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Re: Failed engine brake 220v single phase C3-31

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Happy to help. That is the purpose of this group. On mystery diode, I could not tell for sure if there was one on the top side of your board since that part was in shade in the picture - kind of looked like something was there.

Good luck with repair of the board.

Imran Malik

On Jul 27, 2023, at 9:35 AM, ibsenafshar <brian@...> wrote:

?Imran, you are really saving me today. I have almost that exact schematic but it is dated exactly 1 year older, 25.3.98, and was clearly drawn by someone else in a completely different style. About the only difference is the 'without brake' dashed line to ground.
FelderHQ Austria is not responding to my email so I will remove the board and take it to the repair shop today.

Finally I believe the mystery diode is located on the top of your board.

<Imran board2.jpg>
Re: Miter gauge concept, Brian Lamb inspired.

 

Your miter gauge looks great. Would you consider posting the CAD files to the files area so that others could make one too?

Jeff
Re: Failed engine brake 220v single phase C3-31

 

Imran, you are really saving me today. I have almost that exact schematic but it is dated exactly 1 year older, 25.3.98, and was clearly drawn by someone else in a completely different style. About the only difference is the 'without brake' dashed line to ground.
FelderHQ Austria is not responding to my email so I will remove the board and take it to the repair shop today.

Finally I believe the mystery diode is located on the top of your board.
Re: Failed engine brake 220v single phase C3-31

 

Hi Rodger,
that diode is very small, too small for that. The diode you refer to may be the big one with what looks to be a 1/4-20 nut on the back of it. Silver colored on a heat sink.
Re: Failed engine brake 220v single phase C3-31

Roger S
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Isn¡¯t the diode there to provide the DC for braking ?

On 27 Jul 2023, at 04:40, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:

Hi Brian,

Here is the schematic of my KF700 showing that A2 of K1 needs connection to ground when the brake board is removed.


Imran Malik

On Jul 26, 2023, at 3:51 PM, Imran Malik <imranindiana@...> wrote:

?
Hi Brian,

For my machine a single ground wire needs added to bypass the brake board. That is, if the brake board is removed this wire needs to be added to run my machine.

Check your schematic it should show a dotted line with verbiage of Ohne Bremse or something Bremse.

As for repairing, it is easy to detect when a part is cracked open although no guarantees that something else that visually looks okay isn¡¯t bad.

I can take a pic of the new board installed in the KF it is still about 20 Yrs old because brake board failed rather early in the life of the machine. I remember it being identical.

I am still curious about the diode on the back side of your board. Are you the original owner? You can also compare your board to mine to see if a diode is missing from topside and it was easier to place it on the bottom due to tall components each side.

I did do a quick check and the vias used to solder the diode on the back side do not have a diode on the top side on my board. However, it might still be connected between the same electrical nodes as one on the top side.

Imran Malik

On Jul 26, 2023, at 2:13 PM, ibsenafshar <brian@...> wrote:

?Imran, you are being incredibly helpful. My part number is exactly the same.
There is a repair shop I use to repair large (40 amp) electronic dimming modules that fail at about 20 years due to capacitors aging out. Drawback is they take a long time to get to it. Do you think the saw will run if I remove the board to have it repaired? Or is there an easy way to jump around it?
I've sent this info to FelderHQ in Austria.



<STICKER.jpg>
<My KF Electrical Schematic.pdf>
Re: Failed engine brake 220v single phase C3-31

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi Brian,

Here is the schematic of my KF700 showing that A2 of K1 needs connection to ground when the brake board is removed.


Imran Malik

On Jul 26, 2023, at 3:51 PM, Imran Malik <imranindiana@...> wrote:

?
Hi Brian,

For my machine a single ground wire needs added to bypass the brake board. That is, if the brake board is removed this wire needs to be added to run my machine.

Check your schematic it should show a dotted line with verbiage of Ohne Bremse or something Bremse.

As for repairing, it is easy to detect when a part is cracked open although no guarantees that something else that visually looks okay isn¡¯t bad.

I can take a pic of the new board installed in the KF it is still about 20 Yrs old because brake board failed rather early in the life of the machine. I remember it being identical.

I am still curious about the diode on the back side of your board. Are you the original owner? You can also compare your board to mine to see if a diode is missing from topside and it was easier to place it on the bottom due to tall components each side.

I did do a quick check and the vias used to solder the diode on the back side do not have a diode on the top side on my board. However, it might still be connected between the same electrical nodes as one on the top side.

Imran Malik

On Jul 26, 2023, at 2:13 PM, ibsenafshar <brian@...> wrote:

?Imran, you are being incredibly helpful. My part number is exactly the same.
There is a repair shop I use to repair large (40 amp) electronic dimming modules that fail at about 20 years due to capacitors aging out. Drawback is they take a long time to get to it. Do you think the saw will run if I remove the board to have it repaired? Or is there an easy way to jump around it?
I've sent this info to FelderHQ in Austria.



<STICKER.jpg>

My KF Electrical Schematic.pdf
My KF Electrical Schematic.pdf

Felder Format 1352 WBS

 

Anybody have a WAG on the cost of one of these?
Thanks,
Dave Davies
Re: K 700 S electrical question

 

Hi Craig, does the saw have Wye/Delta start? ( also known as Star/Delta)

Most saws that size have that feature?

If so, it¡¯s easier to start than standard across the line starting.

Make sure that your saw has the electronics and control supply fed from the 2 non manufactured lines¡­..Regards, Rod
Re: K 700 S electrical question

 

Purely anecdotal, but I'd have no concerns with that rotary converter and that saw combination. The saw doesn't have a heavy startup current like, say, a water pump, so startup overamping should be nothing special. Any electrical?device is designed to withstand some intermittent?overamping beyond nameplate. I have used a 10hp American Rotary on an industrial lathe that runs a heavier startup mass compared to a saw blade with sheaves/chucks/stock, and never experiences problems. If you had a smaller rotary converter like a 5hp, I'd bet it would still be okay, but you might find your limits cutting heavy stock sooner. Fortunately with a saw you can make sure your blades are sharp, and you can slow feed rates, and manage amp loads. That said, I'm pretty sure my 700 saw has a 4.0kW?motor, never felt it was lacking in normal use. I wouldn't know what I was missing if my saw had a bigger motor.

Happy hunting for a good machine!

On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 2:07?PM Patrick Kane <pwk5017@...> wrote:
Hey Craig,

Felder should be able to provide the specs for that motor(specifically FLA), and you can shoot that spec to American Rotary for them to confirm. Or, you can do your own homework if you want a faster response. I assume you can find the output spec for your converter pretty easily. I suspect you will be fine, because it takes an unusual operation to max out a 5.5kw motor on a saw. I have maxed out the capacity of the 700 before crosscutting a very thick end grain island, but it's not often you are sawing through 5" of material.?

That seems like a fairly good deal on the used saw. For how lousy the last few years have been for used machine buyers, it appears that things are coming back down to reality. Good luck with the upgrade

Patrick

On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 2:53?PM <cmzimm@...> wrote:
First, I want to say how much I've learned from this group. Thanks for all the informative posts!

I've been lurking in the background reading old and current topics since I looked at my first used Felder sliding table saw a few months ago (didn't buy it...).? I've come across the following used K 700 S () and I'm trying to confirm if my current electrical set up (10 HP American Rotary Convert) will work with the saws 5.5 kW (7.3 HP) motor.? I know the rule of thumb is the RPC should be twice the 3-phase motor?but I also see comments that 75% of the RPC works as long as there's not a heavy starting current.??

Can anyone confirm that my situation as described will work?? If not, I'll keep looking for the right saw.

Thanks again.
Craig Z.



--
Brett Wissel
Saint Louis Restoration
1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd)
St Louis, MO 63110

314.772.2167
brett@...
Re: Rangate 300 Lift Cart

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I love and use many euro horses in my shop. But my ¡°stiff back¡± hurts these days! ?

Warm regards,
Lucky

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of mac campshure via groups.io <mac512002@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2023 3:53:48 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Rangate 300 Lift Cart
?
What about saw horses and stiff backs?

martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-332-2330?cell

Designing and building for 50 years


On Jul 26, 2023, at 10:35 AM, Dan Gavrilyuk <dgwoodco@...> wrote:

?
Hey Ed I¡¯m in western Ma, not too far away. I¡¯ll send you a pm?

On Jul 26, 2023, at 10:25 AM, Ed Mazuronis via groups.io <egmiii@...> wrote:

?Dan, where are you located? My Rangate 300 came in on Monday if you wanted to check it out. I¡¯m in central CT. It¡¯s a nice cart and will fit my needs well. It¡¯s very high quality, but I¡¯d strongly encourage you to evaluate the alternatives suggested here first. If they fit your needs, then you will be getting a lot more bang for your buck.

Re: Phase Perfect Order

 

Also I found this PDF instruction for installing toroids on the PTE models which seems to go along with the claim that modern PTEs have them.
--

Larry Long Neck
Just a noob trying to learn the ways of wood
Re: Phase Perfect Order

 

Hi Ed,

The sales rep's contact info is
?Daniel Pascoe
Inside/Outside Sales
Phone: 605.343.7934 Ext 182
Mobile: 605-877-6200
Personal: 925-459-4359
danielp@...
Our email exchange went as follows:

Sale rep:
Good morning. I see you are curious about our phase converters and how we are going away from that 2nd inductor for ¡°quieting down,¡± of the units. The toroid design is going to eventually be across all of them.
Me:
Hi Daniel,
I will likely need a 15 HP 240v single -> 3 phase converter in a few months. It looks like currently only the PTE line has a 15HP 240v model. Does this model already have the newer toroidal design that reduces noise?

Sales rep:
The PTE¡¯s have toroids, yes they are much quieter.

--

Larry Long Neck
Just a noob trying to learn the ways of wood
Re: Phase Perfect Order

 

Thanks Larry. Do you happen to remember the name of the sales rep you talked to?
Re: Phase Perfect Order

 

I talked to a phase perfect rep today and got some more info related to the quiet models.

He confirmed that all of the "quiet mode" add-ons and current design of the bigger phase perfect models are being replaced with the new toroid design.

What I found interesting though was that he said the current PTE models already have the new toroid design and are much quieter.

He didn't say whenever this change got implemented to the enterprise models, so I don't have a good frame of reference to ask about opinions from folks who bought them in recent years. But apparently if you buy enterprise today, you will get what they consider to be their new quiet technology.
--

Larry Long Neck
Just a noob trying to learn the ways of wood
Re: Failed engine brake 220v single phase C3-31

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi Brian,

For my machine a single ground wire needs added to bypass the brake board. That is, if the brake board is removed this wire needs to be added to run my machine.

Check your schematic it should show a dotted line with verbiage of Ohne Bremse or something Bremse.

As for repairing, it is easy to detect when a part is cracked open although no guarantees that something else that visually looks okay isn¡¯t bad.

I can take a pic of the new board installed in the KF it is still about 20 Yrs old because brake board failed rather early in the life of the machine. I remember it being identical.

I am still curious about the diode on the back side of your board. Are you the original owner? You can also compare your board to mine to see if a diode is missing from topside and it was easier to place it on the bottom due to tall components each side.

I did do a quick check and the vias used to solder the diode on the back side do not have a diode on the top side on my board. However, it might still be connected between the same electrical nodes as one on the top side.

Imran Malik

On Jul 26, 2023, at 2:13 PM, ibsenafshar <brian@...> wrote:

?Imran, you are being incredibly helpful. My part number is exactly the same.
There is a repair shop I use to repair large (40 amp) electronic dimming modules that fail at about 20 years due to capacitors aging out. Drawback is they take a long time to get to it. Do you think the saw will run if I remove the board to have it repaired? Or is there an easy way to jump around it?
I've sent this info to FelderHQ in Austria.



<STICKER.jpg>
Re: K 700 S electrical question

 

Hey Craig,

Felder should be able to provide the specs for that motor(specifically FLA), and you can shoot that spec to American Rotary for them to confirm. Or, you can do your own homework if you want a faster response. I assume you can find the output spec for your converter pretty easily. I suspect you will be fine, because it takes an unusual operation to max out a 5.5kw motor on a saw. I have maxed out the capacity of the 700 before crosscutting a very thick end grain island, but it's not often you are sawing through 5" of material.?

That seems like a fairly good deal on the used saw. For how lousy the last few years have been for used machine buyers, it appears that things are coming back down to reality. Good luck with the upgrade

Patrick

On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 2:53?PM <cmzimm@...> wrote:
First, I want to say how much I've learned from this group. Thanks for all the informative posts!

I've been lurking in the background reading old and current topics since I looked at my first used Felder sliding table saw a few months ago (didn't buy it...).? I've come across the following used K 700 S () and I'm trying to confirm if my current electrical set up (10 HP American Rotary Convert) will work with the saws 5.5 kW (7.3 HP) motor.? I know the rule of thumb is the RPC should be twice the 3-phase motor?but I also see comments that 75% of the RPC works as long as there's not a heavy starting current.??

Can anyone confirm that my situation as described will work?? If not, I'll keep looking for the right saw.

Thanks again.
Craig Z.

K 700 S electrical question

 

First, I want to say how much I've learned from this group. Thanks for all the informative posts!

I've been lurking in the background reading old and current topics since I looked at my first used Felder sliding table saw a few months ago (didn't buy it...).? I've come across the following used K 700 S () and I'm trying to confirm if my current electrical set up (10 HP American Rotary Convert) will work with the saws 5.5 kW (7.3 HP) motor.? I know the rule of thumb is the RPC should be twice the 3-phase motor?but I also see comments that 75% of the RPC works as long as there's not a heavy starting current.??

Can anyone confirm that my situation as described will work?? If not, I'll keep looking for the right saw.

Thanks again.
Craig Z.
Re: Failed engine brake 220v single phase C3-31

 

Irman,
do you by chance have a photo of the new board you got from Felder? If it's no go with Felder I might have to track it down from somewhere else. I spoke to the manufacturer of the old board and they we very responsive but couldn't help.
Re: Failed engine brake 220v single phase C3-31

 

Imran, you are being incredibly helpful. My part number is exactly the same.
There is a repair shop I use to repair large (40 amp) electronic dimming modules that fail at about 20 years due to capacitors aging out. Drawback is they take a long time to get to it. Do you think the saw will run if I remove the board to have it repaired? Or is there an easy way to jump around it?
I've sent this info to FelderHQ in Austria.
Re: Rangate 300 Lift Cart

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

What about saw horses and stiff backs?

martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-332-2330?cell

Designing and building for 50 years


On Jul 26, 2023, at 10:35 AM, Dan Gavrilyuk <dgwoodco@...> wrote:

?
Hey Ed I¡¯m in western Ma, not too far away. I¡¯ll send you a pm?

On Jul 26, 2023, at 10:25 AM, Ed Mazuronis via groups.io <egmiii@...> wrote:

?Dan, where are you located? My Rangate 300 came in on Monday if you wanted to check it out. I¡¯m in central CT. It¡¯s a nice cart and will fit my needs well. It¡¯s very high quality, but I¡¯d strongly encourage you to evaluate the alternatives suggested here first. If they fit your needs, then you will be getting a lot more bang for your buck.

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