ctrl + shift + ? :
Show all keyboard shortcuts
ctrl + g :
Navigate to a group
esc to dismiss
Drawer Sides Best Practices
|
Am embarking on making two large vanities for a master bath remodel and thinking through the process of making the drawer sides (solid poplar or maple) and bottom panel.
?
What are your best practices for cutting the drawer sides and the dado for the bottom panel using a K700S saw (with a dado stack) and F700Z shaper - lets keep the joinery (dovetail, etc.) out of the equation for now ;).?
?
Thank you!
?
Kamal Patel
?
? ??
|
Hi KP,
Maybe not directly related to your question but something to consider. I really like the construction of our 25 yr old drawers. Key feature of interest is that the drawer front is part of the drawer, unlike the common practice of screwing the drawer front to the front of a complete drawer.
In our case, the front of the drawer sides have male sliding dovetails and the single front has the female sliding dovetails from bottom but they only go up as far as needed.
This may be more common than I think but I have not seen it in my limited exposure.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 31, 2025, at 12:00?PM, KRPatel via groups.io <kamalsonal@...> wrote: ? Am embarking on making two large vanities for a master bath remodel and thinking through the process of making the drawer sides (solid poplar or maple) and bottom panel.
?
What are your best practices for cutting the drawer sides and the dado for the bottom panel using a K700S saw (with a dado stack) and F700Z shaper - lets keep the joinery (dovetail, etc.) out of the equation for now ;).?
?
Thank you!
?
Kamal Patel
?
? ??
|
Jamal, I use 5 mm underlayment for drawer bottoms, so the dado is pretty narrow. Two passes with a saw blade is enough, and for half a dozen drawers it is faster than setting up a dado on my saw. I dado all four sides of the box to make sure the bottom is well supported.
?
Imran, that is a furniture-grade drawer box. I suspect many production shops make or buy drawer boxes, and so only the fronts have to match the kitchen style.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
|
What hardware are you using? That may affect the placement of the groove for the bottom.
If you're simply asking how to go about it, this would be my answer. First of all i dress all my material to the required dimensions. I make my drawer boxes up separately to the drawer fronts, so essentially i have a front that is the same width as the sides, and a back that is the width of the sides and front from the top of the groove, to the top of those pieces. (The bottom is slid into the groove after finishing and fixed in place with either screws or staples) I set my rip fence from the inside edge of the dado stack to the width of the back. It's a good idea to use a push stick to keep the material against the fence, and use a push block to hold the material down to the table to ensue you get consistent results with the depth of cut. You could of course do the same operation on the shaper, just referencing off the bottom edge of the sides to the groove. If you want to have the shaper set up to run the grooves, and the saw set up to cut all the pieces, that may be more time efficient, especially if you have lots to do.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Bryce
?
--
https://www.brycecomerwoodworks.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHdrRaAZd_pOa7wwbdNPUEw
|
I like a 8mm groove in the drawer sides for the bottom (run on the shaper) all my drawer bottoms are 1/2" plywood with a rebate to fit in the 8mm groove.?
If you are using undermount slides, I cut the notch on the shaper with an adjustable groover as well.
Am embarking on making two large vanities for a master bath remodel and thinking through the process of making the drawer sides (solid poplar or maple) and bottom panel.
?
What are your best practices for cutting the drawer sides and the dado for the bottom panel using a K700S saw (with a dado stack) and F700Z shaper - lets keep the joinery (dovetail, etc.) out of the equation for now ;).?
?
Thank you!
?
Kamal Patel
?
? ??
|
Thanks for the responses.? Hardware will be Blum Undermount.? Imran, like the style of drawer front but might be a tad higher grade for a bathroom vanity and with inset drawers NASA accuracy will be needed ;).?
?
Bryce, thanks for the steps and its what I was looking for. Question:? "I set my rip fence from the inside edge of the dado stack to the width of the back" - can't quite picture this and the rip fence has a toe out so how are the drawer parts sent through and have a straight/square dado?? My preference is use to use a dado on the slider but ss you suggested, I could use the shaper but would require rotating the feeder on its side.
?
Thanks!
?
Kamal
?
?
|
Hi Kamal,
Yes, would be difficult to do with inset drawers depending upon the adjustments new slides offer?
I do the PF rotation often but can never remember the steps. So I made videos. BTW, no sweat with a comatic feeder.
| |
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 1, 2025, at 9:58?AM, KRPatel via groups.io <kamalsonal@...> wrote:
?
Thanks for the responses.? Hardware will be Blum Undermount.? Imran, like the style of drawer front but might be a tad higher grade for a bathroom vanity and with inset drawers NASA accuracy will be needed ;).?
?
Bryce, thanks for the steps and its what I was looking for. Question:? "I set my rip fence from the inside edge of the dado stack to the width of the back" - can't quite picture this and the rip fence has a toe out so how are the drawer parts sent through and have a straight/square dado?? My preference is use to use a dado on the slider but ss you suggested, I could use the shaper but would require rotating the feeder on its side.
?
Thanks!
?
Kamal
?
?
Imran, that is astonishing craftsmanship for a kitchen cabinet. Hats off :-)
|
Hi Benjamin,
Zinn Kitchens was a good outfit. I am not sure how they are doing now. Despite this very nice drawer feature, they would not produce inset doors/drawers - at least back in 1998-99. That was a big disappointment. We wanted to use them because they are only 20 miles from us and had good reputation, so really did not look around. I also had the thought that we probably would not want to pay what it would cost to have inset doors and drawers.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 1, 2025, at 11:13?AM, Benjamin Thompson via groups.io <scribbleben@...> wrote: ? Imran, that is astonishing craftsmanship for a kitchen cabinet. Hats off :-)
|
Tow out on the fence will only make the groove a few thousands wider than if it were perfectly parallel. It will still be straight.?
For a drawer bottom groove, you can skip the power feeder and use a continuous/break through fence and hand feed. Or just flip the feeder (I'd still use a continuous fence)
Thanks for the responses.? Hardware will be Blum Undermount.? Imran, like the style of drawer front but might be a tad higher grade for a bathroom vanity and with inset drawers NASA accuracy will be needed ;).?
?
Bryce, thanks for the steps and its what I was looking for. Question:? "I set my rip fence from the inside edge of the dado stack to the width of the back" - can't quite picture this and the rip fence has a toe out so how are the drawer parts sent through and have a straight/square dado?? My preference is use to use a dado on the slider but ss you suggested, I could use the shaper but would require rotating the feeder on its side.
?
Thanks!
?
Kamal
?
?
|
Sliding?dovetail joint is not difficult to make if you have a Leigh D4R Pro.
I sold my Leigh FMT Pro, my PantoRouter is far far superior than Leigh FMT Pro. But Leigh D4R Pro is a keeper, I made quite a lot of drawers with dovetail joints.
James
On Sat, Feb 1, 2025 at 11:37?AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Benjamin,
Zinn Kitchens was a good outfit. I am not sure how they are doing now. Despite this very nice drawer feature, they would not produce inset doors/drawers - at least back in 1998-99. That was a big disappointment. We wanted to use them because they are only 20 miles from us and had good reputation, so really did not look around. I also had the thought that we probably would not want to pay what it would cost to have inset doors and drawers. On Feb 1, 2025, at 11:13?AM, Benjamin Thompson via <scribbleben= [email protected]> wrote: ? Imran, that is astonishing craftsmanship for a kitchen cabinet. Hats off :-)
|
Btw, Trump's 25% tariff on Canadian?goods is coming. Looks like LeeValley still has the original price of $919 for now. Better to buy now if you plan to buy it :)
James
Sliding?dovetail joint is not difficult to make if you have a Leigh D4R Pro.
I sold my Leigh FMT Pro, my PantoRouter is far far superior than Leigh FMT Pro. But Leigh D4R Pro is a keeper, I made quite a lot of drawers with dovetail joints.
James
On Sat, Feb 1, 2025 at 11:37?AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Benjamin,
Zinn Kitchens was a good outfit. I am not sure how they are doing now. Despite this very nice drawer feature, they would not produce inset doors/drawers - at least back in 1998-99. That was a big disappointment. We wanted to use them because they are only 20 miles from us and had good reputation, so really did not look around. I also had the thought that we probably would not want to pay what it would cost to have inset doors and drawers. On Feb 1, 2025, at 11:13?AM, Benjamin Thompson via <scribbleben= [email protected]> wrote: ? Imran, that is astonishing craftsmanship for a kitchen cabinet. Hats off :-)
|
James, was angling toward the Lee Valley jig for the dovetails on those drawer joints but maybe the Pantorouter is the "route" ;) to go.
|
Kamal,
I have both PantoRouter and Leigh D4R Pro. I bought Leigh D4R more than 10 years ago.
If you want to choose only one between PantoRouter and Leigh D4R Pro, yes, PantoRouter is the choice, cause it can do more than just through dovetail. IMO, I think every woodworker should have a horizontal router.
Leigh D4R Pro can do more than through dovetails, like half-blind dovetails, single pass half-blind dovetails, rabbeted dovetails...
James
James, was angling toward the Lee Valley jig for the dovetails on those drawer joints but maybe the Pantorouter is the "route" ;) to go.
|
Hi Kamal,
I'm sorry i'm so late to reply to your question. You may have already figured it out, but in case you haven't, or simply want to give this way a go in the future, i have attached a photo of a quick sketch i did to help explain what i was eluding to.
In the drawing, i have the sides, back and front of the drawer box laid out so you see the grooves in all parts except for the back. That is cut to the width of the sides from the top edge to the top of the groove. When making the groove in the sides back and front, you will need to allow for the thickness of the material being used for the drawer bottom, and i think it's =/- 13mm for Blum undermount slides. (Just check, as i mostly use Salice these days)
When running the grooves with a dado stack, there shouldn't be any issue with the toe out of the fence. If there is, then you definitely need to fix your fence as there shouldn't be that much run out.?
Hope this helps,
Regards,
?
Bryce
--
https://www.brycecomerwoodworks.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHdrRaAZd_pOa7wwbdNPUEw
|
Hi Bryce,
What is the advantage of adding the drawer after the drawer glue up? Obviously, it is one less thing to worry about but is it more than that? Does it help with the way you clamp, or something else?
If your method is followed, would there be any drawback if the back and front are reversed? In which case, the bottom can be made a bit longer and it will be self contained by the decorative applied drawer front.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 5, 2025, at 7:26?PM, Bryce Comer via groups.io <bryce@...> wrote: ? Hi Kamal,
I'm sorry i'm so late to reply to your question. You may have already figured it out, but in case you haven't, or simply want to give this way a go in the future, i have attached a photo of a quick sketch i did to help explain what i was eluding to.
In the drawing, i have the sides, back and front of the drawer box laid out so you see the grooves in all parts except for the back. That is cut to the width of the sides from the top edge to the top of the groove. When making the groove in the sides back and front, you will need to allow for the thickness of the material being used for the drawer bottom, and i think it's =/- 13mm for Blum undermount slides. (Just check, as i mostly use Salice these days)
When running the grooves with a dado stack, there shouldn't be any issue with the toe out of the fence. If there is, then you definitely need to fix your fence as there shouldn't be that much run out.?
Hope this helps,
Regards,
?
Bryce
--
https://www.brycecomerwoodworks.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHdrRaAZd_pOa7wwbdNPUEw
<20250205_161552.jpg>
|
Imran,
If your using under-mount hardware, you need the front part of the drawer box to remain longer so that you have material on the underside to attache the drawer hardware portion that receives the slide portions of the hardware. ?
I also build my drawer boxes this way so that I don’t have to cut in those notches in the back. ?
Thx,
Wade
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 5, 2025, at 5:04 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Hi Bryce,
What is the advantage of adding the drawer after the drawer glue up? Obviously, it is one less thing to worry about but is it more than that? Does it help with the way you clamp, or something else?
If your method is followed, would there be any drawback if the back and front are reversed? In which case, the bottom can be made a bit longer and it will be self contained by the decorative applied drawer front.
On Feb 5, 2025, at 7:26?PM, Bryce Comer via groups.io <bryce@...> wrote:
? Hi Kamal,
I'm sorry i'm so late to reply to your question. You may have already figured it out, but in case you haven't, or simply want to give this way a go in the future, i have attached a photo of a quick sketch i did to help explain what i was eluding to.
In the drawing, i have the sides, back and front of the drawer box laid out so you see the grooves in all parts except for the back. That is cut to the width of the sides from the top edge to the top of the groove. When making the groove in the sides back and front, you will need to allow for the thickness of the material being used for the drawer bottom, and i think it's =/- 13mm for Blum undermount slides. (Just check, as i mostly use Salice these days)
When running the grooves with a dado stack, there shouldn't be any issue with the toe out of the fence. If there is, then you definitely need to fix your fence as there shouldn't be that much run out.?
Hope this helps,
Regards,
?
Bryce
--
https://www.brycecomerwoodworks.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHdrRaAZd_pOa7wwbdNPUEw
<20250205_161552.jpg>
|
Thanks Wade. I have not used undemount but now that you mention it, recall a video that talked about those notches.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 5, 2025, at 8:22?PM, Wade Dees via groups.io <wjdsignature@...> wrote: ? Imran,
If your using under-mount hardware, you need the front part of the drawer box to remain longer so that you have material on the underside to attache the drawer hardware portion that receives the slide portions of the hardware. ?
I also build my drawer boxes this way so that I don’t have to cut in those notches in the back. ?
Thx,
Wade
On Feb 5, 2025, at 5:04 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Hi Bryce,
What is the advantage of adding the drawer after the drawer glue up? Obviously, it is one less thing to worry about but is it more than that? Does it help with the way you clamp, or something else?
If your method is followed, would there be any drawback if the back and front are reversed? In which case, the bottom can be made a bit longer and it will be self contained by the decorative applied drawer front.
On Feb 5, 2025, at 7:26?PM, Bryce Comer via groups.io <bryce@...> wrote:
? Hi Kamal,
I'm sorry i'm so late to reply to your question. You may have already figured it out, but in case you haven't, or simply want to give this way a go in the future, i have attached a photo of a quick sketch i did to help explain what i was eluding to.
In the drawing, i have the sides, back and front of the drawer box laid out so you see the grooves in all parts except for the back. That is cut to the width of the sides from the top edge to the top of the groove. When making the groove in the sides back and front, you will need to allow for the thickness of the material being used for the drawer bottom, and i think it's =/- 13mm for Blum undermount slides. (Just check, as i mostly use Salice these days)
When running the grooves with a dado stack, there shouldn't be any issue with the toe out of the fence. If there is, then you definitely need to fix your fence as there shouldn't be that much run out.?
Hope this helps,
Regards,
?
Bryce
--
https://www.brycecomerwoodworks.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHdrRaAZd_pOa7wwbdNPUEw
<20250205_161552.jpg>
|
Bryce, no worries and thank you for the sketch and narrative.? I think I have it figured out as ultimately I was struggling with the toe-out and its effect on the dado...your comments along with those received from Best offline were incredibly helpful!??
Kamal Patel
|
Imran, I think another thing to consider with this approach (back panel shortened) is you can slide in your bottom panel after glue up and use nails or small screws to affix to the back panel.
?
Kamal?
|
imran
Bryce Comer
