Help with moving a Felder CY731

Hello,?

?

My father-in-law recently passed, and he had a Felder combination machine (731-03) in his shop along with a Felder bandsaw (FB-40). I need to move both in advance of selling his house, but haven't the faintest idea as to how do to so. Would appreciate any guidance as to how they can be moved safely. The combination machine has a long (10ft?) slide which I presume needs to be removed prior to moving the base, but am not clear how to do so. I assume there have to be some guides as to how to move a felder, but so far I have been unable to find anything.?

?

Thx,

Calvin Keaton?

Re: Fixing butt hinges on the edge of MDF doors (!!!)

#140019

Dave to give you an idea of what we are talking about all these images are MDF doors with brass butts, normally I use tulip wood for the frames....but have also used MDF for the frames.

Screws I use are Spax 3x30 and 65mm brass butts

Show quoted text

On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 at 11:57, aero_qfi via <davesawdon=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks for the quick replies.

?

Morgan:
I hadn't considered using tee hinges for the outer doors. They would be more robust than the Blum "click-top" type but I will need to consult with my in-house head of aesthetics.
I forgot to mention that the centre doors need to open outwards, so I can't put hinges on the rear of the stiles - unless they have extended and cranked leaves ... but they also need to lift-off.

?

Jason:
That's what I was considering, but longer than 25mm in order to give a larger load-spreading area. I'd thought of softwood to reduce the bursting risk, but I guess hardwood with a well-piloted screw hole would be good.

?

Jonathan:

That's very interesting - so perhaps I'm fussing needlessly. I'll do some tests with these before making a decision.

?

Dave (in the UK)

--

Kindest Regards

Jonathan Samways

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Re: Fixing butt hinges on the edge of MDF doors (!!!)

#140018

Thanks for the quick replies.

?

Morgan:
I hadn't considered using tee hinges for the outer doors. They would be more robust than the Blum "click-top" type but I will need to consult with my in-house head of aesthetics.
I forgot to mention that the centre doors need to open outwards, so I can't put hinges on the rear of the stiles - unless they have extended and cranked leaves ... but they also need to lift-off.

?

Jason:
That's what I was considering, but longer than 25mm in order to give a larger load-spreading area. I'd thought of softwood to reduce the bursting risk, but I guess hardwood with a well-piloted screw hole would be good.

?

Jonathan:

That's very interesting - so perhaps I'm fussing needlessly. I'll do some tests with these before making a decision.

?

Dave (in the UK)

Re: K700S vs Format4 K450X Impressions

#140017

Hi,?

Just to let you?know that my Felder 945S has the exact same flange/pin design as John's Kappa 450. I suppose it might have something to do with stopping a size 450mm blade.?

Regards,?

Cornelius Schultze-Kraft?

Cyprus?

Re: K700S vs Format4 K450X Impressions

#140016

开云体育

Imran’s saw to which you refer is a K975. ?The pins on the cap secure the cap to the saw arbor so that it doesn’t spin loose when breaking is applied. ?The same pins exist on the cap for the Kappa 400 for the same reason. ?I’m guessing the reason Felder went back to a pin-though-blade setup on the Kappa 450 has something to do with the availability of the Easy-Lock system on that machine. ?

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best

Show quoted text

On Feb 16, 2025, at 5:33?PM, John Hinman via groups.io <jhinman1911@...> wrote:

It seems counter-intuitive that the K700S, with a maximum blade size of 315 mm, would have pins and the Kappa 400 with larger blade capacity does not.

?

It sounds like Imran’s saw has pins in the outer cover flange (the part visible after a blade is installed, but those pins do not engage the arbor. It is not clear to me what those pins would do.

--

John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941

Re: K700S vs Format4 K450X Impressions

#140015

It seems counter-intuitive that the K700S, with a maximum blade size of 315 mm, would have pins and the Kappa 400 with larger blade capacity does not.

?

It sounds like Imran’s saw has pins in the outer cover flange (the part visible after a blade is installed, but those pins do not engage the arbor. It is not clear to me what those pins would do.

--

John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941

Re: Fixing butt hinges on the edge of MDF doors (!!!)

#140014

Dave, 99% of high end uk kitchen manufacturers that produce painted face frame stuff use MR MDF doors and butt hinges. The trick is to pre drill for the screw, use a longish quality screw like assay or spax and do not over tighten the screw.?

I’ve done it 100s of times over the last 40 years and never had a call back

Kindest Regards

Jonathan Samways

Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario y puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial. Si no es vd.el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin autorización está prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción.
This message is intended exclusively for its addressee and may contain information that is confidential and protected by professional privilege.If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copy or disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited by law. If this message has been received in error, please immediately notify us via e-mail and delete it.

Show quoted text

On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 at 23:54, Morgan Skinner via <morgan=morganskinner.com@groups.io> wrote:

I built the attached MDF doors about 10 years ago and they are as good now as the day I built them. Each of the leaves is about 910 x 290, so smaller than yours but also made from 18mm MDF, so I’d estimate they are roughly equivalent in weight.?

All I did was attach the hinges to the face rather than the edge - I believe you could do the same. If you did want to reinforce the edge, I’d rout a dado at the back of the door and inset a batten from top to bottom, giving you heaps of glue area.?

Hope this helps!

Regards,

Morgan

On 16 Feb 2025, at 21:15, aero_qfi via <davesawdon=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

?
I know that this is a bad idea, and I have never before used butt hinges with MDF doors, but I want to explore whether anybody has been foolish enough to do the same thing - and succeed.

?

I needed to put doors on a large cupboard that houses an oil heating boiler and an unvented hot water cylinder. The cupboard is in a utility room that may become humid so, because of the heat and (possible) humidity, I decided to use MR MDF for stability, with 80x18 rails and stiles and 6mm panels. There are 3 doors horizontally and 2 vertically, each is about 550x1160. The outer ones will be hinged to the door lining using Blum hinges (frameless, inset) but the centre door needs to be hung off one of the others (a sort of bi-fold) and needs to be removable for service access - this is where I'm thinking of using lift-off butt hinges. Clearly, I can't just screw into the edge of the MDF so I'm considering whether to inset some softwood into the edge to accept the screws, or to make some cross-grain dowels and inserting them to take the screws, or to attempt to buy/fabricate cranked hinges that will attach to the rear face, or ... ?

Sorry for the long, non-Felder-related ramble, but I'd be grateful for any comments and suggestions.

?

Dave (in the UK)

Re: K700S vs Format4 K450X Impressions

#140013

开云体育

OK, that’s what I figured based on your description. ?This is totally different from the Kappa 400 arrangement which does NOT have pins that go through pin holes in the blade. ?I guess Felder decided that a 450mm blade needs positive engagement beyond just clamping force to brake the blade without the securing cap coming unscrewed and loose.

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best

Show quoted text

On Feb 16, 2025, at 3:59?PM, John Hinman via groups.io <jhinman1911@...> wrote:

This is the other side, with the flange in place. This is what it looks like when ready to install a new blade.

<IMG_3262.jpeg>

--

John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941

Re: K700S vs Format4 K450X Impressions

#140012

开云体育

I am very interested in how to get the rip fence closer to the blade!

John,

I have a rip fence extrusion that is shorter than the normal one specifically for bump-stop use. ?You can buy it from Felder?.

When using this fence with a 300mm blade, it’s impossible to get the fence extrusion to overlap with the blade since it isn’t long enough, but it works well as a bump stop.

So to use this as a bump stop and defeat the 3mm gap that the positioning system won’t go beyond, install the fence extrusion with the wide face down, and push it far enough forward that the limit switch is tricked into thinking that fence is installed in the vertical position as shown below:

With the fence in that position, you can enter the value 42mm into the rip fence position on the heads-up display, and then push start. ?(The fence extrusion is 42mm taller than it is wide). ?Once that is done, pull the fence extrusion back over the limit switch, and lock the fence extrusion to the rip fence housing, and you’ll see the fence is now at the Zero position relative to the right side of the blade kerf. ?

As long as you are using a fence extrusion that isn’t long enough to overlap the blade when pushed forward enough to defeat the limit switch, you don’t risk getting the blade trapped and forced into and bending your saw blade. ?This is the reason I use the short fence. ?You can do the same with the long fence, but instead of pushing it forward, you’ll remove completely by pulling it backward, then set the display and housing, then reinstall the extrusion. ?Hope that’s clear. ?The short fence extrusion is for safety.

Let’s take the case where you want to have the bump stop positioned for a 1mm trim cut off the edge of a door. ?Assuming the blade kerf width is 3.3mm, you’d push the fence forward so the limit switch is NOT activated, then enter 39.7 (42mm - 2.3mm) into the display, push start, the fence housing moves, pull the fence extrusion back over that limit switch and lock it in position, and you’re display will read “ -2.2 “ leaving 1mm of the blade kerf exposed for the trimming cut. ?Of course at this point, you’d push your material against the fence extrusion and lock it to the slider with clamps before proceeding with the cut.

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best

Re: K700S vs Format4 K450X Impressions

#140011

This is the other side, with the flange in place. This is what it looks like when ready to install a new blade.

--

John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941

Re: WB Sanding Belts

#140010

Thanks Joe,

I have two pressure washers here at the homestead. Neither provide hot water.  I hadn't thought of how I would hang them to clean them.  It makes sense to avoid creasing them, or stressing the seam any more than necessary. 

I did take another page out of your book and built hangers for the unused belts out of 4" PVC pipe.

I'll try your method and see how well it works.  

Alex B.

Show quoted text

On 02/16/2025 7:59 AM PST Joe Calhoon via groups.io <joecalhoon@...> wrote:

 
Hi Alex,
I use soap at the car wash but I think it’s the hot water that does the trick. Just be careful not to crease the belts. I hang them on the floor mat clips and do it in thirds so not to crease them.
If you remember I have my belts on rounded hangers in the shop. I let them dry on that. Also hang new belts on those for a day before putting them in the machine.

Re: Fixing butt hinges on the edge of MDF doors (!!!)

#140009

I've had to do this before. I plowed a dado in the edge of the doors and glued in a piece of hardwood maybe 12x25 mm. All the screws go into the wood and it works fine.?

Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765

--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406

Re: K700S vs Format4 K450X Impressions

#140008

开云体育

John, can you show me the flip side of this flange with another photo please”

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best

Show quoted text

On Feb 16, 2025, at 1:50?PM, John Hinman via groups.io <jhinman1911@...> wrote:

David, I am attaching a sequence of photos. 1 - saw blade installed, 2 - saw blade removed showing flange and pins, and 3 - arbor with flange removed and the back side of the flange. The short pins protruding from the back of the flange mate with notches at the arbor.

<IMG_3260.jpeg>

<IMG_3261.jpeg>

<IMG_3264.jpeg>

?

I recall seeing your remote pull-cord for the overhead guard, and had planned to implement that even before I received the saw.

?

I am very interested in how to get the rip fence closer to the blade!

?

?

--

John Hinman
Boise ID USA
Kappa 450X and A941

Re: Fixing butt hinges on the edge of MDF doors (!!!)

#140007

开云体育

I built the attached MDF doors about 10 years ago and they are as good now as the day I built them. Each of the leaves is about 910 x 290, so smaller than yours but also made from 18mm MDF, so I’d estimate they are roughly equivalent in weight.?

All I did was attach the hinges to the face rather than the edge - I believe you could do the same. If you did want to reinforce the edge, I’d rout a dado at the back of the door and inset a batten from top to bottom, giving you heaps of glue area.?

Hope this helps!

Regards,

Morgan

Show quoted text

On 16 Feb 2025, at 21:15, aero_qfi via groups.io <davesawdon@...> wrote:

?
I know that this is a bad idea, and I have never before used butt hinges with MDF doors, but I want to explore whether anybody has been foolish enough to do the same thing - and succeed.

?

I needed to put doors on a large cupboard that houses an oil heating boiler and an unvented hot water cylinder. The cupboard is in a utility room that may become humid so, because of the heat and (possible) humidity, I decided to use MR MDF for stability, with 80x18 rails and stiles and 6mm panels. There are 3 doors horizontally and 2 vertically, each is about 550x1160. The outer ones will be hinged to the door lining using Blum hinges (frameless, inset) but the centre door needs to be hung off one of the others (a sort of bi-fold) and needs to be removable for service access - this is where I'm thinking of using lift-off butt hinges. Clearly, I can't just screw into the edge of the MDF so I'm considering whether to inset some softwood into the edge to accept the screws, or to make some cross-grain dowels and inserting them to take the screws, or to attempt to buy/fabricate cranked hinges that will attach to the rear face, or ... ?

Sorry for the long, non-Felder-related ramble, but I'd be grateful for any comments and suggestions.

?

Dave (in the UK)

Re: K700S vs Format4 K450X Impressions

#140006

开云体育

Thanks John. The pictures showed it but it did not show both sides of the rear flange. Interesting, maybe, David B has an idea of this. My 2006 K975, has no pins on either side of the rear flange. Only pins are on the front flange. They go in the holes in the arbor. Apparently, the holes within the arbor are not used in your case.

K975 uses a different flange on the front when dado is used. I am going for memory, but IIRC this front flange does not have any pins.

Imran Malik

IAM Wood Creations

Show quoted text

On Feb 16, 2025, at 5:42?PM, John Hinman via groups.io <jhinman1911@...> wrote:

?

Imran, that is correct for the K450X. For the K700S the pins are permanently mounted into the arbor assembly.

--

John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941

Re: K700S vs Format4 K450X Impressions

#140005

Imran, that is correct for the K450X. For the K700S the pins are permanently mounted into the arbor assembly.

--

John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941

Re: K700S vs Format4 K450X Impressions

#140004

开云体育

Hi John,

Just to be clear. The rear flange has pins on both sides, to mate with the recess in the arbor and the holes in the blade?

Imran Malik

IAM Wood Creations

Show quoted text

On Feb 16, 2025, at 4:50?PM, John Hinman via groups.io <jhinman1911@...> wrote:

?

David, I am attaching a sequence of photos. 1 - saw blade installed, 2 - saw blade removed showing flange and pins, and 3 - arbor with flange removed and the back side of the flange. The short pins protruding from the back of the flange mate with notches at the arbor.

<IMG_3260.jpeg>

<IMG_3261.jpeg>

<IMG_3264.jpeg>

?

I recall seeing your remote pull-cord for the overhead guard, and had planned to implement that even before I received the saw.

?

I am very interested in how to get the rip fence closer to the blade!

?

--

John Hinman
Boise ID USA
Kappa 450X and A941

Re: K700S vs Format4 K450X Impressions

#140003

David, I am attaching a sequence of photos. 1 - saw blade installed, 2 - saw blade removed showing flange and pins, and 3 - arbor with flange removed and the back side of the flange. The short pins protruding from the back of the flange mate with notches at the arbor.

?

I recall seeing your remote pull-cord for the overhead guard, and had planned to implement that even before I received the saw.

?

I am very interested in how to get the rip fence closer to the blade!

?

--

John Hinman
Boise ID USA
Kappa 450X and A941

Fixing butt hinges on the edge of MDF doors (!!!)

#140002

I know that this is a bad idea, and I have never before used butt hinges with MDF doors, but I want to explore whether anybody has been foolish enough to do the same thing - and succeed.

?

I needed to put doors on a large cupboard that houses an oil heating boiler and an unvented hot water cylinder. The cupboard is in a utility room that may become humid so, because of the heat and (possible) humidity, I decided to use MR MDF for stability, with 80x18 rails and stiles and 6mm panels. There are 3 doors horizontally and 2 vertically, each is about 550x1160. The outer ones will be hinged to the door lining using Blum hinges (frameless, inset) but the centre door needs to be hung off one of the others (a sort of bi-fold) and needs to be removable for service access - this is where I'm thinking of using lift-off butt hinges. Clearly, I can't just screw into the edge of the MDF so I'm considering whether to inset some softwood into the edge to accept the screws, or to make some cross-grain dowels and inserting them to take the screws, or to attempt to buy/fabricate cranked hinges that will attach to the rear face, or ... ?

Sorry for the long, non-Felder-related ramble, but I'd be grateful for any comments and suggestions.

?

Dave (in the UK)

Re: Options for sheet good support on K700s

#140001

开云体育

Hi Darrell,

You may already be aware of this option. This however does not go beyond the existing outrigger. An extension table, in my opinion, offers more uses (can be used on other machines with similar coupling) then the extrusion you shared.