|
Lining up my wish list for the AD951 and KF 700, with the help of forum members I am clear on the overheadhead guard for the KF, and saving $750 (much needed) by not getting the integrated adjustable rollers in the bed of the AD951. Now I am looking at the?segmented pressure beam for the 951. Anyone have experienced advice about it? Many thanks!
|
Most planers over 20" have the segmented chipbreaker ( pressure beam ).? When I buy used, those parts and springs are the first to have problems but if buying new, not an issue.? I'm to the age where chasing multiple pieces back and forth doesn't appeal to
me and I don't do enough volume that I care about the flexibility of that option.? If it comes to money, I'd take the second outfeed roller or a Tersa or spiral head.? I'm a Tersa first, spiral second guy but I'm in the minority.? I'd also put the extra cash
into a bigger dust collector.? Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Lining up my wish list for the AD951 and KF 700, with the help of forum members I am clear on the overheadhead guard for the KF, and saving $750 (much needed) by not getting the integrated adjustable rollers in the bed of the AD951. Now I am looking at
the?segmented pressure beam for the 951. Anyone have experienced advice about it? Many thanks!
|
Are the issues people reported here with noise due to not having the segmented pressure bar? Another advantage of segmented pressure bar (per Felder) is planing of thinner stock.
Another option discussed here is the infeed roller with mixed feedback. The rubber coated one requires maintenance but the metal one may leave marks when taking light passes.
My Dual51 has segmented pressure bar, metal infeed roller and tersa head. I love tersa head, have no complains with metal infeed roller. If there are any marks they do not require any additional high grit sanding than I normally do. It is mentioned here that re-coating rubber infeed roller is, IIRC, $200-$300.
Imran On Feb 19, 2020, at 9:43 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Most planers over 20" have the segmented chipbreaker ( pressure beam ).? When I buy used, those parts and springs are the first to have problems but if buying new, not an issue.? I'm to the age where chasing multiple pieces back and forth doesn't appeal to
me and I don't do enough volume that I care about the flexibility of that option.? If it comes to money, I'd take the second outfeed roller or a Tersa or spiral head.? I'm a Tersa first, spiral second guy but I'm in the minority.? I'd also put the extra cash
into a bigger dust collector.? Dave
Lining up my wish list for the AD951 and KF 700, with the help of forum members I am clear on the overheadhead guard for the KF, and saving $750 (much needed) by not getting the integrated adjustable rollers in the bed of the AD951. Now I am looking at
the?segmented pressure beam for the 951. Anyone have experienced advice about it? Many thanks!
|
Imran, yes to the noise but I am also under the impression from Felder that the sheet steel pressure shoe (Felder calls it that) had the wrong bend angle on that part causing the harmonics ( like to say squealing pig noise). Will find out next week with my replacement machine which will be newer build by a year. The noise can be minimized by waxing which I never did and I found another hack which was to put a piece of duct tape on it which helped a lot.
I personally would go for the segmented pressure bar and maybe the rubber rollers hear they are great for delicate work there was a recent (maybe 2 months?) about this,
Actually edit, not so sure about the advantage of the segmented pressure bar, I keep mixing it up in my head with the segmented infeed roller that my scm had which was great for small diff in size...
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 19, 2020, at 12:25 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Are the issues people reported here with noise due to not having the segmented pressure bar? Another advantage of segmented pressure bar (per Felder) is planing of thinner stock.
Another option discussed here is the infeed roller with mixed feedback. The rubber coated one requires maintenance but the metal one may leave marks when taking light passes.
My Dual51 has segmented pressure bar, metal infeed roller and tersa head. I love tersa head, have no complains with metal infeed roller. If there are any marks they do not require any additional high grit sanding than I normally do. It is mentioned here that re-coating rubber infeed roller is, IIRC, $200-$300.
Imran On Feb 19, 2020, at 9:43 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Most planers over 20" have the segmented chipbreaker ( pressure beam ).? When I buy used, those parts and springs are the first to have problems but if buying new, not an issue.? I'm to the age where chasing multiple pieces back and forth doesn't appeal to
me and I don't do enough volume that I care about the flexibility of that option.? If it comes to money, I'd take the second outfeed roller or a Tersa or spiral head.? I'm a Tersa first, spiral second guy but I'm in the minority.? I'd also put the extra cash
into a bigger dust collector.? Dave
Lining up my wish list for the AD951 and KF 700, with the help of forum members I am clear on the overheadhead guard for the KF, and saving $750 (much needed) by not getting the integrated adjustable rollers in the bed of the AD951. Now I am looking at
the?segmented pressure beam for the 951. Anyone have experienced advice about it? Many thanks!
|
?The only similar option I am aware of is what Felder calls “sectional pressure bar”, shown below:
I thought this is what we are discussing. OP should clarify if he meant something different.
Can someone post what the alternative looks like? I assume it is just a chip breaker.
Imran On Feb 19, 2020, at 4:45 PM, Mk Vt <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? Imran, yes to the noise but I am also under the impression from Felder that the sheet steel pressure shoe (Felder calls it that) had the wrong bend angle on that part causing the harmonics ( like to say squealing pig noise). Will find out next week with my replacement machine which will be newer build by a year. The noise can be minimized by waxing which I never did and I found another hack which was to put a piece of duct tape on it which helped a lot.
I personally would go for the segmented pressure bar and maybe the rubber rollers hear they are great for delicate work there was a recent (maybe 2 months?) about this,
Actually edit, not so sure about the advantage of the segmented pressure bar, I keep mixing it up in my head with the segmented infeed roller that my scm had which was great for small diff in size...
Regards, Mark On Feb 19, 2020, at 12:25 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Are the issues people reported here with noise due to not having the segmented pressure bar? Another advantage of segmented pressure bar (per Felder) is planing of thinner stock.
Another option discussed here is the infeed roller with mixed feedback. The rubber coated one requires maintenance but the metal one may leave marks when taking light passes.
My Dual51 has segmented pressure bar, metal infeed roller and tersa head. I love tersa head, have no complains with metal infeed roller. If there are any marks they do not require any additional high grit sanding than I normally do. It is mentioned here that re-coating rubber infeed roller is, IIRC, $200-$300.
Imran On Feb 19, 2020, at 9:43 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Most planers over 20" have the segmented chipbreaker ( pressure beam ).? When I buy used, those parts and springs are the first to have problems but if buying new, not an issue.? I'm to the age where chasing multiple pieces back and forth doesn't appeal to
me and I don't do enough volume that I care about the flexibility of that option.? If it comes to money, I'd take the second outfeed roller or a Tersa or spiral head.? I'm a Tersa first, spiral second guy but I'm in the minority.? I'd also put the extra cash
into a bigger dust collector.? Dave
Lining up my wish list for the AD951 and KF 700, with the help of forum members I am clear on the overheadhead guard for the KF, and saving $750 (much needed) by not getting the integrated adjustable rollers in the bed of the AD951. Now I am looking at
the?segmented pressure beam for the 951. Anyone have experienced advice about it? Many thanks!
|
Imran,?
That is the only “sectional” type option available on the ad951. The alternative is what Felder calls a pressure shoe which is bent sheet steel.
See side view of my mickey mouse drawing and the pic shown (would be 180deg from shown installed) 
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 19, 2020, at 7:56 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? ?The only similar option I am aware of is what Felder calls “sectional pressure bar”, shown below:
I thought this is what we are discussing. OP should clarify if he meant something different.
Can someone post what the alternative looks like? I assume it is just a chip breaker.
Imran On Feb 19, 2020, at 4:45 PM, Mk Vt <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? Imran, yes to the noise but I am also under the impression from Felder that the sheet steel pressure shoe (Felder calls it that) had the wrong bend angle on that part causing the harmonics ( like to say squealing pig noise). Will find out next week with my replacement machine which will be newer build by a year. The noise can be minimized by waxing which I never did and I found another hack which was to put a piece of duct tape on it which helped a lot.
I personally would go for the segmented pressure bar and maybe the rubber rollers hear they are great for delicate work there was a recent (maybe 2 months?) about this,
Actually edit, not so sure about the advantage of the segmented pressure bar, I keep mixing it up in my head with the segmented infeed roller that my scm had which was great for small diff in size...
Regards, Mark On Feb 19, 2020, at 12:25 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Are the issues people reported here with noise due to not having the segmented pressure bar? Another advantage of segmented pressure bar (per Felder) is planing of thinner stock.
Another option discussed here is the infeed roller with mixed feedback. The rubber coated one requires maintenance but the metal one may leave marks when taking light passes.
My Dual51 has segmented pressure bar, metal infeed roller and tersa head. I love tersa head, have no complains with metal infeed roller. If there are any marks they do not require any additional high grit sanding than I normally do. It is mentioned here that re-coating rubber infeed roller is, IIRC, $200-$300.
Imran On Feb 19, 2020, at 9:43 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Most planers over 20" have the segmented chipbreaker ( pressure beam ).? When I buy used, those parts and springs are the first to have problems but if buying new, not an issue.? I'm to the age where chasing multiple pieces back and forth doesn't appeal to
me and I don't do enough volume that I care about the flexibility of that option.? If it comes to money, I'd take the second outfeed roller or a Tersa or spiral head.? I'm a Tersa first, spiral second guy but I'm in the minority.? I'd also put the extra cash
into a bigger dust collector.? Dave
Lining up my wish list for the AD951 and KF 700, with the help of forum members I am clear on the overheadhead guard for the KF, and saving $750 (much needed) by not getting the integrated adjustable rollers in the bed of the AD951. Now I am looking at
the?segmented pressure beam for the 951. Anyone have experienced advice about it? Many thanks!
|
Isn't what you are showing the anti kickback pawls?
On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 7:56 AM imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ?The only similar option I am aware of is what Felder calls “sectional pressure bar”, shown below:
I thought this is what we are discussing. OP should clarify if he meant something different.
Can someone post what the alternative looks like? I assume it is just a chip breaker.
Imran ?Imran, yes to the noise but I am also under the impression from Felder that the sheet steel pressure shoe (Felder calls it that) had the wrong bend angle on that part causing the harmonics ( like to say squealing pig noise). Will find out next week with my replacement machine which will be newer build by a year. The noise can be minimized by waxing which I never did and I found another hack which was to put a piece of duct tape on it which helped a lot.
I personally would go for the segmented pressure bar and maybe the rubber rollers hear they are great for delicate work there was a recent (maybe 2 months?) about this,
Actually edit, not so sure about the advantage of the segmented pressure bar, I keep mixing it up in my head with the segmented infeed roller that my scm had which was great for small diff in size...
Regards, Mark On Feb 19, 2020, at 12:25 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
? Are the issues people reported here with noise due to not having the segmented pressure bar? Another advantage of segmented pressure bar (per Felder) is planing of thinner stock.
Another option discussed here is the infeed roller with mixed feedback. The rubber coated one requires maintenance but the metal one may leave marks when taking light passes.
My Dual51 has segmented pressure bar, metal infeed roller and tersa head. I love tersa head, have no complains with metal infeed roller. If there are any marks they do not require any additional high grit sanding than I normally do. It is mentioned here that re-coating rubber infeed roller is, IIRC, $200-$300.
Imran On Feb 19, 2020, at 9:43 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Most planers over 20" have the segmented chipbreaker ( pressure beam ).? When I buy used, those parts and springs are the first to have problems but if buying new, not an issue.? I'm to the age where chasing multiple pieces back and forth doesn't appeal to
me and I don't do enough volume that I care about the flexibility of that option.? If it comes to money, I'd take the second outfeed roller or a Tersa or spiral head.? I'm a Tersa first, spiral second guy but I'm in the minority.? I'd also put the extra cash
into a bigger dust collector.? Dave
Lining up my wish list for the AD951 and KF 700, with the help of forum members I am clear on the overheadhead guard for the KF, and saving $750 (much needed) by not getting the integrated adjustable rollers in the bed of the AD951. Now I am looking at
the?segmented pressure beam for the 951. Anyone have experienced advice about it? Many thanks!
|
Thanks Mark. On Feb 19, 2020, at 6:09 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? Imran,?
That is the only “sectional” type option available on the ad951. The alternative is what Felder calls a pressure shoe which is bent sheet steel.
See side view of my mickey mouse drawing and the pic shown (would be 180deg from shown installed) <image0.jpeg>
Regards, Mark On Feb 19, 2020, at 7:56 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? ?The only similar option I am aware of is what Felder calls “sectional pressure bar”, shown below:
<1559-gliederdruckbalken~-~540w@...>
I thought this is what we are discussing. OP should clarify if he meant something different.
Can someone post what the alternative looks like? I assume it is just a chip breaker.
Imran On Feb 19, 2020, at 4:45 PM, Mk Vt <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? Imran, yes to the noise but I am also under the impression from Felder that the sheet steel pressure shoe (Felder calls it that) had the wrong bend angle on that part causing the harmonics ( like to say squealing pig noise). Will find out next week with my replacement machine which will be newer build by a year. The noise can be minimized by waxing which I never did and I found another hack which was to put a piece of duct tape on it which helped a lot.
I personally would go for the segmented pressure bar and maybe the rubber rollers hear they are great for delicate work there was a recent (maybe 2 months?) about this,
Actually edit, not so sure about the advantage of the segmented pressure bar, I keep mixing it up in my head with the segmented infeed roller that my scm had which was great for small diff in size...
Regards, Mark On Feb 19, 2020, at 12:25 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Are the issues people reported here with noise due to not having the segmented pressure bar? Another advantage of segmented pressure bar (per Felder) is planing of thinner stock.
Another option discussed here is the infeed roller with mixed feedback. The rubber coated one requires maintenance but the metal one may leave marks when taking light passes.
My Dual51 has segmented pressure bar, metal infeed roller and tersa head. I love tersa head, have no complains with metal infeed roller. If there are any marks they do not require any additional high grit sanding than I normally do. It is mentioned here that re-coating rubber infeed roller is, IIRC, $200-$300.
Imran On Feb 19, 2020, at 9:43 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Most planers over 20" have the segmented chipbreaker ( pressure beam ).? When I buy used, those parts and springs are the first to have problems but if buying new, not an issue.? I'm to the age where chasing multiple pieces back and forth doesn't appeal to
me and I don't do enough volume that I care about the flexibility of that option.? If it comes to money, I'd take the second outfeed roller or a Tersa or spiral head.? I'm a Tersa first, spiral second guy but I'm in the minority.? I'd also put the extra cash
into a bigger dust collector.? Dave
Lining up my wish list for the AD951 and KF 700, with the help of forum members I am clear on the overheadhead guard for the KF, and saving $750 (much needed) by not getting the integrated adjustable rollers in the bed of the AD951. Now I am looking at
the?segmented pressure beam for the 951. Anyone have experienced advice about it? Many thanks!
|
Let’s see if I can add some clarity here. ? I have a Dual 51 which is basically an AD951 with a different fence. ?I have the “sectional pressure bar” and rubber infeed & outfeed rollers. ? Here’s a photo from the top - planer infeed end is at the top:
All those grey lever gizmos are spring loaded and they individually push down on the material coming into the planer, and each is individually adjustable in terms of spring tension. ? They all pivot on a common shaft. ? The advantage of this setup, compared to the non-segmented system is that material of different thicknesses can be fed simultaneously (within a range of about 8mm variation). ?I find this particularly useful when bringing roughly ripped stiles and rails all to a common width, feeding them on edge next to each other in rapid succession. ? Without this segmented pressure system, a single sheet of spring steel is pressing down on the material being fed and the tallest portion or piece of that material will force the entire plate upward, leaving some areas or pieces without downward pressure. ??
In the following photo you can see in Blue where the the individual segments add downward pressure to the incoming material just ahead of the cutterblock. They also act as a chip breaker.
The following photo is the underside of the planer infeed end. ? The segmented pressure elements are outlined in Blue again here, but the anti-kickback pawls are outlined in Red. ? A planer with the standard (non-segmented) pressure bar has the same series of dangling anti-kickback elements.
Here is the parts diagram. ? The Green #17 is the standard single-plate pressure bar. ? The Red #21’s are the anti-kickback pawls. ?The blue #31 and associated components is the optional “sectional pressure bar”.
Here is the parts description. ?According to Google Translate on my iPhone (what a marvel of technology), #17 is “Smooth preassembled pressure beam”. ? #21 is “Antikickback device”, and #31 is “Welded segment block”.
David Best
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Show quoted text
Isn't what you are showing the anti kickback pawls? On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 7:56 AM imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ?The only similar option I am aware of is what Felder calls “sectional pressure bar”, shown below:
I thought this is what we are discussing. OP should clarify if he meant something different.
Can someone post what the alternative looks like? I assume it is just a chip breaker.
Imran ?Imran, yes to the noise but I am also under the impression from Felder that the sheet steel pressure shoe (Felder calls it that) had the wrong bend angle on that part causing the harmonics ( like to say squealing pig noise). Will find out next week with my replacement machine which will be newer build by a year. The noise can be minimized by waxing which I never did and I found another hack which was to put a piece of duct tape on it which helped a lot.
I personally would go for the segmented pressure bar and maybe the rubber rollers hear they are great for delicate work there was a recent (maybe 2 months?) about this,
Actually edit, not so sure about the advantage of the segmented pressure bar, I keep mixing it up in my head with the segmented infeed roller that my scm had which was great for small diff in size...
Regards, Mark On Feb 19, 2020, at 12:25 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
? Are the issues people reported here with noise due to not having the segmented pressure bar? Another advantage of segmented pressure bar (per Felder) is planing of thinner stock.
Another option discussed here is the infeed roller with mixed feedback. The rubber coated one requires maintenance but the metal one may leave marks when taking light passes.
My Dual51 has segmented pressure bar, metal infeed roller and tersa head. I love tersa head, have no complains with metal infeed roller. If there are any marks they do not require any additional high grit sanding than I normally do. It is mentioned here that re-coating rubber infeed roller is, IIRC, $200-$300.
Imran On Feb 19, 2020, at 9:43 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Most planers over 20" have the segmented chipbreaker ( pressure beam ).? When I buy used, those parts and springs are the first to have problems but if buying new, not an issue.? I'm to the age where chasing multiple pieces back and forth doesn't appeal to
me and I don't do enough volume that I care about the flexibility of that option.? If it comes to money, I'd take the second outfeed roller or a Tersa or spiral head.? I'm a Tersa first, spiral second guy but I'm in the minority.? I'd also put the extra cash
into a bigger dust collector.? Dave
Lining up my wish list for the AD951 and KF 700, with the help of forum members I am clear on the overheadhead guard for the KF, and saving $750 (much needed) by not getting the integrated adjustable rollers in the bed of the AD951. Now I am looking at
the?segmented pressure beam for the 951. Anyone have experienced advice about it? Many thanks!
--
|
David,
Thanks for the clarity.
Imran? On Feb 19, 2020, at 8:17 PM, "david@..." <david@...> wrote:
? Let’s see if I can add some clarity here. ? I have a Dual 51 which is basically an AD951 with a different fence. ?I have the “sectional pressure bar” and rubber infeed & outfeed rollers. ? Here’s a photo from the top - planer infeed end is at the top:
All those grey lever gizmos are spring loaded and they individually push down on the material coming into the planer, and each is individually adjustable in terms of spring tension. ? They all pivot on a common shaft. ? The advantage of this setup, compared to the non-segmented system is that material of different thicknesses can be fed simultaneously (within a range of about 8mm variation). ?I find this particularly useful when bringing roughly ripped stiles and rails all to a common width, feeding them on edge next to each other in rapid succession. ? Without this segmented pressure system, a single sheet of spring steel is pressing down on the material being fed and the tallest portion or piece of that material will force the entire plate upward, leaving some areas or pieces without downward pressure. ??
In the following photo you can see in Blue where the the individual segments add downward pressure to the incoming material just ahead of the cutterblock. They also act as a chip breaker.
The following photo is the underside of the planer infeed end. ? The segmented pressure elements are outlined in Blue again here, but the anti-kickback pawls are outlined in Red. ? A planer with the standard (non-segmented) pressure bar has the same series of dangling anti-kickback elements.
Here is the parts diagram. ? The Green #17 is the standard single-plate pressure bar. ? The Red #21’s are the anti-kickback pawls. ?The blue #31 and associated components is the optional “sectional pressure bar”.
Here is the parts description. ?According to Google Translate on my iPhone (what a marvel of technology), #17 is “Smooth preassembled pressure beam”. ? #21 is “Antikickback device”, and #31 is “Welded segment block”.
David Best
Isn't what you are showing the anti kickback pawls? On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 7:56 AM imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ?The only similar option I am aware of is what Felder calls “sectional pressure bar”, shown below:
<1559-gliederdruckbalken~-~540w@...>
I thought this is what we are discussing. OP should clarify if he meant something different.
Can someone post what the alternative looks like? I assume it is just a chip breaker.
Imran ?Imran, yes to the noise but I am also under the impression from Felder that the sheet steel pressure shoe (Felder calls it that) had the wrong bend angle on that part causing the harmonics ( like to say squealing pig noise). Will find out next week with my replacement machine which will be newer build by a year. The noise can be minimized by waxing which I never did and I found another hack which was to put a piece of duct tape on it which helped a lot.
I personally would go for the segmented pressure bar and maybe the rubber rollers hear they are great for delicate work there was a recent (maybe 2 months?) about this,
Actually edit, not so sure about the advantage of the segmented pressure bar, I keep mixing it up in my head with the segmented infeed roller that my scm had which was great for small diff in size...
Regards, Mark On Feb 19, 2020, at 12:25 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
? Are the issues people reported here with noise due to not having the segmented pressure bar? Another advantage of segmented pressure bar (per Felder) is planing of thinner stock.
Another option discussed here is the infeed roller with mixed feedback. The rubber coated one requires maintenance but the metal one may leave marks when taking light passes.
My Dual51 has segmented pressure bar, metal infeed roller and tersa head. I love tersa head, have no complains with metal infeed roller. If there are any marks they do not require any additional high grit sanding than I normally do. It is mentioned here that re-coating rubber infeed roller is, IIRC, $200-$300.
Imran On Feb 19, 2020, at 9:43 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Most planers over 20" have the segmented chipbreaker ( pressure beam ).? When I buy used, those parts and springs are the first to have problems but if buying new, not an issue.? I'm to the age where chasing multiple pieces back and forth doesn't appeal to
me and I don't do enough volume that I care about the flexibility of that option.? If it comes to money, I'd take the second outfeed roller or a Tersa or spiral head.? I'm a Tersa first, spiral second guy but I'm in the minority.? I'd also put the extra cash
into a bigger dust collector.? Dave
Lining up my wish list for the AD951 and KF 700, with the help of forum members I am clear on the overheadhead guard for the KF, and saving $750 (much needed) by not getting the integrated adjustable rollers in the bed of the AD951. Now I am looking at
the?segmented pressure beam for the 951. Anyone have experienced advice about it? Many thanks!
--
|
As always David a great explanation.?
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Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: david@... Date: 2020-02-19 10:17 a.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [FOG] segmented pressure beam for AD 951?
Let’s see if I can add some clarity here. ? I have a Dual 51 which is basically an AD951 with a different fence. ?I have the “sectional pressure bar” and rubber infeed & outfeed rollers. ? Here’s a photo from the top - planer infeed end is at the top:
All those grey lever gizmos are spring loaded and they individually push down on the material coming into the planer, and each is individually adjustable in terms of spring tension. ? They all pivot on a common shaft. ? The advantage of this setup, compared to the non-segmented system is that material of different thicknesses can be fed simultaneously (within a range of about 8mm variation). ?I find this particularly useful when bringing roughly ripped stiles and rails all to a common width, feeding them on edge next to each other in rapid succession. ? Without this segmented pressure system, a single sheet of spring steel is pressing down on the material being fed and the tallest portion or piece of that material will force the entire plate upward, leaving some areas or pieces without downward pressure. ??
In the following photo you can see in Blue where the the individual segments add downward pressure to the incoming material just ahead of the cutterblock. They also act as a chip breaker.
The following photo is the underside of the planer infeed end. ? The segmented pressure elements are outlined in Blue again here, but the anti-kickback pawls are outlined in Red. ? A planer with the standard (non-segmented) pressure bar has the same series of dangling anti-kickback elements.
Here is the parts diagram. ? The Green #17 is the standard single-plate pressure bar. ? The Red #21’s are the anti-kickback pawls. ?The blue #31 and associated components is the optional “sectional pressure bar”.
Here is the parts description. ?According to Google Translate on my iPhone (what a marvel of technology), #17 is “Smooth preassembled pressure beam”. ? #21 is “Antikickback device”, and #31 is “Welded segment block”.
David Best
Isn't what you are showing the anti kickback pawls? On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 7:56 AM imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ?The only similar option I am aware of is what Felder calls “sectional pressure bar”, shown below:
I thought this is what we are discussing. OP should clarify if he meant something different.
Can someone post what the alternative looks like? I assume it is just a chip breaker.
Imran ?Imran, yes to the noise but I am also under the impression from Felder that the sheet steel pressure shoe (Felder calls it that) had the wrong bend angle on that part causing the harmonics ( like to say squealing pig noise). Will find out next week with my replacement machine which will be newer build by a year. The noise can be minimized by waxing which I never did and I found another hack which was to put a piece of duct tape on it which helped a lot.
I personally would go for the segmented pressure bar and maybe the rubber rollers hear they are great for delicate work there was a recent (maybe 2 months?) about this,
Actually edit, not so sure about the advantage of the segmented pressure bar, I keep mixing it up in my head with the segmented infeed roller that my scm had which was great for small diff in size...
Regards, Mark On Feb 19, 2020, at 12:25 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
? Are the issues people reported here with noise due to not having the segmented pressure bar? Another advantage of segmented pressure bar (per Felder) is planing of thinner stock.
Another option discussed here is the infeed roller with mixed feedback. The rubber coated one requires maintenance but the metal one may leave marks when taking light passes.
My Dual51 has segmented pressure bar, metal infeed roller and tersa head. I love tersa head, have no complains with metal infeed roller. If there are any marks they do not require any additional high grit sanding than I normally do. It is mentioned here that re-coating rubber infeed roller is, IIRC, $200-$300.
Imran On Feb 19, 2020, at 9:43 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Most planers over 20" have the segmented chipbreaker ( pressure beam ).? When I buy used, those parts and springs are the first to have problems but if buying new, not an issue.? I'm to the age where chasing multiple pieces back and forth doesn't appeal to
me and I don't do enough volume that I care about the flexibility of that option.? If it comes to money, I'd take the second outfeed roller or a Tersa or spiral head.? I'm a Tersa first, spiral second guy but I'm in the minority.? I'd also put the extra cash
into a bigger dust collector.? Dave
Lining up my wish list for the AD951 and KF 700, with the help of forum members I am clear on the overheadhead guard for the KF, and saving $750 (much needed) by not getting the integrated adjustable rollers in the bed of the AD951. Now I am looking at
the?segmented pressure beam for the 951. Anyone have experienced advice about it? Many thanks!
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Thanks for that. Interesting that the description in the parts diagram for #17 is “Smooth preassembled pressure beam”. But yet whenever I discuss that part with sales or service they refer to it as a “Pressure Shoe”. I know that sometimes occurs in our manuals for different countries where even though it is named one thing here is is discussed with a different name due to cultural and technical naming convention of that country. Regards, Mark
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On Feb 19, 2020, at 10:17 AM, "david@..." <david@...> wrote:
? Let’s see if I can add some clarity here. ? I have a Dual 51 which is basically an AD951 with a different fence. ?I have the “sectional pressure bar” and rubber infeed & outfeed rollers. ? Here’s a photo from the top - planer infeed end is at the top:
All those grey lever gizmos are spring loaded and they individually push down on the material coming into the planer, and each is individually adjustable in terms of spring tension. ? They all pivot on a common shaft. ? The advantage of this setup, compared to the non-segmented system is that material of different thicknesses can be fed simultaneously (within a range of about 8mm variation). ?I find this particularly useful when bringing roughly ripped stiles and rails all to a common width, feeding them on edge next to each other in rapid succession. ? Without this segmented pressure system, a single sheet of spring steel is pressing down on the material being fed and the tallest portion or piece of that material will force the entire plate upward, leaving some areas or pieces without downward pressure. ??
In the following photo you can see in Blue where the the individual segments add downward pressure to the incoming material just ahead of the cutterblock. They also act as a chip breaker.
The following photo is the underside of the planer infeed end. ? The segmented pressure elements are outlined in Blue again here, but the anti-kickback pawls are outlined in Red. ? A planer with the standard (non-segmented) pressure bar has the same series of dangling anti-kickback elements.
Here is the parts diagram. ? The Green #17 is the standard single-plate pressure bar. ? The Red #21’s are the anti-kickback pawls. ?The blue #31 and associated components is the optional “sectional pressure bar”.
Here is the parts description. ?According to Google Translate on my iPhone (what a marvel of technology), #17 is “Smooth preassembled pressure beam”. ? #21 is “Antikickback device”, and #31 is “Welded segment block”.
David Best
Isn't what you are showing the anti kickback pawls? On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 7:56 AM imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ?The only similar option I am aware of is what Felder calls “sectional pressure bar”, shown below:
I thought this is what we are discussing. OP should clarify if he meant something different.
Can someone post what the alternative looks like? I assume it is just a chip breaker.
Imran ?Imran, yes to the noise but I am also under the impression from Felder that the sheet steel pressure shoe (Felder calls it that) had the wrong bend angle on that part causing the harmonics ( like to say squealing pig noise). Will find out next week with my replacement machine which will be newer build by a year. The noise can be minimized by waxing which I never did and I found another hack which was to put a piece of duct tape on it which helped a lot.
I personally would go for the segmented pressure bar and maybe the rubber rollers hear they are great for delicate work there was a recent (maybe 2 months?) about this,
Actually edit, not so sure about the advantage of the segmented pressure bar, I keep mixing it up in my head with the segmented infeed roller that my scm had which was great for small diff in size...
Regards, Mark On Feb 19, 2020, at 12:25 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
? Are the issues people reported here with noise due to not having the segmented pressure bar? Another advantage of segmented pressure bar (per Felder) is planing of thinner stock.
Another option discussed here is the infeed roller with mixed feedback. The rubber coated one requires maintenance but the metal one may leave marks when taking light passes.
My Dual51 has segmented pressure bar, metal infeed roller and tersa head. I love tersa head, have no complains with metal infeed roller. If there are any marks they do not require any additional high grit sanding than I normally do. It is mentioned here that re-coating rubber infeed roller is, IIRC, $200-$300.
Imran On Feb 19, 2020, at 9:43 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Most planers over 20" have the segmented chipbreaker ( pressure beam ).? When I buy used, those parts and springs are the first to have problems but if buying new, not an issue.? I'm to the age where chasing multiple pieces back and forth doesn't appeal to
me and I don't do enough volume that I care about the flexibility of that option.? If it comes to money, I'd take the second outfeed roller or a Tersa or spiral head.? I'm a Tersa first, spiral second guy but I'm in the minority.? I'd also put the extra cash
into a bigger dust collector.? Dave
Lining up my wish list for the AD951 and KF 700, with the help of forum members I am clear on the overheadhead guard for the KF, and saving $750 (much needed) by not getting the integrated adjustable rollers in the bed of the AD951. Now I am looking at
the?segmented pressure beam for the 951. Anyone have experienced advice about it? Many thanks!
--
|
Excellent explanation and great point about using the segmented infeed to edge plane.? The caveat there relates to the width of the segments.? My old planers used 2" segments which IMO opinion negated that benefit.? Segments < 1.5" are better assuming .75"
stock.? The pressure bar design also is a factor in why I'm not a bed roller guy.? Bed rollers create pivot points as the stock enters and exits the head.? The pressure of the infeed rollers and associated springs should force the stock back down towards the
bed to eliminate somewhat the leading edge snipe issue ( IMO opinion the difficult one to fix ).? The pressure bar on the outfeed serves the same purpose.? Because it is located behind the head but before the bed roller, its job is too hold the stock down,
particularly when the trailing edge exits the first bed roller and wants to lift up with the rotation of the knives.? The old cast iron planers used a cast iron bar that could weigh 75+ lbs.? It was either spring loaded or set on a pivot so it could lift up
but was heavy enough not to allow most stock to lift on the trailing end.? The modern spring steel lighter? bars can be less effective so eliminating the trailing snipe which in my world means the bed rollers need to be kept almost at table level.? The trailing
snipe issue can be worse with the second outfeed roller depending on if it is before or after the second bed roller.? I keep lighter pressure on the second so the main force is before the second bed roller.
I'm not criticizing newer planers, just adding a reason why I usually run with rollers out of the way for finish planing.?? My chipbreaker term comes from the old manuals I learned from so that can be misleading to others.? What is interesting is how similar
planers from 100 years ago are to those made today except for the change in materials to control costs and the advent of the spiral head that reduces the need for the chipbreaker near the cutting arc of the head.? Dave
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Show quoted text
Let’s see if I can add some clarity here. ? I have a Dual 51 which is basically an AD951 with a different fence. ?I have the “sectional pressure bar” and rubber infeed & outfeed rollers. ? Here’s a photo from the top
- planer infeed end is at the top:
All those grey lever gizmos are spring loaded and they individually push down on the material coming into the planer, and each is individually adjustable in terms of spring tension. ? They all pivot on a common shaft. ? The advantage of this setup,
compared to the non-segmented system is that material of different thicknesses can be fed simultaneously (within a range of about 8mm variation). ?I find this particularly useful when bringing roughly ripped stiles and rails all to a common width, feeding
them on edge next to each other in rapid succession. ? Without this segmented pressure system, a single sheet of spring steel is pressing down on the material being fed and the tallest portion or piece of that material will force the entire plate upward, leaving
some areas or pieces without downward pressure. ??
In the following photo you can see in Blue where the the individual segments add downward pressure to the incoming material just ahead of the cutterblock. They also act as a chip breaker.
The following photo is the underside of the planer infeed end. ? The segmented pressure elements are outlined in Blue again here, but the anti-kickback pawls are outlined in Red. ? A planer with the standard (non-segmented) pressure bar has the
same series of dangling anti-kickback elements.
Here is the parts diagram. ? The Green #17 is the standard single-plate pressure bar. ? The Red #21’s are the anti-kickback pawls. ?The blue #31 and associated components is the optional “sectional pressure bar”.
Here is the parts description. ?According to Google Translate on my iPhone (what a marvel of technology), #17 is “Smooth preassembled pressure beam”. ? #21 is “Antikickback device”, and #31 is “Welded segment block”.
David Best
Isn't what you are showing the anti kickback pawls?
On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 7:56 AM imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote:
?The only similar option I am aware of is what Felder calls “sectional pressure bar”, shown below:
I thought this is what we are discussing. OP should clarify if he meant something different.
Can someone post what the alternative looks like? I assume it is just a chip breaker.
Imran
?Imran, yes to the noise but I am also under the impression from Felder that the sheet steel pressure shoe (Felder calls it that) had the wrong bend angle on that part causing the harmonics ( like to say squealing pig noise). Will find
out next week with my replacement machine which will be newer build by a year. The noise can be minimized by waxing which I never did and I found another hack which was to put a piece of duct tape on it which helped a lot.
I personally would go for the segmented pressure bar and maybe the rubber rollers hear they are great for delicate work there was a recent (maybe 2 months?) about this,
Actually edit, not so sure about the advantage of the segmented pressure bar, I keep mixing it up in my head with the segmented infeed roller that my scm had which was great for small diff in size...
Regards, Mark
On Feb 19, 2020, at 12:25 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
?
Are the issues people reported here with noise due to not having the segmented pressure bar? Another advantage of segmented pressure bar (per Felder) is planing of thinner stock.
Another option discussed here is the infeed roller with mixed feedback. The rubber coated one requires maintenance but the metal one may leave marks when taking light passes.
My Dual51 has segmented pressure bar, metal infeed roller and tersa head. I love tersa head, have no complains with metal infeed roller. If there are any marks they do not require any additional high grit sanding than I normally do.
It is mentioned here that re-coating rubber infeed roller is, IIRC, $200-$300.
Imran
On Feb 19, 2020, at 9:43 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Most planers over 20" have the segmented chipbreaker ( pressure beam ).? When I buy used, those parts and springs are the first to have problems but if buying new, not an issue.?
I'm to the age where chasing multiple pieces back and forth doesn't appeal to me and I don't do enough volume that I care about the flexibility of that option.? If it comes to money, I'd take the second outfeed roller or a Tersa or spiral head.? I'm a Tersa
first, spiral second guy but I'm in the minority.? I'd also put the extra cash into a bigger dust collector.? Dave
Lining up my wish list for the AD951 and KF 700, with the help of forum members I am clear on the overheadhead guard for the KF, and saving $750 (much needed) by not getting the integrated adjustable rollers in the bed of the AD951. Now I am looking
at the?segmented pressure beam for the 951. Anyone have experienced advice about it? Many thanks!
--
|
I will chime in ..?
I have a Martin T-54 Planer which is a 2016.? It has a segmented infeed roller and 2 x Rubber Outfeed rollers.? ?In past planers,? I would have issues with sticking .. where the lumber would stop moving while the planer was running ..? ?That has never happened with?this new planer.? ?It also has no table rollers.??
The segmented infeed roller is only really useful to me when planing say 3 or 4 boards at a time ..? I don't really need a segmented infeed roller,? it seems like its geared for production.? ?What I do have is variable speed and I love it ..?
Rick?
On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 11:30 AM David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
Excellent explanation and great point about using the segmented infeed to edge plane.? The caveat there relates to the width of the segments.? My old planers used 2" segments which IMO opinion negated that benefit.? Segments < 1.5" are better assuming .75"
stock.? The pressure bar design also is a factor in why I'm not a bed roller guy.? Bed rollers create pivot points as the stock enters and exits the head.? The pressure of the infeed rollers and associated springs should force the stock back down towards the
bed to eliminate somewhat the leading edge snipe issue ( IMO opinion the difficult one to fix ).? The pressure bar on the outfeed serves the same purpose.? Because it is located behind the head but before the bed roller, its job is too hold the stock down,
particularly when the trailing edge exits the first bed roller and wants to lift up with the rotation of the knives.? The old cast iron planers used a cast iron bar that could weigh 75+ lbs.? It was either spring loaded or set on a pivot so it could lift up
but was heavy enough not to allow most stock to lift on the trailing end.? The modern spring steel lighter? bars can be less effective so eliminating the trailing snipe which in my world means the bed rollers need to be kept almost at table level.? The trailing
snipe issue can be worse with the second outfeed roller depending on if it is before or after the second bed roller.? I keep lighter pressure on the second so the main force is before the second bed roller.
I'm not criticizing newer planers, just adding a reason why I usually run with rollers out of the way for finish planing.?? My chipbreaker term comes from the old manuals I learned from so that can be misleading to others.? What is interesting is how similar
planers from 100 years ago are to those made today except for the change in materials to control costs and the advent of the spiral head that reduces the need for the chipbreaker near the cutting arc of the head.? Dave
Let’s see if I can add some clarity here. ? I have a Dual 51 which is basically an AD951 with a different fence.? I have the “sectional pressure bar” and rubber infeed & outfeed rollers. ? Here’s a photo from the top
- planer infeed end is at the top:
All those grey lever gizmos are spring loaded and they individually push down on the material coming into the planer, and each is individually adjustable in terms of spring tension. ? They all pivot on a common shaft. ? The advantage of this setup,
compared to the non-segmented system is that material of different thicknesses can be fed simultaneously (within a range of about 8mm variation).? I find this particularly useful when bringing roughly ripped stiles and rails all to a common width, feeding
them on edge next to each other in rapid succession. ? Without this segmented pressure system, a single sheet of spring steel is pressing down on the material being fed and the tallest portion or piece of that material will force the entire plate upward, leaving
some areas or pieces without downward pressure. ??
In the following photo you can see in Blue where the the individual segments add downward pressure to the incoming material just ahead of the cutterblock. They also act as a chip breaker.
The following photo is the underside of the planer infeed end. ? The segmented pressure elements are outlined in Blue again here, but the anti-kickback pawls are outlined in Red. ? A planer with the standard (non-segmented) pressure bar has the
same series of dangling anti-kickback elements.
Here is the parts diagram. ? The Green #17 is the standard single-plate pressure bar. ? The Red #21’s are the anti-kickback pawls.? The blue #31 and associated components is the optional “sectional pressure bar”.
Here is the parts description.? According to Google Translate on my iPhone (what a marvel of technology), #17 is “Smooth preassembled pressure beam”. ? #21 is “Antikickback device”, and #31 is “Welded segment block”.
David Best
Isn't what you are showing the anti kickback pawls?
On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 7:56 AM imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote:
?The only similar option I am aware of is what Felder calls “sectional pressure bar”, shown below:
I thought this is what we are discussing. OP should clarify if he meant something different.
Can someone post what the alternative looks like? I assume it is just a chip breaker.
Imran
?Imran, yes to the noise but I am also under the impression from Felder that the sheet steel pressure shoe (Felder calls it that) had the wrong bend angle on that part causing the harmonics ( like to say squealing pig noise). Will find
out next week with my replacement machine which will be newer build by a year. The noise can be minimized by waxing which I never did and I found another hack which was to put a piece of duct tape on it which helped a lot.
I personally would go for the segmented pressure bar and maybe the rubber rollers hear they are great for delicate work there was a recent (maybe 2 months?) about this,
Actually edit, not so sure about the advantage of the segmented pressure bar, I keep mixing it up in my head with the segmented infeed roller that my scm had which was great for small diff in size...
Regards, Mark
On Feb 19, 2020, at 12:25 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
?
Are the issues people reported here with noise due to not having the segmented pressure bar? Another advantage of segmented pressure bar (per Felder) is planing of thinner stock.
Another option discussed here is the infeed roller with mixed feedback. The rubber coated one requires maintenance but the metal one may leave marks when taking light passes.
My Dual51 has segmented pressure bar, metal infeed roller and tersa head. I love tersa head, have no complains with metal infeed roller. If there are any marks they do not require any additional high grit sanding than I normally do.
It is mentioned here that re-coating rubber infeed roller is, IIRC, $200-$300.
Imran
On Feb 19, 2020, at 9:43 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Most planers over 20" have the segmented chipbreaker ( pressure beam ).? When I buy used, those parts and springs are the first to have problems but if buying new, not an issue.?
I'm to the age where chasing multiple pieces back and forth doesn't appeal to me and I don't do enough volume that I care about the flexibility of that option.? If it comes to money, I'd take the second outfeed roller or a Tersa or spiral head.? I'm a Tersa
first, spiral second guy but I'm in the minority.? I'd also put the extra cash into a bigger dust collector.? Dave
Lining up my wish list for the AD951 and KF 700, with the help of forum members I am clear on the overheadhead guard for the KF, and saving $750 (much needed) by not getting the integrated adjustable rollers in the bed of the AD951. Now I am looking
at the?segmented pressure beam for the 951. Anyone have experienced advice about it? Many thanks!
--
|
my experience with my AD951 (without segmented pressure beam) is that it will be able to take material that is 1mm difference in them.?
I have a semi production shop, it would be nice to have segmented pressure bar, but is it necessary? will the segmented bar make my shop more efficient hence generate more income? maybe, but most of the time we plan our work so we over come this - more gizmo more thing to break.?
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I am confused by this thread.
I have had a couple planers now, the segmented pressure beam only holds things down. If you want the ability to feed more than one board in any situation, you need the rubber feed roller. That is the only part that moves the wood through the planer. Non-rubber rollers will not feed more than one piece of wood at the same time in most situations.
Sometimes you can just tape several pieces together to force it. Sometimes you can put one piece on the extreme left and another on the extreme right if they are close enough in dimension.?
I've even had uneven boards cock sideways just a bit due to the metal roller only grabbing the left or right of the board. This causes a small snipe in the middle of the pass.
My metal infeed roller is the bane of my existence and as soon as I can get a better machine I'm going to sell it at a terrible loss. For me, it is a feature that can't be understated.
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Justin, a planer with segmented chipbreakers ( PB ) will also have a segmented infeed roller.? Mine are either rubber or corrugated steel but the segments match the width of the chipbreakers and are spring loaded as well.? Dave
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Show quoted text
I am confused by this thread.
I have had a couple planers now, the segmented pressure beam only holds things down. If you want the ability to feed more than one board in any situation, you need the rubber feed roller. That is the only part that moves the wood through the planer. Non-rubber
rollers will not feed more than one piece of wood at the same time in most situations.
Sometimes you can just tape several pieces together to force it. Sometimes you can put one piece on the extreme left and another on the extreme right if they are close enough in dimension.?
I've even had uneven boards cock sideways just a bit due to the metal roller only grabbing the left or right of the board. This causes a small snipe in the middle of the pass.
My metal infeed roller is the bane of my existence and as soon as I can get a better machine I'm going to sell it at a terrible loss. For me, it is a feature that can't be understated.
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I have never seen a segmented corrugated steel feed roller, but I suspect I would like it!
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Here is a pic of segmented infeed roller?
Imran
On Feb 20, 2020, at 8:51 PM, Justin Tocci <justin@...> wrote:
?I have never seen a segmented corrugated steel feed roller, but I suspect I would like it!
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Thats what I had on my scm, miss that planer... Regards, Mark
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On Feb 20, 2020, at 11:23 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Here is a pic of segmented infeed roller?
Imran
On Feb 20, 2020, at 8:51 PM, Justin Tocci <justin@...> wrote:
?I have never seen a segmented corrugated steel feed roller, but I suspect I would like it!
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imran
David P. Best
Albert Lee