Hi Joe I do not feel 30 years old is very old for woodwork.? Much of the modern standard is a 50 life span at best. It's sad because trees will often take 100 or more years to grow to where they will produce quality material. It's a down ward spiral. Most of my work incorporates successful designs from 100 to 200 year old furniture and architectural work. If maintained I see no reason why the things I make should not last just as long as the pieces that inspired them given the same care to maintenance is given. I work with Koa most often for furniture and do not expect that there will be a viable supply left for harvest 15 years from now. It's quite sad. Most of what is harvested is newer growth and a poor quality. I feel a social responsibility to build to my highest possible standard.
For doors and most mortice and tenon work I use thru tenons. When mortices were hand cut, they often were thru tenons. This made it easier to cut a square parallel piped hole accurately coming from both sides as opposed to a blind mortise. Even with a chisel mortiser if the chisel wanders or the table? or stock is out a little any error can be corrected by mortising half way thru either side to get a joint that mates up squarely. Further A thru tenon has more structural integrity than a blind mortised tenon. Seems the industry stard for M&T seems to be 2.5" which I feel is inadequate.? If you look at doors 100 years old or more many or most will be thru tenon. After the glue eventually fails from a 100 years of seasonal cycling of shrinking and expanding even if the glue joint does not break, the the wood fibers will tear away from themselves. Then your relying on your joinery to hold your work together.? The joint has to be compressed together to create the tension needed to hold the joint tight. I feel the " leave room for glue" is just an excuse for poor cutting of the joinery.? Glue manufactures like TB will state 3mil glue, and that it's not intended to fill voids or gaps. So if your joint has enough play to "adjust "during glue up theres gaps. And after the glue fails.....? Quality Old doors with thru tenons, made with properly dried material and sound joinery hold there form even though you can see the glue has failed.Given a thickness of part that will accommodate, will use double tenons. So there fore doubling the strength. And there are times on cedar sliding doors and windows where I do not glue them at all. The joints need to be tight enough where they need to be hammered together. Otherwise I have moved to hide glue by Old Brown Glue for it's reversible quality where if I need to disassemble the work I can heat the part and worry the joinery apart. Hide glue is one of the few adhesives that truly will bond to a dry coat of itself.
Thanks fro the info on your tenon set. Ive talked to Greg more than a few times . Just waiting for a large enough? door order where I can budget in the cost.
?I think listening to all you guys has made me set on getting a felder? to replace my T130 with sliding table. I saw the format on ebay a few months back was really temped. Hope to buy new for warrantee etc. To the Op if your reading I think the other thing not mention in regard to router table vs shaper is that you will rarely if ever get burn marks on the profile. Unless you put the cutter on backwards...... funny it still milled the OHgee, black as black it was lol. ---In felder-woodworking@..., <dohertyj@...> wrote : Hi Corey,
The big tenon cutters are part of a Leitz Euro window set. ?
The max depth of tenon is about 90mm. ?Since the big tenon cutters are part of a window set and are made to make crossed lapped tenons the cutters have a corresponding mate that makes a joint that is a specific width. ?The standard finished stile and rail width for this set is 78mm so the tenon and its cross lapped mate have to account for this length. ?For doors I can make the stiles and rails up to 90mm wide. ?Then I hit the limit of tenon depth as the cutters are mounted on 80 mm sleeves.
If I want to go wider for a tall bottom rail then I mill off the tenons on the rail and use dowels.
So what is your reference for all glue failing on cross grain surfaces? ?Over what time period?
While at the Thonet furniture factory in Germany last May I saw Windows used in their museum made with cross lapped tenons and there was no evidence that the corner glue joints were failing. ?I am guessing that the windows were 20 to 30 years old. ?I noticed these windows because they had a 4mm air gap and were 58mm thick. ?This is similar to the euro windows I make. ?Europe has moved on to thicker more energy efficient windows so 58mm windows are now obsolete. ?I think they still work well for New Orleans climate though. ?
HI Joe, what 300mm tenon cutter did you purchase? Max length of tenon? Cost? I've been looking for similar for big door tenons and smaller timber work like gate projects. 5" tenon would even be more useful/ Ideally I would want the ability to cut twin tenons with spacers.? I hope the large set would be equally useful on shorter tenons for cabinet door size work. I do alot of twin tenons as it locates the rails to the stiles veryy squarely and solidly ( is that a word??) Also when the glue fails ( glue fails?always?over time on cross grain faces) the twin tenons will hold the form twice as well as a single tenon. Unsure if you anyone is interested in twin tenons, but Nakahashi sells a twin mortise chuck for chisel mortices that allow you to cut two side by side mortices at once. Meant for smaller work, couple configurations but 6mm tenons spaced 6mm apart is an option with two other choices with minor variances.
My thought on the length of rip fence is mostly regarding my use of solid wood more than ply. I only buy a couple sheets a year for jigs and such.? ?So the wider rip capacity I feel is more convenient for solid work that may may be over 8'.? I think my fence( not felder) is 54"? I just feel the wider rip lets you cut longer pieces in half with out flipping the board around so much.
?another thought on having a slider for the OP is that I don't really like having to rip cut many sticks at at time on it. Few rip cuts here and there fine but kept my old unisaw for a dedicated rip saw for? stripping boards. I ! actually cut the fence down to 12" hug it up to the back of the shaper and share the feeder from the shaper with it. Only three horse, have been gagging with fast feeds for a some time and it still won't die. Miles of molding blanks and sticker for drying lumber sometimes at speeds as much as 60+ fpm.? I also worried that the sliding table is aluminum and dont want to where the edge from long runs of production ripping. Just thoughts. Sorry they are so random.... ?Happy new year! Best to you all great conversation love reading your posts thankyou ?
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Getting 1 1/4" shaper cutters isn't difficult.? I order from Greg at Rangate and the quality of their cutters is excellent. Dave
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That is most likely the same machine, a KF700SP with 9¡¯ slider, manual controls with dial indicators. 49¡± rip. I would have ordered the smaller rip but the deal was to good to pass on. They were using the machine for demos at the open house, It has only been run those two days.
I am not quiet sure about educating Liz. I did share a tidbit about the A3-31 and buying and second wider end rail for the top table where the fence mounts. My KF will have a 1 1/4 spindle being that i how they standard spec the unit. If I had ordered I would have gotten the 30mm as suggested here, I will share that tidbit with Liz as well.
Off to try to figure out shipping and delivery.
Mark
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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The hinge point on the Hammer C3 tilt bracket is at the top next to the attachment rail - on most of the other Hammer/Felder tilt brackets the hinge point is further away from the rail by a few inches. If you go to the Felder e shop and look at the photos of the accessories for the feeders, you'll see what I mean
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Re: Comatic DC40 on a Felder KF700SP
I don't see the images.? The few times I've tried to attach pictures they were also stripped out.
On Jan 12, 2018 11:41 AM, " vnh84@... [felder-woodworking]" < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
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They show up as image holder tags ([image#.jpeg], not the actual image themselves.??
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That is most likely the same machine, a KF700SP with 9¡¯ slider, manual controls with dial indicators. 49¡± rip. I would have ordered the smaller rip but the deal was to good to pass on. They were using the machine for demos at the open house, It has only been run those two days.
I am not quiet sure about educating Liz. I did share a tidbit about the A3-31 and buying and second wider end rail for the top table where the fence mounts. My KF will have a 1 1/4 spindle being that i how they standard spec the unit. If I had ordered I would have gotten the 30mm as suggested here, I will share that tidbit with Liz as well.
Off to try to figure out shipping and delivery.
Mark
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David: How did you get into my shop and take the pictures of my mess? We don¡¯t even know each other. Gil Fuqua One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries. A.A. Milne ¨C Winnie the Pooh author From: felder-woodworking@... [mailto:felder-woodworking@...] Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 2:44 AM To: rcorselli@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] KF 700 SP options You guys are funny. OCD has it¡¯s advantages and disadvantages. And people vary a great deal in terms of their need for organization and keeping the shop clean and tidy. When I¡¯m busy with a project, my shop can look like a tornado ripped through it. But personally, I can¡¯t work in such an environment for long without starting to twitch. On a trip this past year, I visited a dear friend (who will remain nameless) who is distinctly in the opposite camp. He thrives when everything is out and he can hop from one thing to another. Here¡¯s a few photos: The friend who owns this shop does amazing work, is also a Felder owner, and is an engineering genius - not to mention one of the nicest guys you¡¯ll ever meet. But I was afraid I¡¯d run out of Xanax before I was scheduled to leave. One of the best tricks I¡¯ve learned to keep the shop clean is to have high pressure compressed air, a long coiled hose with high output spray nozzle and a floor sweep for my dust extractor. I first put on my gas mask, turn on the extractor and the floor sweep blast gate opens, then I make two big loops from the far end of the shop spraying down everything towards the floor sweep as I get closer and closer to it. Once I¡¯m finished, my housecleaner empties the extractor bin with her Dyson Animal vacuum cleaner so I can reuse the plastic bin liners - and restocks the shop refrigerator with Champaign, refills the humidor with fresh Chesterfield Kings and disinfects the hookah. LOL David Best On Jan 11, 2018, at 9:54 PM, GLEN chris3645@... <mailto:chris3645@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...> > wrote: He must have a night shift that cleans the place. I hope when i get set up in my shop I can keep it as clean as his. -----Original Message----- From: mfsta2lt@... <mailto:mfsta2lt@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...> > To: felder-woodworking <felder-woodworking@... <mailto: [email protected]> > Sent: Thu, Jan 11, 2018 9:09 pm Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] KF 700 SP options Yea when I was there you could have eaten off the floor. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Imran,
That is great. No problem, I can wait, it is not urgent. I can lift and lower the heavy F48 :)
Thanks, James
On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 12:29 PM, imranindiana@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
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James,
I do not have hammer but looking at the pics the tilt away mechanism is different for Felder vs Hammer. I have the gas spring attached to the bracket on my Felder. The bracket engineering print is in files under FOG made products.
I am out of the country until end of Jan. If you can wait, upon return, I can send the complete instructions I received from a FOG member regarding the Big Lift. Perhaps it was Brian, but I ma not sure.
Imran
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James,
I do not have hammer but looking at the pics the tilt away mechanism is different for Felder vs Hammer. I have the gas spring attached to the bracket on my Felder. The bracket engineering print is in files under FOG made products.
I am out of the country until end of Jan. If you can wait, upon return, I can send the complete instructions I received from a FOG member regarding the Big Lift. Perhaps it was Brian, but I ma not sure.
Imran
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If I remember from the original postings many years ago it was for leverage and mechanical advantage. Never done one as I have?really no need for one and?zero interest. I do remember the discussions though and while not as simple as bolting on a shock there maybe other issues with the Felders vs Hammers.
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John,
Just curious why the gas spring is not attached directly to the tilt bracket flat base like Andy did on his hammer bracket?
Thanks, James
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Option 11 is a switch that controls the rotational direction of the shaper spindle.
Option 91 is a support arm to hold the extraction hose to the saw guard when the Euro II style saw guard is used and mounted to the riving knife/splitter (instead of being mounted to an overhead guard bracket, which is option 81). ? You can see #91 it in the top photo on this web page: ?
You can see option 81 at this page:
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David Best
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What is "Option 11 - Switch for forward and reverse run"?? It is supposedly a standard equipment option, but I have no idea what it is for and where are the switches???
What about "Option 91-Extractor hose mounting for rip capacity 31¡±/49¡± (800/1250 mm)"?? What does it mean?? I really wish Felder would have more pictures/better explanation of all these options.
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John,
Just curious why the gas spring is not attached directly to the tilt bracket flat base like Andy did on his hammer bracket?
Thanks, James
On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 11:33 AM, John Kee jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
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James here's some pics of Felder with the gas shock and mounting bracket, there is also plans somewhere. I don't need one so maybe one of others can show them to you. If not my friend Fred has the setup mounted on his K500. I believe he also has detailed plans.
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It was their part number 9416K21 225lb rating. You need a gas spring rated higher than the combined weight of the stand/feeder due to leverage
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Re: Comatic DC40 on a Felder KF700SP
They show up as image holder tags ([image#.jpeg], not the actual image themselves.??
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Are there pictures of Felder's?? How is it compared to the above version?? Thanks for the URL.
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Re: Comatic DC40 on a Felder KF700SP
I am curious, does anyone see these images? They dont show up even on the Yahoo Group page.
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James here's some pics of Felder with the gas shock and mounting bracket, there is also plans somewhere. I don't need one so maybe one of others can show them to you. If not my friend Fred has the setup mounted on his K500. I believe he also has detailed plans.
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Andy,
Could you post a picture for your Hammer tilt bracket with the gas spring from McMaster? I want to see how you mount the gas spring on the bracket. I have Felder tilt bracket.
Thanks, James
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Comatic DC40 on a Felder KF700SP
Here are a few pics for the those who can see them. If you want me to email separately send me your email¡joe
Joe.jensen@...
[image1.jpeg]
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[image5.jpeg]
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On Jan 12, 2018, at 8:18 AM, Vunghi Hoang <vnh84@...<mailto:vnh84@...>> wrote:
Hi Joe,
Thanks for your help with the KF 700 SP options. If you don't mind, I'd like to take you up on your offer of the photos of your customized power feeder stand/attachment with gas strut. I have the option quoted by Liz Rogers, but not 100% sure it is worth the money as the picture in Felder catalog is inadequate in showing off the item.
Regards,
Vunghi Hoang (aka SW)
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What is "Option 11 - Switch for forward and reverse run"?? It is supposedly a standard equipment option, but I have no idea what it is for and where are the switches???
What about "Option 91-Extractor hose mounting for rip capacity 31¡±/49¡± (800/1250 mm)"?? What does it mean?? I really wish Felder would have more pictures/better explanation of all these options.
?
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Before I upgraded to the Comatic, I had my PF Euro-plug mounted on the Profil, and the power came from the shaper main supply line and it was not a delayed circuit or tied to the motor running ?- it was active as long as the main power switch on the Profil was turned on. ? This may not be how Felder normally configures it if rigged by the factory, but I know it can be done easily inside the electrical box of the machine by moving a couple of wires. ??
Getting the e-stop to disable a normally-on PF voltage supply supply would require a normally closed DIN relay with some kind of triggering circuit tied into the e-stop circuit or button. ? Here is such a relay - how you¡¯d wire that to the e-stop requires some investigation, and the PF would need to be single-phase as that relay is single pole:
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David Best
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Here¡¯s my take on this. ?The Felder feeder has manual (not magnetic) on-off switch. ?If the switch is left on, the feeder comes on with the shaper motor. ?I believe the Comatic has a magnetic or similar on-off switch and ordinarily has to be powered up once the shaper is running. ?On either feeder, power is only supplied when the shaper is running. ?At least, that¡¯s the way mine is configured, I believe. ?I¡¯m not an electrical guru, so there are probably other options for powering up the feeder. Gary
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I did, and I don¡¯t believe it. ? His feeder may be tied into the main power switch on the Profil, but I don¡¯t see how the feeder can be configured to power on when the spindle motor is actuated. ? Maybe there¡¯s some hack to the Comatic feeder that allows it to start up in the RUN position, but I have my doubts.
David Best
David,
Did you read Lucky¡¯s post about his feeder starting and stopping with the spindle?
Joe in New Orleans
This is confusing to me. ? How do you get the Comatic feeder to automatically start running when power is applied to it? ? If I start my Comatic feeder, unplug it, then plug it back in, it powers back up on the OFF mode and I have to press the start switch on the feeder again to get it running - which is the way it should be for safety purposes.. ? So I seriously doubt John¡¯s feeder starts running by itself when the shaper spindle switch is depressed.
Having the power to the PF unavailable if the shaper motor is not running would drive me nuts - setting up the feeder to track accurately is trial and error and I usually test the feeder tracking setup without the spindle turning until I¡¯m certain it¡¯s aligned properly. ??
David Best
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Gary,
That is interesting.
There must be options that can be set.
I think John Ferandin¡¯s Profile 45z has a time delay then starts the feeder after the spindle is started and then the feeder stops when the spindle stops.?
I never hooked my feeder to the shaper plug because I did not want to the feeder to start and stop this way.
Joe in New Orleans
Gary Blasingame 195 Red Fox RunAthens, Georgia 30605706-353-8629706-540-2130 (Cell)garyblasingame@...
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Mark Foster
imran
David P. Best
Joe Jensen