfect (whatever that is) i just use my Starrett combo square set to the xcut stop, of course then you are limited 12” or 24” depending on the rule you have. In all the cabinetry I have built i have never found it to be a problem of it is a little bit not perfect, furniture and freestanding cabinetry is a different story - I do want that perfect.
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Brian,
How much are these parts?
Imran?
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On Dec 13, 2020, at 12:16 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote: ? Given that we just came out with the new versions of the parallel fences that use linear rails… there are a lot of older units that got upgraded. That leaves the old measuring rod, end stop and rear mounting block as left over parts. So, for anybody wanting to make a “stop setter” those are the parts you need. You really don’t need to use the round end stop either, just flip the measuring rod around and use the square end that’s opposite the end stop.
I have Felder's parallel fence, no question it is IMPOSSIBLE to set the stop precisely, simply a bad?design.?
I like David Best's method to set the parallel fence?stop to the precise position of the crosscut fence stop position. Just need to work out a wooden version based on David Best's design.
<Capture.JPG>
James
I have the Felder version and it does suffer from the parallax effect but it’s close enough for general cabinetry, if i need it perfect (whatever that is) i just use my Starrett combo square set to the xcut stop, of course then you are limited 12” or 24” depending on the rule you have. In all the cabinetry I have built i have never found it to be a problem of it is a little bit not perfect, furniture and freestanding cabinetry is a different story - I do want that perfect.
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A story stick set from the rip fence is another quick and easy way to set both fences identical. Or an adjustable square off the side of the slider... I have videos on youtube showing that, search dmogbrian?
=============== Brian Lamb blamb11@... Phoenix, AZ ===============
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Very interesting,
I do have lamb parallel fence (not the DRO) and tried to avoid mixing crosscut and parallel fence cuts in my design/assembly to avoid this issue. However, I like your method but I do not have those holes on the cast iron for my table saw. Are those holes the
ones to setup the scoring blade? If yes, how do you do on your kappa which is supposed to have an automated scoring blade and maybe no more hole?
Thanks,
Bill
-- Brian Lamb blamb11@...? ?
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Ask here, whoever has upgraded has them (I don't have them send them back as I don't want to deal with used parts and shipping and such). Those that had two units might want to keep one for themselves and sell the other.
I might have one or two sets of parts laying around, I'd have to look.
A base could be a simple block of wood with a couple of small pins sticking down to catch on the edge of the cast iron table in the gap between the table and slider.
=============== Brian Lamb blamb11@... Phoenix, AZ ===============
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Brian,
How much are these parts?
Imran?
On Dec 13, 2020, at 12:16 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
?Given that we just came out with the new versions of the parallel fences that use linear rails… there are a lot of older units that got upgraded. That leaves the old measuring rod, end stop and rear mounting block as left over parts. So, for
anybody wanting to make a “stop setter” those are the parts you need. You really don’t need to use the round end stop either, just flip the measuring rod around and use the square end that’s opposite the end stop.
I have Felder's parallel fence, no question it is IMPOSSIBLE to set the stop precisely, simply a bad?design.?
I like David Best's method to set the parallel fence?stop to the precise position of the crosscut fence stop position. Just need to work out a wooden version based on David Best's design.
<Capture.JPG>
James
I have the Felder version and it does suffer from the parallax effect but it’s close enough for general cabinetry, if i need it perfect (whatever that is) i just use my Starrett combo square set to the xcut stop, of course then you
are limited 12” or 24” depending on the rule you have. In all the cabinetry I have built i have never found it to be a problem of it is a little bit not perfect, furniture and freestanding cabinetry is a different story - I do want that perfect.
-- Brian Lamb blamb11@...? ?
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Thanks Brian. I misunderstood; thought you had these spares. No worries.
imran
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On Dec 13, 2020, at 12:26 PM, Brian Lamb <bklamb1@...> wrote: ?
Ask here, whoever has upgraded has them (I don't have them send them back as I don't want to deal with used parts and shipping and such). Those that had two units might want to keep one for themselves and sell the other.
I might have one or two sets of parts laying around, I'd have to look.
A base could be a simple block of wood with a couple of small pins sticking down to catch on the edge of the cast iron table in the gap between the table and slider.
=============== Brian Lamb blamb11@... Phoenix, AZ ===============
Brian,
How much are these parts?
Imran?
On Dec 13, 2020, at 12:16 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
?Given that we just came out with the new versions of the parallel fences that use linear rails… there are a lot of older units that got upgraded. That leaves the old measuring rod, end stop and rear mounting block as left over parts. So, for
anybody wanting to make a “stop setter” those are the parts you need. You really don’t need to use the round end stop either, just flip the measuring rod around and use the square end that’s opposite the end stop.
I have Felder's parallel fence, no question it is IMPOSSIBLE to set the stop precisely, simply a bad?design.?
I like David Best's method to set the parallel fence?stop to the precise position of the crosscut fence stop position. Just need to work out a wooden version based on David Best's design.
<Capture.JPG>
James
I have the Felder version and it does suffer from the parallax effect but it’s close enough for general cabinetry, if i need it perfect (whatever that is) i just use my Starrett combo square set to the xcut stop, of course then you
are limited 12” or 24” depending on the rule you have. In all the cabinetry I have built i have never found it to be a problem of it is a little bit not perfect, furniture and freestanding cabinetry is a different story - I do want that perfect.
-- Brian Lamb blamb11@...? ?
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I like David's solution for equalizing the parallel fences but I think it can be simplified by using a magnetic base to hold it to the cast iron table instead of the very accurate base that David fabricated. I also use this type of a magnet as a bump stop and it works very well.  Ariel
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How can it get any easier or reliable than the process illustrated in Brian’s video?? Just use an adjustable square.? Am I missing something?? Although I do need to upgrade my DRO Lamb parallel to the latest update. Hopefully parts are still available as I have drug my feet on doing it... ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xcjWUX4QqM ? Chris Perren ? ? ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of ahazi Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2020 12:29 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [FOG] Incra LS fence vs. Felder rip fence for x-roll ? I like David's solution for equalizing the parallel fences but I think it can be simplified by using a magnetic base to hold it to the cast iron table instead of the very accurate base that David fabricated. I also use this type of a magnet as a bump stop and it works very well.
Ariel
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You are not missing anything, my experience has been if you 0 the parallel stop to the blade by bringing it up to the tooth it’s close enough for most work but there is nothing wrong trying to be better about it, especially if you have that kind of time...
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On Dec 13, 2020, at 1:50 PM, Chris Perren <cperren@...> wrote:
? How can it get any easier or reliable than the process illustrated in Brian’s video?? Just use an adjustable square.? Am I missing something?? Although I do need to upgrade my DRO Lamb parallel to the latest update. Hopefully parts are still available as I have drug my feet on doing it... ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xcjWUX4QqM ? Chris Perren ? ? ? ? I like David's solution for equalizing the parallel fences but I think it can be simplified by using a magnetic base to hold it to the cast iron table instead of the very accurate base that David fabricated. I also use this type of a magnet as a bump stop and it works very well.
Ariel
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I use my parallel fences everyday, and even with my aging eyeballs I can just go to my hairline pointers on the crosscut and parallel fence and get less than .010” difference, which is generally close enough. But, if I want within a couple thousandths of an inch, I use the method shown in the video that Chris so kindly linked, either using an adjustable square off the edge of the slider (I have 12 and 18” blades), or you can use a scrap piece of stick and bring the rip fence up to snug the stick between the crosscut stop and the rip fence, then move the slider down and set the parallel fence the same way. However you do it, the results are within .002”-.004” in my experience. I find it really important when doing a stack of say 6 drawer fronts and trying to hold minimum gaps between the drawers…. if each drawer front was .010 out of parallel, you’d have a 1/16” gap or out of parallel situation in short order.
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You are not missing anything, my experience has been if you 0 the parallel stop to the blade by bringing it up to the tooth it’s close enough for most work but there is nothing wrong trying to be better about it, especially if you have that kind of time...On Dec 13, 2020, at 1:50 PM, Chris Perren <cperren@...> wrote:
? How can it get any easier or reliable than the process illustrated in Brian’s video?? Just use an adjustable square.? Am I missing something?? Although I do need to upgrade my DRO Lamb parallel to the latest update. Hopefully parts are still available as I have drug my feet on doing it...? ? ? Chris Perren ? ? ? ? I like David's solution for equalizing the parallel fences but I think it can be simplified by using a magnetic base to hold it to the cast iron table instead of the very accurate base that David fabricated. I also use this type of a magnet as a bump stop and it works very well. Ariel ?
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The prototype version of my stop setter was made of wood, with magnetic latches to the case iron top. ?Over the past few years, a few people on FOG asked for the parts list and copied the design. ?So I’ll post the details below in case anyone else wants to make a version with telescoping arm. ?I was after more accuracy than can be achieved using Brian’s “from slider edge” method. ?The inner edge on all of the sliding tables I’ve owned is not a flat reference surface and thus varies by 1-2mm along it’s length. ?I build to higher standards than that even on kitchen cabinets. ?“Close enough” is not in my vocabulary. ?To each their own.
This earlier implementation is based on a telescoping monopod by Manfroto - took me a while to zone in on something that was the right length, would collapse, be reasonably rigid, and off the shelf. ?I started with this:
The MagSwitch units are available from a lot of sources, but Grizzly is the cheapest for the smaller version I used. ?I bought the MagSwitch #95 which is just adequate. ?I would recommend using a pair of the MagSwitch 150 units which have stronger holding power.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
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I like David's solution for equalizing the parallel fences but I think it can be simplified by using a magnetic base to hold it to the cast iron table instead of the very accurate base that David fabricated. I also use this type of a magnet as a bump stop and it works very well. Ariel
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Parts will be available, it’s the same stuff we are using in the current manufacture. We just got in a whole bunch more of the linear rails, so we have everything on hand for any upgrades that are desired.
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On Dec 13, 2020, at 11:49 AM, Chris Perren < cperren@...> wrote:
How can it get any easier or reliable than the process illustrated in Brian’s video?? Just use an adjustable square.? Am I missing something?? Although I do need to upgrade my DRO Lamb parallel to the latest update. Hopefully parts are still available as I have drug my feet on doing it... ? ? Chris Perren ? ? ? ? I like David's solution for equalizing the parallel fences but I think it can be simplified by using a magnetic base to hold it to the cast iron table instead of the very accurate base that David fabricated. I also use this type of a magnet as a bump stop and it works very well.
Ariel
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Very nice advices,
I tested with a square on the crosscut fence, but Brian's square is too small to reach the parallel fence from my outrigger fence. I also use the adjustable square for small parallel rip, but mine is 12 inches and does not work for wider cut. I also measured with a caliper the result and yes, either I am doing something wrong, or David is right and the inner edge of the sliding table is not as precise as I thought.
I am more on David's side in term of precision as when something goes wrong during assembly I prefer to eliminate all sources of error I could so I can concentrate on the pure assembly side. It took me 1 year with my "tuned" K500 and everything planed and jointed to the best of my knowledge to realize that the Kreg stuff is not up to par as some have already posted.
It might be stupid but David's solution with Brian's parallel guide and some magswitch instead of pin in the cast iron, seems like a good idea on paper, just thinking out loud.
Bill
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I like the wooden design David.? How did you mount the monopod inside the wooden enclosure and keep it from moving or spining?
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Hi Jeff,
The OP was about the parallel fence alternatives - I didn’t expect the interest in the stop setting gizmo. ??
But since you asked, here are a couple more photos of the prototype, and hopefully ?you can see that the telescoping monopod (with grip handle removed) is captivated with a slight interference fit in a U-channel routed into the plywood cover that is screwed down to the plywood base. ?That cover piece is two layers of 3/4" Applyply glued together, then routed out on one side. ?I also added some photos to this link: ??
These are the MagSwitches I used: ? ??They are pretty handy for a variety of things including holding featherboards and stops to the cast iron table, etc.. They come in a few sizes and strengths.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
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I like the wooden design David.? How did you mount the monopod inside the wooden enclosure and keep it from moving or spining?
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PK
David P. Best
imran