California tool Compressor
I'm considering the california tools 10020dcad-22060 Amazon sells a $76 additional two year warranty. Worth it?
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Re: Morso guillotine question
I figured...
At least?for the blast gate portion of this that is what i plan to do.
Im really going to need to devote some time to digging up the betta on the electrical schematics of this project before i get to deep into it.
Right now i need to get my head back into work for the week.
Lots of distractions this past weekend being from Boston. I had planned on working saturday and a half day sunday. That did not happen so now i am?really behind the eight ball so to speak.
?
Meant ptf sorry Designing and building for 47 years
?
You could go to ptft fittings Designing and building for 47 years
?
Rob,
That sounds complicated and a bit above my pay grade. I am sure if i was so mitivated i could figure it out but man imdid not u derstand the audimated blast gates would be such a project.?
The plumbing of the?air lines i expected and am not worried about. I?was wondering how the blast gates?get wired up to either a autostart or remote start.?
I guess if i am going to do this it would be nice if i could wire my machines somthat when i push the start button of my Felder machines the blast gate opens and the dust collector fires up.
If you do that writs u i would be interested as i have a good friend whom is very smart. He is way into computers, code, programing so forth and so on and understands electronics a bit also. He is actually a MIT grad that ended up a builder. Nope i dont quite understand that one except that its in his blood. His father was a carpenter, his grandfather was a carpenter so forth and so on.
Anyway, what do people do for remote or auto start on their Felder single phase?dust collectors. Or do most have three phase and use the adapter plug thing Felder sells. On Monday, February 6, 2017, 'Robert Shostak' rshostak1@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
?
Without taking this thread too far off track, I thought I¡¯d respond to the original poster¡¯s question regarding pneumatic blast gates.? ?? ? I¡¯m using the Nordfab SD and NFES blast gates, which are pneumatically powered, and am very pleased with them.?? The air is provided by the quiet Cal Air Tools 2HP, 10 ga. ?(the 10200C) that Brian Lamb had originally suggested, and that was recommended by a number of people earlier in this thread.?? This compressor can only supply 5.5 CFM at 90 psi, but that is adequate to operate the blast gates (one at a time, at least).?? ??A 1/8¡± polyurethane tube is home run from each gate to a manifold (mounted on one wall of the shop), and then to the compressor via ?¡±? copper pipe.?? My only complaint about the set-up is that there is enough air leakage in the system ¨C probably at the push connectors used with the tubing ¨C that the compressor has to turn on about every half hour ?even when the system is quiescent. ??A larger tank would help with this, of course. ? Now while the Nordfab blast gates are powered pneumatically, they are controlled electrically by a solenoid attached to the pneumatic valve in the gate.?? When the solenoid is powered, air is routed to one end of a cylinder whose piston rod closes the gate;? when the solenoid is not powered, a return spring in the valve causes air to flow to the other end of the cylinder, which forces the gate to open.?? These solenoids operate either on 120VAC, or 24VDC, depending on the model.? ?The gates are very expensive, but I was lucky enough to have found a bunch of used ones on eBay for about $200.00 each?? (though I had to replace a couple of the cylinders at about $75.00 a pop). ? I built and programmed a dedicated computer system that I¡¯ve been intending to write up, that maintains all the gates closed when no machine is running, and which opens the gate for a given machine when a current sensor senses that the machine has been powered on.?? This works really well ¨C I don¡¯t have to bother to open or close the gates, and have the luxury of mounting the gates at ceiling level (9¡¯ in my case) which is optimal for the cyclone.? ? -????????? Rob
|
Re: Morso guillotine question
Meant ptf sorry Designing and building for 47 years
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 6, 2017, at 8:24 AM, mac campshure mac512002@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
You could go to ptft fittings Designing and building for 47 years
?
Rob,
That sounds complicated and a bit above my pay grade. I am sure if i was so mitivated i could figure it out but man imdid not u derstand the audimated blast gates would be such a project.?
The plumbing of the?air lines i expected and am not worried about. I?was wondering how the blast gates?get wired up to either a autostart or remote start.?
I guess if i am going to do this it would be nice if i could wire my machines somthat when i push the start button of my Felder machines the blast gate opens and the dust collector fires up.
If you do that writs u i would be interested as i have a good friend whom is very smart. He is way into computers, code, programing so forth and so on and understands electronics a bit also. He is actually a MIT grad that ended up a builder. Nope i dont quite understand that one except that its in his blood. His father was a carpenter, his grandfather was a carpenter so forth and so on.
Anyway, what do people do for remote or auto start on their Felder single phase?dust collectors. Or do most have three phase and use the adapter plug thing Felder sells. On Monday, February 6, 2017, 'Robert Shostak' rshostak1@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
Without taking this thread too far off track, I thought I¡¯d respond to the original poster¡¯s question regarding pneumatic blast gates.? ?? ? I¡¯m using the Nordfab SD and NFES blast gates, which are pneumatically powered, and am very pleased with them.?? The air is provided by the quiet Cal Air Tools 2HP, 10 ga. ?(the 10200C) that Brian Lamb had originally suggested, and that was recommended by a number of people earlier in this thread.?? This compressor can only supply 5.5 CFM at 90 psi, but that is adequate to operate the blast gates (one at a time, at least).?? ??A 1/8¡± polyurethane tube is home run from each gate to a manifold (mounted on one wall of the shop), and then to the compressor via ?¡±? copper pipe.?? My only complaint about the set-up is that there is enough air leakage in the system ¨C probably at the push connectors used with the tubing ¨C that the compressor has to turn on about every half hour ?even when the system is quiescent. ??A larger tank would help with this, of course. ? Now while the Nordfab blast gates are powered pneumatically, they are controlled electrically by a solenoid attached to the pneumatic valve in the gate.?? When the solenoid is powered, air is routed to one end of a cylinder whose piston rod closes the gate;? when the solenoid is not powered, a return spring in the valve causes air to flow to the other end of the cylinder, which forces the gate to open.?? These solenoids operate either on 120VAC, or 24VDC, depending on the model.? ?The gates are very expensive, but I was lucky enough to have found a bunch of used ones on eBay for about $200.00 each?? (though I had to replace a couple of the cylinders at about $75.00 a pop). ? I built and programmed a dedicated computer system that I¡¯ve been intending to write up, that maintains all the gates closed when no machine is running, and which opens the gate for a given machine when a current sensor senses that the machine has been powered on.?? This works really well ¨C I don¡¯t have to bother to open or close the gates, and have the luxury of mounting the gates at ceiling level (9¡¯ in my case) which is optimal for the cyclone.? ? -????????? Rob
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Re: Mirka Ceros the whole kit
Lance I use the old PB 300 with the Festool 6" blade which is still I believe around $300.00. If the jaws are adjusted properly and jigsaw supported properly it gives an accurate 90 degree cut through 4" hard maple. A lot of people don't like this model because it actually take a little skill and sensitive touch to adjust for highly accurate cuts but that's their problem not the jigsaw. I don't do enough jigsaw work to justify the Mafel which is really in the stupid zone for pricing that along with limited support in NA. Its also my understanding that you have to use Mafel's special blades to obtain that accurate cut through thick wood and materials.If I used a jigsaw everyday it would be worth trying but I'm lucky to use mine once a month. The only other consideration would be the recently released Bosch high end jigsaw but I have no experience with it as its been unobtainium this side of the border until recently.
?
Thanks for that, John. After going on six months since ordering the Pro 5, I'm once again looking forward to working with the tool once it arrives.
As for the jigsaw..., owner reviews had me interested once again in getting one of the Mafell P1's. The projects I do often require radius and elliptical plates out of 2x and 3x, and I've yet to find a jigsaw whose blade stays pointed where it was when entering the cut. The Mafell seemed closest to being able to do so but I couldn't get beyond that the US dollar had gained 30% against the Euro and yet the importer, rather than reflecting what should have been a price drop, had instead jacked up the price over $100.
Be well,
Lance |
?
Lance, I got 2 of the Festool Pro 5 sanders when they first came out and have used one of them on various projects. The first test was taking a rough sawn board cutoff about 20" long and 10" wide to a 4000 grit polish. The process started with 60 grit and worked up to 4000 grit. Now some would big deal that have no previous knowledge of Festool sanders. In this instance the original ETS 125 was a terrible sander that you could actually stall with heavier grits, it was strictly a fine finish sander. The new Pro5 is very difficult to stall. The brushless line of 5" and 6" ETS EC that came out a couple of years ago are low profile. lightweight extremely powerful sanders that if you ever have the chance might be worth looking into. I was actually considering the Deros before I got Festool ETS EC 150/5 and that's when dealer/friend suggested it was better to stick with Festool. He sells both so the sale was
his either way. They were basically the same price and his exact words were, if you really want to go with Mirka, buy 2, then you will have one to use when the other is being repaired. Since that time I have talked to others that I deal with and basically got the same response, with both guys telling me that they check every unit before they send it out because one in four doesn't even work, brand new. They have the sanders, don't promote them because of the issues but wants the Mirka sand paper business.
As far as Festool goes not all the tools are a cut above, especially for the amount they cost, the Kapex being one of the most overpriced units on the planet with a far amount of issues. The early Carvex jigsaws were terrible and some of the drills not so good. The integrated system approach is hard to beat with many others trying to catchup. The main issue I see being a longtime Festool user is people comparing
the latest and greatest tools from their favourite manufacturer whether it Makita, Dewalt or Bosch to something that has been part of Festool for a very longtime. The list of accessories that Festool makes for their tools is unmatched with crossover use very handy. The vac setups and accessories are second to none IMHO which include a boom arm and workstation attachment. Lots of room in this discussion for the Festool haters to jump in but if you haven't tried them you really can't discuss them. I too at one time thought they were overpriced for what you got and many of them still are and getting worse every year.
John
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Re: Morso guillotine question
You could go to ptft fittings Designing and building for 47 years
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 6, 2017, at 7:48 AM, patrick walsh pwalsh651@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
Rob,
That sounds complicated and a bit above my pay grade. I am sure if i was so mitivated i could figure it out but man imdid not u derstand the audimated blast gates would be such a project.?
The plumbing of the?air lines i expected and am not worried about. I?was wondering how the blast gates?get wired up to either a autostart or remote start.?
I guess if i am going to do this it would be nice if i could wire my machines somthat when i push the start button of my Felder machines the blast gate opens and the dust collector fires up.
If you do that writs u i would be interested as i have a good friend whom is very smart. He is way into computers, code, programing so forth and so on and understands electronics a bit also. He is actually a MIT grad that ended up a builder. Nope i dont quite understand that one except that its in his blood. His father was a carpenter, his grandfather was a carpenter so forth and so on.
Anyway, what do people do for remote or auto start on their Felder single phase?dust collectors. Or do most have three phase and use the adapter plug thing Felder sells. On Monday, February 6, 2017, 'Robert Shostak' rshostak1@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
Without taking this thread too far off track, I thought I¡¯d respond to the original poster¡¯s question regarding pneumatic blast gates.? ?? ? I¡¯m using the Nordfab SD and NFES blast gates, which are pneumatically powered, and am very pleased with them.?? The air is provided by the quiet Cal Air Tools 2HP, 10 ga. ?(the 10200C) that Brian Lamb had originally suggested, and that was recommended by a number of people earlier in this thread.?? This compressor can only supply 5.5 CFM at 90 psi, but that is adequate to operate the blast gates (one at a time, at least).?? ??A 1/8¡± polyurethane tube is home run from each gate to a manifold (mounted on one wall of the shop), and then to the compressor via ?¡±? copper pipe.?? My only complaint about the set-up is that there is enough air leakage in the system ¨C probably at the push connectors used with the tubing ¨C that the compressor has to turn on about every half hour ?even when the system is quiescent. ??A larger tank would help with this, of course. ? Now while the Nordfab blast gates are powered pneumatically, they are controlled electrically by a solenoid attached to the pneumatic valve in the gate.?? When the solenoid is powered, air is routed to one end of a cylinder whose piston rod closes the gate;? when the solenoid is not powered, a return spring in the valve causes air to flow to the other end of the cylinder, which forces the gate to open.?? These solenoids operate either on 120VAC, or 24VDC, depending on the model.? ?The gates are very expensive, but I was lucky enough to have found a bunch of used ones on eBay for about $200.00 each?? (though I had to replace a couple of the cylinders at about $75.00 a pop). ? I built and programmed a dedicated computer system that I¡¯ve been intending to write up, that maintains all the gates closed when no machine is running, and which opens the gate for a given machine when a current sensor senses that the machine has been powered on.?? This works really well ¨C I don¡¯t have to bother to open or close the gates, and have the luxury of mounting the gates at ceiling level (9¡¯ in my case) which is optimal for the cyclone.? ? -????????? Rob
|
Re: Mirka Ceros the whole kit
Thanks for that, John. After going on six months since ordering the Pro 5, I'm once again looking forward to working with the tool once it arrives.
As for the jigsaw..., owner reviews had me interested once again in getting one of the Mafell P1's. The projects I do often require radius and elliptical plates out of 2x and 3x, and I've yet to find a jigsaw whose blade stays pointed where it was when entering the cut. The Mafell seemed closest to being able to do so but I couldn't get beyond that the US dollar had gained 30% against the Euro and yet the importer, rather than reflecting what should have been a price drop, had instead jacked up the price over $100.
Be well,
Lance |
From:
John Kee jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] ;
To:
FOG ;
Subject:
Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit
Sent:
Mon, Feb 6, 2017 12:31:26 PM
?
Lance, I got 2 of the Festool Pro 5 sanders when they first came out and have used one of them on various projects. The first test was taking a rough sawn board cutoff about 20" long and 10" wide to a 4000 grit polish. The process started with 60 grit and worked up to 4000 grit. Now some would big deal that have no previous knowledge of Festool sanders. In this instance the original ETS 125 was a terrible sander that you could actually stall with heavier grits, it was strictly a fine finish sander. The new Pro5 is very difficult to stall. The brushless line of 5" and 6" ETS EC that came out a couple of years ago are low profile. lightweight extremely powerful sanders that if you ever have the chance might be worth looking into. I was actually considering the Deros before I got Festool ETS EC 150/5 and that's when dealer/friend suggested it was better to stick with Festool. He sells both so the sale was
his either way. They were basically the same price and his exact words were, if you really want to go with Mirka, buy 2, then you will have one to use when the other is being repaired. Since that time I have talked to others that I deal with and basically got the same response, with both guys telling me that they check every unit before they send it out because one in four doesn't even work, brand new. They have the sanders, don't promote them because of the issues but wants the Mirka sand paper business.
As far as Festool goes not all the tools are a cut above, especially for the amount they cost, the Kapex being one of the most overpriced units on the planet with a far amount of issues. The early Carvex jigsaws were terrible and some of the drills not so good. The integrated system approach is hard to beat with many others trying to catchup. The main issue I see being a longtime Festool user is people comparing
the latest and greatest tools from their favourite manufacturer whether it Makita, Dewalt or Bosch to something that has been part of Festool for a very longtime. The list of accessories that Festool makes for their tools is unmatched with crossover use very handy. The vac setups and accessories are second to none IMHO which include a boom arm and workstation attachment. Lots of room in this discussion for the Festool haters to jump in but if you haven't tried them you really can't discuss them. I too at one time thought they were overpriced for what you got and many of them still are and getting worse every year.
John |
?
John,
I've used a Festo track saw since the early 90's and love the tool.... best non-saw-guard ever with the saw body retracting up above the table..., bought the top Festool Jig saw (very unimpressed) in 2015 when doing a job on the road because the new Bosche wasn't available locally, but have yet to use a Festool sander. You, Brian and many others on the forum speak highly of them, and I've had a Pro 5 LTD ETS 125 on order since paying the Tool Nut $99 last Oct. 7th.
I would agree that the Makita and Dewalt sanders aren't in the same league as the Festool, Mirka and perhaps other higher end tools, and the integrated vacuum hose/cords both Mirka and Festool came out with are clever and especially handy if one stays with the respective tool lines...,
eapecially so in a shop where the sanding tasks are consistent.
But a current project had
challenges where no single sander line was the best choice. Along with "traditional" sanding tasks, on this project the 1/2" exterior wood bevel siding needed serious prep for paint on a 1925 Bungalow. I've known pro painters have preferred the Makita GV5000 (now replaced by the slightly more powerful GV5010) sanders mated to the 5" 3M Coating Removal Discs, which are 5/8" or so thick and so agressively sand both face and bottom edge of the siding course above simultaneously. Very handy and time saving. Because the GV5000's have no provision for dust collection, I drilled out the M8-1.25 threads and tapped them 5/16-24 to adapt the Mirka hook and loop pads on both of mine, using a leftover thin pocket door wrench to tighten to shaft, then bought and installed the very clever retrofit dust collection shields from Paintshaver, which surround the disc with a circular wall of brushes and do a fair job of capturing dust when
connected to the Makita VC4710
vacuum. To my knowledge, no other sander would collect dust better when using the 3M CD pads than what was used here, but I'm open to learning otherwise.
Paintshaver also makes a clever device which works like a plane but which has rotary carbide blades. Too rich for my blood, so I bought the comparable Metabo LF 724S for about half the price. Depth of cut is adjustable and tool is great for first pass of paint prep on challenging surfaces.
The Mirka Deros follows the 3M CRD treatment and works great feathering edges while erasing marks left from the more aggressive tools. Corners, tight spots and trim edges are finshed off using the Fein multimaster sander.
ALL of these tools connect to the VC4710 for dust collection. Neither the Festool nor the Mirka hoses with integrated cord would have helped in adapting all of these devices. With the knowledge I
process, I thought each of these tools, from various manufacturers and
with some adaptation best served challenges we faced in this applicaction.
Best,
Lance |
?
Unfortunately in my world Makita and Dewalt aren't even a consideration for sanders. I use alot of Makita but won't own Dewalt for love nor money.? I've been using Festool sanders for 9 years now without issue and currently have 6 I use regularly. I ?tried many including Mirka and Bosch. Taking the Mirka warning or don't I really don't care but when 3 different dealers I ?know tell me the same thing I have a tendency to take their advice.?
-------- Original message -------- From: " ianparkesy@... [felder-woodworking]" < felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com> Date: 2017-02-05 7:04 PM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit
?
mirka deros is great , mine works hard every day and is 2 years old now . so much lighter and easier to use than anything else out there . I had 2 makita random orbit before , they lasted well but were too heavy for anything but flat sanding on the bench . as for festool i can not see the value your just paying for the name as far as i can see. have had a few festool tools but dewalt and makita was better?
|
|
Re: Morso guillotine question
Rob,
That sounds complicated and a bit above my pay grade. I am sure if i was so mitivated i could figure it out but man imdid not u derstand the audimated blast gates would be such a project.?
The plumbing of the?air lines i expected and am not worried about. I?was wondering how the blast gates?get wired up to either a autostart or remote start.?
I guess if i am going to do this it would be nice if i could wire my machines somthat when i push the start button of my Felder machines the blast gate opens and the dust collector fires up.
If you do that writs u i would be interested as i have a good friend whom is very smart. He is way into computers, code, programing so forth and so on and understands electronics a bit also. He is actually a MIT grad that ended up a builder. Nope i dont quite understand that one except that its in his blood. His father was a carpenter, his grandfather was a carpenter so forth and so on.
Anyway, what do people do for remote or auto start on their Felder single phase?dust collectors. Or do most have three phase and use the adapter plug thing Felder sells.
?
Without taking this thread too far off track, I thought I¡¯d respond to the original poster¡¯s question regarding pneumatic blast gates.? ?? ? I¡¯m using the Nordfab SD and NFES blast gates, which are pneumatically powered, and am very pleased with them.?? The air is provided by the quiet Cal Air Tools 2HP, 10 ga. ?(the 10200C) that Brian Lamb had originally suggested, and that was recommended by a number of people earlier in this thread.?? This compressor can only supply 5.5 CFM at 90 psi, but that is adequate to operate the blast gates (one at a time, at least).?? ??A 1/8¡± polyurethane tube is home run from each gate to a manifold (mounted on one wall of the shop), and then to the compressor via ?¡±? copper pipe.?? My only complaint about the set-up is that there is enough air leakage in the system ¨C probably at the push connectors used with the tubing ¨C that the compressor has to turn on about every half hour ?even when the system is quiescent. ??A larger tank would help with this, of course. ? Now while the Nordfab blast gates are powered pneumatically, they are controlled electrically by a solenoid attached to the pneumatic valve in the gate.?? When the solenoid is powered, air is routed to one end of a cylinder whose piston rod closes the gate;? when the solenoid is not powered, a return spring in the valve causes air to flow to the other end of the cylinder, which forces the gate to open.?? These solenoids operate either on 120VAC, or 24VDC, depending on the model.? ?The gates are very expensive, but I was lucky enough to have found a bunch of used ones on eBay for about $200.00 each?? (though I had to replace a couple of the cylinders at about $75.00 a pop). ? I built and programmed a dedicated computer system that I¡¯ve been intending to write up, that maintains all the gates closed when no machine is running, and which opens the gate for a given machine when a current sensor senses that the machine has been powered on.?? This works really well ¨C I don¡¯t have to bother to open or close the gates, and have the luxury of mounting the gates at ceiling level (9¡¯ in my case) which is optimal for the cyclone.? ? -????????? Rob
|
Re: Mirka Ceros the whole kit
Lance, I got 2 of the Festool Pro 5 sanders when they first came out and have used one of them on various projects. The first test was taking a rough sawn board cutoff about 20" long and 10" wide to a 4000 grit polish. The process started with 60 grit and worked up to 4000 grit. Now some would big deal that have no previous knowledge of Festool sanders. In this instance the original ETS 125 was a terrible sander that you could actually stall with heavier grits, it was strictly a fine finish sander. The new Pro5 is very difficult to stall. The brushless line of 5" and 6" ETS EC that came out a couple of years ago are low profile. lightweight extremely powerful sanders that if you ever have the chance might be worth looking into. I was actually considering the Deros before I got Festool ETS EC 150/5 and that's when dealer/friend suggested it was better to stick with Festool. He sells both so the sale was his either way. They were basically the same price and his exact words were, if you really want to go with Mirka, buy 2, then you will have one to use when the other is being repaired. Since that time I have talked to others that I deal with and basically got the same response, with both guys telling me that they check every unit before they send it out because one in four doesn't even work, brand new. They have the sanders, don't promote them because of the issues but wants the Mirka sand paper business.
As far as Festool goes not all the tools are a cut above, especially for the amount they cost, the Kapex being one of the most overpriced units on the planet with a far amount of issues. The early Carvex jigsaws were terrible and some of the drills not so good. The integrated system approach is hard to beat with many others trying to catchup. The main issue I see being a longtime Festool user is people comparing the latest and greatest tools from their favourite manufacturer whether it Makita, Dewalt or Bosch to something that has been part of Festool for a very longtime. The list of accessories that Festool makes for their tools is unmatched with crossover use very handy. The vac setups and accessories are second to none IMHO which include a boom arm and workstation attachment. Lots of room in this discussion for the Festool haters to jump in but if you haven't tried them you really can't discuss them. I too at one time thought they were overpriced for what you got and many of them still are and getting worse every year.
John
?
John,
I've used a Festo track saw since the early 90's and love the tool.... best non-saw-guard ever with the saw body retracting up above the table..., bought the top Festool Jig saw (very unimpressed) in 2015 when doing a job on the road because the new Bosche wasn't available locally, but have yet to use a Festool sander. You, Brian and many others on the forum speak highly of them, and I've had a Pro 5 LTD ETS 125 on order since paying the Tool Nut $99 last Oct. 7th.
I would agree that the Makita and Dewalt sanders aren't in the same league as the Festool, Mirka and perhaps other higher end tools, and the integrated vacuum hose/cords both Mirka and Festool came out with are clever and especially handy if one stays with the respective tool lines..., eapecially so in a shop where the sanding tasks are consistent.
But a current project had
challenges where no single sander line was the best choice. Along with "traditional" sanding tasks, on this project the 1/2" exterior wood bevel siding needed serious prep for paint on a 1925 Bungalow. I've known pro painters have preferred the Makita GV5000 (now replaced by the slightly more powerful GV5010) sanders mated to the 5" 3M Coating Removal Discs, which are 5/8" or so thick and so agressively sand both face and bottom edge of the siding course above simultaneously. Very handy and time saving. Because the GV5000's have no provision for dust collection, I drilled out the M8-1.25 threads and tapped them 5/16-24 to adapt the Mirka hook and loop pads on both of mine, using a leftover thin pocket door wrench to tighten to shaft, then bought and installed the very clever retrofit dust collection shields from Paintshaver, which surround the disc with a circular wall of brushes and do a fair job of capturing dust when connected to the Makita VC4710
vacuum. To my knowledge, no other sander would collect dust better when using the 3M CD pads than what was used here, but I'm open to learning otherwise.
Paintshaver also makes a clever device which works like a plane but which has rotary carbide blades. Too rich for my blood, so I bought the comparable Metabo LF 724S for about half the price. Depth of cut is adjustable and tool is great for first pass of paint prep on challenging surfaces.
The Mirka Deros follows the 3M CRD treatment and works great feathering edges while erasing marks left from the more aggressive tools. Corners, tight spots and trim edges are finshed off using the Fein multimaster sander.
ALL of these tools connect to the VC4710 for dust collection. Neither the Festool nor the Mirka hoses with integrated cord would have helped in adapting all of these devices. With the knowledge I process, I thought each of these tools, from various manufacturers and
with some adaptation best served challenges we faced in this applicaction.
Best,
Lance |
?
Unfortunately in my world Makita and Dewalt aren't even a consideration for sanders. I use alot of Makita but won't own Dewalt for love nor money.? I've been using Festool sanders for 9 years now without issue and currently have 6 I use regularly. I ?tried many including Mirka and Bosch. Taking the Mirka warning or don't I really don't care but when 3 different dealers I ?know tell me the same thing I have a tendency to take their advice.?
-------- Original message -------- From: " ianparkesy@... [felder-woodworking]" < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> Date: 2017-02-05 7:04 PM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit
?
mirka deros is great , mine works hard every day and is 2 years old now . so much lighter and easier to use than anything else out there . I had 2 makita random orbit before , they lasted well but were too heavy for anything but flat sanding on the bench . as for festool i can not see the value your just paying for the name as far as i can see. have had a few festool tools but dewalt and makita was better?
|
|
Re: Mirka Ceros the whole kit
Also, there is the Mirka Smart Cart which holds all your sanding gear, including extractor:
http://www.mirkacollision.us/mirka-smart-cart.html
$698.75 here: http://www.abglovesandabrasives.com/body-shop-supplies/mirka-mai-cart-912-smart-cart-trolley-qty-1/
Or perhaps use some 1/4" rod bent as shown on the smart cart holding sanding heads and attached to the extractor? |
From:
Lance Clifford offaces@... [felder-woodworking] ;
To:
yahoogroups ;
Subject:
Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit
Sent:
Mon, Feb 6, 2017 6:13:35 AM
?
So Cliff,
Do you have the power supply mounting bracket to attach to the extractor with your Ceros setup?
http://www.acmetools.com/shop/tools/mirka-min6519111 |
From:
Cliff rohrabacher@... [felder-woodworking] ;
To:
;
Subject:
[felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit
Sent:
Sun, Feb 5, 2017 6:01:46 PM
?
I got a Mirka a while back when I restored my large living room. It was
great. I've used it a lot since.
I did the gorilla hose thing to make the power cord and vacuum hose all
one unit and that is a real improvement. Too bad they didn't make them
unified at design.
But it's still a bear to put away
The hose has to be coiled and there's nothing on the vacuum unit that
is designed to accommodate the hose and sander head.
I never liked the transformer location because of the on off switch
location. It's as if these parts were all brought together from
different suppliers with nary a thought about integration. YA gotta
reach around back and fiddle with the transformer switch, then to the
front for the main switch.
Any one figured out how to bring it all together into a smoother unit
with the switches all facing the front side a place to coil the hose
and a rest for the power head?
I know, it'll be crickets.
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Re: Mirka Ceros the whole kit
So Cliff,
Do you have the power supply mounting bracket to attach to the extractor with your Ceros setup?
http://www.acmetools.com/shop/tools/mirka-min6519111 |
From:
Cliff rohrabacher@... [felder-woodworking] ;
To:
;
Subject:
[felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit
Sent:
Sun, Feb 5, 2017 6:01:46 PM
?
I got a Mirka a while back when I restored my large living room. It was
great. I've used it a lot since.
I did the gorilla hose thing to make the power cord and vacuum hose all
one unit and that is a real improvement. Too bad they didn't make them
unified at design.
But it's still a bear to put away
The hose has to be coiled and there's nothing on the vacuum unit that
is designed to accommodate the hose and sander head.
I never liked the transformer location because of the on off switch
location. It's as if these parts were all brought together from
different suppliers with nary a thought about integration. YA gotta
reach around back and fiddle with the transformer switch, then to the
front for the main switch.
Any one figured out how to bring it all together into a smoother unit
with the switches all facing the front side a place to coil the hose
and a rest for the power head?
I know, it'll be crickets.
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Re: Morso guillotine question
Without taking this thread too far off track, I thought I¡¯d respond to the original poster¡¯s question regarding pneumatic blast gates.? ?? ? I¡¯m using the Nordfab SD and NFES blast gates, which are pneumatically powered, and am very pleased with them.?? The air is provided by the quiet Cal Air Tools 2HP, 10 ga. ?(the 10200C) that Brian Lamb had originally suggested, and that was recommended by a number of people earlier in this thread.?? This compressor can only supply 5.5 CFM at 90 psi, but that is adequate to operate the blast gates (one at a time, at least).?? ??A 1/8¡± polyurethane tube is home run from each gate to a manifold (mounted on one wall of the shop), and then to the compressor via ?¡±? copper pipe.?? My only complaint about the set-up is that there is enough air leakage in the system ¨C probably at the push connectors used with the tubing ¨C that the compressor has to turn on about every half hour ?even when the system is quiescent. ??A larger tank would help with this, of course. ? Now while the Nordfab blast gates are powered pneumatically, they are controlled electrically by a solenoid attached to the pneumatic valve in the gate.?? When the solenoid is powered, air is routed to one end of a cylinder whose piston rod closes the gate;? when the solenoid is not powered, a return spring in the valve causes air to flow to the other end of the cylinder, which forces the gate to open.?? These solenoids operate either on 120VAC, or 24VDC, depending on the model.? ?The gates are very expensive, but I was lucky enough to have found a bunch of used ones on eBay for about $200.00 each?? (though I had to replace a couple of the cylinders at about $75.00 a pop). ? I built and programmed a dedicated computer system that I¡¯ve been intending to write up, that maintains all the gates closed when no machine is running, and which opens the gate for a given machine when a current sensor senses that the machine has been powered on.?? This works really well ¨C I don¡¯t have to bother to open or close the gates, and have the luxury of mounting the gates at ceiling level (9¡¯ in my case) which is optimal for the cyclone.? ? -????????? Rob
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Re: Morso guillotine question
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Patrick,
The link is to a pdf in the FOG > Files folder. ? Navigate there - you¡¯re looking for a file called "RL-160 Pneumatic Filter Sweep Modification.pdf¡± ? At the time, I was too lazy to integrate the air cylinder inside the RL - I don¡¯t like being on my knees working overhead with a full face mask on. ? I haven¡¯t seen the Felder copy of this, but I¡¯m assuming they stuck the cylinder inside the machine - easy enough to do at your age, or if you have the ceiling height to elevate the RL160 with a forklift.
David Best
?
David i got a message "error occured during download".
Could you try and re post
Thank you, On Sunday, February 5, 2017, 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
?
David Best
On Feb 5, 2017, at 3:16 PM, patrick walsh pwalsh651@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
?
So what when i power the machine down it sneds a signal and moves the brushes over the filter or something like that.
On Sunday, February 5, 2017, John Kee jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
?
On the RL160 its just an air cylinder that moves the brushes back and forth when the machine is shutdown.
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Re: Mirka Ceros the whole kit
John,
I've used a Festo track saw since the early 90's and love the tool.... best non-saw-guard ever with the saw body retracting up above the table..., bought the top Festool Jig saw (very unimpressed) in 2015 when doing a job on the road because the new Bosche wasn't available locally, but have yet to use a Festool sander. You, Brian and many others on the forum speak highly of them, and I've had a Pro 5 LTD ETS 125 on order since paying the Tool Nut $99 last Oct. 7th.
I would agree that the Makita and Dewalt sanders aren't in the same league as the Festool, Mirka and perhaps other higher end tools, and the integrated vacuum hose/cords both Mirka and Festool came out with are clever and especially handy if one stays with the respective tool lines..., eapecially so in a shop where the sanding tasks are consistent.
But a current project had
challenges where no single sander line was the best choice. Along with "traditional" sanding tasks, on this project the 1/2" exterior wood bevel siding needed serious prep for paint on a 1925 Bungalow. I've known pro painters have preferred the Makita GV5000 (now replaced by the slightly more powerful GV5010) sanders mated to the 5" 3M Coating Removal Discs, which are 5/8" or so thick and so agressively sand both face and bottom edge of the siding course above simultaneously. Very handy and time saving. Because the GV5000's have no provision for dust collection, I drilled out the M8-1.25 threads and tapped them 5/16-24 to adapt the Mirka hook and loop pads on both of mine, using a leftover thin pocket door wrench to tighten to shaft, then bought and installed the very clever retrofit dust collection shields from Paintshaver, which surround the disc with a circular wall of brushes and do a fair job of capturing dust when connected to the Makita VC4710
vacuum. To my knowledge, no other sander would collect dust better when using the 3M CD pads than what was used here, but I'm open to learning otherwise.
Paintshaver also makes a clever device which works like a plane but which has rotary carbide blades. Too rich for my blood, so I bought the comparable Metabo LF 724S for about half the price. Depth of cut is adjustable and tool is great for first pass of paint prep on challenging surfaces.
The Mirka Deros follows the 3M CRD treatment and works great feathering edges while erasing marks left from the more aggressive tools. Corners, tight spots and trim edges are finshed off using the Fein multimaster sander.
ALL of these tools connect to the VC4710 for dust collection. Neither the Festool nor the Mirka hoses with integrated cord would have helped in adapting all of these devices. With the knowledge I process, I thought each of these tools, from various manufacturers and
with some adaptation best served challenges we faced in this applicaction.
Best,
Lance |
From:
John jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] ;
To:
FOG ;
Subject:
Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit
Sent:
Mon, Feb 6, 2017 12:31:05 AM
?
Unfortunately in my world Makita and Dewalt aren't even a consideration for sanders. I use alot of Makita but won't own Dewalt for love nor money. ?I've been using Festool sanders for 9 years now without issue and currently have 6 I use regularly. I ?tried many including Mirka and Bosch. Taking the Mirka warning or don't I really don't care but when 3 different dealers I ?know tell me the same thing I have a tendency to take their advice.?
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-------- Original message -------- From: "ianparkesy@... [felder-woodworking]" Date: 2017-02-05 7:04 PM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@... Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit
?
mirka deros is great , mine works hard every day and is 2 years old now . so much lighter and easier to use than anything else out there . I had 2 makita random orbit before , they lasted well but were too heavy for anything but flat sanding on the bench . as for festool i can not see the value your just paying for the name as far as i can see. have had a few festool tools but dewalt and makita was better?
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Re: Morso guillotine question
Patrick,
The link is to a pdf in the FOG > Files folder. ? Navigate there - you¡¯re looking for a file called "RL-160 Pneumatic Filter Sweep Modification.pdf¡± ? At the time, I was too lazy to integrate the air cylinder inside the RL - I don¡¯t like being on my knees working overhead with a full face mask on. ? I haven¡¯t seen the Felder copy of this, but I¡¯m assuming they stuck the cylinder inside the machine - easy enough to do at your age, or if you have the ceiling height to elevate the RL160 with a forklift.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
David i got a message "error occured during download".
Could you try and re post
Thank you, On Sunday, February 5, 2017, 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
David Best
?
So what when i power the machine down it sneds a signal and moves the brushes over the filter or something like that.
On Sunday, February 5, 2017, John Kee jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
?
On the RL160 its just an air cylinder that moves the brushes back and forth when the machine is shutdown.
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Re: Mirka Ceros the whole kit
Cliff,
Pricey, but would one of these Mirka vacuum hoses with integrated cord help at all?
https://www.amazon.com/Mirka-MVHA-5-Coaxial-Vacuum-Hose/dp/B00UL91KUY/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1486352091&sr=1-2&keywords=mirka+vacuum+hose
|
From:
Cliff rohrabacher@... [felder-woodworking] ;
To:
;
Subject:
[felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit
Sent:
Sun, Feb 5, 2017 6:01:46 PM
?
I got a Mirka a while back when I restored my large living room. It was
great. I've used it a lot since.
I did the gorilla hose thing to make the power cord and vacuum hose all
one unit and that is a real improvement. Too bad they didn't make them
unified at design.
But it's still a bear to put away
The hose has to be coiled and there's nothing on the vacuum unit that
is designed to accommodate the hose and sander head.
I never liked the transformer location because of the on off switch
location. It's as if these parts were all brought together from
different suppliers with nary a thought about integration. YA gotta
reach around back and fiddle with the transformer switch, then to the
front for the main switch.
Any one figured out how to bring it all together into a smoother unit
with the switches all facing the front side a place to coil the hose
and a rest for the power head?
I know, it'll be crickets.
|
|
Re: Mirka Ceros the whole kit
Another happy Deros user here. Used heavily and has proven reliable. The early batch of Deros switches proved not to be up to the task. Reengineered, the newer ones are working well so far.
Though I bought mine at my Oregon Tool in Coos Bay, OR, I'd spoken to the folks at Woodcrafters in Portland beforehand and they've had few issues with any of the many they've sold. |
From:
ianparkesy@... [felder-woodworking] ;
To:
;
Subject:
Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit
Sent:
Mon, Feb 6, 2017 12:04:22 AM
?
mirka deros is great , mine works hard every day and is 2 years old now . so much lighter and easier to use than anything else out there . I had 2 makita random orbit before , they lasted well but were too heavy for anything but flat sanding on the bench . as for festool i can not see the value your just paying for the name as far as i can see. have had a few festool tools but dewalt and makita was better?
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Cliff,
I have two of the 1hp models, one is the Rolair JC10, which has the same Chinese sourced oilless compressor motor that Cal Air Tool upgraded their line to in late 2015, the other more recent purchase is the Cal 2010AFLC which is from what they call their "Industrial Series". Both are the quietest compressors (rated 60db) I've yet to encounter. The Cal 2hp models are rated at 70db, so about twice as loud (comparable in sound level to my 100% duty cycle Thomas Airpac T2820 ST... my go to compressor on larger projects)'and the 4hp Cl compressors are rated 75db, so rougly 2.5 times as loud as the 1hp models...., still, some of the quietest compressors going.
My concern with the Cal Air tools compressors is reliability during extended use. The JC10 does get hot when used for extended periods. Still works fine, but concerning. Also, the parts, such as
guages, pressure switches, etc seem of low quality and their replacement parts asking prices for these items are high. One of the parts has developed a slight leak I've yet to have time to track down, but I'll be replacing the parts with American equivalents that actually cost less. I'd guess the Cal compressors would be considered 40% duty cycle if measured by the same yardstick as the 100% duty cycle Thomas compressors I've used for more than thrity years.
Just a few months ago I bought the 2010ALFC from their Industrial line, which supposedly has upgraded bearings and components and so far, so good. Great for interior jobsite work.
I'm interested to learn how reliable the larger Cal compressors prove over time when shown heavy use. I myself might get one for the shop if they do well..
Best,
Lance |
From:
Cliff rohrabacher@... [felder-woodworking]
To:
;
Subject:
Re: [felder-woodworking] Re: Quincy compressors
Sent:
Sat, Feb 4, 2017 1:59:22 PM
?
Yah I'm pretty much sold on the Cal Air Unit, I'll prolly have to
go the 4HP 20 gallon model because of the CFM it produces is
closest to my crapsman 5 HP model
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The original post was that it was all about noise reduction. ?It
was after reading about Quincy and Kaeser and Cal Air Tools (here)
that I purchased the Cal Air Tools 4HP 20 gal compressor with
drier, and quiet operation was a consideration for me. ?
I am very happy with it so far. ?It is very quiet. ?I was
thinking around the time of purchase that if I wanted it to be
even more quiet I could build an enclosure that offered some
soundproofing while allowing appropriate air flow, but now that
I have the unit, I have not found the need.
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Hi Jonathan. The AF 16 is listed at 3HP which probably means you're some distance short on pressure and CFM capability vs a CV Max or an RL 160. My CV pulls a bit over 4 HP with one 160mm drop open. The AF ?probably a 325mm dia impeller or thereabouts.?
Probably best all right not to oversize the drops with that fan.?
The choking effect of the 2x 100mm dia ports on the sander would anyway eliminate most of the benefit of fitting flexibles larger than their open area of 158cm2. Inceasing the vertical drop to 160mm dia above them (202cm2 open area) means it won't cause restriction - whereas your current 125mm dia drop (122cm2) would likely significantly reduce your CFM.?
I don't have much much feel for how large you could make the vertical/how much you could afford slow the airflow before running into transportation difficulties with fine sander dust - perhaps quite a lot unless there's lots of dust.?
Should the proposed 160mm dia new vertical cause any nervousness, you could use 150mm dia instead. ?(also a stock size) That would drop the open area from 202cm2 to 176cm2 - just marginally larger than the open area of the 2 x 100mm dia. Which would avoid choking, but also avoid dropping the airspeed.
The biggie to watch out for with that fan is any sort of choking of the open area below that of the 2 x 100mm (158cm2) ducts anywhere in the run.
ian
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Re: Morso guillotine question
Mac, that sounds sensible. I can¡¯t remember how many filters the RL250 has (I think 12), which are like columns and hung vertically. Like yours mine has compressed air outlets situated at the top of each filter, just inside, and blasts air from the clean side through to the dirty side. No venturi though. It¡¯s a serious air hog ¡ but appears to work nicely.
Warm regards, David
Dr David Luckensmeyer Practice Manager Luckensmeyer Medical Pty Ltd ?
and
Designer and Woodworker Original Designs in Wood ?
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Hi David,? My air pulse system has its own compressor on the Dust Hog and builds each individual programmed charge.
I don't think my system is as large as yours though.My unit puts the charge ?through a venturi that increases the blast from the inside out from in the filter to dirty side to drop into the hopper. mac,,,
?? ? martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-332-2330 cell 608-824-0023 fax Designing and building for 46 years
?The exception may be the filter cleaning option for the RL units.
Indeed. Definitely the exception. The pulsed air cleaning system on the RL250 seems to take all the air it can get. I have a 17 CFM rotary compressor and a 400L receiver, kept between 100-140psi.
If the receiver happens to be near 140psi when the cleaning cycle kicks in, then the compressor does not have to supplement the receiver. Under 130psi, and enough air is used to require a receiver top up.?
Also, there is a distinct difference in the cleaning "power" of the RL cleaning system at high pressures versus lower pressures. This is anecdotal only, but the cleaning system is much louder (bang bang!) at those higher pressures.?
Without a big receiver, you're going to need a fairly biggish system to keep up with the RL250s air needs. IMHO.?
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Re: Morso guillotine question
Hi David,? My air pulse system has its own compressor on the Dust Hog and builds each individual programmed charge.
I don't think my system is as large as yours though.My unit puts the charge ?through a venturi that increases the blast from the inside out from in the filter to dirty side to drop into the hopper. mac,,,
?? ? martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-332-2330 cell 608-824-0023 fax
Designing and building for 46 years
From: "Luckensmeyer David dhluckens@... [felder-woodworking]"
To: felder-woodworking@...
Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2017 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Morso guillotine question
?
The exception may be the filter cleaning option for the RL units.
Indeed. Definitely the exception. The pulsed air cleaning system on the RL250 seems to take all the air it can get. I have a 17 CFM rotary compressor and a 400L receiver, kept between 100-140psi.
If the receiver happens to be near 140psi when the cleaning cycle kicks in, then the compressor does not have to supplement the receiver. Under 130psi, and enough air is used to require a receiver top up.?
Also, there is a distinct difference in the cleaning "power" of the RL cleaning system at high pressures versus lower pressures. This is anecdotal only, but the cleaning system is much louder (bang bang!) at those higher pressures.?
Without a big receiver, you're going to need a fairly biggish system to keep up with the RL250s air needs. IMHO.?
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David P. Best
David Luckensmeyer