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Floor Finishing - Oak/Cherry/Walnut
HI
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in line with recent discussions but a little off the main threads, i too am hopeing to do the wood work in a new Chalet Conversion in France and was wondering what the general advice is around solid (natural) wooden floors v's engineered in an underfloor heating situtation (electric). The system would be run at 14 degrees all year, with 18-19 in winter in reception, living and bedrooms with Bathrooms at 22 in winter which are tiled. RH is usually around 30-50% but increases in wet areas obiviously which are all tiled.?
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My plan is to have the floor up to tempeature, bring in the boards to aclimatize for 60-90 days before laying, stacked and sticked, after milling? and running through the spindle, then lay loose for 30 days before final fixing, sanding and finishing with Rubio Monocoat Pure Oil.
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I would ensure the boards are secret fixed on the grouve and allow 1mm gap for swelling in each board of 3 mm over 5 maybe. Would welcome any advice the goup has to offer and i do appreciate this is a challanging subject and location, type etc will all influence the final product.
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My architect is pushing prefinished engineered boards on me and I am very reluctant to move, even though i have 30 years of engineering & design background.
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Thanks
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Colum? |
Re: Finishing sapele
Thank you Netanel, Mac, Henrik, Tom for your replies and Brett for a very comprehensive response, really appreciate it guys!
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As some of you already know I¡¯m building my house with the idea of doing all the woodwork myself ( if I can manage it all and my wife stays patient ). The flooring, except for a kitchen and wet areas, will also be sapele (engineered due to radiant heating). The flooring is pre oiled and I will put another layer of oil on it once it¡¯s installed. Somehow the manufacturer was able to fill in the pores (do not know how and they are not willing to share - they for sure used Osmo to pre oil it). It looks great and natural. I want to get the kitchen cabinets close to what the floor looks like. The kitchen will have tiled floor, so it will not be a direct comparison situation. I had thought about using hard wax oil, but our kitchen gets constant use and we are not overly careful, so cabinet doors get wet and have to be cleaned very often, so I do not think oil is the way to go. I may have to use something like what Tom suggested, conversion varnish or lacquer, but I do not want it to look like plastic either, so I may have to do multiple tests to figure out what is acceptable. Your suggestion already give me a great start. Thank you once again!
Mariusz |
RL125 seal replacement
#dustcollection
#NeedAdvice
Hello,
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I¡¯m trying to determine how to place the new seals I have on order from McMaster. ?For those that were successful on the newer RL units, did you cut holes in the seals for the hold-down bolts? ?I think this would allow for a better seal but I¡¯m not sure how it is supposed to be after opening mine up. ?Also, does anyone have a part number for replacement brushes and this sock-like item?
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I bought this last year from a commercial shop for 1/5th of new; this was when I was almost ready to buy a new one, so the risk was worth it since it came with a new filter and the rest of the machine is in good shape. ?Thanks. ?
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Andrew
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Re: Finishing sapele
???? I only use wax/oils for furniture. If I'm doing a kitchen or bath or something where I want durability, my go to is Sherwin Williams Water White Conversion Varnish.? It's sold in their industrial finish stores. I use the gloss thinned? about 70% on the first coat. Then less thinner for the second coat and the final coat I use the Dull Rub finish. It has to be sprayed. This does give you a plastic look somewhat, but it's really a lot more durable than oils. I remember years ago I had a client that made me use an oil finish on some birds eye maple kitchen cabinets. It wasn't a month before they asked me to take it off and put on something better. Good luck, Tom Ruth |
Re: Finishing sapele
? I rarely grain fill unless it is a special "table" style surface or a very fine piece of furniture. Cabinets are rare. With sapele and mahogany both, sometimes surface-tension effects with the finish product in the grain texture of your finish coatings will telegraph and suggest need to grain fill. Sometimes after cutting back to plane after the sealing coat it all behaves nicely with no need to grain fill, though it will still be open-pore.? ?? Many grain filler methods exist. They all mean lots more work in the process compared to simple clear coating sapele.? *Oil-based varnishing grain fillers (think peanut-butter consistency) from pro finish suppliers like ML Campbell, Mohawk, others, custom tinted. Smear, rub, let cure, sand, continue with finishing colors and coats. *French-polish/Hand rubbing modern variants of hand working in finishes to the voids. This is laborious and expensive no matter how you try it.?
Old-school methods can have incompatibility with new-school high performance finishes so?you might have to compromise. Varnishes can do great things for ease of filling but then take forever to set. Shellacs are traditional but getting harder to find and more expensive all the time. People like their hardwaxes and low-sheen modern formulations of modern miracles, I personally have reservations but can't deny their ease of use for application and low hazard environment. *Aquacoat clear grain filler - unique stuff in a water based resin that stays clear, dries clear. I've always taken issue with their claim "sands easy", more like sanding bound crystalline silica and can dry fast requiring....lots more sanding labor to get back to plane. Have you ever had success sanding glass? Give it a try. * Glazing putty - like the auto repair Bondo variety - can be tinted off-label use if the color family is right , most of them are grey, blue, or red to start with so be creative.? *You can take your own sawdust and make a grain filler too - results are mixed based upon how you do the mixing and what binder choices (usually thinned glue or finish product) were employed. *Fill lots of clear coats to a "Hi Bild" (trade grammar) and cut back until pore texture is acceptable. Often easier on slower-curing coatings because they have more flowout?to level in the?bottoms of the pores.This is variable levels of hell pending how long you want the job to take and how much finish you are willing to pay for and waste in cutting back for open-pore woods. On Mon, Nov 11, 2024 at 8:51?AM mac campshure via <mac512002=[email protected]> wrote:
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Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@... |
Re: Finishing sapele
Hi Mariusz?
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I have used sapele in cabinets and I don't think the pores cause any problems. I use hard wax oil in several thin coatings. The first seals, the second fills the pores and then a thin third or fourth layer to get a durable surface and a nice look. I use "Osmo 3032 clear satin", but I don't know if you have it where you live.
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You get the look of the second picture with the quarter sawn sapele:
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//Henrik
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Re: Finishing sapele
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýMarius? I¡¯m not gonna be much help on finishing I think with finer furniture used to be finished They used French polish which used Plaster Paris filler I think and then a shellac surface over that. Best mac,, martin/campshure/co/ll Designing and building for 50 years On Nov 11, 2024, at 7:21?AM, netanel.belgazal via groups.io <netanel.belgazal@...> wrote:
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Finishing sapele
I decided on using Sapele for my kitchen cabinets and I will be running some finishing tests to determine what kind of finish we like best. I have not worked with sapele before and I¡¯m looking for suggestions on what I should try. I really like the color of it, but I find it too porous for kitchen cabinets. What should I use to fill the pores; some sort of sanding sealer; shellac or something else? Also, what would you recommend for final durable finish? ? Any and all tips will be greatly appreciated! Thank you! Mariusz |
Re: Some questions on the Overhead Guard
i messed up trying to post earlier?on this topic., so will try again. I did send Dennis a pic in case it might be useful, and he sent a gracious response. I am pretty?frugal and the old italian saw I bought a couple years ago for $1000 and a drive to Detroit did not have an overarm dust collector which was the least of my concerns when rebuilding it.? After a year or so and getting cleaned up and running, I found a used Saw Stop overarm on Craigslist for $300 that was closer to home, and I bought it and installed and was satisfied, but not impressed.? ?First pic.? The little 3 inch flex did not allow much air through even though my DC is a 5hp cyclone outside the shop with no filters on the exhaust. Then I got a pair of wonderful air clamps from an incredible machinist and? clamp maker I know, (tripling the value of my saw) and the 3 in flex hose of the Saw Stop interfered with the clamps as they?passed it.? The guard on the Saw Stop?was not long enough to cover the scoring blade well, so I decided to make a new guard that was longer, and could accomodate?a 4 inch hose.? The main arm of the Saw Stop?is 4" od tubing, so I bought a 3 ft long piece of 4 inch tube and fabricated a Y that a short piece of?4" flex could feed directly to the 4" main of the saw stop. Then fabricated a longer guard the same shape as the original so that the elevation adjustment of the original would still work. Second pic.? My saw is powered by a pair of VFD's (One for each motor) which I have found to be troublefree, and they made the addition of a kill switch for both motors in the overarm hood a simple task subsequent to the pics, which is the way I turn off the saw almost every time i use it. Final thing that will confirm my being a little on the spectrum is that my DC mains are under the concrete, and the port in the floor behind the saw isn't? visible in these pics. Mike On Thu, Nov 7, 2024 at 4:47?PM Denno via <dennis=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: Some questions on the Overhead Guard
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýTom, I have a lock that might be original I forget ?but I set mine above the material quickly and lock. I also replaced the dampers and values . I have been happy with the gray felder guard. martin/campshure/co/llc Designing and building for 50 years On Nov 10, 2024, at 6:02?PM, Tom Trees via groups.io <tomgwoodworks@...> wrote:
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Re: Some questions on the Overhead Guard
Tom,
I believe that is just an adjustable height stop. I¡¯ll look at it tomorrow. If I can get more height from the guard I might remove it. I can see no reason why I would want to lock the guard in one position. The up and down movement of the Suva is fairly stiff and it will stay in position. You also want to be able to get these guards out of the way fast when needed for certain joinery operations. I find I am up and down with it a lot. Same with the motorized guard on the T72. They only did that one for a few years. I actually like the ease of movement on the newer Martin saws that are non motorized. |
Re: Some questions on the Overhead Guard
Martin, would love to know if you have a more detailed thread on the construction of your guard?
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Joe, I've only noticed the "tab" (with the allen head bolt) fairly recently, and couldn't see it previously
on the zoomed in pics of your SUVA guard.
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It seems to me, that this could be some kind of feature which could make the guard rigid...
though from what you mentioned on the Creek recently,
I'm getting the impression that it's simply there to stop the guard from lifting too high?
I'd love to know if it could be made solid rather than floating, and from looking at various pics of guards on the web,
kinda gotten keen on the dump truck lever designs for some reason or other.
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Cheers
Tom
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Re: Some questions on the Overhead Guard
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A little sawdust on the table would help my self esteem.? Dave
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Joe Calhoon via groups.io <joecalhoon@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2024 5:22 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [FOG] Some questions on the Overhead Guard ?
I made an overhead guard for my T17 with help from my welding friend. 3¡± and 2 1/2¡± tube. Bought a Suva blade guard. Looked at a lot of aftermarket guards but could find nothing that fit the saw.
This was an expensive undertaking but no wiggles on this one either! |
Re: Some questions on the Overhead Guard
I made an overhead guard for my T17 with help from my welding friend. 3¡± and 2 1/2¡± tube. Bought a Suva blade guard. Looked at a lot of aftermarket guards but could find nothing that fit the saw.
This was an expensive undertaking but no wiggles on this one either! |
Re: Some questions on the Overhead Guard
Mac, that is a really nice setup. I planned on using a 2x2 x 3/16 tube for my main vertical support, but I think you may have changed my mind to use a 5x5 x 1/8 tube that I have here left over from another project.
Might even increase my horizontal tubes to 2 1/2 - depends on what I find in the remnant pile tomorrow at the steel shop.
I really like the beefy look and for that I am often accused of over-building, but I also hate stuff that wiggles.
I like the idea of the jacks on the bottom too.
Thanks much for the pictures.
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Kamal, thanks for the link to the video - that helps a lot also.
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(Was supposed to get the saw yesterday - but it never showed up so will hope for this coming week. At least the driver was nice enough to call and told me they did not have enough time for my stop.)
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Dennis
Payson, AZ |
Re: Some questions on the Overhead Guard
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýFYI Unit was built with 700 series Felder horizontal gray post the rest of it. I¡¯m manufactured myself. The horizontal column is lined with HUMW vertical post is 6 x 6 tubular steel has jacks on the floor and bolted to the body of the machine 50 inch rip capacity 22 inch clear crosscut? Dust 80 to Hundred. Hood. is quickly removable Or the whole horizontal assembly just slips out when I¡¯m shaping. Over arm doesn¡¯t wiggle. All welded and bolted construction. Maybe 15 years old Mac,, martin/campshure/co/llc Designing and building for 50 years On Nov 9, 2024, at 9:03?AM, KRPatel via groups.io <kamalsonal@...> wrote:
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