Art world is fickle, I collect fine art and one of my pieces “leg of a dog” a Basquiat that was probably worth about 3-5k 20 yrs ago. I got it in a trade and really like it, I never buy art as an investment, anyways if you look at this search of that litho I have (and there are only 20, it is part of a series so someone is missing the one I have) the prices are all over the place depending on the year it was sold, some of the estimates are quite lofty...
I also wonder if the Maloof pieces are being driven down in value because Maloof woodworkers is keeping his legacy going,? A lot of folks out there would argue that the Maloof woodworker pieces are just as good so why pay for the signature (not saying I agree with that). I saw a live edge “cutting board” with the stamp Sam Maloof Woodworkers on it that sold for like $800 plus the premium, clearly the market is confused as to who Sam Maloof is and who Sam Maloof Woodworkers are.
Art is usually the most valuable at the height of an artist’s career when they are alive and at different points in time when they are dead...
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On Dec 20, 2020, at 12:28 AM, joelgelman via groups.io <joelgelman@...> wrote:
?
How can that be? ?I remember when Randy told me about an original Maloof Rocker that went for I think 17k not long ago, and I thought perhaps it was signed in a way to indicate a particular individual and maybe that decreased the value.
However, I then saw another one for a fairly similar price. ?Then I saw the 8 chairs for so little. ?I own a Maloof Rocker. ?I purchased it I think when it was 20k, ?It was a splurge and I saved up as I waited years in line, but figured it would not go down in value. ?I thought around 6 years ago, they were selling for quite a bit more than now. ?Until Randy burst the bubble, I thought my Maloof rocker was worth 60K or more. ?For what I see now, my Rocker when down in value as if I invested that 20K at that time, that 20k would be worth a lot more now.
I don't get it, especially the sale price of those chairs in the link. ?I thought of Sam as the woodworking equivalent of the painting masters as David Sabo pointed out. ?Surely I would think a Sam signed Rocker would be worth more than a new one by Mike or Randy because of the signature. ?If the Sam signed ones can be had now for these low of prices, that makes me wonder how people like Randy can get fair compensation for their outstanding pieces of furniture.
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Re: Felder KF700 Rip Fence Lever
To close the loop on this thread, I used my machine yesterday, but first sprayed dry lube where the rip fence handle contacts the locking mechanism. That completely did the trick, it is so much better now. Thanks to John for the tip.?
Patrick
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 7:05 PM Brian Lamb < blamb11@...> wrote: That appears to be an older Aluminum fence housing.
Thought I had adjusted mine some how, i was having the same behavior? ? My KF700 is 2002. Here is the rip fence locking detail
<image0.jpeg>
no adjustment. the plate is just pushed in and it clamps on the round bar. someone may have just guided me to not push it all the way. never had an issue with staying put.
Imran
On Dec 16, 2020, at 2:23 PM, Philip Davidson < pgdiv4@...> wrote:
?I have a similar rip fence and there is no way to push it all the way down.? It locks with just pushing down to you fell a firm touch.? Easy to pull up and have never had it move. ? Philip Davidson? ? I seem to recall that my rip fence was tighter than my liking early on. this is 19 yrs ago so do not recall what i did. never had an issues since. i have removed the rip fence and the bar since it is only a shaper now but the fence housing is laying on the table. when i am in shop later, i will take a look. i seem to recall that the cam portion of the lever forces a plate into the round bar.
Imran On Dec 16, 2020, at 1:37 PM, Patrick Kane < pwk5017@...> wrote: ? Interesting, i really do need to take the fence off and have a look at it. It wasnt my only/primary saw until recently, and i admit my laziness never allowed for me to delve into it deeply. Now it is my only table saw and im using the rip fence much much more.?
My rip fence system is different from yours. Mine is mounted to a round bar. Looks like the 2020 KF700 has the same/similar fence.
Patrick Patrick,
I had the same issue with my CF 741 2008 model. I couldn't open the rip fence lever and almost broke the handle using my both hands. On next time , I had the same issue, I noticed that the lever is not inserted deep inside the hole and the eccentric end of the lever shaft jummed? at the edge of the P channel. It could be you had the same issue.
Alex Zoric
-------- Original message -------- Date: 16/12/2020 17:04 (GMT+01:00) Subject: [FOG] Felder KF700 Rip Fence Lever
This has bugged me forever, but i never asked anyone about it. Last night i used my 2005 KF700 for a bit, and the rip fence lever is absurdly stubborn to lift up on. One, i find the stubby plastic handle to be uncomfortable and too short to apply/unapply pressure. Two, once its locked, it is always a two-handed approach to undo the fence--left hand on top of the fence head, right hand yanking up on the handle--which almost always results in me smacking my right hand off the fence body when the lever finally lets loose. Ive owned 2 unifences, 2-3 biesemeyer fences, one VSCT fence, and a Martin T17 fence. Of them all, the VSCT and Martin have the best/most satisfying locking/unlocking action. The others were fine, and absolutely none were like this felder fence. Is this specific to me and something i can adjust, or is this just how the fence operates? Has anyone replaced the handle of their rip fence to something longer for greater leverage? The operation of the fence is perfectly fine, and it stays put once its locked, but the ergonomics couldnt?suck more.?
Patrick
-- Philip
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Re: BF6-31 FORSALE in Melbourne, Australia
Nice machine. Just an observation and curiosity. Can the slider be pulled back all the way (like one would for a full stroke cut) with the outrigger positioned as shown in 2nd pic?
I cannot on my K975 with 10’ slider. Maybe, it is possible with shorter sliders. Or could be a change that has occurred over the yrs.
I frequently place the outrigger 3’-4’ down from the far end of the slider. Then i have to push the outrigger back so that the slider could be pulled all the way to front to gain access to the blade enclosure to change blade or to remove a cutoff.
Imran
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On Dec 19, 2020, at 8:52 PM, acousticnull@... wrote: ?I have a lightly used (still on original blades!) 1999 BF6-31 combination machine I am selling only due to needing the space.? Has heaps of accessories, many unused, and includes a dust extractor. 3phase 400v.? First time offered - fair market price with all the accessories should be around A$15K but I will offer it @ A$12,000 for any group member here for two days before listing to the general public. John
<IMG_0136.JPG> <IMG_0138.JPG> <IMG_0149.JPG> <IMG_0145.JPG>
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Re: BF6-31 FORSALE in Melbourne, Australia
Well I’m in property renovation and although mine isn’t used on a daily basis when it’s needed it saves me a fortune especially when I’m repairing damaged mouldings! I used to get specially made blades for the spindle moulder but now I’m pretty good at using combination cuts with different blades to form the finished article! The Felder has become my business partner and work mate and I’m never happier than when I’m in the shop solving problems!
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On 20 Dec 2020, at 12:22, Acoustic Null <acousticnull@...> wrote:
? Agreed Martin.? The new ones certainly don't look as solid or as well made.? But I am out of wood working now and playing with cars and bikes.?
In fact I bought it 10 years ago from a friend (the original owner) even though I only tinker a little with woodwork.? I built a few loudspeaker boxes and a 12 seater table then got bored.... :-)
JC
On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 9:21 PM Martin Guiver via <martin.guiver= [email protected]> wrote: Looks great John! I’ve got a 96 BF6-31 and I would love it to be in the condition yours is in! You should have no problems selling it and it’s ready to go to work for decades. What a lot of people don’t know is that this is probably the best ever combination machine ever made and has an accuracy beyond your wildest dreams! You can’t buy them from Felder anymore but I remember in about 2000 I was tempted to upgrade to the latest machine and the engineer advised against it as the 631 was probably the best you would ever get... glad listened! I wouldn’t part with mine for any price! Martin? ?I have a lightly used (still on original blades!) 1999 BF6-31 combination machine I am selling only due to needing the space.? Has heaps of accessories, many unused, and includes a dust extractor. 3phase 400v.? First time offered - fair market price with all the accessories should be around A$15K but I will offer it @ A$12,000 for any group member here for two days before listing to the general public. John
<IMG_0136.JPG> <IMG_0138.JPG> <IMG_0149.JPG> <IMG_0145.JPG>
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Re: BF6-31 FORSALE in Melbourne, Australia
Agreed Martin.? The new ones certainly don't look as solid or as well made.? But I am out of wood working now and playing with cars and bikes.?
In fact I bought it 10 years ago from a friend (the original owner) even though I only tinker a little with woodwork.? I built a few loudspeaker boxes and a 12 seater table then got bored.... :-)
JC
On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 9:21 PM Martin Guiver via <martin.guiver= [email protected]> wrote: Looks great John! I’ve got a 96 BF6-31 and I would love it to be in the condition yours is in! You should have no problems selling it and it’s ready to go to work for decades. What a lot of people don’t know is that this is probably the best ever combination machine ever made and has an accuracy beyond your wildest dreams! You can’t buy them from Felder anymore but I remember in about 2000 I was tempted to upgrade to the latest machine and the engineer advised against it as the 631 was probably the best you would ever get... glad listened! I wouldn’t part with mine for any price! Martin? ?I have a lightly used (still on original blades!) 1999 BF6-31 combination machine I am selling only due to needing the space.? Has heaps of accessories, many unused, and includes a dust extractor. 3phase 400v.? First time offered - fair market price with all the accessories should be around A$15K but I will offer it @ A$12,000 for any group member here for two days before listing to the general public. John
<IMG_0136.JPG> <IMG_0138.JPG> <IMG_0149.JPG> <IMG_0145.JPG>
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Re: BF6-31 FORSALE in Melbourne, Australia
Looks great John! I’ve got a 96 BF6-31 and I would love it to be in the condition yours is in! You should have no problems selling it and it’s ready to go to work for decades. What a lot of people don’t know is that this is probably the best ever combination machine ever made and has an accuracy beyond your wildest dreams! You can’t buy them from Felder anymore but I remember in about 2000 I was tempted to upgrade to the latest machine and the engineer advised against it as the 631 was probably the best you would ever get... glad listened! I wouldn’t part with mine for any price!
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On 20 Dec 2020, at 01:52, acousticnull@... wrote:
?I have a lightly used (still on original blades!) 1999 BF6-31 combination machine I am selling only due to needing the space.? Has heaps of accessories, many unused, and includes a dust extractor. 3phase 400v.? First time offered - fair market price with all the accessories should be around A$15K but I will offer it @ A$12,000 for any group member here for two days before listing to the general public. John
<IMG_0136.JPG> <IMG_0138.JPG> <IMG_0149.JPG> <IMG_0145.JPG>
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Unless art becomes in vogue to an affluent group, the memory of the maker slowly goes away, sometimes not so slow and sometimes it returns.? Antiques that were popular and pricey 20 years ago often drop in value today as those whose memories are triggered get
older and the next generation of buyers has newer memories.? Roy Rogers toys and 1950s cars get replaced by 1970s cars? ( I don't know anyone can like the cars of the 80s )? and toys i haven't even heard of.? Maybe when styles go old again.? Dave
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How can that be? ?I remember when Randy told me about an original Maloof Rocker that went for I think 17k not long ago, and I thought perhaps it was signed in a way to indicate a particular individual and maybe that decreased the value.
However, I then saw another one for a fairly similar price. ?Then I saw the 8 chairs for so little. ?I own a Maloof Rocker. ?I purchased it I think when it was 20k, ?It was a splurge and I saved up as I waited years in line, but figured it would not go down
in value. ?I thought around 6 years ago, they were selling for quite a bit more than now. ?Until Randy burst the bubble, I thought my Maloof rocker was worth 60K or more. ?For what I see now, my Rocker when down in value as if I invested that 20K at that time,
that 20k would be worth a lot more now.
I don't get it, especially the sale price of those chairs in the link. ?I thought of Sam as the woodworking equivalent of the painting masters as David Sabo pointed out. ?Surely I would think a Sam signed Rocker would be worth more than a new one by Mike or
Randy because of the signature. ?If the Sam signed ones can be had now for these low of prices, that makes me wonder how people like Randy can get fair compensation for their outstanding pieces of furniture.
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How can that be? ?I remember when Randy told me about an original Maloof Rocker that went for I think 17k not long ago, and I thought perhaps it was signed in a way to indicate a particular individual and maybe that decreased the value.
However, I then saw another one for a fairly similar price. ?Then I saw the 8 chairs for so little. ?I own a Maloof Rocker. ?I purchased it I think when it was 20k, ?It was a splurge and I saved up as I waited years in line, but figured it would not go down in value. ?I thought around 6 years ago, they were selling for quite a bit more than now. ?Until Randy burst the bubble, I thought my Maloof rocker was worth 60K or more. ?For what I see now, my Rocker when down in value as if I invested that 20K at that time, that 20k would be worth a lot more now.
I don't get it, especially the sale price of those chairs in the link. ?I thought of Sam as the woodworking equivalent of the painting masters as David Sabo pointed out. ?Surely I would think a Sam signed Rocker would be worth more than a new one by Mike or Randy because of the signature. ?If the Sam signed ones can be had now for these low of prices, that makes me wonder how people like Randy can get fair compensation for their outstanding pieces of furniture.
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Re: Langzauner Sander Delivery - Warning on Machinery Max Palletization
Shipper's Fault or no? don't bother yourself with such issues?
and ? make the claim with the insurance
On 12/17/20 1:37 PM, David Kumm wrote:
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That is horrible.? I didn't like Machinery Max before but this
is beyond incompetence.? It is sad when the rare machine you
search a long time for is in the hands of these people.? Dave
Warning to
all who buy online auction items from Machinery Max.? I
paid to have this palletized.? Spoke with the guy at the
ship out site who is an employee of Machinery Max to
ensure he would put blocking under the machine feet so
the machine would not break through the pallet.? He
assured me he always does this and it would not be an
issue. I pushed again telling him the last machine I had
palletized indeed fell through the pallet.? He said he
was the only Machinery Max person there and the only one
palletizing and loading and to not worry.
?
This is
what was delivered.?
-
No blocking under the
legs of the machine.?
-
Just ?” of MDF added to
the top of the pallet for a 640KG machine.? Loose
parts just laying on top of the machine, are they all
even there??
-
Machine broke through
which was certain to happen,? Trucking company had to
put a second pallet under.
?
How in any
world is this palletization acceptable?? I was assured
it would be correctly palletized.? The machine is now
much more beat up that in the auction pics.? Not sure I
have any recourse.? I did buy $10,000 of coverage for
shipping but it was not the shipper’s fault.
?
?
Joe Jensen
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VP Internet of
Things
Group?|
GM Retail Banking
Hospitality and Education
480-554-8207–翱蹿蹿颈肠别
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480-231-0669–颁别濒濒 ?
?
?
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BF6-31 FORSALE in Melbourne, Australia
I have a lightly used (still on original blades!) 1999 BF6-31 combination machine I am selling only due to needing the space.? Has heaps of accessories, many unused, and includes a dust extractor.
3phase 400v.? First time offered - fair market price with all the accessories should be around A$15K but I will offer it @ A$12,000 for any group member here for two days before listing to the general public.
John
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?got it figured out the new fly wheel is installed .
Mike
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I have a pic of the pulley in question. ?This view is outfeed side of the planer with the side panel off.
Thanks
Mike
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Hello All,?
I have the old wheel off and the new on , however, there appears to be a spring loaded wheel tensioning the drive chain, making just to short to replace the tooth gear with chain back on the shaft. ?I am not sure how to take tension off the pulley to allow the chain to move far enough over to slip in back on the shaft . ?
Any help you guys could offer with pics if possible would be great.
Thanks
Mike
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Electrical hack here? If you have 9 wires out of motor than you should be able to get 240 , if 3 than high voltage.? Some times you can find the 6 other leads just dead end warped on stator. I have had euro machines with high and low voltage only motors 240/380 and 380 only on same machine. Mac? Designing and building for 50 years
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On Dec 18, 2020, at 1:05 AM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? The hummmm reminds me of something else entirely.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
On Dec 17, 2020, at 10:10 PM, David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
The hum reminds me to turn it off and to be really careful.? High voltage is scary.? I had a 600v machine and spent a lot of money to convert it as all the controls were 600 as well and I'm absent minded and clumsy.? Dave
Buying a transformer is the easy option but I hate hate hate 60hz hum and I’ve never been around a transformer this size that didn’t hum
?
?
?
Joe, if that machine can be run on low voltage, you may need to boost your voltage.? 277v less 10% brings you down to the 250v minimum.? the motors will likely run warmer and may be fine but is it easy and cheap to
put two? buck boost 32v transformers, wired open delta on the machine to get within spec.? I did this with my Robinson.? Two 1 kva transformers handles a 7.5 hp motor.? I bet the motor is wired 480 so looking at the starter will tell you how complicated it
is to swap that for the lower voltage.? If you step up to 480, the preferred transformer would be a three phase 240 delta to 480 wye step up isolation unit.? Some transformers can be run in reverse but you need to understand the grounding issues when doing
so.? Generally if the plate on the transformer says " low and High " you shouldn't reverse.? If it says " primary and secondary" it may be OK but should be checked by the manufacturer.? An auto transformer will be delta to delta in your case and be a smaller
unit and cheaper but may not deliver quite as clean power as an isolation transformer.? Clean is my layman's term and not technically correct.? Lots of machines run fine with an autotransformer but they are more often used when the voltage spread is less.?
Buck boost transformers are autotransformers.
Let us know what you find.? Dave
Here is the power service I have, listed on websites as “Uncommon”
?
?
?
?
?
Joe,
?
I am pretty sure both motor labels say they are 250-277V when delta connected and 440-480V when Y connected – (60 Hz).
?
Do you see a pictorial that shows how to connect motor leads for delta power?
?
I am not knowledgeable enough to know if 230V that you have is okay for the 250V min rating on the motor plate.
?
Imran
?
?
The Langzauner sander machine tag says 3 phase 460V.? The specs in the manual say 400V 3 phase. ?The power junction box on the machine is labeled 480V, looks like this
is from the last shop.? Ideally I can rewire for 240V three phase.? My power supply is utility Delta 230V 3 Phase.
?
Machine tag, and two motor tags pics attached.? I’m and electrical engineer who has been a business person for 25 years so I’m not fluent in this stuff today.? Looks like
at least these two motors can run in the 250V range.? Does the tag specify delta power?? I see some step up transformers are 240V Delta 2 phase in and 480V WYE out.?
?
I don’t yet have it off the pallet to check the other bits.?
?
?
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If I had been told my K700 with a 2500mm slider required a support leg, I too would have opted for the longer chassis.?
Oh well, I will make do. It is very close to where it should be. After scouring thru past posts, I may try to do more fine tuning. I did all adjustments with out moving the slider. My thinking was with only 4 bolts it would be fine. But now it appears I should have moved the slider enough to place the bearing cage over the adjustment points. Thanks for the advice.
Tony
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On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 07:20 PM, david@... wrote:
Personally, I would never buy a saw that required that kind of support leg
100% agree, if I had to redo it, I would go with the extended base and not the short base. On the explanation, I thought I explained what you have in your video but for the other side. Or what you have in your picture at the bottom. Your video applied to the bottom image in your picture is what I tried to explain. Bill
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I know David said, it is support only, but the question is how do you setup it up for support?only? You cannot do so by just looking at it as we are talking 0.001 changes. In your case and in mine, the base support has too much flex and I guess the support legs are sold with it for this reason in addition to avoid flip over if too much weight at full extension.
I never said the leg was for “support only.” ?What I said was that it was primarily used (and necessary) to keep the machine from falling face forward when the sliding table was fully extended with a heavy load on it. ?Without that leg, the machine would be terribly unsafe.
Yes, of course that leg can have an influence on the sliding table height alignment as well. ? Whether that adjustment is absolutely required to get decent performance is a matter of conjecture. ?Personally, I would never buy a saw that required that kind of support leg - it really complicates the setup and adjustment, and is a trip hazard. ?Just my opinion, but I have consistently advised users against buying such a configuration - especially for the 12-foot slider on the larger machines. ?Imagine trying to dial in a 12-foot slider with 8 adjustment studs AND two legs.
The effect you are describing, where the adjustments points are counterintuitive when the sliding table is at it’s extreme travel limits is fully described in this video, and applies equally to the leg supporting an extended lower carriage: ??? ?Also documented here: ??
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
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This is what I tried to explain,
It looks like the weight of the sliding table only make the infeed side going up to 0.018 when the sliding table is fully extended on the outfeed side. You can use the outfeed leg support to push back the under support a little at the outfeed location (you have a short base, so there is some flex). Put a dial on this location where you want to push the support leg up and another where you have your 0.018. As long as you push the leg up and the dial indicator on the outfeed side under the leg does not move and the other dial is showing a reduction from 0.018, you should be all good. As soon as you see the dial above the leg or close to it going up, then you are starting to distort your stuff. This is my own understanding on how it works. If I remember correctly the support said that for my K500, 0.008 or 0.015 overall difference at full stroke is what is warranted. Ask the support to know what is warranted with your saw, and as long as you are in those figures, you are good to go or you can try to get it better.
I know David said, it is support only, but the question is how do you setup it up for support?only? You cannot do so by just looking at it as we are talking 0.001 changes. In your case and in mine, the base support has too much flex and I guess the support legs are sold with it for this reason in addition to avoid flip over if too much weight at full extension.
Bill
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Re: #forsale Eccentric Clamp Mounting Post
#forsale
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<img5206902c4d602bc1b201ec95acede1a7232289a40.jpg>Felder Eccentric Clamp Post: I bought this clamp last year, but I only needed the clamp head, so the post is new/unused. Its a 30mm post and should fit on most Felder/Hammer shapers/mortisers/etc: wherever a hold down clamp is used. $75 plus shipping {repeat: just the post, does not include clamp head]
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Tony,
i have a cheap HF electric hoist that i use to lift outrigger among other things.
Make sure you document your calibration #s. if things change with outrigger that will guide you. outrigger pivot axle can be adjusted if needed.
Imran PS: here is not a great pic to take slider measurements at 3 locations at once. I took measurements at 6 points along the travel of 10’ slider.
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On Dec 18, 2020, at 2:52 PM, Tony Rodoracio <trodoracio@...> wrote: ?Bill,?
As Imran said, Grooves and dados will be different depths if cut where the table is higher.?
Imran,
Adjustments were made without the outrigger. I have not compared measurements with the outrigger on yet. I just purchased the outrigger cart with the 10% off and was waiting for it to show up before reinstalling it. That thing is a pain?
(literally) taking on and off by hand. Not young and strong anymore. The support leg did help a little, but as you said, I didn't want to distort the carriage with it. It is just snugged to the floor. The manual is pretty worthless in regards to the support leg and other things.? I made all adjustments with the table near the locked position since there are only 4 bolts to adjust.
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imran
David P. Best