Re: K500 blade height adjustment with Felder Dial indicator for system handwheels
Yes, but,,,, the machine has to be stopped to make gage block adjustments.? The other thing I did not mention is a dro works in inches, my preferred system. ? ?
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From: airtightclamps@... [mailto:airtightclamps@...]
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2020 9:25 AM
To: [email protected]; david.hawxhurst@...; 'Bill James'; jonathan.smith@...
Subject: Re: [FOG] K500 blade height adjustment with Felder Dial indicator for system handwheels? What i use is gauge blocks or shaper bushing example 10 mm deep,,,, take 10mm high shaper bushing zero to top dead center and makes no difference what diameter is do same on shaper for height and depth.? On Saturday, February 15, 2020, 11:08:10 AM CST, Jonathan Smith <jonathan.smith@...> wrote: I have a height gage but would like to have the hand wheel version height indicator so that I could make changes on the fly similar to setting stops on a fence.? Fast.? The down side is that it has to be re-stet ?to each blade diameter so not convenient to my 200mm ?dado and 315mm combo (or mental math can be calculated at a certain risk). ?And then there is the worm gear backlash to deal with.? A much better set up would be a dro mounted on the trunion as in the Power Drive version.? The one I have on the shaper spindle is very handy.? It can be re-zero'ed at any position.? I also use the one on the planer but it is not as accurate so confirm final thickness with a caliper. ? And then there is the problem with my calipers coming out of tune because I dropped them too many times.? And then there is my bi-focals.? I would love to have a big red read out and zero button. ? Jon S ? ? Curious as why you would need/want to have this? I use a height gauge for setting dado blade height its quick and easy. Well maybe not quite as fast as built in gauge.
Would some sort of aftermarket DRO gauge work? Wixely come to mind as one of the least expensive ones.
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Re: K500 blade height adjustment with Felder Dial indicator for system handwheels
What i use is gauge blocks or shaper bushing example 10 mm deep,,,, take 10mm high shaper bushing zero to top dead center and makes no difference what diameter is do same on shaper for height and depth.? mac,,,
On Saturday, February 15, 2020, 11:08:10 AM CST, Jonathan Smith <jonathan.smith@...> wrote:
I have a height gage but would like to have the hand wheel version height indicator so that I could make changes on the fly similar to setting stops on a fence.? Fast.? The down side is that it has to be re-stet ?to each blade diameter so not convenient to my 200mm ?dado and 315mm combo (or mental math can be calculated at a certain risk). ?And then there is the worm gear backlash to deal with.? A much better set up would be a dro mounted on the trunion as in the Power Drive version.? The one I have on the shaper spindle is very handy.? It can be re-zero'ed at any position.? I also use the one on the planer but it is not as accurate so confirm final thickness with a caliper. ? And then there is the problem with my calipers coming out of tune because I dropped them too many times.? And then there is my bi-focals.? I would love to have a big red read out and zero button. ? Jon S ?
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2020 7:52 AM
To: Bill James; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] K500 blade height adjustment with Felder Dial indicator for system handwheels ? Curious as why you would need/want to have this? I use a height gauge for setting dado blade height its quick and easy. Well maybe not quite as fast as built in gauge.
Would some sort of aftermarket DRO gauge work? Wixely come to mind as one of the least expensive ones.
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Re: K500 blade height adjustment with Felder Dial indicator for system handwheels
I have a height gage but would like to have the hand wheel version height indicator so that I could make changes on the fly similar to setting stops on a fence.? Fast.? The down side is that it has to be re-stet ?to each blade diameter so not convenient to my 200mm ?dado and 315mm combo (or mental math can be calculated at a certain risk). ?And then there is the worm gear backlash to deal with.? A much better set up would be a dro mounted on the trunion as in the Power Drive version.? The one I have on the shaper spindle is very handy.? It can be re-zero'ed at any position.? I also use the one on the planer but it is not as accurate so confirm final thickness with a caliper. ? And then there is the problem with my calipers coming out of tune because I dropped them too many times.? And then there is my bi-focals.? I would love to have a big red read out and zero button. ? Jon S ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2020 7:52 AM
To: Bill James; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] K500 blade height adjustment with Felder Dial indicator for system handwheels? Curious as why you would need/want to have this? I use a height gauge for setting dado blade height its quick and easy. Well maybe not quite as fast as built in gauge.
Would some sort of aftermarket DRO gauge work? Wixely come to mind as one of the least expensive ones.
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Re: K500 blade height adjustment with Felder Dial indicator for system handwheels
On Sat, Feb 15, 2020 at 10:47 AM, Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression wrote:
If with a slider I would zero off slider?
I thought about this method but I was not sure I can really get the zero correct. I will definitively try. Thanks, Bill
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Re: K500 blade height adjustment with Felder Dial indicator for system handwheels
With saw take your dial indicator or a block and touch the high point of the blade at zero . Set the dial at zero and that’s it you want to do a 10 mm deep cut it will be 10 . If with a slider I would zero off slider? Designing and building for 47 years
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On Feb 15, 2020, at 10:41 AM, Bill James via Groups.Io <xxrb2010@...> wrote:
?Glad, I asked the question, I learn something.
David, I thought the dial is less cumbersome that any gauge for which I need to figure out the apex of the blade tooth. With a dial, you turn it correctly, as Mac said, and you stop when the reading is correct. To set i tup, you do a test cu, measure with a dial caliper on your test piece, adjust the dial and you are done for a long time.
With a gauge you need to do the adjustment every time as I am currently doing with my dial caliper. Unless there is something I am missing.
Bill
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Re: K500 blade height adjustment with Felder Dial indicator for system handwheels
Glad, I asked the question, I learn something.
David, I thought the dial is less cumbersome that any gauge for which I need to figure out the apex of the blade tooth. With a dial, you turn it correctly, as Mac said, and you stop when the reading is correct. To set i tup, you do a test cu, measure with a dial caliper on your test piece, adjust the dial and you are done for a long time.
With a gauge you need to do the adjustment every time as I am currently doing with my dial caliper. Unless there is something I am missing.
Bill
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Re: K500 blade height adjustment with Felder Dial indicator for system handwheels
The dial should be accurate as long as you always adjust against the screw. So as example if you are adjusting up against the play in the screw, you can’t adjust down and expect the dial to be accurate,.you have to go down and than back up. All adjustments work the same way on any machine that has a dial. Mac,,, Designing and building for 47 years
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On Feb 14, 2020, at 10:01 PM, Bill James via Groups.Io <xxrb2010@...> wrote:
?I do have this dial indicator for an A31 and find it useful and wonder if it really works on a K500 for the blade height.
Let me explain:
The OEM handwheels for a K500 blade height is not fixed to the arbor as you need to remove it to lock the blade angle adjustment. There is a lot of play when you turn the wheel due to the fact that the wheel is not lock. Thus, I do not see how useful the dial indicator with the ALU wheel can be as long as this play is present.
If anyone has use the dial indicator with the ALU wheel for the blade height adjustment can shim in that would be nice. So far, I use a oneway gauge and dial indicator, but this is laborious overtime as I need to get the zenith of the blade tooth to get the proper measurement. I am looking for a more permanent setup for which you adjust one time and use it many many times.
Thanks,
Bill
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Re: K500 blade height adjustment with Felder Dial indicator for system handwheels
Curious as why you would need/want to have this? I use a height gauge for setting dado blade height its quick and easy. Well maybe not quite as fast as built in gauge.
Would some sort of aftermarket DRO gauge work? Wixely come to mind as one of the least expensive ones.
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Re: Radial Drill Press purchase
Thanks for the info David D, Did not know Michael was still around, he is very particular and been making his fences for a long time. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy his products. time true and tested. Mac,,, Designing and building for 47 years
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On Feb 14, 2020, at 8:19 PM, David Davies <myfinishingtouch@...> wrote:
? I stumbled across Mike's site when watching some Sam Blasco videos.
?
Dave Davies?
On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 8:16 PM joelgelman via Groups.Io <joelgelman= [email protected]> wrote: David, thanks for the feedback. I am familiar with that unit.? What I like most about a radial drill press is the fact that the table does not move.? I want to be able to set the height of the table flush with surrounding work surfaces and to better setup my fence and stops.? I like the idea of being able to have more distance from the column as a bonus. ? I believe that the vintage machines are better made than the new ones.?
I hope I like it better than the conventional drill press.? I will find out!
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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Re: Radial Drill Press purchase
Hi Joel,? Make darn sure the seller tightens all handles and be sure to check before you unload ?if and handle is not locked they are a very unstable load and could end up on the ground. Mac,,, Designing and building for 47 years
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On Feb 14, 2020, at 8:16 PM, joelgelman via Groups.Io <joelgelman@...> wrote:
?David, thanks for the feedback. I am familiar with that unit. ?What I like most about a radial drill press is the fact that the table does not move. ?I want to be able to set the height of the table flush with surrounding work surfaces and to better setup my fence and stops. ?I like the idea of being able to have more distance from the column as a bonus. ? I believe that the vintage machines are better made than the new ones.?
I hope I like it better than the conventional drill press. ?I will find out!
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ACM makes two series, the lighter Star series are sized 400,500,600 etc.? The heavier series ( the one you want ) are sized 440,540,640,740 etc.? Centauro has always made saws sized similar to the Star but much heavier.? Since Minimax has changed their numbering
to the larger 440,540,640 series, it is believed they now source them from ACM.? I don't have confirmation other than the machine has changed and looks like an ACM rather than Centauro, but Felder isn't good about disclosing where there FB series is sourced
either.? The previous MM S500 had a stiffer frame than the ACM 540 but at larger sizes both were strong enough to tension out 1" carbide.? Bridgewood also used to import ACM under their name and they can be found on the used market.? Aggazani are gone but
their designs were sold to Panhans who are making saws but I don't know if they are available here in US.? The older Aggi had a light trunnion but later models replaced that.? They were nicely made, perhaps a little lighter than the Centauro.? Both ACM and
Centauro are a little rough on the fit and finish but that is common for Italian machines.? Dave
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So there is no way to adjust/shim the guide column? I thought I saw that it could be done on an mm20, of course different saw but I assumed it would be that way on any of the larger bandsaws. Glad I didn’t pull the trigger on the fb510 i was
looking at, I will be going with the mm20 or as David recommends ACM...?
Regards, Mark
On Feb 15, 2020, at 1:52 AM, "david@..." <david@...> wrote:
?I totally agree with James. ?Felder is not best of breed when it comes to bandsaws. ? Seek out an Italian alternative. ? Felder used to OEM the ACM, but no longer does so.
The more you tighten this knob, the more the blade is deflected sideways and tracking goes to hell on the Hammer N4400 and the FB510/610’s I’ve seen. ? Stick with an ACM-made unit if you can.
Bill,
Since FB510 does not meet your expectations, sell it and buy a different brand maybe MiniMax / SCM.
You have Kappa slider, I think you should pair your?Kappa with a better bandsaw :)
James
On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 11:58 PM Bill Bélanger < bllblngr@...> wrote:
I agree James, it’s just that I really like the bandsaw and this one is not performing. I’m hoping that it’s just me that can not fine tune this machine.?
At least, I do not know. IMO, the bandsaw is not really a precision machine,
James
Is there not a way to adjust the parallelism of the post??
Regards, Mark
?
I have to say the post is not 100% parallel in the whole range. Tightening the knob definitely tilts the steel post slightly.
James?
But is the post through the whole range parallel?
Regards, Mark
?
Mark,
There is not too much room to adjust the ceramic?guide after the knob is overtightened. Yes, the ceramic guide is parallel to the blade.
Slightly tightening the knob does not affect the quality of the cut.
James
Adjusting the guides after the knob is tightened doesn’t work? Is the guide parallel ?to the blade??
Regards, Mark
?
Jay,
I am not sure what you mean about the upper guide clamp.
What I found is over-tightening the knob in the picture below pushes the steel guide with the attached ceramic guide to the left, which pushes the blade to the left. So I make sure not to overtighten the knob.?
On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 9:03 PM jay bodnar < jbod@...> wrote:
After changing the wheel, bearings, tire, etc... the only thing that improved the vibration was to not tighten the upper guide clamp.? The recorded video posted was with the clamp tight. ? It is far less when you loosen the screw. ? The tech said that he would
check for this on the one they had in the shop and later responded that it was the same. ??
The performance is barely acceptable and will live it for the time being.? It is a good thing I have a drum sander.?
I am glad to hear that you do not have the problem, I wish I could figure out the problem. ? The technician and I worked on the bandsaw for 8 hours, no success.
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John, curious the vintage of your FB600, and it if was made by ACM, or is a Felder clone. ?
As for the blade?guide support post, I have seen a couple of iterations of the design that clamps that post in position. ? Some designs lock the height of that?guide support post?consistently (usually an ACM machine with Felder name on it), whereas the Felder clones are missing a component in the locking system that ensures the locked column consistently returns to the same axial position.
Here is a video of my own N4400 behavior as the guide post locking knob is tightened - the harder the locking knob is turned, the more the shaft (and the blade guides) rotate: ??
Looking closer into the mechanism, here is what I found on my N4400 and have seen the same issue on Felder-manufactured FB510’s. ? The locking knob presses against the vertical guide post that holds the blade guides. ? The knob drives the post against the pinion gear that raises and lowers the guide post. ?The elevation post is sandwiched between the locking knob and the pinion gear used to run the blade guide post up/down. ? And that pinion gear flexes because it is not supported on the back side. ? The harder you tighten the securing knob, the more pressure is applied to the pinion gear shaft, distorting it sideways. ? If that pinion gear shaft were supported on it’s far end, the design would be more rigid and the blade guides would orient consistently when the post is locked down. ? I sent this design modification suggestion to Felder, got no reply.
I removed the elevation system to get a look at the design since it’s inside a boxed-in section of the frame. ? Here is what it looks like on the N4400.
Make sure to torque down on these three bolts to minimize the deflection and rotation of the blade guide support post.
David Best
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Actually the Bandsaw can be turned into an extremely precise machine which most of us doing resawing have achieved. I get less than .002" difference from top to bottom of a typical 8" to 12" resaw with a Woodmaster CT. I got an early FB600 that came from the factory with pretty well everything out of adjustment. The column you are discussing is the key to getting a precision cut and is the biggest pain the as to align. It has to be setup so its completely parallel and plumb through its whole range of travel with the knob tightened securely. If this isn't achieved you're pissing in the wind. It took me 4 hours the first time but the adjustment has stayed in place. You can only adjust the ceramic or any guides after this is done. I don't use those Felder ceramics and have Laguna's which IMHO are far superior and easier to adjust.
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Thanks for confirming what I thought, all the it’s not a precise machine, lack of understanding that column needs to be parallel and plumb was confusing me, but to be fair it’s easy for me to get confused... Regards, Mark
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On Feb 15, 2020, at 7:58 AM, jmkserv@... wrote:
? Actually the Bandsaw can be turned into an extremely precise machine which most of us doing resawing have achieved. I get less than .002" difference from top to bottom of a typical 8" to 12" resaw with a Woodmaster CT. I got an early FB600 that came from the factory with pretty well everything out of adjustment. The column you are discussing is the key to getting a precision cut and is the biggest pain the as to align. It has to be setup so its completely parallel and plumb through its whole range of travel with the knob tightened securely. If this isn't achieved you're pissing in the wind. It took me 4 hours the first time but the adjustment has stayed in place. You can only adjust the ceramic or any guides after this is done. I don't use those Felder ceramics and have Laguna's which IMHO are far superior and easier to adjust.
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Actually the Bandsaw can be turned into an extremely precise machine which most of us doing resawing have achieved. I get less than .002" difference from top to bottom of a typical 8" to 12" resaw with a Woodmaster CT. I got an early FB600 that came from the factory with pretty well everything out of adjustment. The column you are discussing is the key to getting a precision cut and is the biggest pain the as to align. It has to be setup so its completely parallel and plumb through its whole range of travel with the knob tightened securely. If this isn't achieved you're pissing in the wind. It took me 4 hours the first time but the adjustment has stayed in place. You can only adjust the ceramic or any guides after this is done. I don't use those Felder ceramics and have Laguna's which IMHO are far superior and easier to adjust.
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Liam,?
Very nice. ?What kind of projects will you use the AD951 to make?
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On Feb 15, 2020, at 6:53 AM, We eat the sun <we.eat.the.sun@...> wrote:
? Arrived Thursday, it’s really quite a machine, very impressive.
Cheers,
Liam
<12160A8D-B46D-4E56-BAA9-5D46DF9583C6.jpeg> <B274B8CF-ACB8-4B04-8F54-D424E00F3558.jpeg>
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? Sweet, you will be glad you got the segmented pressure bar (or whatever the hell they call it) no squealing pig noise from the sheet steel pressure shoe? Regards, Mark
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On Feb 15, 2020, at 6:53 AM, We eat the sun <we.eat.the.sun@...> wrote:
? Arrived Thursday, it’s really quite a machine, very impressive.
Cheers,
Liam
<12160A8D-B46D-4E56-BAA9-5D46DF9583C6.jpeg> <B274B8CF-ACB8-4B04-8F54-D424E00F3558.jpeg>
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Thats pretty slick Murry. Regards, Mark
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On Feb 15, 2020, at 4:01 AM, murrayau1 <murraywp@...> wrote:
? Below is a picture of my home-made overhead guard. I was mainly motivated by dust extraction, I recently upgraded to an AF 160 and with the main dust hose attached to the saw it has heaps of extra capacity which I wanted to use on their overhead guard. I found with the original guard and its small diameter dust port nothing other than a vacuum cleaner would work.
My guard has a simple telescoping up down mechanism using a kip lever, and the whole arm can pivot completely out of the way when required.
So far appears to be working well, it was cheap and? to build but was quite a bit of work.
Murray
<IMG_8173.jpg>
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So there is no way to adjust/shim the guide column? I thought I saw that it could be done on an mm20, of course different saw but I assumed it would be that way on any of the larger bandsaws. Glad I didn’t pull the trigger on the fb510 i was looking at, I will be going with the mm20 or as David recommends ACM...? Regards, Mark
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On Feb 15, 2020, at 1:52 AM, "david@..." <david@...> wrote:
? I totally agree with James. ?Felder is not best of breed when it comes to bandsaws. ? Seek out an Italian alternative. ? Felder used to OEM the ACM, but no longer does so.
The more you tighten this knob, the more the blade is deflected sideways and tracking goes to hell on the Hammer N4400 and the FB510/610’s I’ve seen. ? Stick with an ACM-made unit if you can.
Bill,
Since FB510 does not meet your expectations, sell it and buy a different brand maybe MiniMax / SCM.
You have Kappa slider, I think you should pair your?Kappa with a better bandsaw :)
James
On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 11:58 PM Bill Bélanger < bllblngr@...> wrote: I agree James, it’s just that I really like the bandsaw and this one is not performing. I’m hoping that it’s just me that can not fine tune this machine.? At least, I do not know. IMO, the bandsaw is not really a precision machine,
James Is there not a way to adjust the parallelism of the post?? Regards, Mark ? I have to say the post is not 100% parallel in the whole range. Tightening the knob definitely tilts the steel post slightly.
James? But is the post through the whole range parallel? Regards, Mark ? Mark,
There is not too much room to adjust the ceramic?guide after the knob is overtightened. Yes, the ceramic guide is parallel to the blade.
Slightly tightening the knob does not affect the quality of the cut.
James Adjusting the guides after the knob is tightened doesn’t work? Is the guide parallel ?to the blade?? Regards, Mark ? Jay,
I am not sure what you mean about the upper guide clamp.
What I found is over-tightening the knob in the picture below pushes the steel guide with the attached ceramic guide to the left, which pushes the blade to the left. So I make sure not to overtighten the knob.?
On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 9:03 PM jay bodnar < jbod@...> wrote: After changing the wheel, bearings, tire, etc... the only thing that improved the vibration was to not tighten the upper guide clamp.? The recorded video posted was with the clamp tight. ? It is far less when you loosen the screw. ? The tech said that he would check for this on the one they had in the shop and later responded that it was the same. ??
The performance is barely acceptable and will live it for the time being.? It is a good thing I have a drum sander.?
I am glad to hear that you do not have the problem, I wish I could figure out the problem. ? The technician and I worked on the bandsaw for 8 hours, no success.
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Arrived Thursday, it’s really quite a machine, very impressive.
Cheers,
Liam
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Thanks for the replies lads, will take a look later.
Guessed it was probably something I had done wrong. Thanks again.
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Jonathan Smith
David
David P. Best
