On Jul 22, 2023, at 5:53 PM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:

?

David Best,

??? He appears to be qualified! ?

Wade

On Jul 22, 2023, at 1:33 PM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:

?I agree. ?Been thinking about it. ?If I were to start a company to design and manufacture a FAT 500 killer, I know exactly who I’d hire as a consultant to ensure design integrity and to do the testing. ? Check it out:

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best

On Jul 22, 2023, at 5:53 AM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:

David Best,

I think this would be a perfect opportunity to launch a new company, “Best Lift Carts”.?

???

Wade

On Jul 22, 2023, at 1:33 PM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:

?I agree. ?Been thinking about it. ?If I were to start a company to design and manufacture a FAT 500 killer, I know exactly who I’d hire as a consultant to ensure design integrity and to do the testing. ? Check it out:

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best

On Jul 22, 2023, at 5:53 AM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:

David Best,

I think this would be a perfect opportunity to launch a new company, “Best Lift Carts”.?

???

Wade

On Jul 22, 2023, at 2:33 PM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:

?I agree. ?Been thinking about it. ?If I were to start a company to design and manufacture a FAT 500 killer, I know exactly who I’d hire as a consultant to ensure design integrity and to do the testing. ? Check it out:

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best

On Jul 22, 2023, at 5:53 AM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:

David Best,

I think this would be a perfect opportunity to launch a new company, “Best Lift Carts”.?

???

Wade

On Jul 22, 2023, at 5:53 AM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:

David Best,

I think this would be a perfect opportunity to launch a new company, “Best Lift Carts”.?

???

Wade

On Jul 22, 2023, at 9:36 AM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:

?I think maybe if you want a more solid table, look into commercial lift tables, like this Wesco, with a four post design I suspect it might be a more solid surface than the scissor lift style tables, just not sure if it has enough height range:

Then there are heavy duty tables from Southworth, pricey though:

On Jul 22, 2023, at 6:53 AM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:

?

David Best,

I think this would be a perfect opportunity to launch a new company, “Best Lift Carts”.?

???

Wade

On Jul 21, 2023, at 10:58 PM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:

?As usual, I feel compelled to comment, largely from the perspective of “let’s cut through the gloss and get to the heartwood of the matter.” ?So here goes.

Dan appears to me to be on the right focus if this cart is to be used as a “bench” in the woodworking environment. ?I have a couple of different scissors-lift carts in my shop, but the only one I consider stout enough to suffer the rigors of adapting wood into specific structures (hand planing, cutting dovetail joints, etc.) or to act as a reference surface for joining elements at right angles is my Barth 500V. ?The other scissor-lift carts I have would fail miserably at that, but as something that’s “affordable” to elevate material or heavy tooling (metal working vise, rotary table) they do just fine, and as something with wheels to stack dimensioned lumber on, they do pretty well at that also. ?So they have a place in my shop, but not as a replacement for something like shown below:

<Bench.jpeg>

I’ve looked closely at the Felder FAT series with a skeptical eye, and while they are decidedly NOT as robust as a bench than my Barth 500, they are clearly built to a higher level of rigidity and flatness than the Jet cart Dan bought from HD. ?But again, as a true substitute for a “woodworkers bench” I wouldn’t want the Felder FAT carts either. ?My Barth 500 just meets, but does not exceed my own expectations of a mobile bench. ?Now, is the Barth worth 5X the Jet? ?Depends on what you’re trying to use it for. ?

The question then becomes “does the Felder FAT or Rangate alternative” fill the gap in between? ?I have my doubts and would suggest Dan actually look over the FAT alternative with first hand experience before plunging in on the basis of “it’s Felder, it has to be good - right?”.

I still view all of the European-type variants (Barth, Rangate, Felder FAT, etc.) as vastly over priced relative to what they should cost. ?And I still wish there were a suitable USA manufacturer who would enter this field (liker ShopCarts perhaps, or Lista/Vidmar come to mind) who would build a mobile scissors-lift cart that is of sufficient build quality to serve as a woodworker bench. ?After several discussions with Greg at Rangate, I had hopes that they would come up with something to “fill the gap”. ?And while the Rangate 300 “Large” cart is clearly more robust and rigid than the Felder equivalent, and potentially suitable as a “woodworker bench”, it’s been priced relative to the competitive offering from Barth rather than from the perspective of “cost plus x-percent margin” which I had hoped for.?

So, Dan, my recommendation that if you’re looking for a bench substitute in combination with lift-and-slide features, you return that Jet. ? But I also recommend you take the time to actually look over your next choice in person rather than rely on brand name or even user recommendations that are alway fraught with confirmation bias. ?You might find that the Felder FAT 500 doesn’t fit your needs, while the Rangate 300 “large” does.

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best

On Jul 21, 2023, at 10:13 PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:

Hi Dan:

Oh, that does not sound good at all. That’s unfortunate as the cart looks pretty solid from the photos. Like you I’d probably put up with a fair bit of “trouble” for the cost savings, but if it’s not rigid, then it’s hard to see it working well when rolled from place to place. Unless your shop floor is perfect! Mine is definitely considerably less than!?

Let us know how you go as we are all looking for good adjustable carts at reasonable prices.?

Warm regards,

Lucky?

Dr David Luckensmeyer

---

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Dan Gavrilyuk <dgwoodco@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2023 1:42:07 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Rangate 300 Lift Cart

?

Thanks for your input Lucky. Yes if I were to keep the cart or any of this style I would ditch the handle and mount the trigger release to the underside of my top. This cart is about 1/4 of the price of the 500s or $1100 retail vs $4k plus in USD.?

My problem with this cart is it seems to be too flexible and will not be a stable enough platform for the type of torsion box top I want. It flexes relatively easily to lateral forces and the upper rollers are mounted loosely where you can twist the top with ease. ?My suspicion that even a fabricated wood or torsion top will not do much to help in this area. I suppose I can throw my existing torsion top on this and see how it performs.?

On Jul 21, 2023, at 9:18 PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:

?

Hi Dan:

I think that’s a good looking purchase. I’m assuming it is significantly less expensive than the FAT alternative? I don’t know why the FATs (and similar) are so expensive. They are not particularly heavily built and the hydraulics are commonly available.?

I have two FAT 300s. I’m happy with them. But neither were good enough to yield a flat working surface. I made a 30mm timber top for one (shimmed for flat) and a full torsion box style top for the other. As Brian said, make a top and shim it for full, flat support.?

I assume you’ll ditch the handle? If the hand grip is used to lower the cart, I’d just mount it under the new top so it is out of the way. I do like having braking on all four corners. But casters are cheap so you can replace them if need be.?

Unless there’s something seriously wrong with the cart mechanism, or size, or something that cannot be changed, I’d advocate for keeping it, making a flat top for it, and getting it into use!

Warm regards,

Lucky

Dr David Luckensmeyer

---

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Brian Lamb <blamb11@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2023 8:58:57 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Rangate 300 Lift Cart

?

I’m not sure any welded up steel top cart like that is ever going to be “flat” enough for what you are wanting. You can mount a another top on it and shim it at the mounting points to get it as flat as you want.

Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com

On Jul 21, 2023, at 2:01 PM, Dan Gavrilyuk <dgwoodco@...> wrote:

Recent discussions prompted me to seriously consider upgrading my current fixed height workbench with a lift table. I ordered a Jet SLT-1100 lift table from Home Depot, this one comes with a 31.5x63 surface. This size and weight is roughly equivalent to the fat 500s table. I had high hopes but those turned out to be a disappointment, the cart is not a viable option for any accurate (flat, no twist) workbench use. ?Attached are pics showing a severe twist in the top and about a 3/16 cup in the middle. The bow was likely formed from warping at the welding stage and overall insufficient support. Any thoughts or ideas on how to fix this to create a flat and cools at work surface for a torsion box style top? I think it may not be worth the effort and just send it back and cough up the money for a 500s.?

I will say the packaging was pretty secure, it came in a fully boxes plywood crate. That’s more than a 20k felder saw with 2x4s and plastic wrap.?

<image0.jpeg><image1.jpeg><image2.jpeg><image3.jpeg><image4.jpeg>

On Jul 14, 2023, at 5:36 PM, Larry Long Neck <longneckwood@...> wrote:

?I noticed at the bottom of Felder's promo email for AWFS that they have a raffle for a "lift table" at the end of the month if you visit their booth. I assume this means a FAT 300, if anyone is going and wants one :)
--

Larry Long Neck

Just a noob trying to learn the ways of wood

On Jul 21, 2023, at 10:58 PM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:

?As usual, I feel compelled to comment, largely from the perspective of “let’s cut through the gloss and get to the heartwood of the matter.” ?So here goes.

Dan appears to me to be on the right focus if this cart is to be used as a “bench” in the woodworking environment. ?I have a couple of different scissors-lift carts in my shop, but the only one I consider stout enough to suffer the rigors of adapting wood into specific structures (hand planing, cutting dovetail joints, etc.) or to act as a reference surface for joining elements at right angles is my Barth 500V. ?The other scissor-lift carts I have would fail miserably at that, but as something that’s “affordable” to elevate material or heavy tooling (metal working vise, rotary table) they do just fine, and as something with wheels to stack dimensioned lumber on, they do pretty well at that also. ?So they have a place in my shop, but not as a replacement for something like shown below:

I’ve looked closely at the Felder FAT series with a skeptical eye, and while they are decidedly NOT as robust as a bench than my Barth 500, they are clearly built to a higher level of rigidity and flatness than the Jet cart Dan bought from HD. ?But again, as a true substitute for a “woodworkers bench” I wouldn’t want the Felder FAT carts either. ?My Barth 500 just meets, but does not exceed my own expectations of a mobile bench. ?Now, is the Barth worth 5X the Jet? ?Depends on what you’re trying to use it for. ?

The question then becomes “does the Felder FAT or Rangate alternative” fill the gap in between? ?I have my doubts and would suggest Dan actually look over the FAT alternative with first hand experience before plunging in on the basis of “it’s Felder, it has to be good - right?”.

I still view all of the European-type variants (Barth, Rangate, Felder FAT, etc.) as vastly over priced relative to what they should cost. ?And I still wish there were a suitable USA manufacturer who would enter this field (liker ShopCarts perhaps, or Lista/Vidmar come to mind) who would build a mobile scissors-lift cart that is of sufficient build quality to serve as a woodworker bench. ?After several discussions with Greg at Rangate, I had hopes that they would come up with something to “fill the gap”. ?And while the Rangate 300 “Large” cart is clearly more robust and rigid than the Felder equivalent, and potentially suitable as a “woodworker bench”, it’s been priced relative to the competitive offering from Barth rather than from the perspective of “cost plus x-percent margin” which I had hoped for.?

So, Dan, my recommendation that if you’re looking for a bench substitute in combination with lift-and-slide features, you return that Jet. ? But I also recommend you take the time to actually look over your next choice in person rather than rely on brand name or even user recommendations that are alway fraught with confirmation bias. ?You might find that the Felder FAT 500 doesn’t fit your needs, while the Rangate 300 “large” does.

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best

On Jul 21, 2023, at 10:13 PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:

Hi Dan:

Oh, that does not sound good at all. That’s unfortunate as the cart looks pretty solid from the photos. Like you I’d probably put up with a fair bit of “trouble” for the cost savings, but if it’s not rigid, then it’s hard to see it working well when rolled from place to place. Unless your shop floor is perfect! Mine is definitely considerably less than!?

Let us know how you go as we are all looking for good adjustable carts at reasonable prices.?

Warm regards,

Lucky?

Dr David Luckensmeyer

---

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Dan Gavrilyuk <dgwoodco@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2023 1:42:07 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Rangate 300 Lift Cart

?

Thanks for your input Lucky. Yes if I were to keep the cart or any of this style I would ditch the handle and mount the trigger release to the underside of my top. This cart is about 1/4 of the price of the 500s or $1100 retail vs $4k plus in USD.?

My problem with this cart is it seems to be too flexible and will not be a stable enough platform for the type of torsion box top I want. It flexes relatively easily to lateral forces and the upper rollers are mounted loosely where you can twist the top with ease. ?My suspicion that even a fabricated wood or torsion top will not do much to help in this area. I suppose I can throw my existing torsion top on this and see how it performs.?

On Jul 21, 2023, at 9:18 PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:

?

Hi Dan:

I think that’s a good looking purchase. I’m assuming it is significantly less expensive than the FAT alternative? I don’t know why the FATs (and similar) are so expensive. They are not particularly heavily built and the hydraulics are commonly available.?

I have two FAT 300s. I’m happy with them. But neither were good enough to yield a flat working surface. I made a 30mm timber top for one (shimmed for flat) and a full torsion box style top for the other. As Brian said, make a top and shim it for full, flat support.?

I assume you’ll ditch the handle? If the hand grip is used to lower the cart, I’d just mount it under the new top so it is out of the way. I do like having braking on all four corners. But casters are cheap so you can replace them if need be.?

Unless there’s something seriously wrong with the cart mechanism, or size, or something that cannot be changed, I’d advocate for keeping it, making a flat top for it, and getting it into use!

Warm regards,

Lucky

Dr David Luckensmeyer

---

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Brian Lamb <blamb11@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2023 8:58:57 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Rangate 300 Lift Cart

?

I’m not sure any welded up steel top cart like that is ever going to be “flat” enough for what you are wanting. You can mount a another top on it and shim it at the mounting points to get it as flat as you want.

Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com

On Jul 21, 2023, at 2:01 PM, Dan Gavrilyuk <dgwoodco@...> wrote:

Recent discussions prompted me to seriously consider upgrading my current fixed height workbench with a lift table. I ordered a Jet SLT-1100 lift table from Home Depot, this one comes with a 31.5x63 surface. This size and weight is roughly equivalent to the fat 500s table. I had high hopes but those turned out to be a disappointment, the cart is not a viable option for any accurate (flat, no twist) workbench use. ?Attached are pics showing a severe twist in the top and about a 3/16 cup in the middle. The bow was likely formed from warping at the welding stage and overall insufficient support. Any thoughts or ideas on how to fix this to create a flat and cools at work surface for a torsion box style top? I think it may not be worth the effort and just send it back and cough up the money for a 500s.?

I will say the packaging was pretty secure, it came in a fully boxes plywood crate. That’s more than a 20k felder saw with 2x4s and plastic wrap.?

<image0.jpeg><image1.jpeg><image2.jpeg><image3.jpeg><image4.jpeg>

On Jul 14, 2023, at 5:36 PM, Larry Long Neck <longneckwood@...> wrote:

?I noticed at the bottom of Felder's promo email for AWFS that they have a raffle for a "lift table" at the end of the month if you visit their booth. I assume this means a FAT 300, if anyone is going and wants one :)
--

Larry Long Neck

Just a noob trying to learn the ways of wood

On Jul 21, 2023, at 10:13 PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:

Hi Dan:

Oh, that does not sound good at all. That’s unfortunate as the cart looks pretty solid from the photos. Like you I’d probably put up with a fair bit of “trouble” for the cost savings, but if it’s not rigid, then it’s hard to see it working well when rolled from place to place. Unless your shop floor is perfect! Mine is definitely considerably less than!?

Let us know how you go as we are all looking for good adjustable carts at reasonable prices.?

Warm regards,

Lucky?

Dr David Luckensmeyer

---

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Dan Gavrilyuk <dgwoodco@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2023 1:42:07 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Rangate 300 Lift Cart

?

Thanks for your input Lucky. Yes if I were to keep the cart or any of this style I would ditch the handle and mount the trigger release to the underside of my top. This cart is about 1/4 of the price of the 500s or $1100 retail vs $4k plus in USD.?

My problem with this cart is it seems to be too flexible and will not be a stable enough platform for the type of torsion box top I want. It flexes relatively easily to lateral forces and the upper rollers are mounted loosely where you can twist the top with ease. ?My suspicion that even a fabricated wood or torsion top will not do much to help in this area. I suppose I can throw my existing torsion top on this and see how it performs.?

On Jul 21, 2023, at 9:18 PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:

?

Hi Dan:

I think that’s a good looking purchase. I’m assuming it is significantly less expensive than the FAT alternative? I don’t know why the FATs (and similar) are so expensive. They are not particularly heavily built and the hydraulics are commonly available.?

I have two FAT 300s. I’m happy with them. But neither were good enough to yield a flat working surface. I made a 30mm timber top for one (shimmed for flat) and a full torsion box style top for the other. As Brian said, make a top and shim it for full, flat support.?

I assume you’ll ditch the handle? If the hand grip is used to lower the cart, I’d just mount it under the new top so it is out of the way. I do like having braking on all four corners. But casters are cheap so you can replace them if need be.?

Unless there’s something seriously wrong with the cart mechanism, or size, or something that cannot be changed, I’d advocate for keeping it, making a flat top for it, and getting it into use!

Warm regards,

Lucky

Dr David Luckensmeyer

---

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Brian Lamb <blamb11@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2023 8:58:57 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Rangate 300 Lift Cart

?

I’m not sure any welded up steel top cart like that is ever going to be “flat” enough for what you are wanting. You can mount a another top on it and shim it at the mounting points to get it as flat as you want.

Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com

On Jul 21, 2023, at 2:01 PM, Dan Gavrilyuk <dgwoodco@...> wrote:

Recent discussions prompted me to seriously consider upgrading my current fixed height workbench with a lift table. I ordered a Jet SLT-1100 lift table from Home Depot, this one comes with a 31.5x63 surface. This size and weight is roughly equivalent to the fat 500s table. I had high hopes but those turned out to be a disappointment, the cart is not a viable option for any accurate (flat, no twist) workbench use. ?Attached are pics showing a severe twist in the top and about a 3/16 cup in the middle. The bow was likely formed from warping at the welding stage and overall insufficient support. Any thoughts or ideas on how to fix this to create a flat and cools at work surface for a torsion box style top? I think it may not be worth the effort and just send it back and cough up the money for a 500s.?

I will say the packaging was pretty secure, it came in a fully boxes plywood crate. That’s more than a 20k felder saw with 2x4s and plastic wrap.?

<image0.jpeg><image1.jpeg><image2.jpeg><image3.jpeg><image4.jpeg>

On Jul 14, 2023, at 5:36 PM, Larry Long Neck <longneckwood@...> wrote:

?I noticed at the bottom of Felder's promo email for AWFS that they have a raffle for a "lift table" at the end of the month if you visit their booth. I assume this means a FAT 300, if anyone is going and wants one :)
--

Larry Long Neck

Just a noob trying to learn the ways of wood

On Jul 21, 2023, at 9:18 PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:

?

Hi Dan:

I think that’s a good looking purchase. I’m assuming it is significantly less expensive than the FAT alternative? I don’t know why the FATs (and similar) are so expensive. They are not particularly heavily built and the hydraulics are commonly available.?

I have two FAT 300s. I’m happy with them. But neither were good enough to yield a flat working surface. I made a 30mm timber top for one (shimmed for flat) and a full torsion box style top for the other. As Brian said, make a top and shim it for full, flat support.?

I assume you’ll ditch the handle? If the hand grip is used to lower the cart, I’d just mount it under the new top so it is out of the way. I do like having braking on all four corners. But casters are cheap so you can replace them if need be.?

Unless there’s something seriously wrong with the cart mechanism, or size, or something that cannot be changed, I’d advocate for keeping it, making a flat top for it, and getting it into use!

Warm regards,

Lucky

Dr David Luckensmeyer

---

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Brian Lamb <blamb11@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2023 8:58:57 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Rangate 300 Lift Cart

?

I’m not sure any welded up steel top cart like that is ever going to be “flat” enough for what you are wanting. You can mount a another top on it and shim it at the mounting points to get it as flat as you want.

Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com

On Jul 21, 2023, at 2:01 PM, Dan Gavrilyuk <dgwoodco@...> wrote:

Recent discussions prompted me to seriously consider upgrading my current fixed height workbench with a lift table. I ordered a Jet SLT-1100 lift table from Home Depot, this one comes with a 31.5x63 surface. This size and weight is roughly equivalent to the fat 500s table. I had high hopes but those turned out to be a disappointment, the cart is not a viable option for any accurate (flat, no twist) workbench use. ?Attached are pics showing a severe twist in the top and about a 3/16 cup in the middle. The bow was likely formed from warping at the welding stage and overall insufficient support. Any thoughts or ideas on how to fix this to create a flat and cools at work surface for a torsion box style top? I think it may not be worth the effort and just send it back and cough up the money for a 500s.?

I will say the packaging was pretty secure, it came in a fully boxes plywood crate. That’s more than a 20k felder saw with 2x4s and plastic wrap.?

<image0.jpeg><image1.jpeg><image2.jpeg><image3.jpeg><image4.jpeg>

On Jul 14, 2023, at 5:36 PM, Larry Long Neck <longneckwood@...> wrote:

?I noticed at the bottom of Felder's promo email for AWFS that they have a raffle for a "lift table" at the end of the month if you visit their booth. I assume this means a FAT 300, if anyone is going and wants one :)
--

Larry Long Neck

Just a noob trying to learn the ways of wood

On Jul 21, 2023, at 1:22 PM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:

?

I also have two blue and one white ( about 5 years old ) 10-30 hp units and the buzzing sound isn't loud enough to remind me they are on.? When I do hear them I get hungry for bacon.

The newer ones must be worse although my wife claims I'm deaf.? Dave

---

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...>
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2023 3:13 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Phase Perfect Order

?

Ed. I’m a bit surprised you didn’t get stellar sales support when you called PP. ?Every encounter I’ve had with them has been superb. ?

When I moved my shop from SFO to Portland, my PP took a 10-foot dive off the top of my forklift and landed upside down on my ShopCart panel cart. ?It bashed the crap out of the PP (the ShopCart did fine). ? ?I called PP and they asked me to send them some photos, which I did, and then said “send it to us, we’ll fix it.” ? Looking inside, the main large printed circuit board was bent and cracked in the middle ?and the case was completely trashed. ? Photos:

<DSC_7155.jpeg>

<DSC_7161.jpg>

The repaired unit came back within a week and cost all of $512 plus shipping ($240). ? Great service. ?That was in 2011, and it’s been working fine since. ?PP has certainly grown a lot since then, and I’m guessing the new sales guy doesn’t have the same customer dedication as the original founders. ? FYI, I do not have the noise issue others complain about. ?

Sorry if I confused you with the different wire specs on my drawing. ?I’ve wired up so many shops now that keeping all the variations straight is taxing my small brain. ?Here’s a photo of my wiring cart when I did the current shop.

<Electrical Cart - 1.jpeg>

In my current shop I have 1” EMT but I’m running the 3-phase and two single-phase circuits in the same pipe. ?It’s significantly more difficult to work with than 3/4” EMT - bending-wise that is. ?In other shops I have used 3/4” EMT which is sufficient for four #6 THHN conductors. ?The wire size on my previously posted diagram is correct with respect to my current shop: ?#4 from sub panel to the PP, #6 throughout the shop, and #8 from the distribution blocks to the individual sockets for each machine. ?It’s overkill. ?I’ve always considered disconnects at the machine only important if the machine is hard wired to the J-box - if the machine has a cord with a plug/socket at the mains connection, and disconnect is superfluous. Here is a photo of the enclosure containing one of the distribution blocks mounted to the ceiling:

<Wiring - 2.jpeg>

It would be difficult to access this to take photos of the inside, but it’s nothing complex. ?Here’s a video about the distribution blocks: ?. ? During installation, I pull all the wiring first, daisy-chaining from box to box leaving about 12” pigtails hanging loose, then attach the incoming #6 and outgoing #8 THHN wires to the distribution block first, then install the block to the back of the enclosure with self-drilling sheet metal screws, then add the cover panel. ? It’s much easier to make the #6 wire connections to the distribution blocks before the blocks are screwed to the back of the relatively tiny enclosure. ?

This photo is my current basement shop showing the main 200 Amp breaker panel on the left, and the 100 Amp sub-panel I added to the right of it, and the PP below. ?The black and orange Romex cables are a later 30 Amp 220VAC additions to support my welder and mill/lathe, otherwise all the shop circuits are in EMT.

<Wiring - 1.jpeg>

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best

David, thanks for the detailed specs on the components you used. Seeing that you didn’t use a breaker anywhere on the output side makes me wonder if our local code would approve it as well. Do you have any photos to share of the mounted PP and possibly one of the distribution boxes? Sometimes seeing the finished job fills in the nuances that I may miss while planning. FYI, your diagram shows #4-6 wire, but your description says #6-8. I’m thinking 6-8 is correct?

The PT series only has a 10 and 20HP version now. So I’m going to have to think hard about what I realistically might add in the future. I have no doubts the 10HP would run the 45z shaper with ease.