Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
I think a disconnect here is an assumption that the FB series are copies of Italian machines.? Dave
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of mark thomas <murkyd@...>
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 12:47 AM
To: Felder Owner Group <[email protected]>; habacomike@... <habacomike@...>
Cc: anil00@... <anil00@...>
Subject: Re: [FOG] FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
?
What's the definition of “flat” that people are using here?? My FB610 has a very obvious center ~.015" higher than edges.? What's the curvature of a typical crowned wheel??
On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 8:20 PM habacomike via Groups.Io <habacomike= [email protected]> wrote:
European saws, of which the Felder saws are examples, have flat wheels and, as a result, are positioned with the teeth off of the front of the wheels.
On Feb 18, 2020, at 5:00 PM, Anil < anil00@...> wrote:
Thanks John, I actually spent a few hours reading many posts about the bandsaws (searched for variations of? "FB" and "610"), but do not remember specific discussion around the proper position on the wheel.? It's entirely possible I missed such a discussion;
if so, I'm sorry about adding to the group churn in that case.? Hopefully this thread will still be of use for a future searcher :-)
Anil
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Overhead saw guard? It really annoys when overhead saw guard moves so many years back I replaced the ?funky SCMI with my own design. I used the Felder saw hood and inside of the telescopic arm. This slides in and out on humw slide pads with one lever so it can move laterally as my saw moves laterally 6” . It also slides quickly out of the way for access and out of way for shaper fence. I can also quickly pull the whole arm out. ?The saw guard hood has 4 quick release bolts to take off and put back on. The rest of the affair is based of a 6” tube steel post of set for cross cuts. The whole thing bolts together in a few sub assemblies. Pretty much all made from scrap bin. View from behind saw.
Mac,,, ? Designing and building for 47 years
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On Feb 19, 2020, at 7:50 PM, Alex Bowlds <aabj@...> wrote:
? I will try to remember to post some photos of the older design tomorrow. ?I had taken photos showing the droop and sent them to Felder some time ago. ?I just no longer have them on my iPad.A.On Feb 19, 2020, at 11:10 AM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
?Right, will double check tonight but mine definitely does not for at least 5-8” of swing. I can set the bottom of the clear polycarbonate to a hair above the top of the blade and can swing it past the blade without the guard touching the blade for example
Regards, Mark
On Feb 19, 2020, at 1:53 PM, Sang Luu <sangluu@...> wrote:
?Alex noted that the drooping occurs when the arm is swung (I assume 90 degrees) out of the way.
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Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
What's the definition of “flat” that people are using here?? My FB610 has a very obvious center ~.015" higher than edges.? What's the curvature of a typical crowned wheel??
On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 8:20 PM habacomike via Groups.Io <habacomike= [email protected]> wrote: European saws, of which the Felder saws are examples, have flat wheels and, as a result, are positioned with the teeth off of the front of the wheels. On Feb 18, 2020, at 5:00 PM, Anil < anil00@...> wrote:
Thanks John, I actually spent a few hours reading many posts about the bandsaws (searched for variations of? "FB" and "610"), but do not remember specific discussion around the proper position on the wheel.? It's entirely possible I missed such a discussion; if so, I'm sorry about adding to the group churn in that case.? Hopefully this thread will still be of use for a future searcher :-)
Anil
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Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
European saws, of which the Felder saws are examples, have flat wheels and, as a result, are positioned with the teeth off of the front of the wheels.
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On Feb 18, 2020, at 5:00 PM, Anil < anil00@...> wrote:
Thanks John, I actually spent a few hours reading many posts about the bandsaws (searched for variations of? "FB" and "610"), but do not remember specific discussion around the proper position on the wheel.? It's entirely possible I missed such a discussion; if so, I'm sorry about adding to the group churn in that case.? Hopefully this thread will still be of use for a future searcher :-)
Anil
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I will try to remember to post some photos of the older design tomorrow. I had taken photos showing the droop and sent them to Felder some time ago. I just no longer have them on my iPad.
A.
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On Feb 19, 2020, at 11:10 AM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
?Right, will double check tonight but mine definitely does not for at least 5-8” of swing. I can set the bottom of the clear polycarbonate to a hair above the top of the blade and can swing it past the blade without the guard touching the blade for example
Regards, Mark
On Feb 19, 2020, at 1:53 PM, Sang Luu <sangluu@...> wrote:
?Alex noted that the drooping occurs when the arm is swung (I assume 90 degrees) out of the way.
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Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
David, Mark: thanks for the confirmation on the tire wear.? It will allow me to try out both and see what works best (I was previously worried about messing up the tire just by trying out centering the blade).
Anil
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Re: Shims for Felder dado set
Thanks David.? I had mixed luck reaching out to Felder on this topic.? I actually ended up buying at least two different sets based on this recommendation, neither of which were a right fit for my saw (one of them was for Hammer line and the other did not have any holes).? Hence checking with the group here to get real world recommendations.
Anil
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Re: segmented pressure beam for AD 951?
my experience with my AD951 (without segmented pressure beam) is that it will be able to take material that is 1mm difference in them.?
I have a semi production shop, it would be nice to have segmented pressure bar, but is it necessary? will the segmented bar make my shop more efficient hence generate more income? maybe, but most of the time we plan our work so we over come this - more gizmo more thing to break.?
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Re: segmented pressure beam for AD 951?
I will chime in ..?
I have a Martin T-54 Planer which is a 2016.? It has a segmented infeed roller and 2 x Rubber Outfeed rollers.? ?In past planers,? I would have issues with sticking .. where the lumber would stop moving while the planer was running ..? ?That has never happened with?this new planer.? ?It also has no table rollers.??
The segmented infeed roller is only really useful to me when planing say 3 or 4 boards at a time ..? I don't really need a segmented infeed roller,? it seems like its geared for production.? ?What I do have is variable speed and I love it ..?
Rick?
On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 11:30 AM David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
Excellent explanation and great point about using the segmented infeed to edge plane.? The caveat there relates to the width of the segments.? My old planers used 2" segments which IMO opinion negated that benefit.? Segments < 1.5" are better assuming .75"
stock.? The pressure bar design also is a factor in why I'm not a bed roller guy.? Bed rollers create pivot points as the stock enters and exits the head.? The pressure of the infeed rollers and associated springs should force the stock back down towards the
bed to eliminate somewhat the leading edge snipe issue ( IMO opinion the difficult one to fix ).? The pressure bar on the outfeed serves the same purpose.? Because it is located behind the head but before the bed roller, its job is too hold the stock down,
particularly when the trailing edge exits the first bed roller and wants to lift up with the rotation of the knives.? The old cast iron planers used a cast iron bar that could weigh 75+ lbs.? It was either spring loaded or set on a pivot so it could lift up
but was heavy enough not to allow most stock to lift on the trailing end.? The modern spring steel lighter? bars can be less effective so eliminating the trailing snipe which in my world means the bed rollers need to be kept almost at table level.? The trailing
snipe issue can be worse with the second outfeed roller depending on if it is before or after the second bed roller.? I keep lighter pressure on the second so the main force is before the second bed roller.
I'm not criticizing newer planers, just adding a reason why I usually run with rollers out of the way for finish planing.?? My chipbreaker term comes from the old manuals I learned from so that can be misleading to others.? What is interesting is how similar
planers from 100 years ago are to those made today except for the change in materials to control costs and the advent of the spiral head that reduces the need for the chipbreaker near the cutting arc of the head.? Dave
Let’s see if I can add some clarity here. ? I have a Dual 51 which is basically an AD951 with a different fence.? I have the “sectional pressure bar” and rubber infeed & outfeed rollers. ? Here’s a photo from the top
- planer infeed end is at the top:
All those grey lever gizmos are spring loaded and they individually push down on the material coming into the planer, and each is individually adjustable in terms of spring tension. ? They all pivot on a common shaft. ? The advantage of this setup,
compared to the non-segmented system is that material of different thicknesses can be fed simultaneously (within a range of about 8mm variation).? I find this particularly useful when bringing roughly ripped stiles and rails all to a common width, feeding
them on edge next to each other in rapid succession. ? Without this segmented pressure system, a single sheet of spring steel is pressing down on the material being fed and the tallest portion or piece of that material will force the entire plate upward, leaving
some areas or pieces without downward pressure. ??
In the following photo you can see in Blue where the the individual segments add downward pressure to the incoming material just ahead of the cutterblock. They also act as a chip breaker.
The following photo is the underside of the planer infeed end. ? The segmented pressure elements are outlined in Blue again here, but the anti-kickback pawls are outlined in Red. ? A planer with the standard (non-segmented) pressure bar has the
same series of dangling anti-kickback elements.
Here is the parts diagram. ? The Green #17 is the standard single-plate pressure bar. ? The Red #21’s are the anti-kickback pawls.? The blue #31 and associated components is the optional “sectional pressure bar”.
Here is the parts description.? According to Google Translate on my iPhone (what a marvel of technology), #17 is “Smooth preassembled pressure beam”. ? #21 is “Antikickback device”, and #31 is “Welded segment block”.
David Best
Isn't what you are showing the anti kickback pawls?
On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 7:56 AM imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote:
?The only similar option I am aware of is what Felder calls “sectional pressure bar”, shown below:
I thought this is what we are discussing. OP should clarify if he meant something different.
Can someone post what the alternative looks like? I assume it is just a chip breaker.
Imran
?Imran, yes to the noise but I am also under the impression from Felder that the sheet steel pressure shoe (Felder calls it that) had the wrong bend angle on that part causing the harmonics ( like to say squealing pig noise). Will find
out next week with my replacement machine which will be newer build by a year. The noise can be minimized by waxing which I never did and I found another hack which was to put a piece of duct tape on it which helped a lot.
I personally would go for the segmented pressure bar and maybe the rubber rollers hear they are great for delicate work there was a recent (maybe 2 months?) about this,
Actually edit, not so sure about the advantage of the segmented pressure bar, I keep mixing it up in my head with the segmented infeed roller that my scm had which was great for small diff in size...
Regards, Mark
On Feb 19, 2020, at 12:25 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
?
Are the issues people reported here with noise due to not having the segmented pressure bar? Another advantage of segmented pressure bar (per Felder) is planing of thinner stock.
Another option discussed here is the infeed roller with mixed feedback. The rubber coated one requires maintenance but the metal one may leave marks when taking light passes.
My Dual51 has segmented pressure bar, metal infeed roller and tersa head. I love tersa head, have no complains with metal infeed roller. If there are any marks they do not require any additional high grit sanding than I normally do.
It is mentioned here that re-coating rubber infeed roller is, IIRC, $200-$300.
Imran
On Feb 19, 2020, at 9:43 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Most planers over 20" have the segmented chipbreaker ( pressure beam ).? When I buy used, those parts and springs are the first to have problems but if buying new, not an issue.?
I'm to the age where chasing multiple pieces back and forth doesn't appeal to me and I don't do enough volume that I care about the flexibility of that option.? If it comes to money, I'd take the second outfeed roller or a Tersa or spiral head.? I'm a Tersa
first, spiral second guy but I'm in the minority.? I'd also put the extra cash into a bigger dust collector.? Dave
Lining up my wish list for the AD951 and KF 700, with the help of forum members I am clear on the overheadhead guard for the KF, and saving $750 (much needed) by not getting the integrated adjustable rollers in the bed of the AD951. Now I am looking
at the?segmented pressure beam for the 951. Anyone have experienced advice about it? Many thanks!
--
|
Re: segmented pressure beam for AD 951?
Excellent explanation and great point about using the segmented infeed to edge plane.? The caveat there relates to the width of the segments.? My old planers used 2" segments which IMO opinion negated that benefit.? Segments < 1.5" are better assuming .75"
stock.? The pressure bar design also is a factor in why I'm not a bed roller guy.? Bed rollers create pivot points as the stock enters and exits the head.? The pressure of the infeed rollers and associated springs should force the stock back down towards the
bed to eliminate somewhat the leading edge snipe issue ( IMO opinion the difficult one to fix ).? The pressure bar on the outfeed serves the same purpose.? Because it is located behind the head but before the bed roller, its job is too hold the stock down,
particularly when the trailing edge exits the first bed roller and wants to lift up with the rotation of the knives.? The old cast iron planers used a cast iron bar that could weigh 75+ lbs.? It was either spring loaded or set on a pivot so it could lift up
but was heavy enough not to allow most stock to lift on the trailing end.? The modern spring steel lighter? bars can be less effective so eliminating the trailing snipe which in my world means the bed rollers need to be kept almost at table level.? The trailing
snipe issue can be worse with the second outfeed roller depending on if it is before or after the second bed roller.? I keep lighter pressure on the second so the main force is before the second bed roller.
I'm not criticizing newer planers, just adding a reason why I usually run with rollers out of the way for finish planing.?? My chipbreaker term comes from the old manuals I learned from so that can be misleading to others.? What is interesting is how similar
planers from 100 years ago are to those made today except for the change in materials to control costs and the advent of the spiral head that reduces the need for the chipbreaker near the cutting arc of the head.? Dave
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Show quoted text
Let’s see if I can add some clarity here. ? I have a Dual 51 which is basically an AD951 with a different fence. ?I have the “sectional pressure bar” and rubber infeed & outfeed rollers. ? Here’s a photo from the top
- planer infeed end is at the top:
All those grey lever gizmos are spring loaded and they individually push down on the material coming into the planer, and each is individually adjustable in terms of spring tension. ? They all pivot on a common shaft. ? The advantage of this setup,
compared to the non-segmented system is that material of different thicknesses can be fed simultaneously (within a range of about 8mm variation). ?I find this particularly useful when bringing roughly ripped stiles and rails all to a common width, feeding
them on edge next to each other in rapid succession. ? Without this segmented pressure system, a single sheet of spring steel is pressing down on the material being fed and the tallest portion or piece of that material will force the entire plate upward, leaving
some areas or pieces without downward pressure. ??
In the following photo you can see in Blue where the the individual segments add downward pressure to the incoming material just ahead of the cutterblock. They also act as a chip breaker.
The following photo is the underside of the planer infeed end. ? The segmented pressure elements are outlined in Blue again here, but the anti-kickback pawls are outlined in Red. ? A planer with the standard (non-segmented) pressure bar has the
same series of dangling anti-kickback elements.
Here is the parts diagram. ? The Green #17 is the standard single-plate pressure bar. ? The Red #21’s are the anti-kickback pawls. ?The blue #31 and associated components is the optional “sectional pressure bar”.
Here is the parts description. ?According to Google Translate on my iPhone (what a marvel of technology), #17 is “Smooth preassembled pressure beam”. ? #21 is “Antikickback device”, and #31 is “Welded segment block”.
David Best
Isn't what you are showing the anti kickback pawls?
On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 7:56 AM imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote:
?The only similar option I am aware of is what Felder calls “sectional pressure bar”, shown below:
I thought this is what we are discussing. OP should clarify if he meant something different.
Can someone post what the alternative looks like? I assume it is just a chip breaker.
Imran
?Imran, yes to the noise but I am also under the impression from Felder that the sheet steel pressure shoe (Felder calls it that) had the wrong bend angle on that part causing the harmonics ( like to say squealing pig noise). Will find
out next week with my replacement machine which will be newer build by a year. The noise can be minimized by waxing which I never did and I found another hack which was to put a piece of duct tape on it which helped a lot.
I personally would go for the segmented pressure bar and maybe the rubber rollers hear they are great for delicate work there was a recent (maybe 2 months?) about this,
Actually edit, not so sure about the advantage of the segmented pressure bar, I keep mixing it up in my head with the segmented infeed roller that my scm had which was great for small diff in size...
Regards, Mark
On Feb 19, 2020, at 12:25 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
?
Are the issues people reported here with noise due to not having the segmented pressure bar? Another advantage of segmented pressure bar (per Felder) is planing of thinner stock.
Another option discussed here is the infeed roller with mixed feedback. The rubber coated one requires maintenance but the metal one may leave marks when taking light passes.
My Dual51 has segmented pressure bar, metal infeed roller and tersa head. I love tersa head, have no complains with metal infeed roller. If there are any marks they do not require any additional high grit sanding than I normally do.
It is mentioned here that re-coating rubber infeed roller is, IIRC, $200-$300.
Imran
On Feb 19, 2020, at 9:43 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Most planers over 20" have the segmented chipbreaker ( pressure beam ).? When I buy used, those parts and springs are the first to have problems but if buying new, not an issue.?
I'm to the age where chasing multiple pieces back and forth doesn't appeal to me and I don't do enough volume that I care about the flexibility of that option.? If it comes to money, I'd take the second outfeed roller or a Tersa or spiral head.? I'm a Tersa
first, spiral second guy but I'm in the minority.? I'd also put the extra cash into a bigger dust collector.? Dave
Lining up my wish list for the AD951 and KF 700, with the help of forum members I am clear on the overheadhead guard for the KF, and saving $750 (much needed) by not getting the integrated adjustable rollers in the bed of the AD951. Now I am looking
at the?segmented pressure beam for the 951. Anyone have experienced advice about it? Many thanks!
--
|
Right, will double check tonight but mine definitely does not for at least 5-8” of swing. I can set the bottom of the clear polycarbonate to a hair above the top of the blade and can swing it past the blade without the guard touching the blade for example
Regards, Mark
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On Feb 19, 2020, at 1:53 PM, Sang Luu <sangluu@...> wrote:
?Alex noted that the drooping occurs when the arm is swung (I assume 90 degrees) out of the way.
|
Alex noted that the drooping occurs when the arm is swung (I assume 90 degrees) out of the way.?
|
Guess I am confused, my guard droops pretty much Zero. What does the attachment to the saw look like on the ones that are drooping? Regards, Mark
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On Feb 19, 2020, at 1:47 PM, jmkserv@... wrote:
? The heavy worked well with the old sliding tube design and mounting right to the saw chassis. They went backwards with the new pivoting design mounted to air.?
-------- Original message -------- From: Sang Luu <sangluu@...> Date: 2020-02-19 1:34 p.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [FOG] Euro Guard on K700 #sawsetup
Drooping...hrmmm, Felder precision doesn't apply here :).? Jokes aside, I think the Felder guard is way overbuilt - using steel in almost all the parts means a significant amount of weight being cantilevered so it's no surprise there's a drop, especially with the weak point being the mount. If I recall correctly, there's also an attachment to the vertical segment to the rightside sheet metal table. Bob -- I'm going to noodle on how to execute this overhead guard using off the shelf parts, more to come soon!?
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The heavy worked well with the old sliding tube design and mounting right to the saw chassis. They went backwards with the new pivoting design mounted to air.?
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Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: Sang Luu <sangluu@...> Date: 2020-02-19 1:34 p.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [FOG] Euro Guard on K700 #sawsetup
Drooping...hrmmm, Felder precision doesn't apply here :).? Jokes aside, I think the Felder guard is way overbuilt - using steel in almost all the parts means a significant amount of weight being cantilevered so it's no surprise there's a drop, especially with the weak point being the mount. If I recall correctly, there's also an attachment to the vertical segment to the rightside sheet metal table. Bob -- I'm going to noodle on how to execute this overhead guard using off the shelf parts, more to come soon!?
|
Drooping...hrmmm, Felder precision doesn't apply here :).?
Jokes aside, I think the Felder guard is way overbuilt - using steel in almost all the parts means a significant amount of weight being cantilevered so it's no surprise there's a drop, especially with the weak point being the mount. If I recall correctly, there's also an attachment to the vertical segment to the rightside sheet metal table.
Bob -- I'm going to noodle on how to execute this overhead guard using off the shelf parts, more to come soon!?
|
Re: segmented pressure beam for AD 951?
Thanks for that. Interesting that the description in the parts diagram for #17 is “Smooth preassembled pressure beam”. But yet whenever I discuss that part with sales or service they refer to it as a “Pressure Shoe”. I know that sometimes occurs in our manuals for different countries where even though it is named one thing here is is discussed with a different name due to cultural and technical naming convention of that country. Regards, Mark
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On Feb 19, 2020, at 10:17 AM, "david@..." <david@...> wrote:
? Let’s see if I can add some clarity here. ? I have a Dual 51 which is basically an AD951 with a different fence. ?I have the “sectional pressure bar” and rubber infeed & outfeed rollers. ? Here’s a photo from the top - planer infeed end is at the top:
All those grey lever gizmos are spring loaded and they individually push down on the material coming into the planer, and each is individually adjustable in terms of spring tension. ? They all pivot on a common shaft. ? The advantage of this setup, compared to the non-segmented system is that material of different thicknesses can be fed simultaneously (within a range of about 8mm variation). ?I find this particularly useful when bringing roughly ripped stiles and rails all to a common width, feeding them on edge next to each other in rapid succession. ? Without this segmented pressure system, a single sheet of spring steel is pressing down on the material being fed and the tallest portion or piece of that material will force the entire plate upward, leaving some areas or pieces without downward pressure. ??
In the following photo you can see in Blue where the the individual segments add downward pressure to the incoming material just ahead of the cutterblock. They also act as a chip breaker.
The following photo is the underside of the planer infeed end. ? The segmented pressure elements are outlined in Blue again here, but the anti-kickback pawls are outlined in Red. ? A planer with the standard (non-segmented) pressure bar has the same series of dangling anti-kickback elements.
Here is the parts diagram. ? The Green #17 is the standard single-plate pressure bar. ? The Red #21’s are the anti-kickback pawls. ?The blue #31 and associated components is the optional “sectional pressure bar”.
Here is the parts description. ?According to Google Translate on my iPhone (what a marvel of technology), #17 is “Smooth preassembled pressure beam”. ? #21 is “Antikickback device”, and #31 is “Welded segment block”.
David Best
Isn't what you are showing the anti kickback pawls? On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 7:56 AM imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ?The only similar option I am aware of is what Felder calls “sectional pressure bar”, shown below:
I thought this is what we are discussing. OP should clarify if he meant something different.
Can someone post what the alternative looks like? I assume it is just a chip breaker.
Imran ?Imran, yes to the noise but I am also under the impression from Felder that the sheet steel pressure shoe (Felder calls it that) had the wrong bend angle on that part causing the harmonics ( like to say squealing pig noise). Will find out next week with my replacement machine which will be newer build by a year. The noise can be minimized by waxing which I never did and I found another hack which was to put a piece of duct tape on it which helped a lot.
I personally would go for the segmented pressure bar and maybe the rubber rollers hear they are great for delicate work there was a recent (maybe 2 months?) about this,
Actually edit, not so sure about the advantage of the segmented pressure bar, I keep mixing it up in my head with the segmented infeed roller that my scm had which was great for small diff in size...
Regards, Mark On Feb 19, 2020, at 12:25 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
? Are the issues people reported here with noise due to not having the segmented pressure bar? Another advantage of segmented pressure bar (per Felder) is planing of thinner stock.
Another option discussed here is the infeed roller with mixed feedback. The rubber coated one requires maintenance but the metal one may leave marks when taking light passes.
My Dual51 has segmented pressure bar, metal infeed roller and tersa head. I love tersa head, have no complains with metal infeed roller. If there are any marks they do not require any additional high grit sanding than I normally do. It is mentioned here that re-coating rubber infeed roller is, IIRC, $200-$300.
Imran On Feb 19, 2020, at 9:43 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Most planers over 20" have the segmented chipbreaker ( pressure beam ).? When I buy used, those parts and springs are the first to have problems but if buying new, not an issue.? I'm to the age where chasing multiple pieces back and forth doesn't appeal to
me and I don't do enough volume that I care about the flexibility of that option.? If it comes to money, I'd take the second outfeed roller or a Tersa or spiral head.? I'm a Tersa first, spiral second guy but I'm in the minority.? I'd also put the extra cash
into a bigger dust collector.? Dave
Lining up my wish list for the AD951 and KF 700, with the help of forum members I am clear on the overheadhead guard for the KF, and saving $750 (much needed) by not getting the integrated adjustable rollers in the bed of the AD951. Now I am looking at
the?segmented pressure beam for the 951. Anyone have experienced advice about it? Many thanks!
--
|
Re: segmented pressure beam for AD 951?
As always David a great explanation.?
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-------- Original message -------- From: david@... Date: 2020-02-19 10:17 a.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [FOG] segmented pressure beam for AD 951?
Let’s see if I can add some clarity here. ? I have a Dual 51 which is basically an AD951 with a different fence. ?I have the “sectional pressure bar” and rubber infeed & outfeed rollers. ? Here’s a photo from the top - planer infeed end is at the top:
All those grey lever gizmos are spring loaded and they individually push down on the material coming into the planer, and each is individually adjustable in terms of spring tension. ? They all pivot on a common shaft. ? The advantage of this setup, compared to the non-segmented system is that material of different thicknesses can be fed simultaneously (within a range of about 8mm variation). ?I find this particularly useful when bringing roughly ripped stiles and rails all to a common width, feeding them on edge next to each other in rapid succession. ? Without this segmented pressure system, a single sheet of spring steel is pressing down on the material being fed and the tallest portion or piece of that material will force the entire plate upward, leaving some areas or pieces without downward pressure. ??
In the following photo you can see in Blue where the the individual segments add downward pressure to the incoming material just ahead of the cutterblock. They also act as a chip breaker.
The following photo is the underside of the planer infeed end. ? The segmented pressure elements are outlined in Blue again here, but the anti-kickback pawls are outlined in Red. ? A planer with the standard (non-segmented) pressure bar has the same series of dangling anti-kickback elements.
Here is the parts diagram. ? The Green #17 is the standard single-plate pressure bar. ? The Red #21’s are the anti-kickback pawls. ?The blue #31 and associated components is the optional “sectional pressure bar”.
Here is the parts description. ?According to Google Translate on my iPhone (what a marvel of technology), #17 is “Smooth preassembled pressure beam”. ? #21 is “Antikickback device”, and #31 is “Welded segment block”.
David Best
Isn't what you are showing the anti kickback pawls? On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 7:56 AM imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ?The only similar option I am aware of is what Felder calls “sectional pressure bar”, shown below:
I thought this is what we are discussing. OP should clarify if he meant something different.
Can someone post what the alternative looks like? I assume it is just a chip breaker.
Imran ?Imran, yes to the noise but I am also under the impression from Felder that the sheet steel pressure shoe (Felder calls it that) had the wrong bend angle on that part causing the harmonics ( like to say squealing pig noise). Will find out next week with my replacement machine which will be newer build by a year. The noise can be minimized by waxing which I never did and I found another hack which was to put a piece of duct tape on it which helped a lot.
I personally would go for the segmented pressure bar and maybe the rubber rollers hear they are great for delicate work there was a recent (maybe 2 months?) about this,
Actually edit, not so sure about the advantage of the segmented pressure bar, I keep mixing it up in my head with the segmented infeed roller that my scm had which was great for small diff in size...
Regards, Mark On Feb 19, 2020, at 12:25 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
? Are the issues people reported here with noise due to not having the segmented pressure bar? Another advantage of segmented pressure bar (per Felder) is planing of thinner stock.
Another option discussed here is the infeed roller with mixed feedback. The rubber coated one requires maintenance but the metal one may leave marks when taking light passes.
My Dual51 has segmented pressure bar, metal infeed roller and tersa head. I love tersa head, have no complains with metal infeed roller. If there are any marks they do not require any additional high grit sanding than I normally do. It is mentioned here that re-coating rubber infeed roller is, IIRC, $200-$300.
Imran On Feb 19, 2020, at 9:43 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Most planers over 20" have the segmented chipbreaker ( pressure beam ).? When I buy used, those parts and springs are the first to have problems but if buying new, not an issue.? I'm to the age where chasing multiple pieces back and forth doesn't appeal to
me and I don't do enough volume that I care about the flexibility of that option.? If it comes to money, I'd take the second outfeed roller or a Tersa or spiral head.? I'm a Tersa first, spiral second guy but I'm in the minority.? I'd also put the extra cash
into a bigger dust collector.? Dave
Lining up my wish list for the AD951 and KF 700, with the help of forum members I am clear on the overheadhead guard for the KF, and saving $750 (much needed) by not getting the integrated adjustable rollers in the bed of the AD951. Now I am looking at
the?segmented pressure beam for the 951. Anyone have experienced advice about it? Many thanks!
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Re: segmented pressure beam for AD 951?
David,
Thanks for the clarity.
Imran? On Feb 19, 2020, at 8:17 PM, "david@..." <david@...> wrote:
? Let’s see if I can add some clarity here. ? I have a Dual 51 which is basically an AD951 with a different fence. ?I have the “sectional pressure bar” and rubber infeed & outfeed rollers. ? Here’s a photo from the top - planer infeed end is at the top:
All those grey lever gizmos are spring loaded and they individually push down on the material coming into the planer, and each is individually adjustable in terms of spring tension. ? They all pivot on a common shaft. ? The advantage of this setup, compared to the non-segmented system is that material of different thicknesses can be fed simultaneously (within a range of about 8mm variation). ?I find this particularly useful when bringing roughly ripped stiles and rails all to a common width, feeding them on edge next to each other in rapid succession. ? Without this segmented pressure system, a single sheet of spring steel is pressing down on the material being fed and the tallest portion or piece of that material will force the entire plate upward, leaving some areas or pieces without downward pressure. ??
In the following photo you can see in Blue where the the individual segments add downward pressure to the incoming material just ahead of the cutterblock. They also act as a chip breaker.
The following photo is the underside of the planer infeed end. ? The segmented pressure elements are outlined in Blue again here, but the anti-kickback pawls are outlined in Red. ? A planer with the standard (non-segmented) pressure bar has the same series of dangling anti-kickback elements.
Here is the parts diagram. ? The Green #17 is the standard single-plate pressure bar. ? The Red #21’s are the anti-kickback pawls. ?The blue #31 and associated components is the optional “sectional pressure bar”.
Here is the parts description. ?According to Google Translate on my iPhone (what a marvel of technology), #17 is “Smooth preassembled pressure beam”. ? #21 is “Antikickback device”, and #31 is “Welded segment block”.
David Best
Isn't what you are showing the anti kickback pawls? On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 7:56 AM imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ?The only similar option I am aware of is what Felder calls “sectional pressure bar”, shown below:
<1559-gliederdruckbalken~-~540w@...>
I thought this is what we are discussing. OP should clarify if he meant something different.
Can someone post what the alternative looks like? I assume it is just a chip breaker.
Imran ?Imran, yes to the noise but I am also under the impression from Felder that the sheet steel pressure shoe (Felder calls it that) had the wrong bend angle on that part causing the harmonics ( like to say squealing pig noise). Will find out next week with my replacement machine which will be newer build by a year. The noise can be minimized by waxing which I never did and I found another hack which was to put a piece of duct tape on it which helped a lot.
I personally would go for the segmented pressure bar and maybe the rubber rollers hear they are great for delicate work there was a recent (maybe 2 months?) about this,
Actually edit, not so sure about the advantage of the segmented pressure bar, I keep mixing it up in my head with the segmented infeed roller that my scm had which was great for small diff in size...
Regards, Mark On Feb 19, 2020, at 12:25 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
? Are the issues people reported here with noise due to not having the segmented pressure bar? Another advantage of segmented pressure bar (per Felder) is planing of thinner stock.
Another option discussed here is the infeed roller with mixed feedback. The rubber coated one requires maintenance but the metal one may leave marks when taking light passes.
My Dual51 has segmented pressure bar, metal infeed roller and tersa head. I love tersa head, have no complains with metal infeed roller. If there are any marks they do not require any additional high grit sanding than I normally do. It is mentioned here that re-coating rubber infeed roller is, IIRC, $200-$300.
Imran On Feb 19, 2020, at 9:43 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Most planers over 20" have the segmented chipbreaker ( pressure beam ).? When I buy used, those parts and springs are the first to have problems but if buying new, not an issue.? I'm to the age where chasing multiple pieces back and forth doesn't appeal to
me and I don't do enough volume that I care about the flexibility of that option.? If it comes to money, I'd take the second outfeed roller or a Tersa or spiral head.? I'm a Tersa first, spiral second guy but I'm in the minority.? I'd also put the extra cash
into a bigger dust collector.? Dave
Lining up my wish list for the AD951 and KF 700, with the help of forum members I am clear on the overheadhead guard for the KF, and saving $750 (much needed) by not getting the integrated adjustable rollers in the bed of the AD951. Now I am looking at
the?segmented pressure beam for the 951. Anyone have experienced advice about it? Many thanks!
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Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 03:55 PM, Anil wrote:
Have you seen any issues with the blade chewing up the rubber - having a slight crown should help (I thought it was flat actually).
The teeth from a 3/8" blade running in the center of my FB610 chew into the rubber a little bit.? ?You can feel little raised nibs with your finger.? You can see in the this pic the line where the teeth run.? The teeth make small indentations which in which particles collect.? I suspect it would take a long time before this was a problem.? I run blades in the middle, so the teeth of wider blades don't touch the rubber due to the crown. 
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Re: Latest in Woodworking
Hi Jarret,
I had two first cousins in Sharjah but now there is only one as his brother emigrated to Canada. I am surprised that there is a Felder dealership in Sharjah and can imagine low price used market due to lack of buyers. That AD951 is certainly a bargain at $3K. Would not surprise me if one of the princes has a full shop with literally gold plated cutter heads.
I was helping another relative with importing a shipping container of wood to Pakistan from USA and speaking with lumber dealers I learned that Ash is much liked there.
My parents house was built 42 yrs ago. After completion of the structure a father and son literally moved in and spent a month to do all the wood work. Not a single power tool.
For the last 30 yrs my annual pilgrimage back home was thru London since my sister lives there but few yrs back I started making ?3/4 trips each year so to keep the cost low I have been taking a more direct route thru Doha on Qatar Airways. It is the best airline I have flown. They literally follow each time a passenger exists the restroom to ensure it is clean, put a paper cover on the seat and Qtr the toilet paper end. This in economy. They also give you a care package in economy that I have only received in business class on other airlines.
Anyhow, you must be considering a long term stay to build a shop there. Keep us posted.
Imran On Feb 19, 2020, at 6:51 PM, Jarrett Maxwell <j.a.max7@...> wrote:
? Imran,?
I've traveled to the United Arab Emirates several times. My wife is looking at a teaching position and I'm considering relocating my woodworking business there if we take the position. I've visited a couple shops in Sharjah that had similar types and vintage machines. I was amazed at how skilled the local guys were considering the tools they were using.?
I visited the local Felder dealer in Sharjah. I've been following some local used machinery websites and I recently saw a used 2012? AD951 in excellent condition sell for $3k USD. I'm not sure what fair market value is but it seemed like a bargain.?
Jarrett? On Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 2:18 AM imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Jonathan,
I actually enjoy photography very much. I would enjoy such a book very much. Maybe once my better half retires I could work on that during our travels.
Imran ? Imran
Great photo, thanks for sharing!?
I would like to see a coffee table book of "woodworking machines from around?the world" now that you are retired it might be a good project?for you ?
Jonathan?
Imran, Where is that picture taken.
Jon S
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of imranindiana via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 9:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [FOG] Latest in Woodworking
I saw this yesterday in local market. They were edging sheets and I could
smell it from distance.
It was still there this morning so thought I share.
Imran
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Albert Lee
Sang Luu
imran