Re: Felder 500-03-019 dado blade how to use
It would be better if Felder gave better instructions. At first I thought you could flip the one side to the outer side. But that¡¯s why I asked. Thanks for your help.
On Monday, March 8, 2021, 10:08:13 AM EST, Cliff Rohrabacher, Esq. <rohrabacher@...> wrote:
I just put the shims between the segments to get the? kerf
thickness I want.
I modified my cutter set so that I can assemble it? with all the
components so as to get a larger kerf.
On 3/7/21 4:40 PM, Doug Middlebrook via
groups.io wrote:
I bought the dado blade 3 years ago and just went to use it but I
did not get any shims, not sure it should have them. Been on line
and see shims but no real instructions. I only bought the 8-15 mm.
Does anyone have paper instructions. I must be getting old. Lol It
is supposed to be adjustable. If I leave it together I get the
8mm. I think it might be an easy answer. ? Thanks Doug
|
Re: Boring techniques and jigs for passage doors
If it¡¯s just one batch of doors, there¡¯s nothing wrong with measuring and marking centers, drilling a small pilot hole through the door, then drilling with a 2 1/8¡±?forstner bit, drilling most of the way through one face, then flipping over to finish from the other side. Then a 1¡± forstner on the edge. You can make a simple template for routing?the faceplate, or buy one. The jigs are great for helping you drill?parallel to the edge and perpendicular to the face, but if you¡¯re careful, you¡¯ll be fine. The trickier one is the edge bore, especially if you¡¯re doing 1 3/8¡± thick doors, but even then it¡¯s not that deep of a cut to where you risk going too far off track.?I stopped using the jigs years ago because they seemed like they took more time to set up and mess with. But I only ever had the cheap plastic ones.? -Shawn
On Monday, March 8, 2021, 9:17 AM, Chris Perren <cperren@...> wrote: I agree the templaco is expensive which I acquired used a decade ago¡ ?Rockler may have a cheaper approach. ?? ? ? I have only used it once almost 2 yrs ago but found that I had to mess with it a bit to ensure the jaws are parallel. The bit was also not sharp but that is not a fault. There is no cushioning on clamp faces but that is normally not a concern with hard wood. It does not offer any alignment aid from door to jamb, so you are working with your markings. Keep in mind that I bought it used so my issue could be due to wear. Once you get used to Festool (generally good quality) it is easy to find fault. I also think $400-$500 (templaco that Chris shared) is a bit much for what you get. On the other hand it did work on my door that was 2.25¡± thick. Are there any other kind available? ? Thanks Imran. It looks like Big Horn makes a similar jig. What do you find it¡¯s shortcomings are?
On Mar 8, 2021, at 9:44 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? I have Kwikset 91380 which is apparently discontinued. I bought it used. It does the job but I cannot say I love it. ?I am planning to build new passage doors for my house and I am curious what methods, machinery, jigs and techniques people use to for boring for locksets.
Thanks in advance,
Michael
|
Re: Boring techniques and jigs for passage doors
I agree the templaco is expensive which I acquired used a decade ago¡ ?Rockler may have a cheaper approach. ?? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of imranindiana via groups.io Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 9:49 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [FOG] Boring techniques and jigs for passage doors ? I have only used it once almost 2 yrs ago but found that I had to mess with it a bit to ensure the jaws are parallel. The bit was also not sharp but that is not a fault. There is no cushioning on clamp faces but that is normally not a concern with hard wood. It does not offer any alignment aid from door to jamb, so you are working with your markings. Keep in mind that I bought it used so my issue could be due to wear. Once you get used to Festool (generally good quality) it is easy to find fault. I also think $400-$500 (templaco that Chris shared) is a bit much for what you get. On the other hand it did work on my door that was 2.25¡± thick. Are there any other kind available? ? Thanks Imran. It looks like Big Horn makes a similar jig. What do you find it¡¯s shortcomings are?
On Mar 8, 2021, at 9:44 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? I have Kwikset 91380 which is apparently discontinued. I bought it used. It does the job but I cannot say I love it. ?I am planning to build new passage doors for my house and I am curious what methods, machinery, jigs and techniques people use to for boring for locksets.
Thanks in advance,
Michael
|
Re: Boring techniques and jigs for passage doors
Thanks for the ideas guys. I think I will make my own jig out of some 8/4 stock. ? Anyone have a big drill press and a fixture set up for that?
Michael
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 8, 2021, at 10:49 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Michael,
I have only used it once almost 2 yrs ago but found that I had to mess with it a bit to ensure the jaws are parallel. The bit was also not sharp but that is not a fault. There is no cushioning on clamp faces but that is normally not a concern with hard wood. It does not offer any alignment aid from door to jamb, so you are working with your markings.
Keep in mind that I bought it used so my issue could be due to wear. Once you get used to Festool (generally good quality) it is easy to find fault. I also think $400-$500 (templaco that Chris shared) is a bit much for what you get.
On the other hand it did work on my door that was 2.25¡± thick.
Are there any other kind available?
Imran
On Mar 8, 2021, at 9:53 AM, Michael Todrin <michaeltodrin@...> wrote:
? Thanks Imran. It looks like Big Horn makes a similar jig. What do you find it¡¯s shortcomings are?
Michael On Mar 8, 2021, at 9:44 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? I have Kwikset 91380 which is apparently discontinued. I bought it used. It does the job but I cannot say I love it. On Mar 8, 2021, at 9:31 AM, Michael Todrin <michaeltodrin@...> wrote:
?I am planning to build new passage doors for my house and I am curious what methods, machinery, jigs and techniques people use to for boring for locksets.
Thanks in advance,
Michael
|
Re: Boring techniques and jigs for passage doors
Michael,
I have only used it once almost 2 yrs ago but found that I had to mess with it a bit to ensure the jaws are parallel. The bit was also not sharp but that is not a fault. There is no cushioning on clamp faces but that is normally not a concern with hard wood. It does not offer any alignment aid from door to jamb, so you are working with your markings.
Keep in mind that I bought it used so my issue could be due to wear. Once you get used to Festool (generally good quality) it is easy to find fault. I also think $400-$500 (templaco that Chris shared) is a bit much for what you get.
On the other hand it did work on my door that was 2.25¡± thick.
Are there any other kind available?
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 8, 2021, at 9:53 AM, Michael Todrin <michaeltodrin@...> wrote: ? Thanks Imran. It looks like Big Horn makes a similar jig. What do you find it¡¯s shortcomings are?
Michael On Mar 8, 2021, at 9:44 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? I have Kwikset 91380 which is apparently discontinued. I bought it used. It does the job but I cannot say I love it. On Mar 8, 2021, at 9:31 AM, Michael Todrin <michaeltodrin@...> wrote:
?I am planning to build new passage doors for my house and I am curious what methods, machinery, jigs and techniques people use to for boring for locksets.
Thanks in advance,
Michael
|
Mark, That is fair.?I just want AJ to be informed so he can make a good decision.
AJ, Hopefully following will help you in understanding what is potentially wrong. I am not suggesting that you should do this on your own based upon concerns Mark voiced but hopefully it will better?prepare you to have an informed conversation with the Felder tech.
I think all that needs done is to disconnect the 2 pin connector and measure the voltage on the 2 pins on the machine side. If there is no voltage the issue is on machine side. We do not expect this to be the case, I suspect you will see voltage, if so, then try running the saw. If I understand correctly there are 2 possible cases but based upon what you shared top one is most likely: - If the saw does not run, the switch on the slider is normally closed. Now measure the two pins on the slider side. These should be shorted. Now press the stop button, the short should disappear. I suspect the short will remain because the compromised insulation is providing this short
- If the saw runs the switch on slider is normally open. Measure the pins on the slider side, they should measure open. Press the stop switch and they should short. If they don¡¯t it is a bad switch.
Imran?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 8, 2021, at 9:43 AM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote: ? Imran I know your offer for help to troubleshoot directly on the machine is well intentioned but AJ, I personally would stick with Felder support to troubleshoot for now - it¡¯s a new machine just delivered, if you start monkeying around without Felders direction it could cause more issues with them covering 100% to your satisfaction, I am speaking from experience as some of you know....?
On Mar 8, 2021, at 9:31 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Hi AJ,
If you like you can call me at 765-210-7645. I am in Indiana EST.
If you can share the electrical schematics (typically in a pouch on the electrical cabinet door) that can speed up the process by removing any ambiguity.
You won¡¯t hurt my feelings if you do not want to avail help. So no worries in that case.
Imran On Mar 7, 2021, at 9:55 PM, AJ Quinter <ajquinter@...> wrote: ? Thanks all for your comments!? I hope to be able to contribute here more in the future when I have a bit more experience to share!
?
Mike ¨C I agree with you that new means new.? I don¡¯t think it is unreasonable to expect that all buttons should work and they should resolve this issue in some manner.
?
Imran ¨C I know little to nothing about how the switching is set up (electrical connections are not my strong suit) other than the start button is battery powered and the stop button has to be ¡°hard wired¡± to comply with European safety standards.?
?
David ¨C As you mention, the saw is fully functional as is.? It certainly doesn¡¯t seem like the end of the world for the remote stop button not to work.? At the same time, I think all of the features on a new saw should function properly.? I would like to determine what a reasonable solution might be that is fair to both parties involved.? If Felder¡¯s only solution is to come and disassemble the sliding table, I have thought about just telling them to forget it and that I would work with it as is.? I am not worried about removing the sliding table from the machine base, but I am concerned about disassembling the sliding table itself.? Maybe this concern is unfounded.
?
Mark ¨C I will take a closer look at the electrical connection as you suggest.? This seemed to be an obvious possible issue at the time, so the tech spent a lot of time looking at it and verified the electrical continuity to the stop button itself and within the electrical panel.? He seemed to feel the plastic housing was cracked, but that there were no other issues.
Thanks again,?
AJ?
|
Re: Boring techniques and jigs for passage doors
Although not used in a while, I¡¯ve been happy with my Templaco bore master jr. ? https://www.templaco.com/html/product.asp?id=225&mode=Bore+Master+Kits ? -Chris ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Cliff Rohrabacher, Esq. Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 9:04 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [FOG] Boring techniques and jigs for passage doors ? I use a square and a hand held power Drill &? hand? chisels On 3/8/21 9:21 AM, Michael Todrin wrote: I am planning to build new passage doors for my house and I am curious what methods, machinery, jigs and techniques people use to for boring for locksets.
Thanks in advance,
Michael
|
Re: Felder 500-03-019 dado blade how to use
I just put the shims between the segments to get the? kerf
thickness I want.
I modified my cutter set so that I can assemble it? with all the
components so as to get a larger kerf.
On 3/7/21 4:40 PM, Doug Middlebrook via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I bought the dado blade 3 years ago and just went to use it but I
did not get any shims, not sure it should have them. Been on line
and see shims but no real instructions. I only bought the 8-15 mm.
Does anyone have paper instructions. I must be getting old. Lol It
is supposed to be adjustable. If I leave it together I get the
8mm. I think it might be an easy answer. ? Thanks Doug
|
Re: Boring techniques and jigs for passage doors
I use a square and a hand held power Drill &? hand? chisels
On 3/8/21 9:21 AM, Michael Todrin
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I am planning to build new passage doors for my house and I am
curious what methods, machinery, jigs and techniques people use to
for boring for locksets.
Thanks in advance,
Michael
|
Re: Boring techniques and jigs for passage doors
Thanks Imran. It looks like Big Horn makes a similar jig. What do you find it¡¯s shortcomings are?
Michael
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 8, 2021, at 9:44 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? I have Kwikset 91380 which is apparently discontinued. I bought it used. It does the job but I cannot say I love it. On Mar 8, 2021, at 9:31 AM, Michael Todrin <michaeltodrin@...> wrote:
?I am planning to build new passage doors for my house and I am curious what methods, machinery, jigs and techniques people use to for boring for locksets.
Thanks in advance,
Michael
|
Re: Boring techniques and jigs for passage doors
I have Kwikset 91380 which is apparently discontinued. I bought it used. It does the job but I cannot say I love it.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 8, 2021, at 9:31 AM, Michael Todrin <michaeltodrin@...> wrote:
?I am planning to build new passage doors for my house and I am curious what methods, machinery, jigs and techniques people use to for boring for locksets.
Thanks in advance,
Michael
|
Imran I know your offer for help to troubleshoot directly on the machine is well intentioned but AJ, I personally would stick with Felder support to troubleshoot for now - it¡¯s a new machine just delivered, if you start monkeying around without Felders direction it could cause more issues with them covering 100% to your satisfaction, I am speaking from experience as some of you know....?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 8, 2021, at 9:31 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Hi AJ,
If you like you can call me at 765-210-7645. I am in Indiana EST.
If you can share the electrical schematics (typically in a pouch on the electrical cabinet door) that can speed up the process by removing any ambiguity.
You won¡¯t hurt my feelings if you do not want to avail help. So no worries in that case.
Imran On Mar 7, 2021, at 9:55 PM, AJ Quinter <ajquinter@...> wrote: ? Thanks all for your comments!? I hope to be able to contribute here more in the future when I have a bit more experience to share!
?
Mike ¨C I agree with you that new means new.? I don¡¯t think it is unreasonable to expect that all buttons should work and they should resolve this issue in some manner.
?
Imran ¨C I know little to nothing about how the switching is set up (electrical connections are not my strong suit) other than the start button is battery powered and the stop button has to be ¡°hard wired¡± to comply with European safety standards.?
?
David ¨C As you mention, the saw is fully functional as is.? It certainly doesn¡¯t seem like the end of the world for the remote stop button not to work.? At the same time, I think all of the features on a new saw should function properly.? I would like to determine what a reasonable solution might be that is fair to both parties involved.? If Felder¡¯s only solution is to come and disassemble the sliding table, I have thought about just telling them to forget it and that I would work with it as is.? I am not worried about removing the sliding table from the machine base, but I am concerned about disassembling the sliding table itself.? Maybe this concern is unfounded.
?
Mark ¨C I will take a closer look at the electrical connection as you suggest.? This seemed to be an obvious possible issue at the time, so the tech spent a lot of time looking at it and verified the electrical continuity to the stop button itself and within the electrical panel.? He seemed to feel the plastic housing was cracked, but that there were no other issues.
Thanks again,?
AJ?
|
Boring techniques and jigs for passage doors
I am planning to build new passage doors for my house and I am curious what methods, machinery, jigs and techniques people use to for boring for locksets.
Thanks in advance,
Michael
|
Hi AJ,
Looks like we are beginning to understand the circuit. If you have a multimeter, I am happy to talk on phone and guide you thru the troubleshooting the issue. I believe, if we understand correctly, it is a simple circuit to troubleshoot.
Look for a private msg with my contact info.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 7, 2021, at 9:55 PM, AJ Quinter <ajquinter@...> wrote: ? Thanks all for your comments!? I hope to be able to contribute here more in the future when I have a bit more experience to share!
?
Mike ¨C I agree with you that new means new.? I don¡¯t think it is unreasonable to expect that all buttons should work and they should resolve this issue in some manner.
?
Imran ¨C I know little to nothing about how the switching is set up (electrical connections are not my strong suit) other than the start button is battery powered and the stop button has to be ¡°hard wired¡± to comply with European safety standards.?
?
David ¨C As you mention, the saw is fully functional as is.? It certainly doesn¡¯t seem like the end of the world for the remote stop button not to work.? At the same time, I think all of the features on a new saw should function properly.? I would like to determine what a reasonable solution might be that is fair to both parties involved.? If Felder¡¯s only solution is to come and disassemble the sliding table, I have thought about just telling them to forget it and that I would work with it as is.? I am not worried about removing the sliding table from the machine base, but I am concerned about disassembling the sliding table itself.? Maybe this concern is unfounded.
?
Mark ¨C I will take a closer look at the electrical connection as you suggest.? This seemed to be an obvious possible issue at the time, so the tech spent a lot of time looking at it and verified the electrical continuity to the stop button itself and within the electrical panel.? He seemed to feel the plastic housing was cracked, but that there were no other issues.
Thanks again,?
AJ?
|
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the details. Best I can summarize is that there is a NC relay in the typical series circuit of stop switches. The coil of this relay has 24V (assuming voltage level) which comes to the NO stop switch on slider. Stop switch grounds 24V upon closure thereby energizing the relay and stopping the saw.
Since there are two wires in the cable, I assume that the ground is routed to the switch instead of using the machine chassis. But it is not isolated from chassis. So reversing the 2 pin connector would short the 24V causing saw to not start.
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 7, 2021, at 9:56 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote: ? Imran, I would have to look but i would suppose there is a nc 24v relay involved to break the power. The right alum rail with the hardened ways (top and bottom) are isolated from the extrusion by being wrapped in a thin plastic sheet and this is the one that carries the 24 volts. The rail on the left has no plastic (top and bottom) and is the ground. The switch on the end of the slide is connected to the top rails and the lower rails are connected to the elect cab and i assume a nc relay when the saw has bower. On Mar 7, 2021, at 8:51 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Mark,
Very helpful info and I know you shared it before but too much info to retain. So how is this circuit wired because reversing wires on a typical stop switch wired in series is not affected by reversing wires?
So it appears that the right and left rails (roller track) are isolated from the main extrusion. Not sure how they do that, aren¡¯t they screwed into extrusion?
Anyhow, I assume the same setup is duplicated on the slider rails and signals finally reach the stop switch.
Imran
On Mar 7, 2021, at 8:37 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? Hi me again, I am such a dip shiz lol, some how I didn¡¯t even notice the pic¡¯s you included... Dude! Totally gota be the plug and it does look like it got ripped off, if you look at the little tabs they look like they have been wrenched on , my money is on the wires being reversed... On Mar 7, 2021, at 8:23 PM, Mark Kessler via groups.io <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? So i just re read your email after i typed the below, i think its your connector to the slider, it is common as its fully exposed during installation and easy to forget. Disconnect it and check to see if the pins are fully extended and one is not pushed in. (Incidentally I work with a lot of servo motors at work being disconnected and reconnected a lot and it is the first thing i check when a motor won¡¯t work, the pin/ getting pushed in slightly, and this is on military type connectors so it happens...)?
When I installed my slider I managed to rip the connector off when I was sliding the extrusion which is easy to do on this design. I ended up reassembling the pins in the reverse which caused the ?same issue you describe, os it possible the tech did this without you seeing it happen? ?Take a close look at the connector to see if there is any damage to it, this is an easy fix by looking at the elec schematic.?
<image0.jpeg> Also take a quick look at where the cable enters the bottom of the extrusion, if it looks good then I would doubt there is a wiring issue inside unless it happened at the factory, bit who knows... <image1.jpeg>
?if you have a meter you could check the continuity from the pin on the connector to the 2 wires on the end of the slide.<image2.jpeg>
The plastic strip on top of the left rail is just there to prevent an accident short from an errent event, if it wasn¡¯t there (or piece missing from damage) it shouldn¡¯t cause an issue in itself, nothing is touching it.?
On Mar 7, 2021, at 7:28 PM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
I agree you need more diagnosis before the panic sets in.? I doubt you will get a new table and given the way of the world, you might not have enough life expectancy to wait for the replacement.? Taking the sliding table off isn't a horrible job if it comes
to that.? The sub base does the adjusting.? If the other off switches work, you should be functional until Felder fixes the problem.? The remote on is the real benefit so if that is working life won't be too bad.? Dave
AJ,
In order to offer any help I need to understand this electrical connection. There should be two wires in the cable unless this stop switch is wired differently then the typical normally closed stop switches on felder machines.
I can understand using slider for one signal but not sure how the other signal is routed to the switch.
I assume slider and it¡¯s base can be electrically isolated?(as rollers are in plastic cages)?providing 2 signal paths but that seems
easy to short so likely not the case.
Anyhow, it is important to understand the isolation so I can understand the extent of the fix.
Imran
On Mar 7, 2021, at 1:38 PM, AJ Quinter <ajquinter@...> wrote:
?I posted here a little while back about an opportunity I had to purchase several Felder tools (lightly used saw, planer, jointer, dust collector, etc.).? It seemed like a great deal, but unfortunately things fell apart quickly when I stipulated
in the bill of sale that the seller had to confirm that he was the legal owner of the equipment, free of liens or other encumbrances.
After that deal fell apart, I ended up ordering a new K940S with a 126" sliding table.? I have never owned a sliding table saw and although I own David Best's excellent survival guide, decided to have the machine commissioned by a Felder technician.
I received the saw and a couple of issues came up during the commissioning.? The outrigger and fence extrusions were packed with the sliding table.? During shipping these extrusions scratched the insulating tape on the underside of the sliding table.? The damage
did not look like a big deal at the time.?
When the entire commissioning process was finished, I made a test cut and the stop button on the sliding table did not work (the start button worked fine).? Justin, the technician, indicated that the start button works with radio frequency, but the stop button
works by conducting electricity through the sliding rails themselves.? The rails must need to be isolated in some manner to prevent the signal from shorting out to the machine base.? He indicated that the scratched insulating tape could be the issue (he tried
fixing this with electrical tape, but didn't succeed), or it could be a damaged insulating coating on one of the many, many screws in the sliding table assembly.? He indicated that this was definitely a warranty issue.? He would need to come back and completely
disassemble the sliding table to try to fix the problem.??
I am not at all thrilled with this idea!? Although Justin seemed very competent, I don't like the idea of someone disassembling and reassembling the factory assembled sliding table on site.? Obviously, this component is really the critical precision element
on the whole machine.? I don't have clean space, fixtures, etc. for this operation to take place.? I am also quite concerned that when finished (and with my luck) nothing will be resolved!? Further, I am not thrilled about someone coming in and upending my
shop for several days with this process.
One of the other issues I had is the wire connection between the sliding table and main saw cracked during installation.? Justin indicated that this was a relatively common issue, but obviously not ideal.? He checked in the electrical panel and indicated that
there were no issues with functionality relating to the cracked connection.??
I would love to get some feedback from all of you regarding these issues.? How would you proceed?? What would you try to get Felder to do to remedy the situation?? How big of a deal is it that the stop button on the sliding table doesn't work???
Thanks so much for your help and opinions!
??
<damaged strip.jpg>
<cracked connection.jpg>
|
Mark, I think you¡¯re right about the connector being a source for the issue. ?If my logic holds, that this circuit, like all the other stop circuits is a normally-closed (NC) circuit, then a failed (open) connection would constantly be triggering the machine to STOP. ?Since it does run, there is either a short prior to the stop button, or the stop button itself is defective. ?My hunch is on the former. ?That short could well be in the connector, or it could be the result of the electrical insulator failure on the slider ways, or a broken stop switch in the slider. ?With a continuity tester, it would be pretty simple to diagnose the source of any short.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
David, I totally agree with your recommendation.
I do think that connector and the tech¡¯s ¡°check¡± is suspect, that connecter should come apart to see if a wire got pulled from the connector, they are tiny wires and the strain relief is week in that connector. In any case the electrical part is fairly easy to diagnose even over the phone.?
I guess the other thing is that I would think they would be obligated to fix the stop switch and not simply leave it not working and compensate for it, i know it¡¯s an eu rule but... I would demand a new extrusion with delivery and install if they come to the conclusion that it needs to come apart - it is a brand new saw after all....
? I did see your email to Imran, it arrived after I sent my reply. ?My theory is correct then.
My recommendations to AJ stand. ?I would not authorize a field repair if it requires removing the bearing ways (top or bottom) to correct the electrical isolation. ?I would either live with remote start and no remote stop and ask for refund of the option, or I would insist on a replacement sliding table (complete unit). ?The idea that a Felder tech would start screwing with the bearing ways on the sliding table gives me the willies. ?
Hi David, not sure if you saw my email to Imran but yes the right upper and lower rails that carry the 24v are isolated with plastic sheeting ?and I didn¡¯t show a pic but the upper rails are connected to the switch with wires same way as the lower rails. ? Hi AJ,
Now you known why I have Felder commission my equipment - I¡¯m fully capable of doing it my self, but there are often missing parts or damaged items, and I don¡¯t want any finger-pointing that I was somehow the source of the problem. ?Every Felder machine I¡¯ve received has had some kind of post-commissioning followup issue to be resolved. ?Most have been minor. ?In once, the first Dual 51 outfeed table elevation system was damaged internally, and the entire machine had to be replaced. ?Most recently, the outfeed extension table on my Kappa 400 was warped and a new table was sent to replace it (70+ pounds arriving 8 weeks later). ?So this kind of thing does happen, and it can be very frustrating to pay high dollar for something that has issues upon delivery. ?Many (if not most) of the problems I have seen discussed here and in private stem from poor packaging and shipment damage.
I don¡¯t have direct experience with the remote stop switch on the sliding table, but I do have some ideas and suggestions. ?The wireless remote start facility has been an option on Felder sliders for about 18 years. ?It was only recently they added a remote STOP switch to the configuration. ?Due to safety regulations in Europe, the requirement is that a Stop switch has to be hard wired, and can not be triggered electronically. ?The stop circuits on the Felder equipment are all based on a Normally Closed switch to maintain continuity for the machine to run. ?The theory here is that if the switch itself were to malfunction, you¡¯¡¯d want it to stop the machine or prevent it from starting. ?The E-STOP switch is wired in parallel with the saw blade cover plenum cover switch and the cassis hinged door switch. ?If any of these switches are open, or the wires to them become damaged, the circuit is broken and the machine will not start.
I¡¯m not entirely sure if the remote start switch on the slider is in that same circuit. ?My guess is that it¡¯s a separate circuit, but is also probably a normally closed setup, so that when the switch is pressed it actually breaks a circuit rather than making one.
Looking at the photo Mark provided, it looks to me like the remote stop circuit cable is wired to terminate on the bearing ways of the sliding table lower carriage. ?Here is what I¡¯m looking at:
I conclude from this that that one of the bearing ways (the V-shaped hard steel runners facing outward on each side) is electrically isolated from the other bearing ways. ?I¡¯ll also theorize that the stop circuit is triggered when the connection between the two bearing ways is electrically opened, and that something inside the top moving part of the sliding table is making the connection until the stop button is depressed. ?This theory would be easily confirmed by removing the two Phillips screws that attach the wires, and testing the function when the wires are shorted together.
The question in my mind is how this system electrically isolates one of the bearing ways from the extrusion it attaches to below. ?There must be some kind of insulator material that isolates the ways, and the fasteners that attach it ?to the lower carriage. ?Again, I¡¯m flying blind here, not having dealt with this before, but logically, that¡¯s what makes sense to me.
Look at the photo you originally posted, it is also clear that the connector between the sliding table wires and the machine chassis is broken:
And from another photos, there is evidence of some kind of insulator material for presumably electrical isolation:
I can imagine a simple fix for this (connector replacement) or a pretty challenging fix for this (tearing off one of the bearing ways and fixing the electrical isolation material). ?The extent of the required fix would bias my own idea what should happen. ?Here are some scenarios.
If the fault lies with the lower carriage of the sliding table, specifically electrical isolation of the V-ways, then I would assume the bearing way has to come off, the insulator reapplied or repaired, and the way replaced. ?The alignment of those bearing ways is a critical element in the performance of the sliding table, and this is done in the factory with precision jigs and fixtures. ?It is possible to adjust one of the bearing ways in the field with a specialized measurement device which has been discussed here and I document here: ?
I would not trust having a Felder field technician remove and reinstall one ?of the bearing ways on the sliding table - the alignment requirement is too critical IMO. ?If that turns out to be the case, I would either insist on a new sliding table (probably 6 months wait, but minimal disruption for install), or I would live without the remote start function and ask Felder to refund the cost of the option.
Hope this helps.
David Best
I posted here a little while back about an opportunity I had to purchase several Felder tools (lightly used saw, planer, jointer, dust collector, etc.).? It seemed like a great deal, but unfortunately things fell apart quickly when I stipulated in the bill of sale that the seller had to confirm that he was the legal owner of the equipment, free of liens or other encumbrances.
After that deal fell apart, I ended up ordering a new K940S with a 126" sliding table.? I have never owned a sliding table saw and although I own David Best's excellent survival guide, decided to have the machine commissioned by a Felder technician.
I received the saw and a couple of issues came up during the commissioning.? The outrigger and fence extrusions were packed with the sliding table.? During shipping these extrusions scratched the insulating tape on the underside of the sliding table.? The damage did not look like a big deal at the time.?
When the entire commissioning process was finished, I made a test cut and the stop button on the sliding table did not work (the start button worked fine).? Justin, the technician, indicated that the start button works with radio frequency, but the stop button works by conducting electricity through the sliding rails themselves.? The rails must need to be isolated in some manner to prevent the signal from shorting out to the machine base.? He indicated that the scratched insulating tape could be the issue (he tried fixing this with electrical tape, but didn't succeed), or it could be a damaged insulating coating on one of the many, many screws in the sliding table assembly.? He indicated that this was definitely a warranty issue.? He would need to come back and completely disassemble the sliding table to try to fix the problem.??
I am not at all thrilled with this idea!? Although Justin seemed very competent, I don't like the idea of someone disassembling and reassembling the factory assembled sliding table on site.? Obviously, this component is really the critical precision element on the whole machine.? I don't have clean space, fixtures, etc. for this operation to take place.? I am also quite concerned that when finished (and with my luck) nothing will be resolved!? Further, I am not thrilled about someone coming in and upending my shop for several days with this process.
One of the other issues I had is the wire connection between the sliding table and main saw cracked during installation.? Justin indicated that this was a relatively common issue, but obviously not ideal.? He checked in the electrical panel and indicated that there were no issues with functionality relating to the cracked connection.??
I would love to get some feedback from all of you regarding these issues.? How would you proceed?? What would you try to get Felder to do to remedy the situation?? How big of a deal is it that the stop button on the sliding table doesn't work???
Thanks so much for your help and opinions!
??
<damaged strip.jpg><cracked connection.jpg>
|
David, I totally agree with your recommendation.
I do think that connector and the tech¡¯s ¡°check¡± is suspect, that connecter should come apart to see if a wire got pulled from the connector, they are tiny wires and the strain relief is week in that connector. In any case the electrical part is fairly easy to diagnose even over the phone.?
I guess the other thing is that I would think they would be obligated to fix the stop switch and not simply leave it not working and compensate for it, i know it¡¯s an eu rule but... I would demand a new extrusion with delivery and install if they come to the conclusion that it needs to come apart - it is a brand new saw after all....
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 7, 2021, at 10:22 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? I did see your email to Imran, it arrived after I sent my reply. ?My theory is correct then.
My recommendations to AJ stand. ?I would not authorize a field repair if it requires removing the bearing ways (top or bottom) to correct the electrical isolation. ?I would either live with remote start and no remote stop and ask for refund of the option, or I would insist on a replacement sliding table (complete unit). ?The idea that a Felder tech would start screwing with the bearing ways on the sliding table gives me the willies. ?
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
Hi David, not sure if you saw my email to Imran but yes the right upper and lower rails that carry the 24v are isolated with plastic sheeting ?and I didn¡¯t show a pic but the upper rails are connected to the switch with wires same way as the lower rails. ? Hi AJ,
Now you known why I have Felder commission my equipment - I¡¯m fully capable of doing it my self, but there are often missing parts or damaged items, and I don¡¯t want any finger-pointing that I was somehow the source of the problem. ?Every Felder machine I¡¯ve received has had some kind of post-commissioning followup issue to be resolved. ?Most have been minor. ?In once, the first Dual 51 outfeed table elevation system was damaged internally, and the entire machine had to be replaced. ?Most recently, the outfeed extension table on my Kappa 400 was warped and a new table was sent to replace it (70+ pounds arriving 8 weeks later). ?So this kind of thing does happen, and it can be very frustrating to pay high dollar for something that has issues upon delivery. ?Many (if not most) of the problems I have seen discussed here and in private stem from poor packaging and shipment damage.
I don¡¯t have direct experience with the remote stop switch on the sliding table, but I do have some ideas and suggestions. ?The wireless remote start facility has been an option on Felder sliders for about 18 years. ?It was only recently they added a remote STOP switch to the configuration. ?Due to safety regulations in Europe, the requirement is that a Stop switch has to be hard wired, and can not be triggered electronically. ?The stop circuits on the Felder equipment are all based on a Normally Closed switch to maintain continuity for the machine to run. ?The theory here is that if the switch itself were to malfunction, you¡¯¡¯d want it to stop the machine or prevent it from starting. ?The E-STOP switch is wired in parallel with the saw blade cover plenum cover switch and the cassis hinged door switch. ?If any of these switches are open, or the wires to them become damaged, the circuit is broken and the machine will not start.
I¡¯m not entirely sure if the remote start switch on the slider is in that same circuit. ?My guess is that it¡¯s a separate circuit, but is also probably a normally closed setup, so that when the switch is pressed it actually breaks a circuit rather than making one.
Looking at the photo Mark provided, it looks to me like the remote stop circuit cable is wired to terminate on the bearing ways of the sliding table lower carriage. ?Here is what I¡¯m looking at:
I conclude from this that that one of the bearing ways (the V-shaped hard steel runners facing outward on each side) is electrically isolated from the other bearing ways. ?I¡¯ll also theorize that the stop circuit is triggered when the connection between the two bearing ways is electrically opened, and that something inside the top moving part of the sliding table is making the connection until the stop button is depressed. ?This theory would be easily confirmed by removing the two Phillips screws that attach the wires, and testing the function when the wires are shorted together.
The question in my mind is how this system electrically isolates one of the bearing ways from the extrusion it attaches to below. ?There must be some kind of insulator material that isolates the ways, and the fasteners that attach it ?to the lower carriage. ?Again, I¡¯m flying blind here, not having dealt with this before, but logically, that¡¯s what makes sense to me.
Look at the photo you originally posted, it is also clear that the connector between the sliding table wires and the machine chassis is broken:
And from another photos, there is evidence of some kind of insulator material for presumably electrical isolation:
I can imagine a simple fix for this (connector replacement) or a pretty challenging fix for this (tearing off one of the bearing ways and fixing the electrical isolation material). ?The extent of the required fix would bias my own idea what should happen. ?Here are some scenarios.
If the fault lies with the lower carriage of the sliding table, specifically electrical isolation of the V-ways, then I would assume the bearing way has to come off, the insulator reapplied or repaired, and the way replaced. ?The alignment of those bearing ways is a critical element in the performance of the sliding table, and this is done in the factory with precision jigs and fixtures. ?It is possible to adjust one of the bearing ways in the field with a specialized measurement device which has been discussed here and I document here: ?
I would not trust having a Felder field technician remove and reinstall one ?of the bearing ways on the sliding table - the alignment requirement is too critical IMO. ?If that turns out to be the case, I would either insist on a new sliding table (probably 6 months wait, but minimal disruption for install), or I would live without the remote start function and ask Felder to refund the cost of the option.
Hope this helps.
David Best
I posted here a little while back about an opportunity I had to purchase several Felder tools (lightly used saw, planer, jointer, dust collector, etc.).? It seemed like a great deal, but unfortunately things fell apart quickly when I stipulated in the bill of sale that the seller had to confirm that he was the legal owner of the equipment, free of liens or other encumbrances.
After that deal fell apart, I ended up ordering a new K940S with a 126" sliding table.? I have never owned a sliding table saw and although I own David Best's excellent survival guide, decided to have the machine commissioned by a Felder technician.
I received the saw and a couple of issues came up during the commissioning.? The outrigger and fence extrusions were packed with the sliding table.? During shipping these extrusions scratched the insulating tape on the underside of the sliding table.? The damage did not look like a big deal at the time.?
When the entire commissioning process was finished, I made a test cut and the stop button on the sliding table did not work (the start button worked fine).? Justin, the technician, indicated that the start button works with radio frequency, but the stop button works by conducting electricity through the sliding rails themselves.? The rails must need to be isolated in some manner to prevent the signal from shorting out to the machine base.? He indicated that the scratched insulating tape could be the issue (he tried fixing this with electrical tape, but didn't succeed), or it could be a damaged insulating coating on one of the many, many screws in the sliding table assembly.? He indicated that this was definitely a warranty issue.? He would need to come back and completely disassemble the sliding table to try to fix the problem.??
I am not at all thrilled with this idea!? Although Justin seemed very competent, I don't like the idea of someone disassembling and reassembling the factory assembled sliding table on site.? Obviously, this component is really the critical precision element on the whole machine.? I don't have clean space, fixtures, etc. for this operation to take place.? I am also quite concerned that when finished (and with my luck) nothing will be resolved!? Further, I am not thrilled about someone coming in and upending my shop for several days with this process.
One of the other issues I had is the wire connection between the sliding table and main saw cracked during installation.? Justin indicated that this was a relatively common issue, but obviously not ideal.? He checked in the electrical panel and indicated that there were no issues with functionality relating to the cracked connection.??
I would love to get some feedback from all of you regarding these issues.? How would you proceed?? What would you try to get Felder to do to remedy the situation?? How big of a deal is it that the stop button on the sliding table doesn't work???
Thanks so much for your help and opinions!
??
<damaged strip.jpg><cracked connection.jpg>
|
I did see your email to Imran, it arrived after I sent my reply. ?My theory is correct then.
My recommendations to AJ stand. ?I would not authorize a field repair if it requires removing the bearing ways (top or bottom) to correct the electrical isolation. ?I would either live with remote start and no remote stop and ask for refund of the option, or I would insist on a replacement sliding table (complete unit). ?The idea that a Felder tech would start screwing with the bearing ways on the sliding table gives me the willies. ?
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi David, not sure if you saw my email to Imran but yes the right upper and lower rails that carry the 24v are isolated with plastic sheeting ?and I didn¡¯t show a pic but the upper rails are connected to the switch with wires same way as the lower rails. ? Hi AJ,
Now you known why I have Felder commission my equipment - I¡¯m fully capable of doing it my self, but there are often missing parts or damaged items, and I don¡¯t want any finger-pointing that I was somehow the source of the problem. ?Every Felder machine I¡¯ve received has had some kind of post-commissioning followup issue to be resolved. ?Most have been minor. ?In once, the first Dual 51 outfeed table elevation system was damaged internally, and the entire machine had to be replaced. ?Most recently, the outfeed extension table on my Kappa 400 was warped and a new table was sent to replace it (70+ pounds arriving 8 weeks later). ?So this kind of thing does happen, and it can be very frustrating to pay high dollar for something that has issues upon delivery. ?Many (if not most) of the problems I have seen discussed here and in private stem from poor packaging and shipment damage.
I don¡¯t have direct experience with the remote stop switch on the sliding table, but I do have some ideas and suggestions. ?The wireless remote start facility has been an option on Felder sliders for about 18 years. ?It was only recently they added a remote STOP switch to the configuration. ?Due to safety regulations in Europe, the requirement is that a Stop switch has to be hard wired, and can not be triggered electronically. ?The stop circuits on the Felder equipment are all based on a Normally Closed switch to maintain continuity for the machine to run. ?The theory here is that if the switch itself were to malfunction, you¡¯¡¯d want it to stop the machine or prevent it from starting. ?The E-STOP switch is wired in parallel with the saw blade cover plenum cover switch and the cassis hinged door switch. ?If any of these switches are open, or the wires to them become damaged, the circuit is broken and the machine will not start.
I¡¯m not entirely sure if the remote start switch on the slider is in that same circuit. ?My guess is that it¡¯s a separate circuit, but is also probably a normally closed setup, so that when the switch is pressed it actually breaks a circuit rather than making one.
Looking at the photo Mark provided, it looks to me like the remote stop circuit cable is wired to terminate on the bearing ways of the sliding table lower carriage. ?Here is what I¡¯m looking at:
I conclude from this that that one of the bearing ways (the V-shaped hard steel runners facing outward on each side) is electrically isolated from the other bearing ways. ?I¡¯ll also theorize that the stop circuit is triggered when the connection between the two bearing ways is electrically opened, and that something inside the top moving part of the sliding table is making the connection until the stop button is depressed. ?This theory would be easily confirmed by removing the two Phillips screws that attach the wires, and testing the function when the wires are shorted together.
The question in my mind is how this system electrically isolates one of the bearing ways from the extrusion it attaches to below. ?There must be some kind of insulator material that isolates the ways, and the fasteners that attach it ?to the lower carriage. ?Again, I¡¯m flying blind here, not having dealt with this before, but logically, that¡¯s what makes sense to me.
Look at the photo you originally posted, it is also clear that the connector between the sliding table wires and the machine chassis is broken:
And from another photos, there is evidence of some kind of insulator material for presumably electrical isolation:
I can imagine a simple fix for this (connector replacement) or a pretty challenging fix for this (tearing off one of the bearing ways and fixing the electrical isolation material). ?The extent of the required fix would bias my own idea what should happen. ?Here are some scenarios.
If the fault lies with the lower carriage of the sliding table, specifically electrical isolation of the V-ways, then I would assume the bearing way has to come off, the insulator reapplied or repaired, and the way replaced. ?The alignment of those bearing ways is a critical element in the performance of the sliding table, and this is done in the factory with precision jigs and fixtures. ?It is possible to adjust one of the bearing ways in the field with a specialized measurement device which has been discussed here and I document here: ?
I would not trust having a Felder field technician remove and reinstall one ?of the bearing ways on the sliding table - the alignment requirement is too critical IMO. ?If that turns out to be the case, I would either insist on a new sliding table (probably 6 months wait, but minimal disruption for install), or I would live without the remote start function and ask Felder to refund the cost of the option.
Hope this helps.
David Best
I posted here a little while back about an opportunity I had to purchase several Felder tools (lightly used saw, planer, jointer, dust collector, etc.).? It seemed like a great deal, but unfortunately things fell apart quickly when I stipulated in the bill of sale that the seller had to confirm that he was the legal owner of the equipment, free of liens or other encumbrances.
After that deal fell apart, I ended up ordering a new K940S with a 126" sliding table.? I have never owned a sliding table saw and although I own David Best's excellent survival guide, decided to have the machine commissioned by a Felder technician.
I received the saw and a couple of issues came up during the commissioning.? The outrigger and fence extrusions were packed with the sliding table.? During shipping these extrusions scratched the insulating tape on the underside of the sliding table.? The damage did not look like a big deal at the time.?
When the entire commissioning process was finished, I made a test cut and the stop button on the sliding table did not work (the start button worked fine).? Justin, the technician, indicated that the start button works with radio frequency, but the stop button works by conducting electricity through the sliding rails themselves.? The rails must need to be isolated in some manner to prevent the signal from shorting out to the machine base.? He indicated that the scratched insulating tape could be the issue (he tried fixing this with electrical tape, but didn't succeed), or it could be a damaged insulating coating on one of the many, many screws in the sliding table assembly.? He indicated that this was definitely a warranty issue.? He would need to come back and completely disassemble the sliding table to try to fix the problem.??
I am not at all thrilled with this idea!? Although Justin seemed very competent, I don't like the idea of someone disassembling and reassembling the factory assembled sliding table on site.? Obviously, this component is really the critical precision element on the whole machine.? I don't have clean space, fixtures, etc. for this operation to take place.? I am also quite concerned that when finished (and with my luck) nothing will be resolved!? Further, I am not thrilled about someone coming in and upending my shop for several days with this process.
One of the other issues I had is the wire connection between the sliding table and main saw cracked during installation.? Justin indicated that this was a relatively common issue, but obviously not ideal.? He checked in the electrical panel and indicated that there were no issues with functionality relating to the cracked connection.??
I would love to get some feedback from all of you regarding these issues.? How would you proceed?? What would you try to get Felder to do to remedy the situation?? How big of a deal is it that the stop button on the sliding table doesn't work???
Thanks so much for your help and opinions!
??
<damaged strip.jpg><cracked connection.jpg>
|
Hi David, not sure if you saw my email to Imran but yes the right upper and lower rails that carry the 24v are isolated with plastic sheeting ?and I didn¡¯t show a pic but the upper rails are connected to the switch with wires same way as the lower rails.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 7, 2021, at 10:07 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? Hi AJ,
Now you known why I have Felder commission my equipment - I¡¯m fully capable of doing it my self, but there are often missing parts or damaged items, and I don¡¯t want any finger-pointing that I was somehow the source of the problem. ?Every Felder machine I¡¯ve received has had some kind of post-commissioning followup issue to be resolved. ?Most have been minor. ?In once, the first Dual 51 outfeed table elevation system was damaged internally, and the entire machine had to be replaced. ?Most recently, the outfeed extension table on my Kappa 400 was warped and a new table was sent to replace it (70+ pounds arriving 8 weeks later). ?So this kind of thing does happen, and it can be very frustrating to pay high dollar for something that has issues upon delivery. ?Many (if not most) of the problems I have seen discussed here and in private stem from poor packaging and shipment damage.
I don¡¯t have direct experience with the remote stop switch on the sliding table, but I do have some ideas and suggestions. ?The wireless remote start facility has been an option on Felder sliders for about 18 years. ?It was only recently they added a remote STOP switch to the configuration. ?Due to safety regulations in Europe, the requirement is that a Stop switch has to be hard wired, and can not be triggered electronically. ?The stop circuits on the Felder equipment are all based on a Normally Closed switch to maintain continuity for the machine to run. ?The theory here is that if the switch itself were to malfunction, you¡¯¡¯d want it to stop the machine or prevent it from starting. ?The E-STOP switch is wired in parallel with the saw blade cover plenum cover switch and the cassis hinged door switch. ?If any of these switches are open, or the wires to them become damaged, the circuit is broken and the machine will not start.
I¡¯m not entirely sure if the remote start switch on the slider is in that same circuit. ?My guess is that it¡¯s a separate circuit, but is also probably a normally closed setup, so that when the switch is pressed it actually breaks a circuit rather than making one.
Looking at the photo Mark provided, it looks to me like the remote stop circuit cable is wired to terminate on the bearing ways of the sliding table lower carriage. ?Here is what I¡¯m looking at:
I conclude from this that that one of the bearing ways (the V-shaped hard steel runners facing outward on each side) is electrically isolated from the other bearing ways. ?I¡¯ll also theorize that the stop circuit is triggered when the connection between the two bearing ways is electrically opened, and that something inside the top moving part of the sliding table is making the connection until the stop button is depressed. ?This theory would be easily confirmed by removing the two Phillips screws that attach the wires, and testing the function when the wires are shorted together.
The question in my mind is how this system electrically isolates one of the bearing ways from the extrusion it attaches to below. ?There must be some kind of insulator material that isolates the ways, and the fasteners that attach it ?to the lower carriage. ?Again, I¡¯m flying blind here, not having dealt with this before, but logically, that¡¯s what makes sense to me.
Look at the photo you originally posted, it is also clear that the connector between the sliding table wires and the machine chassis is broken:
And from another photos, there is evidence of some kind of insulator material for presumably electrical isolation:
I can imagine a simple fix for this (connector replacement) or a pretty challenging fix for this (tearing off one of the bearing ways and fixing the electrical isolation material). ?The extent of the required fix would bias my own idea what should happen. ?Here are some scenarios.
If the fault lies with the lower carriage of the sliding table, specifically electrical isolation of the V-ways, then I would assume the bearing way has to come off, the insulator reapplied or repaired, and the way replaced. ?The alignment of those bearing ways is a critical element in the performance of the sliding table, and this is done in the factory with precision jigs and fixtures. ?It is possible to adjust one of the bearing ways in the field with a specialized measurement device which has been discussed here and I document here: ?
I would not trust having a Felder field technician remove and reinstall one ?of the bearing ways on the sliding table - the alignment requirement is too critical IMO. ?If that turns out to be the case, I would either insist on a new sliding table (probably 6 months wait, but minimal disruption for install), or I would live without the remote start function and ask Felder to refund the cost of the option.
Hope this helps.
David Best
I posted here a little while back about an opportunity I had to purchase several Felder tools (lightly used saw, planer, jointer, dust collector, etc.).? It seemed like a great deal, but unfortunately things fell apart quickly when I stipulated in the bill of sale that the seller had to confirm that he was the legal owner of the equipment, free of liens or other encumbrances.
After that deal fell apart, I ended up ordering a new K940S with a 126" sliding table.? I have never owned a sliding table saw and although I own David Best's excellent survival guide, decided to have the machine commissioned by a Felder technician.
I received the saw and a couple of issues came up during the commissioning.? The outrigger and fence extrusions were packed with the sliding table.? During shipping these extrusions scratched the insulating tape on the underside of the sliding table.? The damage did not look like a big deal at the time.?
When the entire commissioning process was finished, I made a test cut and the stop button on the sliding table did not work (the start button worked fine).? Justin, the technician, indicated that the start button works with radio frequency, but the stop button works by conducting electricity through the sliding rails themselves.? The rails must need to be isolated in some manner to prevent the signal from shorting out to the machine base.? He indicated that the scratched insulating tape could be the issue (he tried fixing this with electrical tape, but didn't succeed), or it could be a damaged insulating coating on one of the many, many screws in the sliding table assembly.? He indicated that this was definitely a warranty issue.? He would need to come back and completely disassemble the sliding table to try to fix the problem.??
I am not at all thrilled with this idea!? Although Justin seemed very competent, I don't like the idea of someone disassembling and reassembling the factory assembled sliding table on site.? Obviously, this component is really the critical precision element on the whole machine.? I don't have clean space, fixtures, etc. for this operation to take place.? I am also quite concerned that when finished (and with my luck) nothing will be resolved!? Further, I am not thrilled about someone coming in and upending my shop for several days with this process.
One of the other issues I had is the wire connection between the sliding table and main saw cracked during installation.? Justin indicated that this was a relatively common issue, but obviously not ideal.? He checked in the electrical panel and indicated that there were no issues with functionality relating to the cracked connection.??
I would love to get some feedback from all of you regarding these issues.? How would you proceed?? What would you try to get Felder to do to remedy the situation?? How big of a deal is it that the stop button on the sliding table doesn't work???
Thanks so much for your help and opinions!
??
<damaged strip.jpg><cracked connection.jpg>
|
Hi AJ,
Now you known why I have Felder commission my equipment - I¡¯m fully capable of doing it my self, but there are often missing parts or damaged items, and I don¡¯t want any finger-pointing that I was somehow the source of the problem. ?Every Felder machine I¡¯ve received has had some kind of post-commissioning followup issue to be resolved. ?Most have been minor. ?In once, the first Dual 51 outfeed table elevation system was damaged internally, and the entire machine had to be replaced. ?Most recently, the outfeed extension table on my Kappa 400 was warped and a new table was sent to replace it (70+ pounds arriving 8 weeks later). ?So this kind of thing does happen, and it can be very frustrating to pay high dollar for something that has issues upon delivery. ?Many (if not most) of the problems I have seen discussed here and in private stem from poor packaging and shipment damage.
I don¡¯t have direct experience with the remote stop switch on the sliding table, but I do have some ideas and suggestions. ?The wireless remote start facility has been an option on Felder sliders for about 18 years. ?It was only recently they added a remote STOP switch to the configuration. ?Due to safety regulations in Europe, the requirement is that a Stop switch has to be hard wired, and can not be triggered electronically. ?The stop circuits on the Felder equipment are all based on a Normally Closed switch to maintain continuity for the machine to run. ?The theory here is that if the switch itself were to malfunction, you¡¯¡¯d want it to stop the machine or prevent it from starting. ?The E-STOP switch is wired in parallel with the saw blade cover plenum cover switch and the cassis hinged door switch. ?If any of these switches are open, or the wires to them become damaged, the circuit is broken and the machine will not start.
I¡¯m not entirely sure if the remote start switch on the slider is in that same circuit. ?My guess is that it¡¯s a separate circuit, but is also probably a normally closed setup, so that when the switch is pressed it actually breaks a circuit rather than making one.
Looking at the photo Mark provided, it looks to me like the remote stop circuit cable is wired to terminate on the bearing ways of the sliding table lower carriage. ?Here is what I¡¯m looking at:
I conclude from this that that one of the bearing ways (the V-shaped hard steel runners facing outward on each side) is electrically isolated from the other bearing ways. ?I¡¯ll also theorize that the stop circuit is triggered when the connection between the two bearing ways is electrically opened, and that something inside the top moving part of the sliding table is making the connection until the stop button is depressed. ?This theory would be easily confirmed by removing the two Phillips screws that attach the wires, and testing the function when the wires are shorted together.
The question in my mind is how this system electrically isolates one of the bearing ways from the extrusion it attaches to below. ?There must be some kind of insulator material that isolates the ways, and the fasteners that attach it ?to the lower carriage. ?Again, I¡¯m flying blind here, not having dealt with this before, but logically, that¡¯s what makes sense to me.
Look at the photo you originally posted, it is also clear that the connector between the sliding table wires and the machine chassis is broken:
And from another photos, there is evidence of some kind of insulator material for presumably electrical isolation:
I can imagine a simple fix for this (connector replacement) or a pretty challenging fix for this (tearing off one of the bearing ways and fixing the electrical isolation material). ?The extent of the required fix would bias my own idea what should happen. ?Here are some scenarios.
If the fault lies with the lower carriage of the sliding table, specifically electrical isolation of the V-ways, then I would assume the bearing way has to come off, the insulator reapplied or repaired, and the way replaced. ?The alignment of those bearing ways is a critical element in the performance of the sliding table, and this is done in the factory with precision jigs and fixtures. ?It is possible to adjust one of the bearing ways in the field with a specialized measurement device which has been discussed here and I document here: ?
I would not trust having a Felder field technician remove and reinstall one ?of the bearing ways on the sliding table - the alignment requirement is too critical IMO. ?If that turns out to be the case, I would either insist on a new sliding table (probably 6 months wait, but minimal disruption for install), or I would live without the remote start function and ask Felder to refund the cost of the option.
Hope this helps.
David Best
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I posted here a little while back about an opportunity I had to purchase several Felder tools (lightly used saw, planer, jointer, dust collector, etc.).? It seemed like a great deal, but unfortunately things fell apart quickly when I stipulated in the bill of sale that the seller had to confirm that he was the legal owner of the equipment, free of liens or other encumbrances.
After that deal fell apart, I ended up ordering a new K940S with a 126" sliding table.? I have never owned a sliding table saw and although I own David Best's excellent survival guide, decided to have the machine commissioned by a Felder technician.
I received the saw and a couple of issues came up during the commissioning.? The outrigger and fence extrusions were packed with the sliding table.? During shipping these extrusions scratched the insulating tape on the underside of the sliding table.? The damage did not look like a big deal at the time.?
When the entire commissioning process was finished, I made a test cut and the stop button on the sliding table did not work (the start button worked fine).? Justin, the technician, indicated that the start button works with radio frequency, but the stop button works by conducting electricity through the sliding rails themselves.? The rails must need to be isolated in some manner to prevent the signal from shorting out to the machine base.? He indicated that the scratched insulating tape could be the issue (he tried fixing this with electrical tape, but didn't succeed), or it could be a damaged insulating coating on one of the many, many screws in the sliding table assembly.? He indicated that this was definitely a warranty issue.? He would need to come back and completely disassemble the sliding table to try to fix the problem.??
I am not at all thrilled with this idea!? Although Justin seemed very competent, I don't like the idea of someone disassembling and reassembling the factory assembled sliding table on site.? Obviously, this component is really the critical precision element on the whole machine.? I don't have clean space, fixtures, etc. for this operation to take place.? I am also quite concerned that when finished (and with my luck) nothing will be resolved!? Further, I am not thrilled about someone coming in and upending my shop for several days with this process.
One of the other issues I had is the wire connection between the sliding table and main saw cracked during installation.? Justin indicated that this was a relatively common issue, but obviously not ideal.? He checked in the electrical panel and indicated that there were no issues with functionality relating to the cracked connection.??
I would love to get some feedback from all of you regarding these issues.? How would you proceed?? What would you try to get Felder to do to remedy the situation?? How big of a deal is it that the stop button on the sliding table doesn't work???
Thanks so much for your help and opinions!
??
<damaged strip.jpg><cracked connection.jpg>
|
imran
David P. Best