>? Given the advise here, I will probably stay with the 7.4 HP motor and will have?> some overhead room for the PP 330.
It sounds like you think a 10HP motor automatically uses up the capacity of a 10HP PP.? This is not that case.
The PP rating is the maximum load it supports, expressed for convenience in HP, but a more accurate rating is amperage.? ?Per PP specs, the "Rated Current Output" is 30 amps.
The Full Load Amps (FLA) of a 10HP motor is generally ~28 amps.? But this is how much amperage it draws at the maximum load (strain) on the motor, and amperage draw is proportional to motor load.? ?
An idle motor draws about 1/3 FLA, or ~9 amps for your 10 HP motor.? Cutting through a light load like 1/2" plywood will barely increase the amp draw.? ? Cutting 12/4 oak may load the motor 60% or so, though it depends on factors like feed rate, blade sharpness, etc.
So in typical operation with a 10HP saw motor, you'd have 30-60% of the PP's Rate Current Output still available.?
Also, the PP has "Rated Current Output" of 30 amps, but the specs also say "Maximum 3-phase current,
steady state" is 36 amps.? I believe this extra 20% is their "overbuilt" buffer.
In summary, the PP gives you lots of overhead even with a 10HP motor.? But you don't need a 10HP, so it's a waste of money.
|
I have a Comatic DC40 on a smart feeder on a 2009 KF700SP on the Felder tilt bracket with a self-built big lift type gas strut. The 4 wheel is large and heavy and I would never be able to flip it without the big lift gas strut assist. I moved from a Maggie 3 wheel on a Maggie stand. I wanted 4 wheels so I could have two wheels on either side of the cutter for most operations. I love the smart stand and I am happy I got the 4 wheel. Having said that I rest the top of the Smart Stand on a piece of scrap lumber when flipped down because it would hit the floor if I didn't. The feeder still flips all the way out of the way but it is just a smidge too tall. Maybe someday I'll get ambitious and shorten the vertical column.
Email me if you want some pics of the feeder and stand up flipped down. It's no issue at all when flipped up and a very minor issue when flipped down.
Hi SW,
I run the Comatic DC40 smart feeder with single phase 120 volt. Since the DC40 converts AC power to DC it is possible to move some jumpers and run the feeder with single phase or three phase and with 120 volt or 240 volt.
I like to control the power feeder independently of the spindle power on or off. I would like to have it set up so the power feeder stops when the red power off button is pressed so that is something is going wrong the feeder stops with the spindle. But that is not possible when using 120 volt as the KF700 supplies whatever power it is running on.
If you are running the power feeder from the plug on the KF700 then it will power on and off with the start stop buttons for the shaper or the saw. I don't like the power feeder running when I am hand feeding something. I suppose I could turn the feeder off with the feeder controls.
If you are considering the Comatic Smart Stand for your Comatic feeder I think it is too large to use on a KF700. A three wheeled feeder with standard stand and lift assist device is ideal for a KF700.
I think 7.5 HP is enough power. I have not found 7.5 HP to be a limitation on my Profile 45z shaper.
Joe in New Orleans
Joe Jensen | VP Internet of Things Group | GM Retail Solutions Div.
480-554-8207-Office | 480-231-0669-Cell
[banner 2016]
|
Yea when I was there you could have eaten off the floor.
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Re: Aigner shaper accessories on Felder Combos
basically all you need to do is to enlarge the hole in the shaper hood to allow the threaded rod from the Aigner mounting stud to fit. You can see (if the pictures made it) the mounting stud can travel in an arc to vary the height of the stud. AIGNER Integral fence L500mm R500mm safe machining on a vertical spindle mille Dave AI-213311000193 846,94 [image: Inline image 1][image: Inline image 2][image: Inline image 3][image: Inline image 4] On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 10:37 PM, patrick walsh pwalsh651@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
That would be much appreciated!
On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, David Davies myfinishingtouch@...
[felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
I'll find the pictures I took of my Aigner fence. It's a super easy mod.
Dave
On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 10:04 PM, patrick walsh pwalsh651@...
[felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
James,
So if I¡¯m figurimg right I might save a couple hunter bucks but then I
need to drill and tap my new fence plates?
On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, James Zhu james.zhu2@...
[felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
I do not think they will drill the fence for you.
The price on their website includes 19% VAT, so your cost is their
website price / 1.19 plus the shipping. The shipping cost varies depending
on the weight of the items.
You can just place the order on their website, if your order goes
through, it means your items are not over weight, so you will be charged
with standard 139..99 euro shipping charge. If your order does not go
through, you can contact them, or wait, then you will get a paypal payment
request which will include the total cost with the updated shipping charge,
if you are ok with it, you can pay thru paypal, then wait for your order.
James
On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 9:04 PM, patrick walsh pwalsh651@...
[felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
Anyone know if you can get the fences that are drilled out for our
machines from this vendor?
If so anyone purchase them and have a idea what the final cost was
after shipping so forth and so on.
The fences have been high on my list for quite some time and I just
keep putting them off. Don¡¯t know why considering how much of my income I
continually spend on tools were to week n]month to month year to year..
On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, imranindiana@...
[felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
FYI, bunch of us ordered Aigner stuff from
at much lower prices than in USA. They normally run an 8% discount
which helps offset the shipping charges.
It would be a PITA if there was an issue with the item but no one
here has voiced any issues with there orders.
Imran
--
Dave & Marie Davies
www.myfinishingtouch.com
318-219-7868 <(318)%20219-7868>
-- Dave & Marie Davies www.myfinishingtouch.com 318-219-7868 <(318)%20219-7868> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
David,
I so how want to know how your shop is always so clean, if i dont do anything in mine it gets dirty.
Is there a hidden secret you have.
Glen
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking]
To: rcorselli@... [felder-woodworking]
Sent: Thu, Jan 11, 2018 6:39 pm
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] KF 700 SP options
?
Exactly Glen. ? Here¡¯s what my shop looks like when I¡¯m in build it mode:?
David Best
My?guess is for people that are tight on space, In my case I don't expect to need to remove it as I have plenty of space however I might see the need to take it off if im going to do a lot of straight line ripping or general ripping because I might see that the outrigger could be awkward to walk around. but then I don't really know as I haven't used my machine yet. I will know soon.
Glen
-----Original Message-----
From: patrick walsh ?pwalsh651@...?[felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...>
To: felder-woodworking < felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Thu, Jan 11, 2018 6:07 pm
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] KF 700 SP options
?
Not my thread but may I ask why one would want to remove the outrigger table and fennec on a slider.
I don¡¯t have as much experience ona slider as manynhere so maybe Im missing something.?
I have been using a older Altendorf f45 now for the last 8 months at work ona daily basis and I just can¡¯t see why one would ever want to remove it?
I ask because I have a small basement shop much like David¡¯s and a slider will be making its way in over the next year so this conversation is very interesting to me..
Thank you and congrats on the new purchase. Very exciting for all us machinery nerds...
On Thursday, January 11, 2018, Bellsouth ?dohertyj@...?[felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
David,
Did you read Lucky¡¯s post about his feeder starting and stopping with the spindle?
Joe in New Orleans
This is confusing to me. ? How do you get the Comatic feeder to automatically start running when power is applied to it? ? If I start my Comatic feeder, unplug it, then plug it back in, it powers back up on the OFF mode and I have to press the start switch on the feeder again to get it running - which is the way it should be for safety purposes.. ? So I seriously doubt John¡¯s feeder starts running by itself when the shaper spindle switch is depressed.
Having the power to the PF unavailable if the shaper motor is not running would drive me nuts - setting up the feeder to track accurately is trial and error and I usually test the feeder tracking setup without the spindle turning until I¡¯m certain it¡¯s aligned properly. ??
David Best
?
Gary,
That is interesting.
There must be options that can be set.
I think John Ferandin¡¯s Profile 45z has a time delay then starts the feeder after the spindle is started and then the feeder stops when the spindle stops.?
I never hooked my feeder to the shaper plug because I did not want to the feeder to start and stop this way.
Joe in New Orleans
|
I bought the KF700 that they had on the floor. Pretty much the far end of the spectrum from your machine. :) Pretty sure Liz will be happy to have more time to deal with other clients. I am really happy with my interaction with her.
|
Thanks David.? I think I will skip Option 173.? It sounds from your description to be more of a challenge to use it.? I also don't see if I will need it for any future project.? Although now that I stated this, I will one day wish I had order it.? :-)
I figure I will leave the 49" rip option intact on the quote sheet.? I don't want any potential confusion when Felder build this machine.
What you said regarding the dado size relative to the scoring blade is what I thought too.? All the dado sets that I have used had been smaller than an average size saw blade for the saw.? I will try searching for the thread/post where I read this and post here if I find out more.?? ---In felder-woodworking@..., <david@...> wrote :
Given what David said about the dust extractor position for 49" clearance to the right of the blade, I might as well stay with the 49" rip capacity option.? One of the pluses of this machine is the ability? to process full-size sheet goods.??
You don¡¯t have to have a 49¡± rip fence to cut to the center of a 4x8 panel, but you do need to have the overhead support post at the 49¡± position (which is how my Kappa is configured).
I looked at David's pictures.? David, you have the mitre indexing system.? Is that Option 170 or 173?? Do you find it useful and simple to use?? It looks complicated from the pictures and catalog.? I cannot tell if it can be used accurately.??
I have the ¡°Mitre index scale with length compensation¡± option?430-26041 on the quote. ?On the Felder web site for the KF700, it¡¯s referred to as option 173. ? I have a number of comments about this option. ? 1 - yes, it is accurate - both in angle settings and compensating for length. ? 2 - it is cumbersome to use with the digital crosscut fence because that fence is so heavy and awkward to reposition. ? That option makes more sense to me in conjunction with the simpler, lighter weight analog crosscut fence. ? The process of using the indexing system is as follows: ?unlock the lever that clamps the fence to the outrigger table, push the fence toward the blade to disengage it from the 90-degree index stop, move the fence to the desired angle as you also continue to push the fence toward the blade, once at the desired index stop, push the fence into the index detent, then re-lock the fence to the outrigger table. ?3 - only selected and commonly used angles index with length compensation - you can set any arbitrary angle of course, but length compensation will be wrong and you¡¯ll need some other method to know you¡¯re on the target angle. ?
Because of the cumbersome nature of this setup, Felder developed an option for the outrigger called the Outrigger X-Roll table - essentially putting the crosscut fence on it¡¯s own linear actuator which also includes a digital readout of the angle, and positioning can be fine adjusted with a rotating wheel. ?Lucky has this option and I wish it¡¯s what I ordered. ? To get length compensation with the X-Roll outrigger table, another option must be added that communicates between the digital crosscut stops and the DRO on the X-Roll linear actuator. ?But so far as I know, the outrigger X-Roll option is only available on the Kappa 400 series. ? You might ask if they¡¯ll do a special for you since there is absolutely no physical reason why the X-Roll outrigger couldn¡¯t be configured onto a 700 - it¡¯s just a marketing contrivance that it¡¯s not listed as available on the 700 so you¡¯ll up-sell to the Kappa.
The other indexing option available for the 700 is "Precision miter unit with pin locating system for outrigger table crosscut fence¡± or option 170 on the Felder web site is not worth having. ? I had it on my K975, and it¡¯s not accurate and just as difficult to use as option 173.
I don¡¯t do a lot of mitered cuts using the crosscut fence. ? So feel like I wasted the extra $1,000 they get for option 173. ? Your situation may be different. ? Additionally, I found the indexing peg that sticks down from the bottom of the crosscut fence to be an annoyance as it complicates position of the fence to an odd angle, so I removed the peg and thereby disabled the utility of the miter indexing system. ? Option 173 absolutely can not be added in the field - it¡¯s calibrated with custom jigs at the factory, so if you ever think you¡¯ll want it, order it with the machine. I recall reading that the KF 700 SP should be specified at time of order to configure it to be able to use a grooving/dado cutter without removal of the scoring blade.? Can someone elaborate on this?? This information is not in the catalog or at Felder website.??
This is news to me if you¡¯re talking about a Felder dado set. ? That set is 228mm diameter, and I know for a fact that you can have a 250mm saw blade along with the scoring saw blade mounted. ? The conflict with having to remove the scoring saw blade occurs when the saw blade is larger than 250mm but I don¡¯t know the current limit. ? I believe there is an undocumented option to allow 350mm saw blades on the machine without CE certification. ?I would love to learn more about this, so if you dig to the bottom of it, please post here.
Once again, thanks for your guidance.??
SW
|
Mark, which machine(s) are you purchasing?? I'm just curious.? :)?? ---In felder-woodworking@..., <mfsta2lt@...> wrote : Liz should have more time to help you as soon as she gets my machine out the door! My apologizes if her phone has been busy. :)
Now we just have to figure which freight company to use.... Could be an issue when you don't live near a major population center.
Now to buy the phase converter and new blades!
Good luck with your machine.
Mark
|
Thanks a David,
I kinda figured the only reason to remove it was the need for additional space.
I could see this situation in my shop much like yours. However the prospect of needing or wanting to make a cut then ¡°not¡± because I couldn¡¯t be bothered to put my saw back together does not sound like it would be in my nature. That¡¯s me though and each to his own.
The idea of two flip stops is wonderful for Xy cuts. Our Altendorf is prehistoric and also has two flip stops. Only one can be used at a time though. Taking the telescoping one on and off the machine becomes a chore real quick. Quality work requires patients but I¡¯m not a very patient guy when a tool becomes more work to use than it has to be.?
Like the op i can also not see any reason to not get the additional width of the rip fence or table if the dust extraction/blade guard takes up as much space anyway.?
I¡¯m not sure what our saw at work has for rip fence/table width but it is at least 48¡±? The way the saw is placed in the shop the bar the fence mounts to is right up against our lumber rack. As a result the last few inches on the scale can¡¯t be used nor can the rip fence be pushed out of the way. I can¡¯t tell you how often I need or want that extra few inches. I build kitchen cabinets for point of reference. Most of the time it¡¯s when I want to break a 4x8 sheet in half or take say one foot off a 4 foot rip without working backwards off the crosscut fence scale.?
That¡¯s just my two cents on having the rip fence width or not. Even as a bump stop it¡¯s really really handy..
?
Does it do any harm leaving the slider fully extended for say a few days at at time? Would it droop under its own weight to a point that it would affect normal usage afterwards?
Stephen
On 12 Jan 2018 02:39, "'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking]" < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
?
Exactly Glen. ? Here¡¯s what my shop looks like when I¡¯m in build it mode:?
David Best
My?guess is for people that are tight on space, In my case I don't expect to need to remove it as I have plenty of space however I might see the need to take it off if im going to do a lot of straight line ripping or general ripping because I might see that the outrigger could be awkward to walk around. but then I don't really know as I haven't used my machine yet.. I will know soon.
Glen
-----Original Message----- From: patrick walsh ?pwalsh651@...?[fel der-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> To: felder-woodworking < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 11, 2018 6:07 pm Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] KF 700 SP options ?Not my thread but may I ask why one would want to remove the outrigger table and fennec on a slider.
I don¡¯t have as much experience ona slider as manynhere so maybe Im missing something.?
I have been using a older Altendorf f45 now for the last 8 months at work ona daily basis and I just can¡¯t see why one would ever want to remove it?
I ask because I have a small basement shop much like David¡¯s and a slider will be making its way in over the next year so this conversation is very interesting to me..
Thank you and congrats on the new purchase. Very exciting for all us machinery nerds... On Thursday, January 11, 2018, Bellsouth ?dohertyj@...et?[felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote: ?David,
Did you read Lucky¡¯s post about his feeder starting and stopping with the spindle?
Joe in New Orleans
This is confusing to me. ? How do you get the Comatic feeder to automatically start running when power is applied to it? ? If I start my Comatic feeder, unplug it, then plug it back in, it powers back up on the OFF mode and I have to press the start switch on the feeder again to get it running - which is the way it should be for safety purposes.. ? So I seriously doubt John¡¯s feeder starts running by itself when the shaper spindle switch is depressed.
Having the power to the PF unavailable if the shaper motor is not running would drive me nuts - setting up the feeder to track accurately is trial and error and I usually test the feeder tracking setup without the spindle turning until I¡¯m certain it¡¯s aligned properly. ??
David Best
?
Gary,
That is interesting.
There must be options that can be set.
I think John Ferandin¡¯s Profile 45z has a time delay then starts the feeder after the spindle is started and then the feeder stops when the spindle stops.?
I never hooked my feeder to the shaper plug because I did not want to the feeder to start and stop this way.
Joe in New Orleans
|
?Very good point. I learn something new every day! The upshot is you can always add it later if your workflow would benefit. The extension on the other hand looks to be factory only. I briefly looked inside my fence and couldn¡¯t find a magnetic strip.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
I would definitely skip the right hand digital stop.?
There is an advantage in my workflow to having a second digital stop on the main part of the fence. ? I routinely set up to cut parts that are all x by y dimension and having a second stop means I can set up both stops and leave them in position. ? Just another thing to think through and it all depends on your workflow.
David Best
|
Does it do any harm leaving the slider fully extended for say a few days at at time? Would it droop under its own weight to a point that it would affect normal usage afterwards?
Stephen
?
Exactly Glen. ? Here¡¯s what my shop looks like when I¡¯m in build it mode:?
David Best
My?guess is for people that are tight on space, In my case I don't expect to need to remove it as I have plenty of space however I might see the need to take it off if im going to do a lot of straight line ripping or general ripping because I might see that the outrigger could be awkward to walk around. but then I don't really know as I haven't used my machine yet. I will know soon.
Glen
-----Original Message----- From: patrick walsh ?pwalsh651@...?[ felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> To: felder-woodworking < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 11, 2018 6:07 pm Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] KF 700 SP options ?Not my thread but may I ask why one would want to remove the outrigger table and fennec on a slider.
I don¡¯t have as much experience ona slider as manynhere so maybe Im missing something.?
I have been using a older Altendorf f45 now for the last 8 months at work ona daily basis and I just can¡¯t see why one would ever want to remove it?
I ask because I have a small basement shop much like David¡¯s and a slider will be making its way in over the next year so this conversation is very interesting to me..
Thank you and congrats on the new purchase. Very exciting for all us machinery nerds... On Thursday, January 11, 2018, Bellsouth ?dohertyj@bellsouth.net?[felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote: ?David,
Did you read Lucky¡¯s post about his feeder starting and stopping with the spindle?
Joe in New Orleans
This is confusing to me. ? How do you get the Comatic feeder to automatically start running when power is applied to it? ? If I start my Comatic feeder, unplug it, then plug it back in, it powers back up on the OFF mode and I have to press the start switch on the feeder again to get it running - which is the way it should be for safety purposes.. ? So I seriously doubt John¡¯s feeder starts running by itself when the shaper spindle switch is depressed.
Having the power to the PF unavailable if the shaper motor is not running would drive me nuts - setting up the feeder to track accurately is trial and error and I usually test the feeder tracking setup without the spindle turning until I¡¯m certain it¡¯s aligned properly. ??
David Best
?
Gary,
That is interesting.
There must be options that can be set.
I think John Ferandin¡¯s Profile 45z has a time delay then starts the feeder after the spindle is started and then the feeder stops when the spindle stops.?
I never hooked my feeder to the shaper plug because I did not want to the feeder to start and stop this way.
Joe in New Orleans
|
I would definitely skip the right hand digital stop.?
There is an advantage in my workflow to having a second digital stop on the main part of the fence. ? I routinely set up to cut parts that are all x by y dimension and having a second stop means I can set up both stops and leave them in position. ? Just another thing to think through and it all depends on your workflow.
David Best
|
Exactly Glen. ? Here¡¯s what my shop looks like when I¡¯m in build it mode:?
David Best
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
My?guess is for people that are tight on space, In my case I don't expect to need to remove it as I have plenty of space however I might see the need to take it off if im going to do a lot of straight line ripping or general ripping because I might see that the outrigger could be awkward to walk around. but then I don't really know as I haven't used my machine yet. I will know soon.
Glen
-----Original Message----- From: patrick walsh ?pwalsh651@...?[felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> To: felder-woodworking < felder-woodworking@...> Sent: Thu, Jan 11, 2018 6:07 pm Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] KF 700 SP options ?Not my thread but may I ask why one would want to remove the outrigger table and fennec on a slider.
I don¡¯t have as much experience ona slider as manynhere so maybe Im missing something.?
I have been using a older Altendorf f45 now for the last 8 months at work ona daily basis and I just can¡¯t see why one would ever want to remove it?
I ask because I have a small basement shop much like David¡¯s and a slider will be making its way in over the next year so this conversation is very interesting to me..
Thank you and congrats on the new purchase. Very exciting for all us machinery nerds... On Thursday, January 11, 2018, Bellsouth ?dohertyj@...?[felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote: ?David,
Did you read Lucky¡¯s post about his feeder starting and stopping with the spindle?
Joe in New Orleans
This is confusing to me. ? How do you get the Comatic feeder to automatically start running when power is applied to it? ? If I start my Comatic feeder, unplug it, then plug it back in, it powers back up on the OFF mode and I have to press the start switch on the feeder again to get it running - which is the way it should be for safety purposes.. ? So I seriously doubt John¡¯s feeder starts running by itself when the shaper spindle switch is depressed.
Having the power to the PF unavailable if the shaper motor is not running would drive me nuts - setting up the feeder to track accurately is trial and error and I usually test the feeder tracking setup without the spindle turning until I¡¯m certain it¡¯s aligned properly. ??
David Best
?
Gary,
That is interesting.
There must be options that can be set.
I think John Ferandin¡¯s Profile 45z has a time delay then starts the feeder after the spindle is started and then the feeder stops when the spindle stops.?
I never hooked my feeder to the shaper plug because I did not want to the feeder to start and stop this way.
Joe in New Orleans
|
Patrick, I remove the outrigger table when I need the additional circulation room in my shop. ? When building a kitchen for instance, after I cut the material, I¡¯ll remove the outrigger table so I have more room to actually construct and move around the cabinets during assembly. ? In my last shop in San Francisco, I had plenty of room (and a $2,000/month shop rent to go with it) and the outrigger stayed on the machine all the time.
David Best
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Not my thread but may I ask why one would want to remove the outrigger table and fennec on a slider.
I don¡¯t have as much experience ona slider as manynhere so maybe Im missing something.?
I have been using a older Altendorf f45 now for the last 8 months at work ona daily basis and I just can¡¯t see why one would ever want to remove it?
I ask because I have a small basement shop much like David¡¯s and a slider will be making its way in over the next year so this conversation is very interesting to me..
Thank you and congrats on the new purchase. Very exciting for all us machinery nerds... On Thursday, January 11, 2018, Bellsouth ?dohertyj@...?[felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote: ?David,
Did you read Lucky¡¯s post about his feeder starting and stopping with the spindle?
Joe in New Orleans
This is confusing to me. ? How do you get the Comatic feeder to automatically start running when power is applied to it? ? If I start my Comatic feeder, unplug it, then plug it back in, it powers back up on the OFF mode and I have to press the start switch on the feeder again to get it running - which is the way it should be for safety purposes.. ? So I seriously doubt John¡¯s feeder starts running by itself when the shaper spindle switch is depressed.
Having the power to the PF unavailable if the shaper motor is not running would drive me nuts - setting up the feeder to track accurately is trial and error and I usually test the feeder tracking setup without the spindle turning until I¡¯m certain it¡¯s aligned properly. ??
David Best
?
Gary,
That is interesting.
There must be options that can be set.
I think John Ferandin¡¯s Profile 45z has a time delay then starts the feeder after the spindle is started and then the feeder stops when the spindle stops.?
I never hooked my feeder to the shaper plug because I did not want to the feeder to start and stop this way.
Joe in New Orleans
|
My guess is for people that are tight on space, In my case I don't expect to need to remove it as I have plenty of space however I might see the need to take it off if im going to do a lot of straight line ripping or general ripping because I might see that the outrigger could be awkward to walk around. but then I don't really know as I haven't used my machine yet. I will know soon.
Glen
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: patrick walsh pwalsh651@... [felder-woodworking]
To: felder-woodworking
Sent: Thu, Jan 11, 2018 6:07 pm
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] KF 700 SP options
?
Not my thread but may I ask why one would want to remove the outrigger table and fennec on a slider.
I don¡¯t have as much experience ona slider as manynhere so maybe Im missing something.?
I have been using a older Altendorf f45 now for the last 8 months at work ona daily basis and I just can¡¯t see why one would ever want to remove it?
I ask because I have a small basement shop much like David¡¯s and a slider will be making its way in over the next year so this conversation is very interesting to me..
Thank you and congrats on the new purchase. Very exciting for all us machinery nerds...
On Thursday, January 11, 2018, Bellsouth dohertyj@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
David,
Did you read Lucky¡¯s post about his feeder starting and stopping with the spindle?
Joe in New Orleans
This is confusing to me. ? How do you get the Comatic feeder to automatically start running when power is applied to it? ? If I start my Comatic feeder, unplug it, then plug it back in, it powers back up on the OFF mode and I have to press the start switch on the feeder again to get it running - which is the way it should be for safety purposes.. ? So I seriously doubt John¡¯s feeder starts running by itself when the shaper spindle switch is depressed.
Having the power to the PF unavailable if the shaper motor is not running would drive me nuts - setting up the feeder to track accurately is trial and error and I usually test the feeder tracking setup without the spindle turning until I¡¯m certain it¡¯s aligned properly. ??
David Best
?
Gary,
That is interesting.
There must be options that can be set.
I think John Ferandin¡¯s Profile 45z has a time delay then starts the feeder after the spindle is started and then the feeder stops when the spindle stops.?
I never hooked my feeder to the shaper plug because I did not want to the feeder to start and stop this way.
Joe in New Orleans
|
I did, and I don¡¯t believe it. ? His feeder may be tied into the main power switch on the Profil, but I don¡¯t see how the feeder can be configured to power on when the spindle motor is actuated. ? Maybe there¡¯s some hack to the Comatic feeder that allows it to start up in the RUN position, but I have my doubts.
David Best
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David,
Did you read Lucky¡¯s post about his feeder starting and stopping with the spindle?
Joe in New Orleans
This is confusing to me. ? How do you get the Comatic feeder to automatically start running when power is applied to it? ? If I start my Comatic feeder, unplug it, then plug it back in, it powers back up on the OFF mode and I have to press the start switch on the feeder again to get it running - which is the way it should be for safety purposes.. ? So I seriously doubt John¡¯s feeder starts running by itself when the shaper spindle switch is depressed.
Having the power to the PF unavailable if the shaper motor is not running would drive me nuts - setting up the feeder to track accurately is trial and error and I usually test the feeder tracking setup without the spindle turning until I¡¯m certain it¡¯s aligned properly. ??
David Best
?
Gary,
That is interesting.
There must be options that can be set.
I think John Ferandin¡¯s Profile 45z has a time delay then starts the feeder after the spindle is started and then the feeder stops when the spindle stops.?
I never hooked my feeder to the shaper plug because I did not want to the feeder to start and stop this way.
Joe in New Orleans
|
Given what David said about the dust extractor position for 49" clearance to the right of the blade, I might as well stay with the 49" rip capacity option.? One of the pluses of this machine is the ability? to process full-size sheet goods.??
You don¡¯t have to have a 49¡± rip fence to cut to the center of a 4x8 panel, but you do need to have the overhead support post at the 49¡± position (which is how my Kappa is configured). I looked at David's pictures.? David, you have the mitre indexing system.? Is that Option 170 or 173?? Do you find it useful and simple to use?? It looks complicated from the pictures and catalog.? I cannot tell if it can be used accurately.??
I have the ¡°Mitre index scale with length compensation¡± option?430-26041 on the quote. ?On the Felder web site for the KF700, it¡¯s referred to as option 173. ? I have a number of comments about this option. ? 1 - yes, it is accurate - both in angle settings and compensating for length. ? 2 - it is cumbersome to use with the digital crosscut fence because that fence is so heavy and awkward to reposition. ? That option makes more sense to me in conjunction with the simpler, lighter weight analog crosscut fence. ? The process of using the indexing system is as follows: ?unlock the lever that clamps the fence to the outrigger table, push the fence toward the blade to disengage it from the 90-degree index stop, move the fence to the desired angle as you also continue to push the fence toward the blade, once at the desired index stop, push the fence into the index detent, then re-lock the fence to the outrigger table. ?3 - only selected and commonly used angles index with length compensation - you can set any arbitrary angle of course, but length compensation will be wrong and you¡¯ll need some other method to know you¡¯re on the target angle. ?
Because of the cumbersome nature of this setup, Felder developed an option for the outrigger called the Outrigger X-Roll table - essentially putting the crosscut fence on it¡¯s own linear actuator which also includes a digital readout of the angle, and positioning can be fine adjusted with a rotating wheel. ?Lucky has this option and I wish it¡¯s what I ordered. ? To get length compensation with the X-Roll outrigger table, another option must be added that communicates between the digital crosscut stops and the DRO on the X-Roll linear actuator. ?But so far as I know, the outrigger X-Roll option is only available on the Kappa 400 series. ? You might ask if they¡¯ll do a special for you since there is absolutely no physical reason why the X-Roll outrigger couldn¡¯t be configured onto a 700 - it¡¯s just a marketing contrivance that it¡¯s not listed as available on the 700 so you¡¯ll up-sell to the Kappa.
The other indexing option available for the 700 is "Precision miter unit with pin locating system for outrigger table crosscut fence¡± or option 170 on the Felder web site is not worth having. ? I had it on my K975, and it¡¯s not accurate and just as difficult to use as option 173.
I don¡¯t do a lot of mitered cuts using the crosscut fence. ? So feel like I wasted the extra $1,000 they get for option 173. ? Your situation may be different. ? Additionally, I found the indexing peg that sticks down from the bottom of the crosscut fence to be an annoyance as it complicates position of the fence to an odd angle, so I removed the peg and thereby disabled the utility of the miter indexing system. ? Option 173 absolutely can not be added in the field - it¡¯s calibrated with custom jigs at the factory, so if you ever think you¡¯ll want it, order it with the machine. I recall reading that the KF 700 SP should be specified at time of order to configure it to be able to use a grooving/dado cutter without removal of the scoring blade.? Can someone elaborate on this?? This information is not in the catalog or at Felder website.??
This is news to me if you¡¯re talking about a Felder dado set. ? That set is 228mm diameter, and I know for a fact that you can have a 250mm saw blade along with the scoring saw blade mounted. ? The conflict with having to remove the scoring saw blade occurs when the saw blade is larger than 250mm but I don¡¯t know the current limit. ? I believe there is an undocumented option to allow 350mm saw blades on the machine without CE certification. ?I would love to learn more about this, so if you dig to the bottom of it, please post here.
Once again, thanks for your guidance.??
SW
|
Not my thread but may I ask why one would want to remove the outrigger table and fennec on a slider.
I don¡¯t have as much experience ona slider as manynhere so maybe Im missing something.?
I have been using a older Altendorf f45 now for the last 8 months at work ona daily basis and I just can¡¯t see why one would ever want to remove it?
I ask because I have a small basement shop much like David¡¯s and a slider will be making its way in over the next year so this conversation is very interesting to me..
Thank you and congrats on the new purchase. Very exciting for all us machinery nerds...
On Thursday, January 11, 2018, Bellsouth dohertyj@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
David,
Did you read Lucky¡¯s post about his feeder starting and stopping with the spindle?
Joe in New Orleans
This is confusing to me. ? How do you get the Comatic feeder to automatically start running when power is applied to it? ? If I start my Comatic feeder, unplug it, then plug it back in, it powers back up on the OFF mode and I have to press the start switch on the feeder again to get it running - which is the way it should be for safety purposes.. ? So I seriously doubt John¡¯s feeder starts running by itself when the shaper spindle switch is depressed.
Having the power to the PF unavailable if the shaper motor is not running would drive me nuts - setting up the feeder to track accurately is trial and error and I usually test the feeder tracking setup without the spindle turning until I¡¯m certain it¡¯s aligned properly. ??
David Best
?
Gary,
That is interesting.
There must be options that can be set.
I think John Ferandin¡¯s Profile 45z has a time delay then starts the feeder after the spindle is started and then the feeder stops when the spindle stops.?
I never hooked my feeder to the shaper plug because I did not want to the feeder to start and stop this way.
Joe in New Orleans
|
Many of the members here gave the same advice when I bought my KF700s in December 2016. I followed 95% of it, and I wish I had followed more. Had this group not existed, I would have serious buyers remorse at this point. I can¡¯t thank them enough.?
I didn¡¯t order the telescoping digital fence, just the single left hand version. If you have the funds, don¡¯t expect to remove the fence often, and have the budget, then go for it. Only time will tell if I¡¯ll regret it.?
I would definitely skip the right hand digital stop. Once David releases the digital F&F setup, I can¡¯t see when you would prefer the Felder stop. The F&F can cut pieces less than an inch, and with better accuracy due to the forward and rear stops. Seems like a no brainer.?
Rangate tooling is very expensive, but you get what you pay for. They stock tooling in 1.25¡±, but can make cutters in 30mm (which is what I have). I would get the Felder 125mm rebate cutter to start. It¡¯s cheap and useful. Like you, I¡¯ve never used a shaper before. I¡¯m seriously considering taking the Alpine shaper course offered through Rangate later this year. I¡¯ll order additional tooling from them once I¡¯ve acquired some knowledge and hands on experience. Buying $10,000 in tooling up front, only to realize you need $2,000 worth to do 99% of your work is a bad investment. FYI, the Felder dado set can be used on the shaper. So you¡¯ll be starting with a limited depth adjustable ?groover/tenon cutter day 1.?
Felder does make a 3700mm slider, but it requires an additional leg. The general consensus was to skip that option unless you really need it.
Save some money for a pair of Mac¡¯s air clamps. Almost a required accessory.?
I¡¯m 99% sold on the Comatic DC70 feeder. It¡¯s a 7 wheel unit. That sounds crazy, but each wheel is 60mm vs 120mm on the 3-4 wheel models. They are also packed closer together. The overall length from the start of the first wheel to the end of the last is 17¡±, which is actually smaller that the 4 wheel. I¡¯ve been told it¡¯s also a hair lighter. I¡¯m working to set up a call with a gentleman who owns the 4 and 7 wheel versions. I¡¯ll pass on what I learn.?
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On Jan 11, 2018, at 7:42 PM, vnh84@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
Thanks Joe, David, Lucky, Mark and Gary.? Your replies have been tremendously helpful and informative.
Given testimonies from David and Lucky, I will just order the standard digital stops with one of the two stops on the telescoping arm.? Adding it later is difficult it sounds; much easier to add the 604-118 digital stop in the future.??
I will ask Liz to change the spindle moulder size to 30mm.? From what I gather from exploring Rangate website, the money is in the tooling.? The machine cost pales in comparison.? A window tooling set costs 12K USD!!!? I have not used a shaper ever.? It is one of the few machines that I find intimidating and dangerous, yet so capable.? So, I am educating myself about shaper, Aigner, tooling, etc.??
I am waiting for Liz to quote me the cost to upgrade to the 10 HP motor.? Given the advise here, I will probably stay with the 7.4 HP motor and will have some overhead room for the PP 330.
Given what David said about the dust extractor position for 49" clearance to the right of the blade, I might as well stay with the 49" rip capacity option.? One of the pluses of this machine is the ability? to process full-size sheet goods.??
If anything I learn from the forum, it's the length of the slider.? Get the longest!? Fortunately, I have more than enough room for the 3200mm slider.??
I looked at David's pictures.? David, you have the mitre indexing system.? Is that Option 170 or 173?? Do you find it useful and simple to use?? It looks complicated from the pictures and catalog.? I cannot tell if it can be used accurately.??
I recall reading that the KF 700 SP should be specified at time of order to configure it to be able to use a grooving/dado cutter without removal of the scoring blade.? Can someone elaborate on this?? This information is not in the catalog or at Felder website.??
Once again, thanks for your guidance.??
SW
|
David,
Did you read Lucky¡¯s post about his feeder starting and stopping with the spindle?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
This is confusing to me. ? How do you get the Comatic feeder to automatically start running when power is applied to it? ? If I start my Comatic feeder, unplug it, then plug it back in, it powers back up on the OFF mode and I have to press the start switch on the feeder again to get it running - which is the way it should be for safety purposes. ? So I seriously doubt John¡¯s feeder starts running by itself when the shaper spindle switch is depressed.
Having the power to the PF unavailable if the shaper motor is not running would drive me nuts - setting up the feeder to track accurately is trial and error and I usually test the feeder tracking setup without the spindle turning until I¡¯m certain it¡¯s aligned properly. ??
David Best
?
Gary,
That is interesting.
There must be options that can be set.
I think John Ferandin¡¯s Profile 45z has a time delay then starts the feeder after the spindle is started and then the feeder stops when the spindle stops.?
I never hooked my feeder to the shaper plug because I did not want to the feeder to start and stop this way.
Joe in New Orleans
|
Joe Jensen
Mark Foster
David P. Best