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Hi, having used my Dual51for about 12 months just recently, I noticed the carbide inserts need attention.
The closest half of the cutter block has worn faster than the back half (as I find it difficult to reach all the way back for jointing boards).
The inserts still do a very reasonable job cutting, but they have worn down.? I can just feel the end of the board hitting the leading edge of the outfeed table so I know it needs attention. And... It doesn't happen when I use the back half of the cutter block
My assumption for best practice would be to rotate all the inserts at once.? I'm wondering if swapping the front half with the back half (and keep using the same edge) to prolong their life might be a good idea?
Cheers
David
Cambridge, New Zealand
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My dual51 has tersa head but for your mentioned concern, I have been jointing on front (near operator) of cutterhead and try to plane most often on the back. This may actually wear the feeding mechanism unevenly so I am not sure if I should continue this practice. ? Imran ?
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From: [email protected] On Behalf Of david.r.milson@... Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2020 5:11 PM To: [email protected]Subject: [FOG] ideas for changing the carbide inserts on silent power cutterblock #spiralcutterhead ? Hi, having used my Dual51for about 12 months just recently, I noticed the carbide inserts need attention.
The closest half of the cutter block has worn faster than the back half (as I find it difficult to reach all the way back for jointing boards).
The inserts still do a very reasonable job cutting, but they have worn down.? I can just feel the end of the board hitting the leading edge of the outfeed table so I know it needs attention. And... It doesn't happen when I use the back half of the cutter block
My assumption for best practice would be to rotate all the inserts at once.? I'm wondering if swapping the front half with the back half (and keep using the same edge) to prolong their life might be a good idea?
Cheers
David
Cambridge, New Zealand
|
Hey David,
I don’t own a dual51, but I do have carbide insert heads. In the last 12 months, about how many board feet have you put through the machine? Unless you processed 5,000ish board feet, I don’t think the inserts should be dull. A J/P cutterhead does double duty, but I’ve found the carbide heads can eat a ton of lumber. Like you, I rotated mine after about a year, and that was not the best decision. I noticed zero difference in the board’s surface finish before and after rotating.?
Sounds like your outfeed table is out of parallel with the cutterhead. If I had to guess.?
Patrick
On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 5:34 PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: My dual51 has tersa head but for your mentioned concern, I have been jointing on front (near operator) of cutterhead and try to plane most often on the back. This may actually wear the feeding mechanism unevenly so I am not sure if I should continue this practice. ? Imran ? ? Hi, having used my Dual51for about 12 months just recently, I noticed the carbide inserts need attention.
The closest half of the cutter block has worn faster than the back half (as I find it difficult to reach all the way back for jointing boards).
The inserts still do a very reasonable job cutting, but they have worn down.? I can just feel the end of the board hitting the leading edge of the outfeed table so I know it needs attention. And... It doesn't happen when I use the back half of the cutter block
My assumption for best practice would be to rotate all the inserts at once.? I'm wondering if swapping the front half with the back half (and keep using the same edge) to prolong their life might be a good idea?
Cheers
David
Cambridge, New Zealand
|
Hi David, I've had my 941 running nonstop for about 2 1/2 years and have put a lot of material through it. I think it's time to turn the cutters because there are a few nicks here and there, but they still leave a nice finish otherwise, no tear out. I think your issue is actually with your outfeed table, not your cutters. Your mechanism is a little different than mine, but the basic arrangement is the same, with bump stops for table height adjustment and a latch to pull the table into the stops. In my case, I had an issue where the table wasn't quite reaching the stops because the latch was set a little too high (my machine has cam levers, and the one for the outfeed table would spin without tightening), so I adjusted the latch down a little. But you might just need to tweak your bump stop to let the table sit down a little more. This issue would affect the side closest to the operator much more than the far side, because the pivot point is so close to the other side. Hope that makes sense! -Shawn
On Wednesday, November 25, 2020, 02:10:34 PM PST, david.r.milson@... <david.r.milson@...> wrote:
Hi, having used my Dual51for about 12 months just recently, I noticed the carbide inserts need attention.
The closest half of the cutter block has worn faster than the back half (as I find it difficult to reach all the way back for jointing boards).
The inserts still do a very reasonable job cutting, but they have worn down.? I can just feel the end of the board hitting the leading edge of the outfeed table so I know it needs attention. And... It doesn't happen when I use the back half of the cutter block
My assumption for best practice would be to rotate all the inserts at once.? I'm wondering if swapping the front half with the back half (and keep using the same edge) to prolong their life might be a good idea?
Cheers
David
Cambridge, New Zealand
|
Imran? Always a good idea to move from right to left and vice versa down knives wear the same. Also always trim the material ends before ?planning . ?Don’t pile wood on floors that were the dirt is.? On the combo machines with temple bolts all temple should sit all at ounce and wen tighten should not move. You can see this if you put an indicator on the cutter head resting on the table on front edge. Mac,,, Designing and building for 50 years
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On Nov 25, 2020, at 8:11 PM, Shawn Kammerer via groups.io <shawnkammerer@...> wrote:
?
Hi David, I've had my 941 running nonstop for about 2 1/2 years and have put a lot of material through it. I think it's time to turn the cutters because there are a few nicks here and there, but they still leave a nice finish otherwise, no tear out. I think your issue is actually with your outfeed table, not your cutters. Your mechanism is a little different than mine, but the basic arrangement is the same, with bump stops for table height adjustment and a latch to pull the table into the stops. In my case, I had an issue where the table wasn't quite reaching the stops because the latch was set a little too high (my machine has cam levers, and the one for the outfeed table would spin without tightening), so I adjusted the latch down a little. But you might just need to tweak your bump stop to let the table sit down a little more. This issue would affect the side closest to the operator much more than the far side, because the pivot point is so close to the other side. Hope that makes sense! -Shawn
On Wednesday, November 25, 2020, 02:10:34 PM PST, david.r.milson@... <david.r.milson@...> wrote:
Hi, having used my Dual51for about 12 months just recently, I noticed the carbide inserts need attention.
The closest half of the cutter block has worn faster than the back half (as I find it difficult to reach all the way back for jointing boards).
The inserts still do a very reasonable job cutting, but they have worn down.? I can just feel the end of the board hitting the leading edge of the outfeed table so I know it needs attention. And... It doesn't happen when I use the back half of the cutter block
My assumption for best practice would be to rotate all the inserts at once.? I'm wondering if swapping the front half with the back half (and keep using the same edge) to prolong their life might be a good idea?
Cheers
David
Cambridge, New Zealand
|
thanks Mac. good to know.
imran
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On Nov 25, 2020, at 11:10 PM, Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression <airtightclamps@...> wrote: ? Imran? Always a good idea to move from right to left and vice versa down knives wear the same. Also always trim the material ends before ?planning . ?Don’t pile wood on floors that were the dirt is.? On the combo machines with temple bolts all temple should sit all at ounce and wen tighten should not move. You can see this if you put an indicator on the cutter head resting on the table on front edge. Mac,,, Designing and building for 50 years On Nov 25, 2020, at 8:11 PM, Shawn Kammerer via groups.io <shawnkammerer@...> wrote:
?
Hi David, I've had my 941 running nonstop for about 2 1/2 years and have put a lot of material through it. I think it's time to turn the cutters because there are a few nicks here and there, but they still leave a nice finish otherwise, no tear out. I think your issue is actually with your outfeed table, not your cutters. Your mechanism is a little different than mine, but the basic arrangement is the same, with bump stops for table height adjustment and a latch to pull the table into the stops. In my case, I had an issue where the table wasn't quite reaching the stops because the latch was set a little too high (my machine has cam levers, and the one for the outfeed table would spin without tightening), so I adjusted the latch down a little. But you might just need to tweak your bump stop to let the table sit down a little more. This issue would affect the side closest to the operator much more than the far side, because the pivot point is so close to the other side. Hope that makes sense! -Shawn
On Wednesday, November 25, 2020, 02:10:34 PM PST, david.r.milson@... <david.r.milson@...> wrote:
Hi, having used my Dual51for about 12 months just recently, I noticed the carbide inserts need attention.
The closest half of the cutter block has worn faster than the back half (as I find it difficult to reach all the way back for jointing boards).
The inserts still do a very reasonable job cutting, but they have worn down.? I can just feel the end of the board hitting the leading edge of the outfeed table so I know it needs attention. And... It doesn't happen when I use the back half of the cutter block
My assumption for best practice would be to rotate all the inserts at once.? I'm wondering if swapping the front half with the back half (and keep using the same edge) to prolong their life might be a good idea?
Cheers
David
Cambridge, New Zealand
|
I put a spiral head from Byrd on my JP.? I got it from Felder,?
Carl was? looking to let it go cheap? because they were no longer?
installing them? having developed their own? So I think I got it
for Felder's price.? This was a while ago? more than a few years.?
I have only turned a couple of the inserts because they got
chipped.
And I really don't think I see much difference from brand new.?
But If I start doing? highly figured wood I may have to rotate 'em
all.?
So unless you see a problem,? why fix something that ain't broke.
There Was a fellow on the forum? who is in Hawaii.? He told me
back then about a less expensive option for the inserts than
buying the inserts for the Byrd head from Felder. But I've lost
that? information
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Hi, having used my Dual51for about 12 months just recently, I
noticed the carbide inserts need attention.
The closest half of the cutter block has worn faster than the back
half (as I find it difficult to reach all the way back for
jointing boards).
The inserts still do a very reasonable job cutting, but they have
worn down.? I can just feel the end of the board hitting the
leading edge of the outfeed table so I know it needs attention.
And... It doesn't happen when I use the back half of the cutter
block
My assumption for best practice would be to rotate all the inserts
at once.? I'm wondering if swapping the front half with the back
half (and keep using the same edge) to prolong their life might be
a good idea?
Cheers
David
Cambridge, New Zealand
|
I think I ground the knives in the Oliver ITCH head about 3 years ago. That's in a shop with 4 full time furniture makers. They still don't really need it, which is great since the grinding is a serious chore. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Thanks Patrick
Initially, I could not imagine I'd put through anywhere near 5000 board feet.? Then, I wondered what this means!? If I prepare a face and edge on a 10' board across the jointer say passing it 4 times over the cutter head, is this 10 board feet or 40 board feet?? Then lifting the lid and doing the parallel faces in the thicknesser could make it a total of 60+ board feet (for the 10' board)?? If it is 40 or 60 then 5000 board does not seem unreasonable for the machine and I would have easily done 5000' in 12 months.?
Also, some timber recently was extremely dusty (which I assue was a lot of dirt build up, which I had brushed as best I could but can't have been good for the edge of the carbide.?
Both the infeed and outfeed tables appeared to?be parallel (co-planar) when checked with a level longer than the 2 tables (used as a straight edge) a week ago when I became aware of the problem.? After reading your response this afternoon I got my (shorter) straight edge out to double check, but got interrupted so will get back to this hopefully tomorrow.??
Cheers, David
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On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 06:11 PM, Shawn Kammerer wrote:
Hi David,
I've had my 941 running nonstop for about 2 1/2 years and have put a lot of material through it. I think it's time to turn the cutters because there are a few nicks here and there, but they still leave a nice finish otherwise, no tear out. I think your issue is actually with your outfeed table, not your cutters. Your mechanism is a little different than mine, but the basic arrangement is the same, with bump stops for table height adjustment and a latch to pull the table into the stops. In my case, I had an issue where the table wasn't quite reaching the stops because the latch was set a little too high (my machine has cam levers, and the one for the outfeed table would spin without tightening), so I adjusted the latch down a little. But you might just need to tweak your bump stop to let the table sit down a little more. This issue would affect the side closest to the operator much more than the far side, because the pivot point is so close to the other side. Hope that makes sense!
-Shawn
Thanks Shaun
Before the Dual51, I had a similar machine to yours - an AD951.
Having read your reply a couple of times, I think you are saying the table may not be coming back down low enough when changing over from thicknesser to do jointing.? This sounds like a good one to check first, which I will do!? Cheers, David
|
David,
From what your originally described, I don’t think this is a coplanar issue. Although, it might turn out to be. If your board catches the lip of the outfeed table at one side of the machine and not the other, then I don’t believe the table is parallel with the cutterhead. Instead of a straight edge, do you have a dial indicator on a base? I have a one way jig, which is what I use for this exercise. You need to set it on the outfeed table with the indicator touching the cutterhead and run it side to side and see if there is a change. I suspect there will be a change.?
Patrick
On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 06:11 PM, Shawn Kammerer wrote:
Hi David,
I've had my 941 running nonstop for about 2 1/2 years and have put a lot of material through it. I think it's time to turn the cutters because there are a few nicks here and there, but they still leave a nice finish otherwise, no tear out. I think your issue is actually with your outfeed table, not your cutters. Your mechanism is a little different than mine, but the basic arrangement is the same, with bump stops for table height adjustment and a latch to pull the table into the stops. In my case, I had an issue where the table wasn't quite reaching the stops because the latch was set a little too high (my machine has cam levers, and the one for the outfeed table would spin without tightening), so I adjusted the latch down a little. But you might just need to tweak your bump stop to let the table sit down a little more. This issue would affect the side closest to the operator much more than the far side, because the pivot point is so close to the other side. Hope that makes sense!
-Shawn
Thanks Shaun
Before the Dual51, I had a similar machine to yours - an AD951.
Having read your reply a couple of times, I think you are saying the table may not be coming back down low enough when changing over from thicknesser to do jointing.? This sounds like a good one to check first, which I will do!? Cheers, David
|
If you don't have a gauge the procedure in the
link below works to check if the cutters are parallel?
to the outfeed table.
--
Jerry P
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans.
"You can observe a lot by watching."? Yogi Berra
|
I keep a tight tolerance on the pressure bar on my Powermatic planer. ?I try to have the pressure bar just .001” higher than the cutters.? This really
helps that small 12” PM100 with snipe but if the cutters get at all dull it has trouble feeding.? I have a Byrd head in mine and the carbide cutters when many years before the first rotation.? But in the past 6 months I’ve run a bunch of reclaimed oak beams
through the jointer, planer, and bandsaw and all three are dull.? I’ve rotated the cutters on the jointer and I’ve send the bandsaw blade off to be resharpened.?
?
Bottom line, in my experience what you are running makes a huge difference.
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of david.r.milson@...
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 1:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] ideas for changing the carbide inserts on silent power cutterblock #spiralcutterhead
?
Thanks Patrick
Initially, I could not imagine I'd put through anywhere near 5000 board feet.? Then, I wondered what this means!? If I prepare a face and edge on a 10' board across the jointer say passing it 4 times over the cutter head, is this 10 board feet or 40 board feet??
Then lifting the lid and doing the parallel faces in the thicknesser could make it a total of 60+ board feet (for the 10' board)?? If it is 40 or 60 then 5000 board does not seem unreasonable for the machine and I would have easily done 5000' in 12 months.?
Also, some timber recently was extremely dusty (which I assue was a lot of dirt build up, which I had brushed as best I could but can't have been good for the edge of the carbide.?
Both the infeed and outfeed tables appeared to?be parallel (co-planar) when checked with a level longer than the 2 tables (used as a straight edge) a week ago when I became aware of the problem.? After reading your response this afternoon I got my (shorter)
straight edge out to double check, but got interrupted so will get back to this hopefully tomorrow.??
Cheers, David
|
Imran, I am in your camp - joint near, plane far on my Dual 51 -- 368 of those suckers - errr, cutters -? so replacing them is not only a bit of $ it is also time.? As others have mentioned, what you are running makes a difference. It's a royal pain in the butt, but when I'm running reconditioned / rescued material, I always put it through the sander first to remove dust and those tiny silicates which are not visible, but boy, do they wear down the cutters. Some yards are delivering fairly dusty materials and they also get this treatment. SInce instituting this practice I have got very long life out of my cutters. My Swedish - German ancestors are again at peace in their thrifty graves ;-) Cheers Eric
I keep a tight tolerance on the pressure bar on my Powermatic planer.? I try to have the pressure bar just .001” higher than the cutters.? This really
helps that small 12” PM100 with snipe but if the cutters get at all dull it has trouble feeding.? I have a Byrd head in mine and the carbide cutters when many years before the first rotation.? But in the past 6 months I’ve run a bunch of reclaimed oak beams
through the jointer, planer, and bandsaw and all three are dull.? I’ve rotated the cutters on the jointer and I’ve send the bandsaw blade off to be resharpened.?
?
Bottom line, in my experience what you are running makes a huge difference.
?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of david.r.milson@...
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 1:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] ideas for changing the carbide inserts on silent power cutterblock #spiralcutterhead
?
Thanks Patrick
Initially, I could not imagine I'd put through anywhere near 5000 board feet.? Then, I wondered what this means!? If I prepare a face and edge on a 10' board across the jointer say passing it 4 times over the cutter head, is this 10 board feet or 40 board feet??
Then lifting the lid and doing the parallel faces in the thicknesser could make it a total of 60+ board feet (for the 10' board)?? If it is 40 or 60 then 5000 board does not seem unreasonable for the machine and I would have easily done 5000' in 12 months.?
Also, some timber recently was extremely dusty (which I assue was a lot of dirt build up, which I had brushed as best I could but can't have been good for the edge of the carbide.?
Both the infeed and outfeed tables appeared to?be parallel (co-planar) when checked with a level longer than the 2 tables (used as a straight edge) a week ago when I became aware of the problem.? After reading your response this afternoon I got my (shorter)
straight edge out to double check, but got interrupted so will get back to this hopefully tomorrow.??
Cheers, David
|
Eric,
never thought of running material thru WBS to remove dust. should only take a light pass. i like tersa on mine for quick change. i am sure those pesky little hard to rotate guys do shine in tough grain material.
imran?
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On Nov 28, 2020, at 8:27 PM, Eric Janson <jej@...> wrote: ? Imran, I am in your camp - joint near, plane far on my Dual 51 -- 368 of those suckers - errr, cutters -? so replacing them is not only a bit of $ it is also time.? As others have mentioned, what you are running makes a difference. It's a royal pain in the butt, but when I'm running reconditioned / rescued material, I always put it through the sander first to remove dust and those tiny silicates which are not visible, but boy, do they wear down the cutters. Some yards are delivering fairly dusty materials and they also get this treatment. SInce instituting this practice I have got very long life out of my cutters. My Swedish - German ancestors are again at peace in their thrifty graves ;-) Cheers Eric
I keep a tight tolerance on the pressure bar on my Powermatic planer.? I try to have the pressure bar just .001” higher than the cutters.? This really
helps that small 12” PM100 with snipe but if the cutters get at all dull it has trouble feeding.? I have a Byrd head in mine and the carbide cutters when many years before the first rotation.? But in the past 6 months I’ve run a bunch of reclaimed oak beams
through the jointer, planer, and bandsaw and all three are dull.? I’ve rotated the cutters on the jointer and I’ve send the bandsaw blade off to be resharpened.?
?
Bottom line, in my experience what you are running makes a huge difference.
?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of david.r.milson@...
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 1:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] ideas for changing the carbide inserts on silent power cutterblock #spiralcutterhead
?
Thanks Patrick
Initially, I could not imagine I'd put through anywhere near 5000 board feet.? Then, I wondered what this means!? If I prepare a face and edge on a 10' board across the jointer say passing it 4 times over the cutter head, is this 10 board feet or 40 board feet??
Then lifting the lid and doing the parallel faces in the thicknesser could make it a total of 60+ board feet (for the 10' board)?? If it is 40 or 60 then 5000 board does not seem unreasonable for the machine and I would have easily done 5000' in 12 months.?
Also, some timber recently was extremely dusty (which I assue was a lot of dirt build up, which I had brushed as best I could but can't have been good for the edge of the carbide.?
Both the infeed and outfeed tables appeared to?be parallel (co-planar) when checked with a level longer than the 2 tables (used as a straight edge) a week ago when I became aware of the problem.? After reading your response this afternoon I got my (shorter)
straight edge out to double check, but got interrupted so will get back to this hopefully tomorrow.??
Cheers, David
|
imran
Jason Holtz
Joe Jensen