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Re: Rangate 300 Lift Cart
Dan, I think you misread my recommendation. ?What I said was "But I also recommend you take the time to actually look over your next choice in person rather than rely on brand name or even user recommendations that are alway fraught with confirmation bias. ?You might find that the Felder FAT 500 doesn¡¯t fit your needs, while the Rangate 300 ¡°large¡± does."
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Jul 25, 2023, at 5:17 AM, Dan Gavrilyuk <dgwoodco@...> wrote:
Appreciate the write up David. Yes I too would be in line if you built the ultimate lift bench! I¡¯m not looking for a very traditional bench but something that has a high-low lift range so a scissor lift design is best suited for the application. It will mainly be used as a sanding and cabinet assembly workbench. Assembling large cabinets can be a pain at standard heights off the ground and I prefer not crawling around.? You mentioned I may be happier with the Barth xl vs fat 500s bench. What is the reasoning for that??
And Lucky my shop floor is anything but perfect! I have 2¡± variation in some areas but strategically chose the flattest spot for my workbench area.? On Jul 22, 2023, at 1:58 AM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
? As usual, I feel compelled to comment, largely from the perspective of ¡°let¡¯s cut through the gloss and get to the heartwood of the matter.¡± ?So here goes.
Dan appears to me to be on the right focus if this cart is to be used as a ¡°bench¡± in the woodworking environment. ?I have a couple of different scissors-lift carts in my shop, but the only one I consider stout enough to suffer the rigors of adapting wood into specific structures (hand planing, cutting dovetail joints, etc.) or to act as a reference surface for joining elements at right angles is my Barth 500V. ?The other scissor-lift carts I have would fail miserably at that, but as something that¡¯s ¡°affordable¡± to elevate material or heavy tooling (metal working vise, rotary table) they do just fine, and as something with wheels to stack dimensioned lumber on, they do pretty well at that also. ?So they have a place in my shop, but not as a replacement for something like shown below:
I¡¯ve looked closely at the Felder FAT series with a skeptical eye, and while they are decidedly NOT as robust as a bench than my Barth 500, they are clearly built to a higher level of rigidity and flatness than the Jet cart Dan bought from HD. ?But again, as a true substitute for a ¡°woodworkers bench¡± I wouldn¡¯t want the Felder FAT carts either. ?My Barth 500 just meets, but does not exceed my own expectations of a mobile bench. ?Now, is the Barth worth 5X the Jet? ?Depends on what you¡¯re trying to use it for. ?
The question then becomes ¡°does the Felder FAT or Rangate alternative¡± fill the gap in between? ?I have my doubts and would suggest Dan actually look over the FAT alternative with first hand experience before plunging in on the basis of ¡°it¡¯s Felder, it has to be good - right?¡±.
I still view all of the European-type variants (Barth, Rangate, Felder FAT, etc.) as vastly over priced relative to what they should cost. ?And I still wish there were a suitable USA manufacturer who would enter this field (liker ShopCarts perhaps, or Lista/Vidmar come to mind) who would build a mobile scissors-lift cart that is of sufficient build quality to serve as a woodworker bench. ?After several discussions with Greg at Rangate, I had hopes that they would come up with something to ¡°fill the gap¡±. ?And while the Rangate 300 ¡°Large¡± cart is clearly more robust and rigid than the Felder equivalent, and potentially suitable as a ¡°woodworker bench¡±, it¡¯s been priced relative to the competitive offering from Barth rather than from the perspective of ¡°cost plus x-percent margin¡± which I had hoped for.?
So, Dan, my recommendation that if you¡¯re looking for a bench substitute in combination with lift-and-slide features, you return that Jet. ? But I also recommend you take the time to actually look over your next choice in person rather than rely on brand name or even user recommendations that are alway fraught with confirmation bias. ?You might find that the Felder FAT 500 doesn¡¯t fit your needs, while the Rangate 300 ¡°large¡± does.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Jul 21, 2023, at 10:13 PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
Hi Dan:
Oh, that does not sound good at all. That¡¯s unfortunate as the cart looks pretty solid from the photos. Like you I¡¯d probably put up with a fair bit of ¡°trouble¡± for the cost savings, but if it¡¯s not rigid, then it¡¯s hard to see it working well
when rolled from place to place. Unless your shop floor is perfect! Mine is definitely considerably less than!?
Let us know how you go as we are all looking for good adjustable carts at reasonable prices.?
Warm regards,
Lucky?
Dr David Luckensmeyer
Thanks for your input Lucky. Yes if I were to keep the cart or any of this style I would ditch the handle and mount the trigger release to the underside of my top. This cart is about 1/4 of the price of the 500s or $1100 retail vs $4k plus in
USD.?
My problem with this cart is it seems to be too flexible and will not be a stable enough platform for the type of torsion box top I want. It flexes relatively easily to lateral forces and the upper rollers are mounted loosely where you can twist
the top with ease. ?My suspicion that even a fabricated wood or torsion top will not do much to help in this area. I suppose I can throw my existing torsion top on this and see how it performs.?
On Jul 21, 2023, at 9:18 PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
?
Hi Dan:
I think that¡¯s a good looking purchase. I¡¯m assuming it is significantly less expensive than the FAT alternative? I don¡¯t know why the FATs (and similar) are so expensive. They are not particularly heavily built and the hydraulics are commonly
available.?
I have two FAT 300s. I¡¯m happy with them. But neither were good enough to yield a flat working surface. I made a 30mm timber top for one (shimmed for flat) and a full torsion box style top for the other. As Brian said, make a top and shim it
for full, flat support.?
I assume you¡¯ll ditch the handle? If the hand grip is used to lower the cart, I¡¯d just mount it under the new top so it is out of the way. I do like having braking on all four corners. But casters are cheap so you can replace them if need be.?
Unless there¡¯s something seriously wrong with the cart mechanism, or size, or something that cannot be changed, I¡¯d advocate for keeping it, making a flat top for it, and getting it into use!
Warm regards,
Lucky
Dr David Luckensmeyer
I¡¯m not sure any welded up steel top cart like that is ever going to be ¡°flat¡± enough for what you are wanting. You can mount a another top on it and shim it at the mounting points to get it as flat as you want.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
On Jul 21, 2023, at 2:01 PM, Dan Gavrilyuk <dgwoodco@...> wrote:
Recent discussions prompted me to seriously consider upgrading my current fixed height workbench with a lift table. I ordered a Jet SLT-1100 lift table from Home Depot, this one comes with a 31.5x63 surface. This size and weight is roughly equivalent
to the fat 500s table. I had high hopes but those turned out to be a disappointment, the cart is not a viable option for any accurate (flat, no twist) workbench use. ?Attached are pics showing a severe twist in the top and about a 3/16 cup in the middle. The
bow was likely formed from warping at the welding stage and overall insufficient support. Any thoughts or ideas on how to fix this to create a flat and cools at work surface for a torsion box style top? I think it may not be worth the effort and just send
it back and cough up the money for a 500s.?
I will say the packaging was pretty secure, it came in a fully boxes plywood crate. That¡¯s more than a 20k felder saw with 2x4s and plastic wrap.?
<image0.jpeg><image1.jpeg><image2.jpeg><image3.jpeg><image4.jpeg>
On Jul 14, 2023, at 5:36 PM, Larry Long Neck <longneckwood@...> wrote:
?I noticed at the bottom of Felder's promo email for AWFS that they have a raffle for a "lift table" at the end of the month if you visit their booth. I assume this means a FAT 300, if anyone is going and wants one :)
--
Larry Long Neck
Just a noob trying to learn the ways of wood
|
Re: Rangate 300 Lift Cart
Rob I do like this design very much. This is ultimately what I¡¯m trying to achieve with a single large lift cart or table and a paulk style top with storage for my most used hand tools.?
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On Jul 22, 2023, at 11:15 AM, Rob Pritchard <bobbydazzler2248@...> wrote:
?I wanted a Barth 500v but couldn't cough-up the money/find one, so I built a substitute from 2 second-hand Southworth electric/hydraulic lift carts that needed servicing and a Polk-style 8'x4' torsion box with UJK Parf holes. (My experiment using a HF bike lift with the Polk-style top was a failure). It does have it's drawbacks but it met my own requirements and I use it regularly as a sheet goods breakdown/assembly/workbench table. It has enough mass not to move when the stand/brakes are engaged when planing etc., and I can shove it out of the way when necessary. The carts do rise and lower independently of each other and this has pros and cons.? FWIW, I also bought the Felder 300 with extendible top, primarily as a more mobile work cart/infeed-outfeed/assembly table. I gave up trying to find one solution that did it all. I don't want to go off topic from the OP so if anyone is interested, I can supply more information off this thread. Cheers, Rob P. <IMG_0852.JPEG> <IMG_0366.JPEG> <IMG_0914.JPEG>
|
Re: Rangate 300 Lift Cart
Appreciate the write up David. Yes I too would be in line if you built the ultimate lift bench! I¡¯m not looking for a very traditional bench but something that has a high-low lift range so a scissor lift design is best suited for the application. It will mainly be used as a sanding and cabinet assembly workbench. Assembling large cabinets can be a pain at standard heights off the ground and I prefer not crawling around.? You mentioned I may be happier with the Barth xl vs fat 500s bench. What is the reasoning for that??
And Lucky my shop floor is anything but perfect! I have 2¡± variation in some areas but strategically chose the flattest spot for my workbench area.?
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Show quoted text
On Jul 22, 2023, at 1:58 AM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
? As usual, I feel compelled to comment, largely from the perspective of ¡°let¡¯s cut through the gloss and get to the heartwood of the matter.¡± ?So here goes.
Dan appears to me to be on the right focus if this cart is to be used as a ¡°bench¡± in the woodworking environment. ?I have a couple of different scissors-lift carts in my shop, but the only one I consider stout enough to suffer the rigors of adapting wood into specific structures (hand planing, cutting dovetail joints, etc.) or to act as a reference surface for joining elements at right angles is my Barth 500V. ?The other scissor-lift carts I have would fail miserably at that, but as something that¡¯s ¡°affordable¡± to elevate material or heavy tooling (metal working vise, rotary table) they do just fine, and as something with wheels to stack dimensioned lumber on, they do pretty well at that also. ?So they have a place in my shop, but not as a replacement for something like shown below:
I¡¯ve looked closely at the Felder FAT series with a skeptical eye, and while they are decidedly NOT as robust as a bench than my Barth 500, they are clearly built to a higher level of rigidity and flatness than the Jet cart Dan bought from HD. ?But again, as a true substitute for a ¡°woodworkers bench¡± I wouldn¡¯t want the Felder FAT carts either. ?My Barth 500 just meets, but does not exceed my own expectations of a mobile bench. ?Now, is the Barth worth 5X the Jet? ?Depends on what you¡¯re trying to use it for. ?
The question then becomes ¡°does the Felder FAT or Rangate alternative¡± fill the gap in between? ?I have my doubts and would suggest Dan actually look over the FAT alternative with first hand experience before plunging in on the basis of ¡°it¡¯s Felder, it has to be good - right?¡±.
I still view all of the European-type variants (Barth, Rangate, Felder FAT, etc.) as vastly over priced relative to what they should cost. ?And I still wish there were a suitable USA manufacturer who would enter this field (liker ShopCarts perhaps, or Lista/Vidmar come to mind) who would build a mobile scissors-lift cart that is of sufficient build quality to serve as a woodworker bench. ?After several discussions with Greg at Rangate, I had hopes that they would come up with something to ¡°fill the gap¡±. ?And while the Rangate 300 ¡°Large¡± cart is clearly more robust and rigid than the Felder equivalent, and potentially suitable as a ¡°woodworker bench¡±, it¡¯s been priced relative to the competitive offering from Barth rather than from the perspective of ¡°cost plus x-percent margin¡± which I had hoped for.?
So, Dan, my recommendation that if you¡¯re looking for a bench substitute in combination with lift-and-slide features, you return that Jet. ? But I also recommend you take the time to actually look over your next choice in person rather than rely on brand name or even user recommendations that are alway fraught with confirmation bias. ?You might find that the Felder FAT 500 doesn¡¯t fit your needs, while the Rangate 300 ¡°large¡± does.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Jul 21, 2023, at 10:13 PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
Hi Dan:
Oh, that does not sound good at all. That¡¯s unfortunate as the cart looks pretty solid from the photos. Like you I¡¯d probably put up with a fair bit of ¡°trouble¡± for the cost savings, but if it¡¯s not rigid, then it¡¯s hard to see it working well
when rolled from place to place. Unless your shop floor is perfect! Mine is definitely considerably less than!?
Let us know how you go as we are all looking for good adjustable carts at reasonable prices.?
Warm regards,
Lucky?
Dr David Luckensmeyer
Thanks for your input Lucky. Yes if I were to keep the cart or any of this style I would ditch the handle and mount the trigger release to the underside of my top. This cart is about 1/4 of the price of the 500s or $1100 retail vs $4k plus in
USD.?
My problem with this cart is it seems to be too flexible and will not be a stable enough platform for the type of torsion box top I want. It flexes relatively easily to lateral forces and the upper rollers are mounted loosely where you can twist
the top with ease. ?My suspicion that even a fabricated wood or torsion top will not do much to help in this area. I suppose I can throw my existing torsion top on this and see how it performs.?
On Jul 21, 2023, at 9:18 PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
?
Hi Dan:
I think that¡¯s a good looking purchase. I¡¯m assuming it is significantly less expensive than the FAT alternative? I don¡¯t know why the FATs (and similar) are so expensive. They are not particularly heavily built and the hydraulics are commonly
available.?
I have two FAT 300s. I¡¯m happy with them. But neither were good enough to yield a flat working surface. I made a 30mm timber top for one (shimmed for flat) and a full torsion box style top for the other. As Brian said, make a top and shim it
for full, flat support.?
I assume you¡¯ll ditch the handle? If the hand grip is used to lower the cart, I¡¯d just mount it under the new top so it is out of the way. I do like having braking on all four corners. But casters are cheap so you can replace them if need be.?
Unless there¡¯s something seriously wrong with the cart mechanism, or size, or something that cannot be changed, I¡¯d advocate for keeping it, making a flat top for it, and getting it into use!
Warm regards,
Lucky
Dr David Luckensmeyer
I¡¯m not sure any welded up steel top cart like that is ever going to be ¡°flat¡± enough for what you are wanting. You can mount a another top on it and shim it at the mounting points to get it as flat as you want.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
On Jul 21, 2023, at 2:01 PM, Dan Gavrilyuk <dgwoodco@...> wrote:
Recent discussions prompted me to seriously consider upgrading my current fixed height workbench with a lift table. I ordered a Jet SLT-1100 lift table from Home Depot, this one comes with a 31.5x63 surface. This size and weight is roughly equivalent
to the fat 500s table. I had high hopes but those turned out to be a disappointment, the cart is not a viable option for any accurate (flat, no twist) workbench use. ?Attached are pics showing a severe twist in the top and about a 3/16 cup in the middle. The
bow was likely formed from warping at the welding stage and overall insufficient support. Any thoughts or ideas on how to fix this to create a flat and cools at work surface for a torsion box style top? I think it may not be worth the effort and just send
it back and cough up the money for a 500s.?
I will say the packaging was pretty secure, it came in a fully boxes plywood crate. That¡¯s more than a 20k felder saw with 2x4s and plastic wrap.?
<image0.jpeg><image1.jpeg><image2.jpeg><image3.jpeg><image4.jpeg>
On Jul 14, 2023, at 5:36 PM, Larry Long Neck <longneckwood@...> wrote:
?I noticed at the bottom of Felder's promo email for AWFS that they have a raffle for a "lift table" at the end of the month if you visit their booth. I assume this means a FAT 300, if anyone is going and wants one :)
--
Larry Long Neck
Just a noob trying to learn the ways of wood
|
You will be very hard pressed to find any motor in this class that doesn¡¯t have a plastic cooling fan.? I am rebuilding a got to be 1960 Holz Her power feeder and the fan blade is steel but you may have to go back that far . I just bought a Class A 1.15 SF Baldor made in US cast iron 185 frame and it has a plastic fan! Felder used to use ABB German motors and they were always fine. I have a 7.5 on the shelf but it has metric specs and c or face flange and I need us spec for the shaper replacement ?so I would have no screwing around .? Designing and building for 50 years
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On Jul 23, 2023, at 2:50 PM, rodsheridan <riderofgallifrey@...> wrote:
?Hi Greg, that was a known issue with the motor, I suggest you talk to Felder USA and have them contact Felder in Austria.
They may do something for you¡¡Regards, Rod
|
Hi Greg, that was a known issue with the motor, I suggest you talk to Felder USA and have them contact Felder in Austria.
They may do something for you¡¡Regards, Rod
|
Here is my order cost. I do not have itemized pricing though the website will show it. I do have both switches and in retrospect only need the integrated breaker/  disconnect which acts as a breaker essentially shutting off all power.?
|
Re: Rangate 300 Lift Cart
David Best,
I¡¯ve seen this and I could read the comments forever! ?
Wade
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On Jul 22, 2023, at 5:37 PM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
? Mac, I totally agree, Jason has great showmanship. ?I also have several of his tools, and have enjoyed talking with him. ?If you think his vise test was fun, you should check this out:
|
Only in America.?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Jul 22, 2023, at 5:00 PM, mac campshure via groups.io <mac512002@...> wrote:
David I like his stuff and do buy few things ,, squares allen key holders ?my favorite!!
I have some beautiful vises not like the junk he is testing . But besides being clever he is a showman.?
I especially like that he is young and a builder! He has built an impressive operation.
?I am fortunate to have a few young friends like him.
Mac,,
Designing and building for 50 years
On Jul 22, 2023, at 5:53 PM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
?
David Best,
??? He appears to be qualified! ?
Wade
On Jul 22, 2023, at 1:33 PM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
?
I agree. ?Been thinking about it. ?If I were to start a company to design and manufacture a FAT 500 killer, I know exactly who I¡¯d hire as a consultant to ensure design integrity and to do the testing. ? Check it out:
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Jul 22, 2023, at 5:53 AM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
David Best,
I think this would be a perfect opportunity to launch a new company, ¡°Best Lift Carts¡±.?
???
Wade
Re: Rangate 300 Lift Cart
There goes an hr ?. I enjoyed the anatomy of a vice.
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On Jul 22, 2023, at 4:33 PM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote: ? I agree. ?Been thinking about it. ?If I were to start a company to design and manufacture a FAT 500 killer, I know exactly who I¡¯d hire as a consultant to ensure design integrity and to do the testing. ? Check it out:
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Jul 22, 2023, at 5:53 AM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
David Best,
I think this would be a perfect opportunity to launch a new company, ¡°Best Lift Carts¡±.? ???
Wade
|
Re: Rangate 300 Lift Cart
Mac, I totally agree, Jason has great showmanship. ?I also have several of his tools, and have enjoyed talking with him. ?If you think his vise test was fun, you should check this out:
|
Only in America.?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 22, 2023, at 5:00 PM, mac campshure via groups.io <mac512002@...> wrote:
David I like his stuff and do buy few things ,, squares allen key holders ?my favorite!!
I have some beautiful vises not like the junk he is testing . But besides being clever he is a showman.?
I especially like that he is young and a builder! He has built an impressive operation.
?I am fortunate to have a few young friends like him.
Mac,,
Designing and building for 50 years
On Jul 22, 2023, at 5:53 PM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
?
David Best,
??? He appears to be qualified! ?
Wade
On Jul 22, 2023, at 1:33 PM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
?
I agree. ?Been thinking about it. ?If I were to start a company to design and manufacture a FAT 500 killer, I know exactly who I¡¯d hire as a consultant to ensure design integrity and to do the testing. ? Check it out:
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Jul 22, 2023, at 5:53 AM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
David Best,
I think this would be a perfect opportunity to launch a new company, ¡°Best Lift Carts¡±.?
???
Wade
Re: Rangate 300 Lift Cart
David I like his stuff and do buy few things ,, squares allen key holders ?my favorite!! I have some beautiful vises not like the junk he is testing . But besides being clever he is a showman.? I especially like that he is young and a builder! He has built an impressive operation. ?I am fortunate to have a few young friends like him. Mac,, Designing and building for 50 years
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 22, 2023, at 5:53 PM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
? David Best,
??? He appears to be qualified! ?
Wade On Jul 22, 2023, at 1:33 PM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
? I agree. ?Been thinking about it. ?If I were to start a company to design and manufacture a FAT 500 killer, I know exactly who I¡¯d hire as a consultant to ensure design integrity and to do the testing. ? Check it out:
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Jul 22, 2023, at 5:53 AM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
David Best,
I think this would be a perfect opportunity to launch a new company, ¡°Best Lift Carts¡±.? ???
Wade
|
Re: Rangate 300 Lift Cart
David Best,
??? He appears to be qualified! ?
Wade
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 22, 2023, at 1:33 PM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
? I agree. ?Been thinking about it. ?If I were to start a company to design and manufacture a FAT 500 killer, I know exactly who I¡¯d hire as a consultant to ensure design integrity and to do the testing. ? Check it out:
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Jul 22, 2023, at 5:53 AM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
David Best,
I think this would be a perfect opportunity to launch a new company, ¡°Best Lift Carts¡±.? ???
Wade
|
Re: Rangate 300 Lift Cart
Yes that would be for final torture testing!
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On Jul 22, 2023, at 2:33 PM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
? I agree. ?Been thinking about it. ?If I were to start a company to design and manufacture a FAT 500 killer, I know exactly who I¡¯d hire as a consultant to ensure design integrity and to do the testing. ? Check it out:
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Jul 22, 2023, at 5:53 AM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
David Best,
I think this would be a perfect opportunity to launch a new company, ¡°Best Lift Carts¡±.? ???
Wade
|
Re: Rangate 300 Lift Cart
I agree. ?Been thinking about it. ?If I were to start a company to design and manufacture a FAT 500 killer, I know exactly who I¡¯d hire as a consultant to ensure design integrity and to do the testing. ? Check it out:
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 22, 2023, at 5:53 AM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
David Best,
I think this would be a perfect opportunity to launch a new company, ¡°Best Lift Carts¡±.? ???
Wade
|
Ed,
We recently upgraded to a Phase Perfect Enterprise from a Kay Rotary. ?Wired in a disconnect in front of the PP, and installed a 3 Phase Panel
for 4 other pieces of equipment, with room for expansion. ?My hearing is still pretty good ( I still chase elk with a bow, and am 67).
and find the PP 'noise' to be a non issue. ?I do wear ear plugs when running equipment which helps. ?We also ordered direct from PP,
the cost was competitive, and the folks there were fantastic to work with. ?The big plus, is the voltage is very even on all 3 legs...
Mike
M.E. Blake General Contractors
|
Re: Rangate 300 Lift Cart
I wanted a Barth 500v but couldn't cough-up the money/find one, so I built a substitute from 2 second-hand Southworth electric/hydraulic lift carts that needed servicing and a Polk-style 8'x4' torsion box with UJK Parf holes. (My experiment using a HF bike lift with the Polk-style top was a failure). It does have it's drawbacks but it met my own requirements and I use it regularly as a sheet goods breakdown/assembly/workbench table. It has enough mass not to move when the stand/brakes are engaged when planing etc., and I can shove it out of the way when necessary. The carts do rise and lower independently of each other and this has pros and cons.? FWIW, I also bought the Felder 300 with extendible top, primarily as a more mobile work cart/infeed-outfeed/assembly table. I gave up trying to find one solution that did it all. I don't want to go off topic from the OP so if anyone is interested, I can supply more information off this thread. Cheers, Rob P.   
|
Re: Rangate 300 Lift Cart
The die tables are solid but have o small foot print maybe 3x6 top or could add outriggers quite easy,? I have 2 southworth on very nice has wheels and hook on puller only sits 7¡± off ground ?4x6¡¯ steel table rise 42¡± 4000# this is a very handy height for stuff I get or have to move were my loading docks aren¡¯t suited to client. And has work table. For all kinds of stuff.? My second is 5x8 sits 17¡± off gr and rise to 7.5¡¯ 6000# this one is going on my basement for shop elevator. Designing and building for 50 years
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On Jul 22, 2023, at 9:36 AM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
? I think maybe if you want a more solid table, look into commercial lift tables, like this Wesco, with a four post design I suspect it might be a more solid surface than the scissor lift style tables, just not sure if it has enough height range:
|
Then there are heavy duty tables from Southworth, pricey though:
And Prestolift and Vestil all make tables as well.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
On Jul 22, 2023, at 4:25 AM, Jason Holtz <jholtzy@...> wrote:
If you want an adjustable height, actual workbench and not just some mobile cart on steroids, check out this:
My friend Charlie designed this and I've seen his first hand. It's rock solid for hand planing and any and all traditional workbench tasks.?
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765
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Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
Taylor, do you happen to have the name of the person you spoke to who hinted about the new toroid design? I have a few months realistically before I¡¯m ready to install, so I can afford to wait. Also, to be clear, your unit has two switches, an on/off, and a separate service disconnect? Do you remember the cost on each option?
David Kumm, you made a great point earlier about running both a wide belt and a compressor at the same time. Since everything has to get down a stairwell, realistically the largest WB I¡¯d ever get is the Felder 950, and I¡¯m aware of the issues others have reported with this unit. Most likely I¡¯d end up with the 850 if they were willing to significantly decrease the price. Definitely not a good value or worth the risk on a new product at 16k. Otherwise it would be the open end unit David Best has and has recommended.?
David Best, thanks for the detailed description and shop pics. I was looking into distribution blocks earlier and couldn¡¯t find smaller blocks with 2 line side and 1-2 taps on the distribution side. My brain was stuck on the idea that the line side was the pass through for the 6ga daisy chain and the load side was dedicated to the 8ga feeding the outlet. Eventually I looked up the part number you suggested and the light bulb went off. Since the block is 175a rated, you can use 6ga on the load side and ignore the line side if you want. The sales guy at PP felt like a new hire. I¡¯ll call back and get someone more experienced. Probably just call into the service side instead of sales.
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Re: Rangate 300 Lift Cart
I think maybe if you want a more solid table, look into commercial lift tables, like this Wesco, with a four post design I suspect it might be a more solid surface than the scissor lift style tables, just not sure if it has enough height range:
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Then there are heavy duty tables from Southworth, pricey though:
And Prestolift and Vestil all make tables as well.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
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On Jul 22, 2023, at 4:25 AM, Jason Holtz <jholtzy@...> wrote:
If you want an adjustable height, actual workbench and not just some mobile cart on steroids, check out this:
My friend Charlie designed this and I've seen his first hand. It's rock solid for hand planing and any and all traditional workbench tasks.?
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765
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Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
Re: Fusion 360 vs. Solidworks for Makers
I have been using Shapr3d since it¡¯s inception, i have used Solidworks, inventor and highly customized NX. Shapr3d is far simpler to grasp than the others however in general once you grasp the concept to use one the others aren¡¯t too difficult to figure out (except all the nuances ?). Shapr3d is built on Siemens NX (same as NX but not nearly as powerful or complex) I am grandfathered in at $200yr¡
One thing about Shapr3d is it is currently not parametric but will be soon. I was discussing cut list generation with them but never followed up so they are open to improvements which i like
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Re: Rangate 300 Lift Cart
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On Jul 22, 2023, at 6:53 AM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
? David Best,
I think this would be a perfect opportunity to launch a new company, ¡°Best Lift Carts¡±.? ???
Wade On Jul 21, 2023, at 10:58 PM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
? As usual, I feel compelled to comment, largely from the perspective of ¡°let¡¯s cut through the gloss and get to the heartwood of the matter.¡± ?So here goes.
Dan appears to me to be on the right focus if this cart is to be used as a ¡°bench¡± in the woodworking environment. ?I have a couple of different scissors-lift carts in my shop, but the only one I consider stout enough to suffer the rigors of adapting wood into specific structures (hand planing, cutting dovetail joints, etc.) or to act as a reference surface for joining elements at right angles is my Barth 500V. ?The other scissor-lift carts I have would fail miserably at that, but as something that¡¯s ¡°affordable¡± to elevate material or heavy tooling (metal working vise, rotary table) they do just fine, and as something with wheels to stack dimensioned lumber on, they do pretty well at that also. ?So they have a place in my shop, but not as a replacement for something like shown below:
I¡¯ve looked closely at the Felder FAT series with a skeptical eye, and while they are decidedly NOT as robust as a bench than my Barth 500, they are clearly built to a higher level of rigidity and flatness than the Jet cart Dan bought from HD. ?But again, as a true substitute for a ¡°woodworkers bench¡± I wouldn¡¯t want the Felder FAT carts either. ?My Barth 500 just meets, but does not exceed my own expectations of a mobile bench. ?Now, is the Barth worth 5X the Jet? ?Depends on what you¡¯re trying to use it for. ?
The question then becomes ¡°does the Felder FAT or Rangate alternative¡± fill the gap in between? ?I have my doubts and would suggest Dan actually look over the FAT alternative with first hand experience before plunging in on the basis of ¡°it¡¯s Felder, it has to be good - right?¡±.
I still view all of the European-type variants (Barth, Rangate, Felder FAT, etc.) as vastly over priced relative to what they should cost. ?And I still wish there were a suitable USA manufacturer who would enter this field (liker ShopCarts perhaps, or Lista/Vidmar come to mind) who would build a mobile scissors-lift cart that is of sufficient build quality to serve as a woodworker bench. ?After several discussions with Greg at Rangate, I had hopes that they would come up with something to ¡°fill the gap¡±. ?And while the Rangate 300 ¡°Large¡± cart is clearly more robust and rigid than the Felder equivalent, and potentially suitable as a ¡°woodworker bench¡±, it¡¯s been priced relative to the competitive offering from Barth rather than from the perspective of ¡°cost plus x-percent margin¡± which I had hoped for.?
So, Dan, my recommendation that if you¡¯re looking for a bench substitute in combination with lift-and-slide features, you return that Jet. ? But I also recommend you take the time to actually look over your next choice in person rather than rely on brand name or even user recommendations that are alway fraught with confirmation bias. ?You might find that the Felder FAT 500 doesn¡¯t fit your needs, while the Rangate 300 ¡°large¡± does.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Jul 21, 2023, at 10:13 PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
Hi Dan:
Oh, that does not sound good at all. That¡¯s unfortunate as the cart looks pretty solid from the photos. Like you I¡¯d probably put up with a fair bit of ¡°trouble¡± for the cost savings, but if it¡¯s not rigid, then it¡¯s hard to see it working well
when rolled from place to place. Unless your shop floor is perfect! Mine is definitely considerably less than!?
Let us know how you go as we are all looking for good adjustable carts at reasonable prices.?
Warm regards,
Lucky?
Dr David Luckensmeyer
Thanks for your input Lucky. Yes if I were to keep the cart or any of this style I would ditch the handle and mount the trigger release to the underside of my top. This cart is about 1/4 of the price of the 500s or $1100 retail vs $4k plus in
USD.?
My problem with this cart is it seems to be too flexible and will not be a stable enough platform for the type of torsion box top I want. It flexes relatively easily to lateral forces and the upper rollers are mounted loosely where you can twist
the top with ease. ?My suspicion that even a fabricated wood or torsion top will not do much to help in this area. I suppose I can throw my existing torsion top on this and see how it performs.?
On Jul 21, 2023, at 9:18 PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
?
Hi Dan:
I think that¡¯s a good looking purchase. I¡¯m assuming it is significantly less expensive than the FAT alternative? I don¡¯t know why the FATs (and similar) are so expensive. They are not particularly heavily built and the hydraulics are commonly
available.?
I have two FAT 300s. I¡¯m happy with them. But neither were good enough to yield a flat working surface. I made a 30mm timber top for one (shimmed for flat) and a full torsion box style top for the other. As Brian said, make a top and shim it
for full, flat support.?
I assume you¡¯ll ditch the handle? If the hand grip is used to lower the cart, I¡¯d just mount it under the new top so it is out of the way. I do like having braking on all four corners. But casters are cheap so you can replace them if need be.?
Unless there¡¯s something seriously wrong with the cart mechanism, or size, or something that cannot be changed, I¡¯d advocate for keeping it, making a flat top for it, and getting it into use!
Warm regards,
Lucky
Dr David Luckensmeyer
I¡¯m not sure any welded up steel top cart like that is ever going to be ¡°flat¡± enough for what you are wanting. You can mount a another top on it and shim it at the mounting points to get it as flat as you want.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
On Jul 21, 2023, at 2:01 PM, Dan Gavrilyuk <dgwoodco@...> wrote:
Recent discussions prompted me to seriously consider upgrading my current fixed height workbench with a lift table. I ordered a Jet SLT-1100 lift table from Home Depot, this one comes with a 31.5x63 surface. This size and weight is roughly equivalent
to the fat 500s table. I had high hopes but those turned out to be a disappointment, the cart is not a viable option for any accurate (flat, no twist) workbench use. ?Attached are pics showing a severe twist in the top and about a 3/16 cup in the middle. The
bow was likely formed from warping at the welding stage and overall insufficient support. Any thoughts or ideas on how to fix this to create a flat and cools at work surface for a torsion box style top? I think it may not be worth the effort and just send
it back and cough up the money for a 500s.?
I will say the packaging was pretty secure, it came in a fully boxes plywood crate. That¡¯s more than a 20k felder saw with 2x4s and plastic wrap.?
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On Jul 14, 2023, at 5:36 PM, Larry Long Neck <longneckwood@...> wrote:
?I noticed at the bottom of Felder's promo email for AWFS that they have a raffle for a "lift table" at the end of the month if you visit their booth. I assume this means a FAT 300, if anyone is going and wants one :)
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Larry Long Neck
Just a noob trying to learn the ways of wood
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David P. Best
Dan Gavrilyuk
rodsheridan
imran
Rob Pritchard
