Re: Shaper cutters to replace router bits #shapertools

#130381

Thanks for the input so far. It sounds like the group consensus would be to continue to use my router for the things it's good at. I built a very simple MDF table with a lift and homemade fence about 15 years ago. I was planning a serious upgrade like an Incra prior to buying the KF700. An Incra top and fence will run me almost as much as the Felder high speed spindle, not to mention still taking up about a 2'x3' footprint. I can certainly understand that removing the Aigner fence will be a PITA if I just need to use the saw briefly.?

Floor space is getting to be a premium. I just brought home a 3' x 5' granite surface plate that I need to work into the floor plan. Hmmm....

Re: A3-31 setup and calibration

#130380

开云体育

OK, just to confirm, you have the outfeed table set level to the cutterhead, correct??

If so, then first, check to see if your clamping the infeed table down and twisting it, you want to just barely tighten the clamp closest to the cutting head first to hold the table down and see what you have. If the temple bolt furthest from the cutterhead is too high, loosen it and drop it down. We want a three point contact, the two hinges and the closer temple bolt.

Then, adjust the non-hinge side to be the same distance below the outfeed table as the hinge side, so roughly .043” by jacking up the temple bolt. When the table is level to the cutterhead across the width, then double check the #2 and #4 points again.

If #2 and #4 are too low or high, you adjust the hinge closest to #2 to raise/lower the table to bring the table into coplanar with the outfeed.

Then the last step is to raise the temple bolt closest to #4 until it is just supporting the table, but not raising it. Now, you should be able to clamp the table as usual and not have it deflect.

Hope all that helps...

Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com

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On May 22, 2023, at 6:15 PM, Michael Gottlieb <westernsac@...> wrote:

Thanks Brian,
Obviously when I reinstalled the infeed table after installing the Shelix head, I thru the infeed table out of alignment.

I remeasured both tables according to your drawing and came up with the following:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? Point 1: .043 +/-
? ? ? ? ? ? ? Point 2: .001 +/-
? ? ? ? ? ? ? Point 3: .086 +/-
? ? ? ? ? ? ? Point 4: .001 +/-
It's interesting that the two tables are close at the rear, but off at the front. I will have to think about my next step.

Re: A3-31 setup and calibration

#130379

Thanks Brian,
Obviously when I reinstalled the infeed table after installing the Shelix head, I thru the infeed table out of alignment.

I remeasured both tables according to your drawing and came up with the following:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? Point 1: .043 +/-
? ? ? ? ? ? ? Point 2: .001 +/-
? ? ? ? ? ? ? Point 3: .086 +/-
? ? ? ? ? ? ? Point 4: .001 +/-
It's interesting that the two tables are close at the rear, but off at the front. I will have to think about my next step.

Re: A3-31 setup and calibration

#130378

开云体育

Ok, long straight edge at the hinge side of the table, is the infeed the same height close to the cutterhead and far away from the cutterhead? If so, and the only issue is that it drops .020” as you come to the temple bolt side, then you can raise the temple bolts and the table will now be coplanar with the outfeed.

If the infeed table is different amounts of distance below the outfeed in a straight line, then you are going to have to adjust both the hinge and temple bolt side. See sketch below.

Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com

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On May 22, 2023, at 3:16 PM, Michael Gottlieb <westernsac@...> wrote:

The infeed table is not parallel to the outfeed in the long direction> It can't be because the whole infeed table is lower on the handle side and higher on the hinge side. So the choice is raise the handle side or lower the hinge side. Again, the difference is about .020".

Re: A3-31 setup and calibration

#130377

The infeed table is not parallel to the outfeed in the long direction> It can't be because the whole infeed table is lower on the handle side and higher on the hinge side. So the choice is raise the handle side or lower the hinge side. Again, the difference is about .020".

Re: A3-31 setup and calibration

#130376

开云体育

If you have the infeed parallel to the outfeed in the long direction, but it’s not level side to side, then I would adjust your out board side by the handle.

Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com

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On May 22, 2023, at 11:54 AM, Michael Gottlieb <westernsac@...> wrote:

I just finished converting a 15 yr. old A3-31 to a Shelix cutter head. I have my outfeed table in line with the new cutter head. My infeed table is not coplanar with the outfeed table. Should I attempt adjustment of the infeed table by raising the adjustment screws on the handle side, or lowering the adjustments screws on the hinge side? The difference in the infeed table from front to back is about .020". Any suggestions?

Re: Shaper cutters to replace router bits #shapertools

#130375

开云体育

I agree with David on this. ??I am certainly a lower skill level than most in this group? I have accumulated some heads but have others I was sure I would use and have never put them on my shaper.

Get

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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...>
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2023 4:35:13 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Shaper cutters to replace router bits #shapertools

?

?I recommend you NOT buy a collection of shaper tooling prospectively. ?Buy as you need them. ?I could make the case that everyone needs a rebate head, but when it comes to profile cutters and groovers, the type of projects you embark on will have a lot of influence on which specific cutters to buy. ?I have some shaper cutters that I was convinced I would need and haven’t been used once in 20 years. ?

David Best - via mobile phone?

On May 22, 2023, at 6:52 AM, rodsheridan <riderofgallifrey@...> wrote:

?For new shaper owners I always suggest 3 cutters to start with

1) a 125mm diameter carbide rebate head for rebates, planing, bevelling and pattern copying?

2) an adjustable groover for grooves, bridle joints and tenons.

3) a 40 or 40/50mm Euroblock head with limiters for steel knives, which will handle most of your solid wood profiling

As you have a Felder, I presume you have a curve guard, I would add a few back bearing guide rings including a 125mm one

Regards, Rod

--
Michael Marsico

Re: Shaper cutters to replace router bits #shapertools

#130374

开云体育

?I recommend you NOT buy a collection of shaper tooling prospectively. ?Buy as you need them. ?I could make the case that everyone needs a rebate head, but when it comes to profile cutters and groovers, the type of projects you embark on will have a lot of influence on which specific cutters to buy. ?I have some shaper cutters that I was convinced I would need and haven’t been used once in 20 years. ?

David Best - via mobile phone?

Show quoted text

On May 22, 2023, at 6:52 AM, rodsheridan <riderofgallifrey@...> wrote:

?For new shaper owners I always suggest 3 cutters to start with

1) a 125mm diameter carbide rebate head for rebates, planing, bevelling and pattern copying?

2) an adjustable groover for grooves, bridle joints and tenons.

3) a 40 or 40/50mm Euroblock head with limiters for steel knives, which will handle most of your solid wood profiling

As you have a Felder, I presume you have a curve guard, I would add a few back bearing guide rings including a 125mm one

Regards, Rod

Re: Shaper cutters to replace router bits #shapertools

#130373

Why 125mm for the rebate head specifically? No opinion just curious.?

Re: A3-31 setup and calibration

#130372

I just finished converting a 15 yr. old A3-31 to a Shelix cutter head. I have my outfeed table in line with the new cutter head. My infeed table is not coplanar with the outfeed table. Should I attempt adjustment of the infeed table by raising the adjustment screws on the handle side, or lowering the adjustments screws on the hinge side? The difference in the infeed table from front to back is about .020". Any suggestions?

Re: Electronic brake C3 31

Roger S

#130371

开云体育

I just measured the time for my table saw blade to stop spinning. ?

1) Powered up, start the table saw then stop ie brake operational - time to stop 10 seconds

2) Powered up, start the table saw then turn off the breaker - time to stop 20 seconds ? ?thus proving the brake module is working.

Reason why it takes longer to stop than yours, Jonathan, is that mine is a replacement from the OEM and IIRC there are two variable resistors that need tweaking. ?Now without knowing what the parameters should be, I’ve not bothered.

The ’take-away’ from this IMO is that (1) and (2) are a quick way to determine if the brake module is working or not since there is more inertia in the table saw than the planer/thicknesser and so easier to see the difference in time between (1) and (2)

HTH

Roger

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On 22 May 2023, at 04:45, Jonathan Martens <jonathan@...> wrote:

On May 21, 2023 13:01, "Rich M." <rmarkiewicz@...> wrote:
My C3 manuals only show this one circuit schematic drawing (PDF attached).

It is item 7 Bremsplatine (brake PCB). I am fairly certain it has some faulty component(s).?

My blade stops almost instantly, shaper runs a little longer but stops quickly enough to hear it buzzing a few seconds after it stopped (w/o ear protection and dust collector off)?

Kind regards,?

Jonathan?

Re: Newbie with questions

#130370

As others have said, the 4 function combination machine is best suited to a large square shop where you have good access from four sides.

For that reason I chose an A3 jointer/planer and a B3 saw/shaper.

I replaced 4 Canadian General machines with the above 13 years ago and couldn’t be happier with the capacity, capability and safety, I wouldn’t go back to North American style machines

Regards, Rod

Re: Shaper cutters to replace router bits #shapertools

#130369

For new shaper owners I always suggest 3 cutters to start with

1) a 125mm diameter carbide rebate head for rebates, planing, bevelling and pattern copying?

2) an adjustable groover for grooves, bridle joints and tenons.

3) a 40 or 40/50mm Euroblock head with limiters for steel knives, which will handle most of your solid wood profiling

As you have a Felder, I presume you have a curve guard, I would add a few back bearing guide rings including a 125mm one

Regards, Rod

Re: Shaper cutters to replace router bits #shapertools

#130368

Not sure about your K700 but my CF731 router spindle rotates at a higher speed than the standard shaper spindle. The higer speeds are better for router bits
--
Paul Mc Cann

Re: What other tool forums do you follow?

#130367

I also follow the roblandX31 group (also on groups.io) since I have a Robland machine. This forum, while Felder-oriented, has been a huge source of knowledge for me - electrical issues, setup issues, etc, which you confront regardless of the brand of machine you own.?

Re: Electronic brake C3 31

#130366

On May 21, 2023 13:01, "Rich M." <rmarkiewicz@...> wrote:

My C3 manuals only show this one circuit schematic drawing (PDF attached).

It is item 7 Bremsplatine (brake PCB). I am fairly certain it has some faulty component(s).?

My blade stops almost instantly, shaper runs a little longer but stops quickly enough to hear it buzzing a few seconds after it stopped (w/o ear protection and dust collector off)?

Kind regards,?

Jonathan?

Re: Felder Silent Power Dado 6.3-20mm #forsale

#130365

开云体育

Thanks David B. Your documentation (accessed from your Flickr link) is far more thorough than mine! Thanks for sharing.

?

Warm regards,

Lucky

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...>
Date: Monday, 22 May 2023 at 13:30
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder Silent Power Dado 6.3-20mm #forsale

I thought I would chime in with some photos of a KF700 shaper hood with 220mm diameter tooling installed for comparison. ?I pulled these photos out of the archive and they relate to the KF700 and F700. ?The first image below is right out of the Survival Guide, and it illustrates the point that the Felder 220mm rebate head, which has a total thickness of 30mm, will NOT fully lower into the shaper cavity. ?To clear the obstructions below the cutter, it must sit proud of the cast iron top by 3mm.

?

If someone else on here would measure the diameter of the hole in the cast iron top with all rings removed, it might clarify what size tooling will actually fit down into the cavity. ?But looking at the photo above, that being a 220mm diameter cutter, I’d say the chances of the 228mm dado cutter being able to clear the hole in the cast iron top is good, although the margins will be quite small. ?The large Felder dado cutter will have a maximum thickness of just under 24mm when fitted with shims to cut 20mm wide groove, and thus will very likely sink down into the shaper cavity without impingement unless it’s tilted.

?

The photo below shows a pair of 220mm rebate heads mounted on a KF700 with the Aigner fence installed on the hood. ?By eye, the possible cutter projection appears to be in the neighborhood of 50mm with the fence plates move to the extreme outward position.

?

For sure, the Felder dado cutter can be accommodated by the optional Felder tenoning hood mentioned in?Jacques previous post. ?There is more on shaper hood comparisons at this link: ??

?

Another alternative is the larger of the two Aigner BowmouldMaster hoods. ?Shown below is a photo I just took of that unit, which illustrates a 235mm diameter tooling limit, and has no projection limitations. ?So the Felder dado cutters will fit fine under this hood.

?

Following up on Lucky’s post, I have fully documented the Profil 45 shaper tooling capacity at the following link:

?

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best

?

Show quoted text

On May 21, 2023, at 7:48 PM, Jacques Gagnon <jacques.gagnon309@...> wrote:

?

David,

Thanks for the info. Your pictures describe well the possibilities and limitations associated with large cutter heads.

Maybe my earlier message was not clear; I made reference to the use of the tenoning hood, which allows for a larger tool than the ? main fence ?. The operations will, however, be different than what can be done with the main fence.?

I have attached a screen capture of the item I was talking about.

I hope this helps clear any confusion.

Jacques <IMG_7089.png>

?

Re: What other tool forums do you follow?

#130364

On May 22, 2023 04:00, Larry Long Neck <longneckwood@...> wrote:

I'm curious how many folks directly use email to respond to threads rather than the UI??

Usually only through e-mail, although there is a fair bunch of people using the web interface judging from duplicate mails caused by edited messages (a minor annoyance to me)?

Kind regards,?

Jonathan?

Re: Felder Silent Power Dado 6.3-20mm #forsale

#130363

开云体育

I thought I would chime in with some photos of a KF700 shaper hood with 220mm diameter tooling installed for comparison. ?I pulled these photos out of the archive and they relate to the KF700 and F700. ?The first image below is right out of the Survival Guide, and it illustrates the point that the Felder 220mm rebate head, which has a total thickness of 30mm, will NOT fully lower into the shaper cavity. ?To clear the obstructions below the cutter, it must sit proud of the cast iron top by 3mm.

If someone else on here would measure the diameter of the hole in the cast iron top with all rings removed, it might clarify what size tooling will actually fit down into the cavity. ?But looking at the photo above, that being a 220mm diameter cutter, I’d say the chances of the 228mm dado cutter being able to clear the hole in the cast iron top is good, although the margins will be quite small. ?The large Felder dado cutter will have a maximum thickness of just under 24mm when fitted with shims to cut 20mm wide groove, and thus will very likely sink down into the shaper cavity without impingement unless it’s tilted.

The photo below shows a pair of 220mm rebate heads mounted on a KF700 with the Aigner fence installed on the hood. ?By eye, the possible cutter projection appears to be in the neighborhood of 50mm with the fence plates move to the extreme outward position.

For sure, the Felder dado cutter can be accommodated by the optional Felder tenoning hood mentioned in?Jacques previous post. ?There is more on shaper hood comparisons at this link: ??

Another alternative is the larger of the two Aigner BowmouldMaster hoods. ?Shown below is a photo I just took of that unit, which illustrates a 235mm diameter tooling limit, and has no projection limitations. ?So the Felder dado cutters will fit fine under this hood.

Following up on Lucky’s post, I have fully documented the Profil 45 shaper tooling capacity at the following link:

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best

Show quoted text

On May 21, 2023, at 7:48 PM, Jacques Gagnon <jacques.gagnon309@...> wrote:

David,

Thanks for the info. Your pictures describe well the possibilities and limitations associated with large cutter heads.

Maybe my earlier message was not clear; I made reference to the use of the tenoning hood, which allows for a larger tool than the ? main fence ?. The operations will, however, be different than what can be done with the main fence.?

I have attached a screen capture of the item I was talking about.

I hope this helps clear any confusion.

Jacques <IMG_7089.png>

Re: Felder Silent Power Dado 6.3-20mm #forsale

#130362

开云体育

Hi Jacques:

?

No worries. I was replying to Steve’s original query about the 228mm dado and feasibility of using it in a shaper. Apologies if I mixed up my reply with your post about the tenoning hood. Indeed, that is a different scenario, although the below-table constraints remain – but you’re across those. Cheers.

?

Warm regards,

Lucky

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Jacques Gagnon <jacques.gagnon309@...>
Date: Monday, 22 May 2023 at 12:48
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder Silent Power Dado 6.3-20mm #forsale

David,

Thanks for the info. Your pictures describe well the possibilities and limitations associated with large cutter heads.

Maybe my earlier message was not clear; I made reference to the use of the tenoning hood, which allows for a larger tool than the ? main fence ?. The operations will, however, be different than what can be done with the main fence.?

I have attached a screen capture of the item I was talking about.

I hope this helps clear any confusion.

Jacques