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Hi all. Probably simple fo someone who knows more than I do:
Over the years, occasionally I¡¯d turn off the saw with the small red button (not the emergency twist knob ) and then the saw wouldn¡¯t start up again for several tries. I¡¯d blow out or suction out the dust and it¡¯d then start up. Inconclusive whether dust was the cause.
Well this time, that protocol didn¡¯t work. I opened up both switches, checked connections, blew out dust, untwisted the wire (shown in photo). No luck.
The power from the main cutoff is there - hums until warmed up, indicating ready to go.
I opened up the main panel, blew out the minor dust, traced the power and switch wires to various terminals, and made sure those wires were tight.
I pressed all the fuse buttons (I assume they¡¯re fuse buttons) to ¡°reset¡± them. The black ones depress, the red ones do not.
Still no power to the saw.
Anyone know what¡¯s going on here, or what I can do myself?
Alternatively, anyone know a tech in central jersey that could come fix it? I have the wiring diagrams although they¡¯re confusing to me.
Thanks
Mike
General Idea
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Mike,
Please share the wiring diagram. Without that here is a generic response.
If your machine is single phase check the start caps. Make sure all safety limit switches are inactive.
Either way, 1P or 3P machine, Felder normally wires all red switches and safety limit switches in series. All of these are normally closed switches. If all of these are closed (normal situation) then one terminal of the green start switch will have 24VAC - I am assuming 24VAC but it is common in Felder, you can verify the voltage level at the transformer. The green switch is normally open and if it has 24VAC on one terminal and the machine is not starting then either green switch is bad (not electrically closing when pressed) or something else is bad downstream. If you press the green switch, the terminal that did not have voltage before should have same voltage as the other terminal. If this does not happen, green switch is bad order replacement sw per the 3SB3400 PN on the switch.
If you do not have 24VAC on one of the green switch terminals then at least one switch in the series string of "Red Stop Switch + Emergency Stop + Safety limit switch" is open. You will need to track that down.
Hope this helps.
Imran
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] On Behalf Of mike krockford Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 6:08 PM To: [email protected]Subject: [FOG] 1996 K7X switch problem... Hi all. Probably simple fo someone who knows more than I do: Over the years, occasionally I¡¯d turn off the saw with the small red button (not the emergency twist knob ) and then the saw wouldn¡¯t start up again for several tries. I¡¯d blow out or suction out the dust and it¡¯d then start up. Inconclusive whether dust was the cause. Well this time, that protocol didn¡¯t work. I opened up both switches, checked connections, blew out dust, untwisted the wire (shown in photo). No luck. The power from the main cutoff is there - hums until warmed up, indicating ready to go. I opened up the main panel, blew out the minor dust, traced the power and switch wires to various terminals, and made sure those wires were tight. I pressed all the fuse buttons (I assume they¡¯re fuse buttons) to ¡°reset¡± them. The black ones depress, the red ones do not. Still no power to the saw. Anyone know what¡¯s going on here, or what I can do myself? Alternatively, anyone know a tech in central jersey that could come fix it? I have the wiring diagrams although they¡¯re confusing to me. Thanks Mike General Idea
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Nobody has an insight? Seems like a common problem...
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On Jul 27, 2021, at 6:07 PM, mike krockford via groups.io <mcrockford@...> wrote:
Hi all. Probably simple fo someone who knows more than I do:
Over the years, occasionally I¡¯d turn off the saw with the small red button (not the emergency twist knob ) and then the saw wouldn¡¯t start up again for several tries. I¡¯d blow out or suction out the dust and it¡¯d then start up. Inconclusive whether dust was the cause.
Well this time, that protocol didn¡¯t work. I opened up both switches, checked connections, blew out dust, untwisted the wire (shown in photo). No luck.
The power from the main cutoff is there - hums until warmed up, indicating ready to go.
I opened up the main panel, blew out the minor dust, traced the power and switch wires to various terminals, and made sure those wires were tight.
I pressed all the fuse buttons (I assume they¡¯re fuse buttons) to ¡°reset¡± them. The black ones depress, the red ones do not.
Still no power to the saw.
Anyone know what¡¯s going on here, or what I can do myself?
Alternatively, anyone know a tech in central jersey that could come fix it? I have the wiring diagrams although they¡¯re confusing to me.
Thanks
Mike
General Idea
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Mike,
I responded yesterday. If you did not get it in email my response is on FOG site.
Imran
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On Jul 28, 2021, at 5:19 PM, mike krockford <mcrockford@...> wrote: ?Nobody has an insight? Seems like a common problem... On Jul 27, 2021, at 6:07 PM, mike krockford via groups.io <mcrockford@...> wrote:
Hi all. Probably simple fo someone who knows more than I do:
Over the years, occasionally I¡¯d turn off the saw with the small red button (not the emergency twist knob ) and then the saw wouldn¡¯t start up again for several tries. I¡¯d blow out or suction out the dust and it¡¯d then start up. Inconclusive whether dust was the cause.
Well this time, that protocol didn¡¯t work. I opened up both switches, checked connections, blew out dust, untwisted the wire (shown in photo). No luck.
The power from the main cutoff is there - hums until warmed up, indicating ready to go.
I opened up the main panel, blew out the minor dust, traced the power and switch wires to various terminals, and made sure those wires were tight.
I pressed all the fuse buttons (I assume they¡¯re fuse buttons) to ¡°reset¡± them. The black ones depress, the red ones do not.
Still no power to the saw.
Anyone know what¡¯s going on here, or what I can do myself?
Alternatively, anyone know a tech in central jersey that could come fix it? I have the wiring diagrams although they¡¯re confusing to me.
Thanks
Mike
General Idea
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One of the switches in the ¡°stop¡± circuit is open. Could be due to debris or a faulty/failed switch. There are probably four switches, all connected in series such that if any are open, the machine will refuse to start. There are two button switches (Stop and E-Stop) and two microswitches (blade cover and hinged chassis access door). They are powered by 24VAC. Check continuity.
David Best - via mobile phone
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On Jul 28, 2021, at 2:19 PM, mike krockford <mcrockford@...> wrote:
?Nobody has an insight? Seems like a common problem...
On Jul 27, 2021, at 6:07 PM, mike krockford via groups.io <mcrockford@...> wrote:
Hi all. Probably simple fo someone who knows more than I do:
Over the years, occasionally I¡¯d turn off the saw with the small red button (not the emergency twist knob ) and then the saw wouldn¡¯t start up again for several tries. I¡¯d blow out or suction out the dust and it¡¯d then start up. Inconclusive whether dust was the cause.
Well this time, that protocol didn¡¯t work. I opened up both switches, checked connections, blew out dust, untwisted the wire (shown in photo). No luck.
The power from the main cutoff is there - hums until warmed up, indicating ready to go.
I opened up the main panel, blew out the minor dust, traced the power and switch wires to various terminals, and made sure those wires were tight.
I pressed all the fuse buttons (I assume they¡¯re fuse buttons) to ¡°reset¡± them. The black ones depress, the red ones do not.
Still no power to the saw.
Anyone know what¡¯s going on here, or what I can do myself?
Alternatively, anyone know a tech in central jersey that could come fix it? I have the wiring diagrams although they¡¯re confusing to me.
Thanks
Mike
General Idea
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Mike, my trail of frustration parallels yours about a year earlier; no start, suction, compressed air, circle the machine opening and re-closing lock out switches, unplug the machine, wait and cuss. Sometimes it would start; but sometimes it wouldn¡¯t, finally completely dead. My machine is a 1998 BF-741, so 5 functions. The part numbers on the two relays shown in your second picture are exactly the same as mine. You remove the relay by pushing toward the switch on the round claw mechanism right under where Siemens is printed in the middle with a flat screwdriver. Here¡¯s how I solved my problem.
Disassembled switch plate for shaper, exposing the back of the switches, focusing attention on the ¡°ON¡± switch. Using a continuity tester, determined that the Siemens relay had failed (no continuity with switch button depressed or not). Contacted local electrical supplier for Siemens (Consolidated Electric Distributors here in Boise) to get replacement relay. I¡¯ll spare you the calls and trips, but eventually learned Siemens had redesigned the form factor for the relays and switch blocks a couple years earlier. I ordered one of each of the new style, which luckily were available and compatible with the switch. Inserted the new parts, and problem solved. Cost at this point was under $20.
As an aside, I also decided to replace the flat red "OFF" switch for the shaper with a mushroom emergency switch, with because of project urgency got swapped for the one on the J/P because of ordering delay. Now everything is working properly. Cost now about $75.
If you determine you need to replace the Siemens relay, make sure to get the exact match (depending on whether it's an "OFF" or "ON" switch, the relay needs to be NO-NC or NO-NO respectively [normally open/normally closed[). It's printed on the relay.
I'll admit to being electrically challenged, but this was easily completed. Hope your solution is as easy as mine, and this information helps; as they say, YMMV.
Bill Stuebgen
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Hi to all, and thank you for the responses. For some reason, they didn¡¯t appear in my email. Imran told me to check the website. Then I saw everything, and now it¡¯s also in my email.?
I have attached the wiring diagrams. ?I don¡¯t think this was part of a combination machine, though I¡¯m the third owner so I don¡¯t really know. It¡¯s only a saw. Years ago I disabled the brake, I forget why. But my history with occasional nonstarting mirrors Bill¡¯s and so I¡¯ll try what he did on his machine.?
Thanks for the help. Any other help is most welcome.?
Mike?
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On Jul 28, 2021, at 6:01 PM, stuebgen2287@... wrote: Mike, my trail of frustration parallels yours about a year earlier; no start, suction, compressed air, circle the machine opening and re-closing lock out switches, unplug the machine, wait and cuss. Sometimes it would start; but sometimes it wouldn¡¯t, finally completely dead. My machine is a 1998 BF-741, so 5 functions. The part numbers on the two relays shown in your second picture are exactly the same as mine. You remove the relay by pushing toward the switch on the round claw mechanism right under where Siemens is printed in the middle with a flat screwdriver. Here¡¯s how I solved my problem.
Disassembled switch plate for shaper, exposing the back of the switches, focusing attention on the ¡°ON¡± switch. Using a continuity tester, determined that the Siemens relay had failed (no continuity with switch button depressed or not). Contacted local electrical supplier for Siemens (Consolidated Electric Distributors here in Boise) to get replacement relay. I¡¯ll spare you the calls and trips, but eventually learned Siemens had redesigned the form factor for the relays and switch blocks a couple years earlier. I ordered one of each of the new style, which luckily were available and compatible with the switch. Inserted the new parts, and problem solved. Cost at this point was under $20.
As an aside, I also decided to replace the flat red "OFF" switch for the shaper with a mushroom emergency switch, with because of project urgency got swapped for the one on the J/P because of ordering delay. Now everything is working properly. Cost now about $75.
If you determine you need to replace the Siemens relay, make sure to get the exact match (depending on whether it's an "OFF" or "ON" switch, the relay needs to be NO-NC or NO-NO respectively [normally open/normally closed[). It's printed on the relay.
I'll admit to being electrically challenged, but this was easily completed. Hope your solution is as easy as mine, and this information helps; as they say, YMMV.
Bill Stuebgen
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This happen all the time with me.
? But each time it's because I didn't give that little red knob a twist
to release it. I'm sure you checked that.
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On 7/28/21 5:19 PM, mike krockford wrote: Nobody has an insight? Seems like a common problem...
On Jul 27, 2021, at 6:07 PM, mike krockford via groups.io <mcrockford@...> wrote:
Hi all. Probably simple fo someone who knows more than I do:
Over the years, occasionally I¡¯d turn off the saw with the small red button (not the emergency twist knob ) and then the saw wouldn¡¯t start up again for several tries. I¡¯d blow out or suction out the dust and it¡¯d then start up. Inconclusive whether dust was the cause.
Well this time, that protocol didn¡¯t work. I opened up both switches, checked connections, blew out dust, untwisted the wire (shown in photo). No luck.
The power from the main cutoff is there - hums until warmed up, indicating ready to go.
I opened up the main panel, blew out the minor dust, traced the power and switch wires to various terminals, and made sure those wires were tight.
I pressed all the fuse buttons (I assume they¡¯re fuse buttons) to ¡°reset¡± them. The black ones depress, the red ones do not.
Still no power to the saw.
Anyone know what¡¯s going on here, or what I can do myself?
Alternatively, anyone know a tech in central jersey that could come fix it? I have the wiring diagrams although they¡¯re confusing to me.
Thanks
Mike
General Idea
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Yes I did check that. I have to check continuity, as was mentioned. I have to stare at it all for a bit and see the pattern first. Tomorrow I hope.
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On Jul 28, 2021, at 10:02 PM, Cliff Rohrabacher, Esq. <rohrabacher@...> wrote:
This happen all the time with me.
But each time it's because I didn't give that little red knob a twist
to release it. I'm sure you checked that.
On 7/28/21 5:19 PM, mike krockford wrote:
Nobody has an insight? Seems like a common problem...
On Jul 27, 2021, at 6:07 PM, mike krockford via groups.io <mcrockford@...> wrote:
Hi all. Probably simple fo someone who knows more than I do:
Over the years, occasionally I¡¯d turn off the saw with the small red button (not the emergency twist knob ) and then the saw wouldn¡¯t start up again for several tries. I¡¯d blow out or suction out the dust and it¡¯d then start up. Inconclusive whether dust was the cause.
Well this time, that protocol didn¡¯t work. I opened up both switches, checked connections, blew out dust, untwisted the wire (shown in photo). No luck.
The power from the main cutoff is there - hums until warmed up, indicating ready to go.
I opened up the main panel, blew out the minor dust, traced the power and switch wires to various terminals, and made sure those wires were tight.
I pressed all the fuse buttons (I assume they¡¯re fuse buttons) to ¡°reset¡± them. The black ones depress, the red ones do not.
Still no power to the saw.
Anyone know what¡¯s going on here, or what I can do myself?
Alternatively, anyone know a tech in central jersey that could come fix it? I have the wiring diagrams although they¡¯re confusing to me.
Thanks
Mike
General Idea
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imran
David P. Best