On Jan 6, 2021, at 5:06 PM, imranindiana via <imranindiana@...> wrote:

According to someone the saw in this sale had double turnip. It has xroll ad can be seen in pics.

Imran

On Jan 6, 2021, at 6:24 PM, bacchus6015 via <joeinno@...> wrote:

?Brian,

I agree, the double trunnion and X-roll are definitely better.

Joe

On Jan 6, 2021, at 3:20 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:

?It’s not a strength thing, it’s an adjustment thing. If the trunnion is out of adjustment, it’s a pretty complicated process to get it right. Felder themselves went to the double trunnion because the single trunnion was more of a maintenance issue and not easy adjusted in the field without tricky jigs or hit and miss type efforts.

The older machines have some short comings, first, if they are as old as mine, you don’t have the X-roll slider, which was a pretty significant upgrade in these machines. Next major design change was the double trunnion. That’s not to say a single trunnion machine can’t be used, but if I had my choices, any new purchase for me would have to have the X-roll and double trunnion, those two things are going to make for longevity and accuracy compared to those machines without.

It’s up to the user/purchaser’s level of competence in doing complicated setting up of the machine as to wether they feel comfortable delving into the single trunnion machine design.

Brian Lamb
blamb11@...

On Jan 6, 2021, at 2:04 PM, bacchus6015 via <joeinno@...> wrote:

Brian,

I know that but I was wondering what Mike thought.

I ran 40 pound cutters on the year 2000 F700z I had with single trunnion and it worked. ?Hansjorg Felder told me the single trunnion was strong enough when I toured the Felder factory. ?

That said I would not recommend running 40 pound cutters for production but a hobby user running 6 or even 8” cutters on a single trunnion will be fine.

I think price is the limiting factor for this lot but I would not worry about the trunnions.?

Joe

On Jan 6, 2021, at 11:50 AM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:

The older machines have a single trunnion affair and it supports the whole spindle and motor system on one end of the assembly. This brings into account an adjustment nightmare dealing with “angle of the dangle” as well as toe-in and toe-out in the other direction. Failure to get the angle correct creates all sorts of issues when tilting the saw/shaper aggregate.

All that said, my old machine is of this design and once set, it’s pretty stable. If I was looking for a machine though, it would be the double trunnion machine… more easily adjusted and has better longevity of settings, and with the polymer materials used in the trunnion the smoothness and easiness of tilting is considerably better.

Brian Lamb
blamb11@...

On Jan 6, 2021, at 12:40 PM, bacchus6015 via??<joeinno@...> wrote:

Mike,

What are the Trunion issues?

Joe

On Jan 6, 2021, at 9:50 AM, Mike Barrow via??<lunatuna23@...> wrote:

For a lot of reasons and assistance from some amazing people on FOG, I have backed out of this deal. ?The accessories and tooling are great, but the high price, age and trunnion issues make this offering good from afar, but far from good. ?Unfortunately, the seller will not part out the tooling and/or accessories and prefers to sell as a package deal. ?

Back on the search and contemplating buying new.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts!
--?
Mike Barrow

On Jan 6, 2021, at 7:20 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:

?

[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: turnip? not even one but two. that is a deal, LOL]

According to another poster the saw in this sale has double turnion. It has xroll as can be seen in pics.

?

Imran

On Jan 6, 2021, at 6:24 PM, bacchus6015 via groups.io <joeinno@...> wrote:

Brian,

?

I agree, the double trunnion and X-roll are definitely better.

?

Joe

?

On Jan 6, 2021, at 3:20 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:

It’s not a strength thing, it’s an adjustment thing. If the trunnion is out of adjustment, it’s a pretty complicated process to get it right. Felder themselves went to the double trunnion because the single trunnion was more of a maintenance issue and not easy adjusted in the field without tricky jigs or hit and miss type efforts.

?

The older machines have some short comings, first, if they are as old as mine, you don’t have the X-roll slider, which was a pretty significant upgrade in these machines. Next major design change was the double trunnion. That’s not to say a single trunnion machine can’t be used, but if I had my choices, any new purchase for me would have to have the X-roll and double trunnion, those two things are going to make for longevity and accuracy compared to those machines without.

?

It’s up to the user/purchaser’s level of competence in doing complicated setting up of the machine as to wether they feel comfortable delving into the single trunnion machine design.

Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com

On Jan 6, 2021, at 2:04 PM, bacchus6015 via <joeinno@...> wrote:

Brian,

?

I know that but I was wondering what Mike thought.

?

I ran 40 pound cutters on the year 2000 F700z I had with single trunnion and it worked. ?Hansjorg Felder told me the single trunnion was strong enough when I toured the Felder factory. ?

?

That said I would not recommend running 40 pound cutters for production but a hobby user running 6 or even 8” cutters on a single trunnion will be fine.

?

I think price is the limiting factor for this lot but I would not worry about the trunnions.?

?

Joe

?

On Jan 6, 2021, at 11:50 AM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:

The older machines have a single trunnion affair and it supports the whole spindle and motor system on one end of the assembly. This brings into account an adjustment nightmare dealing with “angle of the dangle” as well as toe-in and toe-out in the other direction. Failure to get the angle correct creates all sorts of issues when tilting the saw/shaper aggregate.

?

All that said, my old machine is of this design and once set, it’s pretty stable. If I was looking for a machine though, it would be the double trunnion machine… more easily adjusted and has better longevity of settings, and with the polymer materials used in the trunnion the smoothness and easiness of tilting is considerably better.

Brian Lamb
blamb11@...

On Jan 6, 2021, at 12:40 PM, bacchus6015 via??<joeinno@...> wrote:

Mike,

?

What are the Trunion issues?

?

?

Joe

?

On Jan 6, 2021, at 9:50 AM, Mike Barrow via??<lunatuna23@...> wrote:

For a lot of reasons and assistance from some amazing people on FOG, I have backed out of this deal. ?The accessories and tooling are great, but the high price, age and trunnion issues make this offering good from afar, but far from good. ?Unfortunately, the seller will not part out the tooling and/or accessories and prefers to sell as a package deal. ?

Back on the search and contemplating buying new.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts!
--?
Mike Barrow

Anyone fitted a spiral cutter block onto a BF6 combi machine?

On Jan 6, 2021, at 3:48 PM, David Davies <myfinishingtouch@...> wrote:

Joe,

? Did you take all of your fused glass with you?? Beautiful stuff.

Dave Davies

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 5:10 PM bacchus6015 via??<joeinno=[email protected]> wrote:

One nice things about a french cleat is that the thing hanging on the cleat can be leveled by placing shims between the halves of the cleat. ?

We hang a lot of art work with french cleats.? Also, most of the shelves and things on the walls in my recently liquidated shop hung on French cleats.

Joe

On Jan 6, 2021, at 2:54 PM, imranindiana via??<imranindiana@...> wrote:

David,

That makes perfect sense. There is brick, on the wall, where this is going. I know the guy whose house it is going in but I am primarily helping my neighbor who decided to take up this challenge.?Brick does add some mounting challenges that i will need to figure out.

After all the suggestions, I have to say that I would not have considered french cleat (thanks Joe). I have a hutch hanging with french cleat in my shop and I am certain it weighs twice, if not more, than the mantle.

The simplicity of a mounting block is still attractive. I do not see why it would sag. The mounting block should not move once secured to the wall. The pocket done (in the rear of the mantle) on shaper should be precise and with .005” capability on the planer i can make the mounting block fit like a glove. I think a hardwood mounting block will hold screws better and reduce chances of sagging.

Imran

On Jan 6, 2021, at 5:09 PM,?david@...?via??<david@...> wrote:

?Yea, if you did that you’d have to sheetrock down to the mantle after.? In the case I was working on, we had gone back to the studs throughout the house, installed the brackets (for the mantle and a large bench in the DR under a bay window), did the rough electric and plumbing, then insulated with foam, installed the sheetrock and got that finished up, then installed the mantle against the sheetrock.

David Best

On Jan 6, 2021, at 12:19 PM, imranindiana via??<imranindiana@...> wrote:

David,

Thanks for the details. I guess if I were to do this, i will probably epoxy the brackets in the mantle and then bolt the verticals to the studs while keeping mantle level. This on account of my ability to free hand drill as required to do this right.

Imran

On Jan 6, 2021, at 1:22 PM,?david@...?via??<david@...> wrote:

?Imran,

Here’s the drawing.? Don’t underestimate the racking force here.? The brackets ended up costing $150 and took 30 minutes to fabricate.

<screenshot_4605.jpeg>

David Best

On Jan 5, 2021, at 10:15 PM, imranindiana via??<imranindiana@...> wrote:

After reading, I realized it would be better to screw the mantle to the blocking from top vs bottom.

Imran?

On Jan 6, 2021, at 1:00 AM, imranindiana via??<imranindiana@...> wrote:

?So a friend wants a live edge mantle from an Ash log. He already has the log cut on the band mill. It is 11” deep (sticking out from wall) and 7.5” tall (vertical). The mantle will be 5’ long.

I can run the 11” wide top on the jointer and then make the back 90 deg to it. Finally run it thru planer to get the bottom parallel to the top.

I need to return each end of the mantle so will need to cut 45s. I plan to do each 45 deg cut in two passes (due to 7”+ thickness) with material on one side of the xcut fence and then flipped and placed on the other side of the xcut fence. I have not done this so far.

Finally i can plough a recess on the back side on all 3 pieces for mounting purpose and process a piece of wood that fits perfectly in the recess. With this piece mounted on the wall the mantle can be pushed on it and screwed from bottom. I can easily plough about 3” deep. Is that deep enough for a 11” deep mantle?

I know there are many mounting options out there but would like to find out if what i described would work?

Imran

--?

Dave & Marie Davies

318-219-7868

On Jan 6, 2021, at 4:07 PM, Bill James via <xxrb2010@...> wrote:

Looking for advices,

I am building floating (not touching the floor) lower closet cabinets and plan to put a hardwood panel glue-up on top. The assembly will be located in a recessed area and bumped into drywall on tree sides. So, no space for expansion on the sides, space for extension in front only.

I am wondering if I need to use something like you can see on this web page to fix the glue-up panel to the top of the lower cabinet?

Or I can be good with large holes (like Domino type holes) in the cabinet top and screw with washer to allow for movement.

Thanks,

Bill

On Jan 1, 2021, at 23:26, joelgelman via groups.io <joelgelman@...> wrote:

?Curious to know what that costs new and what it will go for.

FYI. ?The listing says $45,000 CDN ($35,349 USD) new. ?

So interesting to see the 6k USD current bid. ?Makes you think it will be a steal, but all that of course changes in the last 15 minutes, especially when I am bidding on something.

On Jan 6, 2021, at 3:20 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:

?It’s not a strength thing, it’s an adjustment thing. If the trunnion is out of adjustment, it’s a pretty complicated process to get it right. Felder themselves went to the double trunnion because the single trunnion was more of a maintenance issue and not easy adjusted in the field without tricky jigs or hit and miss type efforts.

The older machines have some short comings, first, if they are as old as mine, you don’t have the X-roll slider, which was a pretty significant upgrade in these machines. Next major design change was the double trunnion. That’s not to say a single trunnion machine can’t be used, but if I had my choices, any new purchase for me would have to have the X-roll and double trunnion, those two things are going to make for longevity and accuracy compared to those machines without.

It’s up to the user/purchaser’s level of competence in doing complicated setting up of the machine as to wether they feel comfortable delving into the single trunnion machine design.

Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com

On Jan 6, 2021, at 2:04 PM, bacchus6015 via <joeinno@...> wrote:

Brian,

I know that but I was wondering what Mike thought.

I ran 40 pound cutters on the year 2000 F700z I had with single trunnion and it worked. ?Hansjorg Felder told me the single trunnion was strong enough when I toured the Felder factory. ?

That said I would not recommend running 40 pound cutters for production but a hobby user running 6 or even 8” cutters on a single trunnion will be fine.

I think price is the limiting factor for this lot but I would not worry about the trunnions.?

Joe

On Jan 6, 2021, at 11:50 AM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:

The older machines have a single trunnion affair and it supports the whole spindle and motor system on one end of the assembly. This brings into account an adjustment nightmare dealing with “angle of the dangle” as well as toe-in and toe-out in the other direction. Failure to get the angle correct creates all sorts of issues when tilting the saw/shaper aggregate.

All that said, my old machine is of this design and once set, it’s pretty stable. If I was looking for a machine though, it would be the double trunnion machine… more easily adjusted and has better longevity of settings, and with the polymer materials used in the trunnion the smoothness and easiness of tilting is considerably better.

Brian Lamb
blamb11@...

On Jan 6, 2021, at 12:40 PM, bacchus6015 via??<joeinno@...> wrote:

Mike,

What are the Trunion issues?

Joe

On Jan 6, 2021, at 9:50 AM, Mike Barrow via??<lunatuna23@...> wrote:

For a lot of reasons and assistance from some amazing people on FOG, I have backed out of this deal. ?The accessories and tooling are great, but the high price, age and trunnion issues make this offering good from afar, but far from good. ?Unfortunately, the seller will not part out the tooling and/or accessories and prefers to sell as a package deal. ?

Back on the search and contemplating buying new.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts!
--?
Mike Barrow

On Jan 6, 2021, at 2:04 PM, bacchus6015 via <joeinno@...> wrote:

Brian,

I know that but I was wondering what Mike thought.

I ran 40 pound cutters on the year 2000 F700z I had with single trunnion and it worked. ?Hansjorg Felder told me the single trunnion was strong enough when I toured the Felder factory. ?

That said I would not recommend running 40 pound cutters for production but a hobby user running 6 or even 8” cutters on a single trunnion will be fine.

I think price is the limiting factor for this lot but I would not worry about the trunnions.?

Joe

On Jan 6, 2021, at 11:50 AM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:

The older machines have a single trunnion affair and it supports the whole spindle and motor system on one end of the assembly. This brings into account an adjustment nightmare dealing with “angle of the dangle” as well as toe-in and toe-out in the other direction. Failure to get the angle correct creates all sorts of issues when tilting the saw/shaper aggregate.

All that said, my old machine is of this design and once set, it’s pretty stable. If I was looking for a machine though, it would be the double trunnion machine… more easily adjusted and has better longevity of settings, and with the polymer materials used in the trunnion the smoothness and easiness of tilting is considerably better.

Brian Lamb
blamb11@...

On Jan 6, 2021, at 12:40 PM, bacchus6015 via??<joeinno@...> wrote:

Mike,

What are the Trunion issues?

Joe

On Jan 6, 2021, at 9:50 AM, Mike Barrow via??<lunatuna23@...> wrote:

For a lot of reasons and assistance from some amazing people on FOG, I have backed out of this deal. ?The accessories and tooling are great, but the high price, age and trunnion issues make this offering good from afar, but far from good. ?Unfortunately, the seller will not part out the tooling and/or accessories and prefers to sell as a package deal. ?

Back on the search and contemplating buying new.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts!
--?
Mike Barrow

On Jan 6, 2021, at 2:21 PM, imranindiana via <imranindiana@...> wrote:

And then there is the occasional young kid or an old young at heart kid that wants to hang from the floating mantle ????

Imran?

On Jan 6, 2021, at 4:49 PM, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote:

?A little math, and envisioning of the physics can also be useful.? Your mantle timber weighs about 130 pounds (2.8 cu ft x 45#/cu ft). Assuming studs on 16" centers, you'll have three studs to attach to, so each stud attachment point is carrying 43 lbs.? You can envision the attachment forces as hanging a 43 lbs weight at the center of gravity of the timber, like this drawing.? There are downward shearing forces on the cleat (blue), tension forces pulling outward on the screw (red), and compression forces pushing against the wall (yellow)

It's probably intuitively obvious that these are not large forces and a simple french cleat is more than sufficient.??Also note that screws from the top into the cleat serve no purpose in Indiana (no earthquake there to lift the timber off the cleat, correct?)

<Screen Shot 2021-01-06 at 1.34.46 PM.png>

??

On Jan 6, 2021, at 2:00 PM, Jason Holtz <jholtzy@...> wrote:

I've done similar shelf installation down and dirty with lag screws into the studs. Once driven, the heads were cut off, and holes bore in the back of the shelves with an auger bit. Squirt some PL adhesive in the holes and slide it on.

Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture

3307 Snelling Ave. South

Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765

--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406

On Jan 6, 2021, at 2:54 PM, imranindiana via <imranindiana@...> wrote:

David,

That makes perfect sense. There is brick, on the wall, where this is going. I know the guy whose house it is going in but I am primarily helping my neighbor who decided to take up this challenge.?Brick does add some mounting challenges that i will need to figure out.

After all the suggestions, I have to say that I would not have considered french cleat (thanks Joe). I have a hutch hanging with french cleat in my shop and I am certain it weighs twice, if not more, than the mantle.

The simplicity of a mounting block is still attractive. I do not see why it would sag. The mounting block should not move once secured to the wall. The pocket done (in the rear of the mantle) on shaper should be precise and with .005” capability on the planer i can make the mounting block fit like a glove. I think a hardwood mounting block will hold screws better and reduce chances of sagging.

Imran

On Jan 6, 2021, at 5:09 PM, david@... via <david@...> wrote:

?Yea, if you did that you’d have to sheetrock down to the mantle after. ?In the case I was working on, we had gone back to the studs throughout the house, installed the brackets (for the mantle and a large bench in the DR under a bay window), did the rough electric and plumbing, then insulated with foam, installed the sheetrock and got that finished up, then installed the mantle against the sheetrock.

David Best

On Jan 6, 2021, at 12:19 PM, imranindiana via <imranindiana@...> wrote:

David,

Thanks for the details. I guess if I were to do this, i will probably epoxy the brackets in the mantle and then bolt the verticals to the studs while keeping mantle level. This on account of my ability to free hand drill as required to do this right.

Imran

On Jan 6, 2021, at 1:22 PM, david@... via <david@...> wrote:

?Imran,

Here’s the drawing. ?Don’t underestimate the racking force here. ?The brackets ended up costing $150 and took 30 minutes to fabricate.

<screenshot_4605.jpeg>

David Best

On Jan 5, 2021, at 10:15 PM, imranindiana via <imranindiana@...> wrote:

After reading, I realized it would be better to screw the mantle to the blocking from top vs bottom.

Imran

On Jan 6, 2021, at 1:00 AM, imranindiana via <imranindiana@...> wrote:

?So a friend wants a live edge mantle from an Ash log. He already has the log cut on the band mill. It is 11” deep (sticking out from wall) and 7.5” tall (vertical). The mantle will be 5’ long.

I can run the 11” wide top on the jointer and then make the back 90 deg to it. Finally run it thru planer to get the bottom parallel to the top.

I need to return each end of the mantle so will need to cut 45s. I plan to do each 45 deg cut in two passes (due to 7”+ thickness) with material on one side of the xcut fence and then flipped and placed on the other side of the xcut fence. I have not done this so far.

Finally i can plough a recess on the back side on all 3 pieces for mounting purpose and process a piece of wood that fits perfectly in the recess. With this piece mounted on the wall the mantle can be pushed on it and screwed from bottom. I can easily plough about 3” deep. Is that deep enough for a 11” deep mantle?

I know there are many mounting options out there but would like to find out if what i described would work?

Imran