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Re: Should rip fence be square to crosscut fence as well as blade? K975
I believe what you are seeing is the difference is toe-out of the slider versus the rip fence. ?When properly aligned the slider angles away from the saw blade as it moves forward, whereas the rip fence angles away to the right of the saw blade. ?This is to ensure that the back of the saw blade does not re-cut the material going past and create chip-out or kick-back. Therefor, if you cut material square using the crosscut fence and sliding table, then push the newly created end of the material against the rip fence, it will have a gap just as you describe.
You can set up your rip fence such then when the fence extrusion is retracted back and away from the saw blade, the toe-out is defeated yielding a rip fence that is truly parallel to the saw blade, or aligned with the end of the just- cut material from the crosscut fence. ?I have fully described how to do this in a document on. ?The link to that document is as follows:
http://tinyurl.com/RipFenceBumpStop
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Feb 13, 2024, at 1:19?PM, James Heathcock via groups.io <james.heathcock@...> wrote:
I have been attempting to use my rip fence on the right hand side of the blade as a bump stop for multiple narrow rip cuts in 8ft mdf sheets, rip fence pulled backwards to avoid any binding. With my stock tight against the long cross cut fence on the slider there is a small but visable gap at the front of the rip fence between stock and fence. In other words the stock will not sit square on both fences. Using the rip fence on its own, perfectly parallel results, using the crosscut fence alone, perfectly square results. Even, as a test, with squared stock, the gap is still there. This redeners the rip fence unusable as a bump stop as it cannot be trusted as an accurate refence. I simply cannot get my head around where adjustments need to made, or is this simply a procedure that cannot be done on a felder sliding table saw? I overcame the problem by using the rip fence as a bump stop anyway, knowing the result would be 'close' but not parralel or accurate then ran each piece again, using just the rip fence, to true them up to desired dimension. It seems a long process. Surely, there is a better way of cutting multiple 200mm strips, accurately from 8ft sheets in one cut using the slider side of the machine? I hope I have explained my issue sufficiently so someone could possibly help me. Thank you.?
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Re: Should rip fence be square to crosscut fence as well as blade? K975
James you just described my first day operating a slider. It's a feature, not a bug! Has also been discussed multitudes if you search the database....basics:
1. Yes, the bump stop is accurate if you use the same index point repeatedly. On our saw, we designate the very front lip edge of the cast iron as the bump stop point and have the analog rulers and DRO calibrated to that same matching point-in-plane on the right side of the blade.
1A. The rip fence should?not need to be pulled backwards to clear the cuts from binding. If you do, you will move front edge of the fence more narrow so the longer your pieces applied to the to bump-stop, the more your length is in error as it will contact the front edge of the rip fence rather than the desired bump stop point - this is explained in #2, below:
2. The saw is set up to have clean cuts left of the blade using the slider, with saw toe-out calibrated for that operation, and also when using rip fence to right of saw. Obviously the two are conflicting references, so the answer is that the rip fence and slider travel end up slightly off-square from each other. Close enough, however,? to fool a beginner user into thinking they should be square to each other when they are not. An exaggerated?conceptualization a saw blade running?vertical, bisecting the letter "V" formed by legs of the sliding carriage and the rip fence , but the bisection is only 0.002-0.003" out of square each side as the toe-out of the blade for each operation?on each side.
3. If you haven't properly calibrated your saw for measures and alignments, this is a step that should never be skipped, and will contribute to erroneous results in addition to #1 and #2. On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 3:19?PM James Heathcock via <james.heathcock= [email protected]> wrote:
I have been attempting to use my rip fence on the right hand side of the blade as a bump stop for multiple narrow rip cuts in 8ft mdf sheets, rip fence pulled backwards to avoid any binding. With my stock tight against the long cross cut fence on the slider there is a small but visable gap at the front of the rip fence between stock and fence. In other words the stock will not sit square on both fences. Using the rip fence on its own, perfectly parallel results, using the crosscut fence alone, perfectly square results. Even, as a test, with squared stock, the gap is still there. This redeners the rip fence unusable as a bump stop as it cannot be trusted as an accurate refence. I simply cannot get my head around where adjustments need to made, or is this simply a procedure that cannot be done on a felder sliding table saw? I overcame the problem by using the rip fence as a bump stop anyway, knowing the result would be 'close' but not parralel or accurate then ran each piece again, using just the rip fence, to true them up to desired dimension. It seems a long process. Surely, there is a better way of cutting multiple 200mm strips, accurately from 8ft sheets in one cut using the slider side of the machine? I hope I have explained my issue sufficiently so someone could possibly help me. Thank you.?
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
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Should rip fence be square to crosscut fence as well as blade? K975
I have been attempting to use my rip fence on the right hand side of the blade as a bump stop for multiple narrow rip cuts in 8ft mdf sheets, rip fence pulled backwards to avoid any binding. With my stock tight against the long cross cut fence on the slider there is a small but visable gap at the front of the rip fence between stock and fence. In other words the stock will not sit square on both fences. Using the rip fence on its own, perfectly parallel results, using the crosscut fence alone, perfectly square results. Even, as a test, with squared stock, the gap is still there. This redeners the rip fence unusable as a bump stop as it cannot be trusted as an accurate refence. I simply cannot get my head around where adjustments need to made, or is this simply a procedure that cannot be done on a felder sliding table saw? I overcame the problem by using the rip fence as a bump stop anyway, knowing the result would be 'close' but not parralel or accurate then ran each piece again, using just the rip fence, to true them up to desired dimension. It seems a long process. Surely, there is a better way of cutting multiple 200mm strips, accurately from 8ft sheets in one cut using the slider side of the machine? I hope I have explained my issue sufficiently so someone could possibly help me. Thank you.?
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Re: Felder K700S (and others) Wenge Zero Clearance Inserts
FYI My inserts are quite large . On my SCMI ?SI 16 TW my whole saw assembly moves 5¡± to left of slider quite handy win ripping away from slider or pre cutting part before end profiling on shaper. Included is a 6 position turret for common positions. mac,,,
 Designing and building for 50 years
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On Feb 11, 2024, at 7:29?AM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Hi Steve,
I assume you are asking for the 45 deg as the blade can be raised for 90 deg kerf. I was cutting a scarf joint on 9¡¯ long walnut boards that were 1¡¯ wide. One piece had to be cut upside down and I was concerned with tearout. I just cut it and it turned out fine.??So I probably won¡¯t not dealt with it until I need it next time.
I assume this is easy when making on CNC unless one is looking for the exact kerf width for zero clearance.
I don¡¯t really need zero clearance, just don¡¯t like small slivers falling below table.
On Feb 11, 2024, at 7:55?AM, Steven B <sb@...> wrote:
?Imran, how did you make the cut for the scoring blade?
Steve
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Designing and building for 50 years
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On Feb 13, 2024, at 8:17?AM, mac campshure <mac512002@...> wrote:
?
Hi Terry,
I used to remove difficult inserts for Ortli tools when they had a branch in middleton.
If I recall I would apply heat with a propane torch to the screw head and when hot apply little slick 50 or lps 1 to screw than remove with quality whip t handle,?
Than use locatite copper when reinserting .
Use torque wrench to install.
Mac
Designing and building for 50 years
On Feb 13, 2024, at 7:07?AM, Terence via groups.io <terencewoolston@...> wrote:
?I have a Format 4, Dual 51 and two Maintenance issues need to be resolved:
1. ?I rotated all the carbide inserts for the second time. ?Three of the inserts are being stubborn...the torx bit simply shears off prior to extraction. ?I thought maybe cheap torx driver was the problem but same with a Snapon. ?I also used an impact driver with same result. ?The inserts were not over-torqued during install. ?I thought about grinding out the insert and applying heat to the torx screw but am open to suggestions.
2. ?I have power drive on the planer. ?During a portion of the travel from say an inch to 5 inches open I get a loud vibration noise. ?I have pulled the access plates and cleaned everything to no avail. ?The sound appears to originate from the two vertical stiles on either side of the planer bed. ?There are a series of adjustment screws and fittings and I suspect that somehow these are out of adjustment. ?I have had the Dual for 10 years and this is a new issue the last few months. ?The Felder documentation has no specifications for the risers.
I have not yet contacted Felder service but thought I would check in with the group expertise first.
Best, Terry
Noble Artisan Woodworks
Hi Terry, I used to remove difficult inserts for Ortli tools when they had a branch in middleton. If I recall I would apply heat with a propane torch to the screw head and when hot apply little slick 50 or lps 1 to screw than remove with quality whip t handle,? Than use locatite copper when reinserting . Use torque wrench to install. Mac
Designing and building for 50 years
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On Feb 13, 2024, at 7:07?AM, Terence via groups.io <terencewoolston@...> wrote:
?I have a Format 4, Dual 51 and two Maintenance issues need to be resolved:
1. ?I rotated all the carbide inserts for the second time. ?Three of the inserts are being stubborn...the torx bit simply shears off prior to extraction. ?I thought maybe cheap torx driver was the problem but same with a Snapon. ?I also used an impact driver with same result. ?The inserts were not over-torqued during install. ?I thought about grinding out the insert and applying heat to the torx screw but am open to suggestions.
2. ?I have power drive on the planer. ?During a portion of the travel from say an inch to 5 inches open I get a loud vibration noise. ?I have pulled the access plates and cleaned everything to no avail. ?The sound appears to originate from the two vertical stiles on either side of the planer bed. ?There are a series of adjustment screws and fittings and I suspect that somehow these are out of adjustment. ?I have had the Dual for 10 years and this is a new issue the last few months. ?The Felder documentation has no specifications for the risers.
I have not yet contacted Felder service but thought I would check in with the group expertise first.
Best, Terry
Noble Artisan Woodworks
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Same. but for the jointer/planer. No response.?
Let me know if you find contact information for him.?
Hi Steve,?
I sent an email last night on CL and I never heard back from him. I am interested in the saw. Is there a way I can get in touch with your?friend directly? Thank you.?
Jim
On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 3:21?PM Steven B < sb@...> wrote: Posting on behalf of a friend:
The springs on the AD951 need to be tightened a bit as it's harder than it should be to flip open. Otherwise in good working order.
Steve
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I have a Format 4, Dual 51 and two Maintenance issues need to be resolved:
1. ?I rotated all the carbide inserts for the second time. ?Three of the inserts are being stubborn...the torx bit simply shears off prior to extraction. ?I thought maybe cheap torx driver was the problem but same with a Snapon. ?I also used an impact driver with same result. ?The inserts were not over-torqued during install. ?I thought about grinding out the insert and applying heat to the torx screw but am open to suggestions.
2. ?I have power drive on the planer. ?During a portion of the travel from say an inch to 5 inches open I get a loud vibration noise. ?I have pulled the access plates and cleaned everything to no avail. ?The sound appears to originate from the two vertical stiles on either side of the planer bed. ?There are a series of adjustment screws and fittings and I suspect that somehow these are out of adjustment. ?I have had the Dual for 10 years and this is a new issue the last few months. ?The Felder documentation has no specifications for the risers.
I have not yet contacted Felder service but thought I would check in with the group expertise first.
Best, Terry
Noble Artisan Woodworks
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Hello Everyone,
I thought?I would circle back and just let everyone know that?I did fix this issue. I spoke to a gentleman at Felder who was tremendously?helpful. Turns out it was a combo of things: Cast iron top for table saw needed to be moved forward (Dead blow hammer and a block of wood after loosening the leveling bolts), and the pin of the hinge joint on the outfeed table of the jointer needed some coaxing (wedge, hammer again). It could have also been that the two machines (which are bolted together) were out of alignment but that was not the case. My fence now slides smoothly from one end to the other on my CF 741 S Professional. Thank you again for everyone who contributed.?
Regards,
Peter T.?
On Sat, Dec 2, 2023 at 3:36?PM mac campshure via <mac512002= [email protected]> wrote: ?P? First the cutter head needs to be 8/10 of mm below the table so this establishes ?the hight of the table in relation to saw table. The tops don¡¯t have to be perfect say within 15/1000¡± You should be able to than loosen the table to the table adjustment brackets and move on out feed ?jointer table back to align with saw table. Mac,,
Designing and building for 50 years On Dec 2, 2023, at 5:16?PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
?What vintage machine is this? They changed table elevation and positioning mechanisms over the years. The hinge points of the outfeed table will need to be loosened and shove the table back to line up with the front edge of the F channel of the saw table. You also need to know if the outfeed table is at the right height to the saw table. Older machines with parallelogram linkages can shift the table forward and back quite a lot as the table goes up and down. The newer machines are on ways and the outfeed doesn¡¯t travel much back and forth as it goes up and down.
Pictures of the jointer side of the machine will help figure this out.
Hello,
Everyone I posted about this a while ago but still no success. I have a CF 741 where the fence will not slide between the table saw and the jointer. Felder tech thought it was the two machines, j/p and table saw had slipped during transport. However, the bolts that hold the machines together and the holes in the metal frames do not allow for almost any lateral movement. And certainly?not the gap I am experiencing. No amount?of moving the outfeed table on the jointer up or down would make up this gap either. Does the outfeed table have the ability to be pulled backwards to fix this issue? If yes, what should the gap be between infeed and outfeed tables? This has me pulling my hair out and cannot figure out what?to do. Any help?would be appreciated! Attached are the pictures showing the issue.?
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Ryan, PM me if you¡¯re still having calibration issues and want help.
Regards, Rod
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Hi Steve,?
I sent an email last night on CL and I never heard back from him. I am interested in the saw. Is there a way I can get in touch with your?friend directly? Thank you.?
Jim
On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 3:21?PM Steven B < sb@...> wrote: Posting on behalf of a friend:
The springs on the AD951 need to be tightened a bit as it's harder than it should be to flip open. Otherwise in good working order.
Steve
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Posting on behalf of a friend:
The springs on the AD951 need to be tightened a bit as it's harder than it should be to flip open. Otherwise in good working order.
Steve
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Re: Help needed with shaper setup
David,
interesting stuff..
1- It¡¯s not clear to me why the rails or stiles might be too narrow for my standard-sized feeder wheels. Could you please explain that?
It depends on the height of your back-fence. ?If you make a back fence from plywood that is thinner than the material you are feeding, you won¡¯t need narrow tires. ? Watch these two videos that clarify my comment based on use of the Aigner Thickness Stop as a back fence: ?
2 - I didn¡¯t know that narrow wheels were an option for my power feeder.. I have a kitchen build coming up soon, and I suspect that once I read the answer to #1, I¡¯m going to want to get a set, so¡
3 - where can I buy a set of narrow wheels?
Call Western Roller - tell them what feeder you have and they can recommend narrow wheels for it. ?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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Re: Help needed with shaper setup
Here is a drawing I use in the Alpine courses to explain the split fence and faults.
Outside fence is usually better for cabinet parts if workpieces are short. But do not use an outside fence without a feeder. With no feeder split fence is better.
Changing out wheels to narrow is not necessary unless your outside fence is same height or higher than the workpiece. I use thin fences when doing this just to avoid the hassle of changing wheels.
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Re: Help needed with shaper setup
David,
interesting stuff..
1- It¡¯s not clear to me why the rails or stiles might be too narrow for my standard-sized feeder wheels. Could you please explain that?
2 - I didn¡¯t know that narrow wheels were an option for my power feeder.. I have a kitchen build coming up soon, and I suspect that once I read the answer to #1, I¡¯m going to want to get a set, so¡
3 - where can I buy a set of narrow wheels?
Thanks!
Gerry Kmack
KmackStudios.com
Pagosa Springs CO
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Re: Help needed with shaper setup
Hi David:
?
Wow, I was not aware of Steve Rowe¡¯s video on making a back-fence. Really clearly outlines the principles and I¡¯m already sharing this video with friends who wish they had bought the Thickness Stop when it
was available. Thanks for sharing the link.
?
(And well done Steve!)
?
?
?
It appears that I'll have to do different setups for copes and then change everything and set back up for the profiles. That's hardly convenient. Am I missing something?
Pictures: the joint is now flat, but the tenon is still ever so slightly short. I might need to back the fence up slightly.?
Without using a back fence (which I don't have), I'm concerned about changing the width of my stock. Also, it looks like I should get the 240V supply hooked up so I can use this F38 power feeder. I really wish it was 120V.
?
You should be able to offset your outfeed fence to properly support the more-narrow profiled section coming off the cutter. ?By staggering the fence offsets you can ensure the full profile is cut and still
get the support of the material against the fence on both sides of the cutter. ?Of course you¡¯ll have to take this into consideration during stock prep by making the material slightly wider to accommodate. ?I always leave the styles slightly over-width and
then trim the outside edge of the door to fit after glue-up, rather than trying to build it to 0.5mm tolerances. ?I also leave the styles over-length and trim top and bottom of the door after glue-up. ?If the widths of the door styles and rails vary by a mm
or two, you¡¯re not likely to see that on something like a kitchen cab or vanity. ?But that¡¯s just me - lots of ways to skin this cat. ?If you want to dialog about workflows, DM me - I have a number of videos that go into this topic.
Personally, I would not run the inside profile without a power feeder - too dangerous. ?You may also discover that the standard feeder wheels are too wide to run cabinet door styles and rails. ?For this application
I use narrow wheels on the feeder. ?
You can easily make your own back-fence from a sheet of plywood secured to the locked sliding table. ?Fellow FOG member Steve Rowe has a nice video about this you can see here: ?.
Note that you can also secure the back-fence to the sliding table T-slots using a couple bolts into T-nuts below. ?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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Re: Help needed with shaper setup
It appears that I'll have to do different setups for copes and then change everything and set back up for the profiles. That's hardly convenient. Am I missing something?
Pictures: the joint is now flat, but the tenon is still ever so slightly short. I might need to back the fence up slightly.?
Without using a back fence (which I don't have), I'm concerned about changing the width of my stock. Also, it looks like I should get the 240V supply hooked up so I can use this F38 power feeder. I really wish it was 120V.
You should be able to offset your outfeed fence to properly support the more-narrow profiled section coming off the cutter. ?By staggering the fence offsets you can ensure the full profile is cut and still get the support of the material against the fence on both sides of the cutter. ?Of course you¡¯ll have to take this into consideration during stock prep by making the material slightly wider to accommodate. ?I always leave the styles slightly over-width and then trim the outside edge of the door to fit after glue-up, rather than trying to build it to 0.5mm tolerances. ?I also leave the styles over-length and trim top and bottom of the door after glue-up. ?If the widths of the door styles and rails vary by a mm or two, you¡¯re not likely to see that on something like a kitchen cab or vanity. ?But that¡¯s just me - lots of ways to skin this cat. ?If you want to dialog about workflows, DM me - I have a number of videos that go into this topic. ? Personally, I would not run the inside profile without a power feeder - too dangerous. ?You may also discover that the standard feeder wheels are too wide to run cabinet door styles and rails. ?For this application I use narrow wheels on the feeder. ?
You can easily make your own back-fence from a sheet of plywood secured to the locked sliding table. ?Fellow FOG member Steve Rowe has a nice video about this you can see here: ?. Note that you can also secure the back-fence to the sliding table T-slots using a couple bolts into T-nuts below. ?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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Re: Sheet good recommendations
Hi Bob:
?
I am not strictly familiar with ¡°light marine plywood¡± from BGB but if it is reasonably priced (sub-$100 AUD) then I¡¯m assuming it is light-weight pine which is nowhere near as sturdy as the hardwood marine
plywood variety that runs to several hundred AUD per sheet. If the numbers work out, I¡¯d consider laminating (glue, screw) sheets together, or else you¡¯ll need to think about a hardwood stiffener for shelves. Horses for courses ¡
?
Dr David Luckensmeyer
?
Great discussion.... at risk of a slight hi-jacking of the thread, how do you think the light marine plywood from BGB would work for shop shelving? I'm about to embark on some storage upgrades.
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On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 2:47?PM David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...>
wrote:
Hi Murray:
?
Sorry to drop the ball on this discussion. Thanks a lot for sharing your local knowledge on Sharp Panels and BGB. Darren Oates has a proven track
record to producing commercial quantities of shop sawn materials. I have a lot of respect for him!
?
Regarding ¡°making your own¡±, that¡¯s exactly what I do when I have a high-end project that needs a certain look, or I¡¯m using a very special piece
of timber. The case of this chest of drawers was solid Australian blackwood, but the client wanted master grade fiddleback Australian blackwood for the fronts. So I resawed a 50mm board into 4mm veneers and then made my own laminated drawer fronts by resawing
lots of ¡°ordinary¡± blackwood, mixing up the grain, and then gluing together a 25mm drawer front consisting of many layers of blackwood with the special fronts. This allowed maximum quality and control on a stable drawer front in ¡°solid wood¡± but with the special
show faces.
?
Anyway, I hope your day is turning out great!
Lucky
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Warm regards,
Lucky
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?
Lucky, thanks for the response. Regarding the Wood Review article I was just suggesting a standard magazine article. I know they have plenty of good topics, but the subject of built-in
and library construction struck me is being really interesting and I don¡¯t believe they have done anything on this in the past.
Regarding plywood supplies, I¡¯ve just checked and it seems that Sharp Plywood have been reincarnated as Sharp Panels. I think they do custom veneer of plywood and they would be worth
a look. Also, there is a guy called Steve at Nerang with a company called BGB plywood . he sells relatively inexpensive ¡°marine¡± plywood. I bought a bundle of a couple of years ago for non-critical work such as planter boxes, a pool pump cover and a tool cabinet
I¡¯m planning on building. There are some pluses and minuses with this plywood. On the downside, although it is called Marine plywood I would never have it anywhere near a boat. it has a gaboon veneer on the outside. Many of the sheets that I bought, had a
defect, consisting of faint, dark lines, running perpendicular to the grain. I was planning on, finishing many of them with a solid acrylic, so this didn¡¯t concern me, and I thought that just a few passes with the sandpaper would remove them. With every sheet
of marine plywood I have ever used in the past the outer layer is not a wafer thin veneer, but an actual ply of reasonable thickness. With the BGB plywood, it is thin veneer, which you can sand straight through very easily.
On the plus side however, it seems to have very good thickness consistency and a very fair flat surface. Judging by the end grain, it doesn¡¯t have too many voids. It¡¯s a couple of
years since I bought the bundle I have, it¡¯s been stored in a carport, partially exposed, and is showing no signs of any delamination warping, etc.
I had a significant victory recently with my first attempt at shop sawing wide veneers(thanks to Darren Oates). I am now planning on doing my own veneers for the aforementioned tool
cabinet, and I think BGB plywood should be okay for this purpose. if you have some non-critical tasks coming up, it¡¯s probably worth buying a couple of sheets and doing your own assessment.
Murray
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Re: Help needed with shaper setup
As usual, I greatly appreciate the input of this group. Yes, David, the spindle was tilted. Not sure how that happened as I never adjust that, but it was off vertical. I swept it anyway and got even front, right, and back but 0.06mm high on the out feed side. That's weird, but probably within tolerance.? Joe, this is the Amana SC542 cutter set. It cuts a full profile, including the tenon. I had adjusted the fence for the profile cut but had not checked the cope. It was indeed about 3mm short. So, moving the fence back to get a full tenon on the cope cut now yields a terrible snipe on the profile cut. So much for the idea that these cutters are a matched set that can be used in a stacked arrangement.? It appears that I'll have to do different setups for copes and then change everything and set back up for the profiles. That's hardly convenient. Am I missing something? Pictures: the joint is now flat, but the tenon is still ever so slightly short. I might need to back the fence up slightly.? Without using a back fence (which I don't have), I'm concerned about changing the width of my stock. Also, it looks like I should get the 240V supply hooked up so I can use this F38 power feeder. I really wish it was 120V.  
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Re: Help needed with shaper setup
Couple questions - are you removing the whole edge on both the cope cut and the profiling cut?
It looks like from the pictures your tongue is way short. Hard to see in the picture.
Does the cope cutter cut the end of the tongue? Set like that can be a little tricky to set.
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David P. Best
Brian Turner
rodsheridan
Jim Synyard
Gerry Kmack
David Luckensmeyer