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New K940S issues
I posted here a little while back about an opportunity I had to purchase several Felder tools (lightly used saw, planer, jointer, dust collector, etc.).? It seemed like a great deal, but unfortunately things fell apart quickly when I stipulated in the bill of sale that the seller had to confirm that he was the legal owner of the equipment, free of liens or other encumbrances.
After that deal fell apart, I ended up ordering a new K940S with a 126" sliding table.? I have never owned a sliding table saw and although I own David Best's excellent survival guide, decided to have the machine commissioned by a Felder technician. I received the saw and a couple of issues came up during the commissioning.? The outrigger and fence extrusions were packed with the sliding table.? During shipping these extrusions scratched the insulating tape on the underside of the sliding table.? The damage did not look like a big deal at the time.? When the entire commissioning process was finished, I made a test cut and the stop button on the sliding table did not work (the start button worked fine).? Justin, the technician, indicated that the start button works with radio frequency, but the stop button works by conducting electricity through the sliding rails themselves.? The rails must need to be isolated in some manner to prevent the signal from shorting out to the machine base.? He indicated that the scratched insulating tape could be the issue (he tried fixing this with electrical tape, but didn't succeed), or it could be a damaged insulating coating on one of the many, many screws in the sliding table assembly.? He indicated that this was definitely a warranty issue.? He would need to come back and completely disassemble the sliding table to try to fix the problem.?? I am not at all thrilled with this idea!? Although Justin seemed very competent, I don't like the idea of someone disassembling and reassembling the factory assembled sliding table on site.? Obviously, this component is really the critical precision element on the whole machine.? I don't have clean space, fixtures, etc. for this operation to take place.? I am also quite concerned that when finished (and with my luck) nothing will be resolved!? Further, I am not thrilled about someone coming in and upending my shop for several days with this process. One of the other issues I had is the wire connection between the sliding table and main saw cracked during installation.? Justin indicated that this was a relatively common issue, but obviously not ideal.? He checked in the electrical panel and indicated that there were no issues with functionality relating to the cracked connection.?? I would love to get some feedback from all of you regarding these issues.? How would you proceed?? What would you try to get Felder to do to remedy the situation?? How big of a deal is it that the stop button on the sliding table doesn't work??? Thanks so much for your help and opinions! ?? |
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Re: Adding fence to bandsaw?
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On Mar 7, 2021, at 9:44 AM, tom@... wrote:
?Hi Imran!? Yes, based on my research and experience it appears that the following is generally true in terms of Felder/Aigner compatibility: -- When the Felder table extension mounting bars (TEMB) are installed with the bolts at the bottom of the bars, they are compatible with both Felder and Aigner products -- When the Felder TEMB are installed with the bolts towards the top of the bar (machines with shallow (less than 40mm tall) aprons, reduced OD spacers will allow for most Felder table extensions, but is still too shallow for Aigner table extensions (the Aigner table extensions and some Felder parts, such as the band saw fence assembly, have a deeper "hook").? -- The Aigner TEMB are shorter than the Felder TEMB, so the Aigner TEMB will accommodate the 1m Aigner and likely the Felder 1m table extension, but the Aigner TEMB is not tall enough to support the Felder cantilevered table extensions.? Ultimately, while the Felder bars are triple the cost of the Aigner, they seem to have broader compatibility/versatility. Also, they are a one-time purchase for machines, and they don't wear out, so it's not as though it's an ongoing expense. I've just started incorporating them into the expected purchase price of a given non-Felder machine..... Hope this helps, I'm happy to explain in more detail if desired. ? -- Tom Gensmer Heritage Home Renewals, LLC Minneapolis, MN |
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Re: CF531 Electrical Schematic
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýBlaine, I found this in files. This may not apply to your yr of manufacture but it does show a dashed line connection to operate w/o brake. I would still call felder to confirm. Imran On Mar 7, 2021, at 10:55 AM, Blaine Wright <blaine@...> wrote:
?Thanks Imran. Yes, I have a manual, but haven¡¯t found schematics in it yet. There is no wiring diagram on the panel door, and we haven¡¯t been able to bypass the brake controller yet, but will have another go later today.. I¡¯ll call Felder as I¡¯ve read many good accounts of great support they¡¯ve provided to others in this group. Cheers Blaine |
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Re: Adding fence to bandsaw?
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýThank Tom, super helpful. ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of tom@...
Sent: Sunday, March 7, 2021 7:44 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FOG] Adding fence to bandsaw? ? Hi Imran!? |
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Re: Adding fence to bandsaw?
Hi Imran!?
Yes, based on my research and experience it appears that the following is generally true in terms of Felder/Aigner compatibility: -- When the Felder table extension mounting bars (TEMB) are installed with the bolts at the bottom of the bars, they are compatible with both Felder and Aigner products -- When the Felder TEMB are installed with the bolts towards the top of the bar (machines with shallow (less than 40mm tall) aprons, reduced OD spacers will allow for most Felder table extensions, but is still too shallow for Aigner table extensions (the Aigner table extensions and some Felder parts, such as the band saw fence assembly, have a deeper "hook").? -- The Aigner TEMB are shorter than the Felder TEMB, so the Aigner TEMB will accommodate the 1m Aigner and likely the Felder 1m table extension, but the Aigner TEMB is not tall enough to support the Felder cantilevered table extensions.? Ultimately, while the Felder bars are triple the cost of the Aigner, they seem to have broader compatibility/versatility. Also, they are a one-time purchase for machines, and they don't wear out, so it's not as though it's an ongoing expense. I've just started incorporating them into the expected purchase price of a given non-Felder machine..... Hope this helps, I'm happy to explain in more detail if desired. ? -- Tom Gensmer Heritage Home Renewals, LLC Minneapolis, MN |
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Re: #Felder_3phase_Machine_Motor_Currents_KF700_K975_Dual51
#felder_3phase_machine_motor_currents_kf700_k975_dual51
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýDavid, Good point on soft start. In the number I posted both K975 and Dual51 have star-delta start. Imran On Mar 6, 2021, at 2:48 PM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
The three phase higher hp felder motors I've seen are soft start so starting the rpc will be the limitation, not the machines.? I have 110 amps going to the garage shop and can run about 20 hp at the same time and my old motors are generally hard starting.?
Dave From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 1:51 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: [FOG] #Felder_3phase_Machine_Motor_Currents_KF700_K975_Dual51 ?
I thought this might help folks make an informed decision when they have limited power in shop. Actual currents are usually much less than what is listed on the label. All measurements made with motor idling. I made these measurements with a inexpensive clamp meter. I noted maximum current that I saw. Since this is not a true RMS meter a fudge factor of 10% should be sufficient to provide worst case current. ? KF700 Machine Label. Measured shaper 3KW motor. Measured Starting 18A. Idling 2.8A. I had previously measured current with a scope on this machine and a peak current of 4A matches the RMS reading I took.
<image003.jpg>
? K975 Machine Label. Measured saw motor (5.5KW) alone and Saw & Scoring (1.1KW) motors together. Measured Starting 24A. Saw idling 4A. Saw & Scorer idling 5.7A.
<image005.jpg>
? Format4 Dual51 Machine Label. 7.35KW motor. Measured Starting 38A. Idling 6.2A. I had previously measured current with a scope on this machine and a peak current of 10A equates to 7A RMS. So I would suggest using 7A.
<image007.jpg>
? Hope this is helpful. ? Imran |
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Re: #Felder_3phase_Machine_Motor_Currents_KF700_K975_Dual51
#felder_3phase_machine_motor_currents_kf700_k975_dual51
¿ªÔÆÌåÓý
The three phase higher hp felder motors I've seen are soft start so starting the rpc will be the limitation, not the machines.? I have 110 amps going to the garage shop and can run about 20 hp at the same time and my old motors are generally hard starting.?
Dave From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 1:51 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: [FOG] #Felder_3phase_Machine_Motor_Currents_KF700_K975_Dual51 ?
I thought this might help folks make an informed decision when they have limited power in shop. Actual currents are usually much less than what is listed on the label. All measurements made with motor idling. I made these measurements with a inexpensive clamp meter. I noted maximum current that I saw. Since this is not a true RMS meter a fudge factor of 10% should be sufficient to provide worst case current. ? KF700 Machine Label. Measured shaper 3KW motor. Measured Starting 18A. Idling 2.8A. I had previously measured current with a scope on this machine and a peak current of 4A matches the RMS reading I took.
? K975 Machine Label. Measured saw motor (5.5KW) alone and Saw & Scoring (1.1KW) motors together. Measured Starting 24A. Saw idling 4A. Saw & Scorer idling 5.7A.
? Format4 Dual51 Machine Label. 7.35KW motor. Measured Starting 38A. Idling 6.2A. I had previously measured current with a scope on this machine and a peak current of 10A equates to 7A RMS. So I would suggest using 7A.
? Hope this is helpful. ? Imran |
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Re: Used KF700 year 200 price check
Hi Steve,
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Attached shows what the plastic dust collector "basket" should look like. I just posted measured currents of motors including 5.5KW and this might help you in determining your head room. The only other thing I would say is that I had the KF700 with 78" slider for 17 yrs and it served me fine as I was working and therefore a part time user. I cut ply with circular or track saw when needed. Once retired I wanted a dedicated saw, which I have now and KF is a dedicated shaper. Not sure if that trajectory would work for you. $3500 is not bad even for a shaper and you may get it for less due to missing items. For use as a shaper, you have a much better chance of aligning the short slider to near cast iron height than a longer slider. Anecdotally, I think 9' (110") slider are more common than 8'. You may have better luck finding that. Also, clamps (especially pneumatic) are wonderfully amazing on sliders. Manu of us use two for long rips or ply, so 9' is minimum for that scenario. Imran -----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] On Behalf Of Stephen Zielke Sent: Friday, March 05, 2021 10:43 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FOG] Used KF700 year 200 price check Thanks Patrick & Imran for your thoughts. I was excited to see this saw come up in the Seattle market local to me, but then found it to be so-so in person. It's missing an eccentric clamp, table saw blade guard, and anything for the shaper beyond a fence: no hold downs or other safety feature items, which I would have thought an original shaper user would have thought necessary (even my Rojek has a bundle of different helpers for the shaper). The current owner only used it as a saw. It seems like the under the table shaper dust collector "basket" is half broken, unless it's normal that half the sphere is missing. Only the half connected to the dust tube leading to the exterior is there, so a lot of chips would fall down onto the spindle/belt, that seems wrong. Although the exterior of the body says it can take a high speed spindle, the E-shop part numbers suggest only more modern ones are stocked. I will have to contact my Felder salesperson. It's a pretty expensive part, I think I would probably just work a router table into an outfeed table extension (to utilize the slider) and keep the shaper for shaper sized cutters. That's what I did with the Rojek. The outrigger table is all fine and present. Just no eccentric hold down. The 3 phase is the problem - due to limited power at my subpanel, I talked to an electrician today. He advised me I should turn off my heat when using the saw and RPC, or I might blow the main under initial motor loading. No other tool in the shop exceeds 4.8hp (3.5KW) single phase, and most are less, so up until now my panel was always ok. It's 80' of difficult conduit pull, mostly underground, so I won't be upgrading. I know because I did it all myself when I was younger and more energetic. I agree about the 80".I was really searching for 98", to just squeak by with sheet goods. I'm already annoyed on enough occasions with the limits of my 5' saw, and 80" isn't much better. 10' is really common as a used saw, even 5' is somewhat common on the used saw-shaper or 5-in-1 market. But 8' seems really rare. I think this length issue (along with the RPC) will keep me looking for a used 8' while I save for another year or so to purchase new. My used budget is $5-6k at present, and I know new is $8-12k, depending on make and manuf. So I'm halfway to new. Great site (and so many more users than the tiny Minimax iogroups!). Steve |
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#Felder_3phase_Machine_Motor_Currents_KF700_K975_Dual51
#felder_3phase_machine_motor_currents_kf700_k975_dual51
I thought this might help folks make an informed decision when sizing a phase converter, especially when the single phase power available in the shop is limited. KF700 Machine Label. Measured shaper 3KW motor. Measured Starting 18A. Idling 2.8A. I had previously measured current with a scope on this machine and a peak current of 4A matches the RMS reading I took.
Measured Starting 24A. Saw idling 4A. Saw & Scorer idling 5.7A.
Measured Starting 38A. Idling 6.2A. I had previously measured current with a scope on this machine and a peak current of 10A equates to 7A RMS. So I would suggest using 7A. Hope this is helpful. Imran |
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Router Spindle Compatibility with 240 Hood
Guys just piddling around in shop and it occurred to me to check how far back my fence plates go. When I mount the hood in the rear set of holes, the fence plates actually sits behind the centerline of the spindle.
I thought a modification to the micro adjust was required for this. So is it possible that all KF700 are not same? I know that Aigner fence plates are thicker and from posts definitely sit proud of the spindle center line but I am pretty sure I read here that even felder stock fence plates were also an issue. It would be good to clarify this for people considering to buy a KF or ones with KF and considering to buy a router spindle. Imran |
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Re: Adding fence to bandsaw?
Thanks Tom for the pics. Looks like I can fit the pressure module and extension table if I switch from Aigner to Felder rails.
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Here is a pic showing ext. table not fitting on Aigner rail.
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The rail is just not wide enough. Maybe Aigner makes them wider and I picked the wrong one. Here is same table on felder rail.
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and Aigner pressure module on the same felder rail
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Imran
On Mar 6, 2021, at 12:00 PM, tom@... wrote:
Hi Joe!? I added the Felder mounting rails to my little Laguna 14" saw and have been really happy with the utility they've added to the machine.? <IMG_1108.jpeg>
<IMG_1107.jpeg>
<IMG_1109.jpeg>
The apron on the cast iron top wasn't tall enough to mount the Felder bars in the intended orientation (fasteners in the lower position). Instead, I just bought some stainless spacers on McMaster Carr (smaller OD than the Felder spacers), which give me the clearance necessary for the Felder tables to hook on the rail without interference from the spacers.? On my Laguna, the blade exits the table out the side, so I've taken to just leaving out the one fastener to ease swapping blades. The photos above are rather old, and don't reflect the smaller OD spacers and removal of the near-side bolt.? For the in-feed side, I have the Aigner table extension with the round bar adapter and that works fine with my Laguna Driftmaster fence. The Driftmaster is frankly overkill on my saw, so I have the parts on order from Felder for their band saw fence assembly. Once they arrive I'll add a Felder bar to the in-feed side and likely sell the driftmaster, or reserve it for when I eventually add a larger saw.? Here's the parts breakdown for the Felder band saw fence assembly:? <Mail Attachment.png>
-- Tom Gensmer Heritage Home Renewals, LLC Minneapolis, MN |
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Re: Adding fence to bandsaw?
Hi Joe!?
I added the Felder mounting rails to my little Laguna 14" saw and have been really happy with the utility they've added to the machine.? The apron on the cast iron top wasn't tall enough to mount the Felder bars in the intended orientation (fasteners in the lower position). Instead, I just bought some stainless spacers on McMaster Carr (smaller OD than the Felder spacers), which give me the clearance necessary for the Felder tables to hook on the rail without interference from the spacers.? On my Laguna, the blade exits the table out the side, so I've taken to just leaving out the one fastener to ease swapping blades. The photos above are rather old, and don't reflect the smaller OD spacers and removal of the near-side bolt.? For the in-feed side, I have the Aigner table extension with the round bar adapter and that works fine with my Laguna Driftmaster fence. The Driftmaster is frankly overkill on my saw, so I have the parts on order from Felder for their band saw fence assembly. Once they arrive I'll add a Felder bar to the in-feed side and likely sell the driftmaster, or reserve it for when I eventually add a larger saw.? Here's the parts breakdown for the Felder band saw fence assembly:? -- Tom Gensmer Heritage Home Renewals, LLC Minneapolis, MN |
imran
Joe Jensen
Tom Gensmer
