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Re: Overarm saw (crown) guard
On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 12:16 PM, Aaron Inami wrote:
Interesting.? The video on the Harvey web page shows the guy pushing the guard ¡°away¡± from his operator position instead of pulling it towards him.
If you're referring to the video about the Harvey workstation that's on the page you linked, I don't even see the guard being moved in that video.? Perhaps there's another video out there, or I'm just not realizing the part where the guard is moved. However if you look at the first picture on the page that shows the guard you can see two little black (rubber) cylinders where the shiny vertical metal arm meets the black base.? One cylinder is vertical, the other is horizontal.? The vertical one is attached to the base and is the stop.? The horizontal one is attached to the vertical piece and rotates as the guard pivots.? If you try to push the guard away (toward the back of the saw) then the cylinders will collide and the pivot motion will stop.? If you move the guard toward the front then the cylinders will get further apart, thus allowing the pivot.
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Re: Overarm saw (crown) guard
If the overhead guard pivot-latch mechanism is anything like my Kappa 400, it¡¯s pretty simple to add a release mechanism at the slider-side of the machine. ?Have a look at this mod:
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David Best - via mobile phone?
David Best - via mobile phone?
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On Mar 9, 2023, at 8:01 AM, John Hinman <jhinman1911@...> wrote:
?This sounds like an interesting project.
I have the Felder overhead guard, and like it but would change a couple of things if I could. I¡¯ll throw these out just for ideas:
First, the Felder guard is hard to lift. I have to use two hands to adjust the clearance over the work piece. If I could make that easier to operate I would. I¡¯ve tried to adjust the tension in the guides but have not had success.
Second, sometimes the guard ?has to be moved completely out of the way. On my Felder that means walking around to the back of the machine and unscrewing a bolt. Putting it back in place means another trip around the machine. If there was a way to release the guard from the operator¡¯s normal position that would be really convenient.
Third, even though the guard itself is clear it is not easy to see the blade to check for blade height and such. Not sure how to fix that. If it was easier to lift the guard a bit that might not be so much of an issue.
Lastly, the dust collection is not great. Collection is through a part of the support arm, and between the small area and the sharp corners in the route the air flow is restricted.
Just some things to think about. I hope to see what you come up with!
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
Re: Overarm saw (crown) guard
Interesting.? The video on the Harvey web page shows the guy pushing the guard ¡°away¡± from his operator position instead of pulling it towards him. ? -Aaron ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Wurster
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 9:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Overarm saw (crown) guard ? I have the Harvey guard that Aaron linked to mounted to my Hammer K3.? It's really well made and works fairly well.? Like all / most of these, the collection when trimming an edge is poor.? I've messed around with ideas on how to improve that but didn't yet make anything that works really well.
While the guard pivots out the way easily, the direction of pivot is toward the operator, so it's unlikely that "falling" into the guard will cause any problems because the guard won't be able to move any further.? However as John pointed out for the Felder one, the lock on the Harvey is also at the pivot point, so I have to walk all the way around the saw to lock / unlock when needed.
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Re: Overarm saw (crown) guard
Dave, have a look at Scott and sargents site, recently?they sent me a flyer on overhead guards, they might have something interesting.?
I have the overhead guard on my KF700sp. As you probably know, I hate the changeover between the saw and the shaper. I bet money that Martin will never make a saw/shaper combo.
But I do like the overhead guard, I think every saw should have an overhead guard. I cannot watch people using their hand?to push the wood thru the spinning blade so closely.
I recently adjusted the tension on my overhead guard. My issue was the guard would not hold the position. Just remove 4 machine screws, you will know how to adjust the tension on the knob, very easy to do.
James Hi John,
After researching and asking around about the Felder overhead guard, many of your listed thoughts are why I¡¯ve decided to live without it. ????
Thx,
Wade
?This sounds like an interesting project.
I have the Felder overhead guard, and like it but would change a couple of things if I could. I¡¯ll throw these out just for ideas:
First, the Felder guard is hard to lift. I have to use two hands to adjust the clearance over the work piece. If I could make that easier to operate I would. I¡¯ve tried to adjust the tension in the guides but have not had success.
Second, sometimes the guard ?has to be moved completely out of the way. On my Felder that means walking around to the back of the machine and unscrewing a bolt. Putting it back in place means another trip around the machine. If there was a way to release the guard from the operator¡¯s normal position that would be really convenient.
Third, even though the guard itself is clear it is not easy to see the blade to check for blade height and such. Not sure how to fix that. If it was easier to lift the guard a bit that might not be so much of an issue.
Lastly, the dust collection is not great. Collection is through a part of the support arm, and between the small area and the sharp corners in the route the air flow is restricted.
Just some things to think about. I hope to see what you come up with!
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
-- Kindest Regards
Jonathan Samways
Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario y puede contener informaci¨®n privilegiada o confidencial. Si no es vd.el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la utilizaci¨®n, divulgaci¨®n y/o copia sin autorizaci¨®n est¨¢ prohibida en virtud de la legislaci¨®n vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma v¨ªa y proceda a su destrucci¨®n. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee and may contain information that is confidential and protected by professional privilege.If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copy or disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited by law. If this message has been received in error, please immediately notify us via e-mail and delete it.
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Re: Overarm saw (crown) guard
I have the Harvey guard that Aaron linked to mounted to my Hammer K3.? It's really well made and works fairly well.? Like all / most of these, the collection when trimming an edge is poor.? I've messed around with ideas on how to improve that but didn't yet make anything that works really well.
While the guard pivots out the way easily, the direction of pivot is toward the operator, so it's unlikely that "falling" into the guard will cause any problems because the guard won't be able to move any further.? However as John pointed out for the Felder one, the lock on the Harvey is also at the pivot point, so I have to walk all the way around the saw to lock / unlock when needed.
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Re: Saw controls on slider
The Felder level table saws (K500, K700, etc) all use low voltage wire that is ultimately connected to the saw chassis (i.e. ground).? The following thread explains a bit on how it's done: /g/felderownersgroup/topic/96460647#127960I think it was a 24V DC current fed from a coil.? The 24V "hot" wire is connected to one of the slider rails which has been isolated from the machine (i.e. ground).? The hot rail is connected to a 470ohm resistor (to provide load) and a contactor switch at the end of the table.? This is ultimately connected back to the slider table and ground which provides a complete circuit.? Once you push the "stop" button at the end of the slider, it breaks the contact in the circuit.? The control box inside the saw detects the broken circuit and shuts down the saw motors. -Aaron Inami
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Re: Overarm saw (crown) guard
I bought the Felder overhead guard.? Coming from a cabinet saw with the old Excalibur overhead guard/dust collector, the performance is much the same.? Overhead dust collection is good and it generally captures about 99% of the dust.? The exception is when you are trimming an edge, which usually throws a bunch of dust out onto the table anyways.? With a good enough dust collector, I can get enough suction where small pieces of wood are sucked up into the dust collector (even with a smaller 3" host between the hood and the duct drop).? I have also seen solutions like a 4" dust hose hanging from the ceiling that connects to a blade guard.? This should not be considered a "blade gaurd" unless the blade guard is firmly attached to the table.
In the U.K., you are likely best off getting the Felder guard (though I don't know the costs).? Here in the U.S., I have seen people using the old Excalibur guards on a slider as well as the Grizzly over-head guard (which is similar to the Excalibur).? Looking at all the option, the Harvey overhead dust collector seems to be very well engineered and is the most "Europe-like" in its design:
It it cheaper than the Felder guard (at least here in the U.S.).? One of the things I noticed about it is how easy it is to push away when you don't need it.? This is a double-edged sword, however, because if you somehow "fall into the guard", it may not protect you from the blade since it is so easy to "push away".? The Felder guard (once secured using the bolt) is not going to be "pushed away" if you somehow fall into it which makes it a better safety device.
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Re: Overarm saw (crown) guard
I have the overhead guard on my KF700sp. As you probably know, I hate the changeover between the saw and the shaper. I bet money that Martin will never make a saw/shaper combo.
But I do like the overhead guard, I think every saw should have an overhead guard. I cannot watch people using their hand?to push the wood thru the spinning blade so closely.
I recently adjusted the tension on my overhead guard. My issue was the guard would not hold the position. Just remove 4 machine screws, you will know how to adjust the tension on the knob, very easy to do.
James
Hi John,
After researching and asking around about the Felder overhead guard, many of your listed thoughts are why I¡¯ve decided to live without it. ????
Thx,
Wade
?This sounds like an interesting project.
I have the Felder overhead guard, and like it but would change a couple of things if I could. I¡¯ll throw these out just for ideas:
First, the Felder guard is hard to lift. I have to use two hands to adjust the clearance over the work piece. If I could make that easier to operate I would. I¡¯ve tried to adjust the tension in the guides but have not had success.
Second, sometimes the guard ?has to be moved completely out of the way. On my Felder that means walking around to the back of the machine and unscrewing a bolt. Putting it back in place means another trip around the machine. If there was a way to release the guard from the operator¡¯s normal position that would be really convenient.
Third, even though the guard itself is clear it is not easy to see the blade to check for blade height and such. Not sure how to fix that. If it was easier to lift the guard a bit that might not be so much of an issue.
Lastly, the dust collection is not great. Collection is through a part of the support arm, and between the small area and the sharp corners in the route the air flow is restricted.
Just some things to think about. I hope to see what you come up with!
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
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Re: Overarm saw (crown) guard
Before I sold my KF I had the??? for it and it worked fine. Dave Davies
Hi John,
After researching and asking around about the Felder overhead guard, many of your listed thoughts are why I¡¯ve decided to live without it. ????
Thx,
Wade
?This sounds like an interesting project.
I have the Felder overhead guard, and like it but would change a couple of things if I could. I¡¯ll throw these out just for ideas:
First, the Felder guard is hard to lift. I have to use two hands to adjust the clearance over the work piece. If I could make that easier to operate I would. I¡¯ve tried to adjust the tension in the guides but have not had success.
Second, sometimes the guard ?has to be moved completely out of the way. On my Felder that means walking around to the back of the machine and unscrewing a bolt. Putting it back in place means another trip around the machine. If there was a way to release the guard from the operator¡¯s normal position that would be really convenient.
Third, even though the guard itself is clear it is not easy to see the blade to check for blade height and such. Not sure how to fix that. If it was easier to lift the guard a bit that might not be so much of an issue.
Lastly, the dust collection is not great. Collection is through a part of the support arm, and between the small area and the sharp corners in the route the air flow is restricted.
Just some things to think about. I hope to see what you come up with!
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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Re: Overarm saw (crown) guard
Hi John,
After researching and asking around about the Felder overhead guard, many of your listed thoughts are why I¡¯ve decided to live without it. ????
Thx,
Wade
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On Mar 9, 2023, at 8:01 AM, John Hinman <jhinman1911@...> wrote:
?This sounds like an interesting project.
I have the Felder overhead guard, and like it but would change a couple of things if I could. I¡¯ll throw these out just for ideas:
First, the Felder guard is hard to lift. I have to use two hands to adjust the clearance over the work piece. If I could make that easier to operate I would. I¡¯ve tried to adjust the tension in the guides but have not had success.
Second, sometimes the guard ?has to be moved completely out of the way. On my Felder that means walking around to the back of the machine and unscrewing a bolt. Putting it back in place means another trip around the machine. If there was a way to release the guard from the operator¡¯s normal position that would be really convenient.
Third, even though the guard itself is clear it is not easy to see the blade to check for blade height and such. Not sure how to fix that. If it was easier to lift the guard a bit that might not be so much of an issue.
Lastly, the dust collection is not great. Collection is through a part of the support arm, and between the small area and the sharp corners in the route the air flow is restricted.
Just some things to think about. I hope to see what you come up with!
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
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Re: Overarm saw (crown) guard
John, that's a good list of things to think about.
The Suva design might answer several of the points, perhaps with a hinged side (held down by rare earth magnets) to be able to check blade height and alignment.
I considered using the support tube for extraction but, on balance, I'd prefer a separate rigid plastic waste pipe attached to the support tube, with a flexi to the guard.
Dave (in the UK)
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Re: Overarm saw (crown) guard
On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 03:18 PM, <tom@...> wrote:
the SUVA 91 guard
Thanks Tom, there are some very useful drawings and photos on that link but the price is over ?1,500 /1800USD which is "rather a lot" (British understatement) for a relatively simple device. Dave (in the UK)
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Re: Overarm saw (crown) guard
This sounds like an interesting project.
I have the Felder overhead guard, and like it but would change a couple of things if I could. I¡¯ll throw these out just for ideas:
First, the Felder guard is hard to lift. I have to use two hands to adjust the clearance over the work piece. If I could make that easier to operate I would. I¡¯ve tried to adjust the tension in the guides but have not had success.
Second, sometimes the guard ?has to be moved completely out of the way. On my Felder that means walking around to the back of the machine and unscrewing a bolt. Putting it back in place means another trip around the machine. If there was a way to release the guard from the operator¡¯s normal position that would be really convenient.
Third, even though the guard itself is clear it is not easy to see the blade to check for blade height and such. Not sure how to fix that. If it was easier to lift the guard a bit that might not be so much of an issue.
Lastly, the dust collection is not great. Collection is through a part of the support arm, and between the small area and the sharp corners in the route the air flow is restricted.
Just some things to think about. I hope to see what you come up with!
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
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Re: Martin cutter blocks - which one tersa or xylent type carbide insert?
#jointerplaner
Scallops with tersa are right angle Scallops with helical inserts are length wise or 90 to tersa ? Both have their advantages ?just depends on what u do.? In A hobby shop like mine traditional hand set 2 knife is more than fine. With proper jigs it¡¯s no big deal. If I had a choice tersa Mac,, Designing and building for 50 years
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On Mar 9, 2023, at 9:39 AM, Joe Jensen <joe@...> wrote:
? I upgraded a Powermatic 8¡± jointer to a Terminus (Teresa copy) and ran that for a couple of years. I found the Terminus knives to dull quickly but they were easy to change. ?I use hardwood exclusively and figured often and I still had the tear out issues. I then switched to a Byrd cutter head and I love the spiral carbide inserts. I now run a 12¡± SCMI jointer upgraded to a Byrd and I have a Byrd in my planer. If upgrading I¡¯d seriously consider the Hermance insert cutter head.? On Mar 9, 2023, at 7:46 AM, Marlowe McGraw <marlomcgraw@...> wrote:
? Jay,
I recently replaced the cutterhead of my Martin T41 with a Byrd Shelix head.? I'm very happy with the cut quality.? I have no doubt that the Martin cutterhead is as good or better than the Byrd. I haven't done a direct comparison with my tersa head Griggio planer (same diameter cutting circle), but expect it to tear out less in highly figured woods. One big benefit of insert head IMO is the smaller chip delivered to my collector barrel.?? Dealing with small nicks is fairly easily dealt with on tersa given knife shift. Using different knife sets for nasty material (like reclaimed) is a plus for Tersa. Enjoy your fine machines!
Marlowe McGraw? Hi, I am upgrading to Martin T45 and T54 machines looking for advice on cutterheads. Tersa or carbide insert???
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
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Re: Martin cutter blocks - which one tersa or xylent type carbide insert?
#jointerplaner
I upgraded a Powermatic 8¡± jointer to a Terminus (Teresa copy) and ran that for a couple of years. I found the Terminus knives to dull quickly but they were easy to change. ?I use hardwood exclusively and figured often and I still had the tear out issues. I then switched to a Byrd cutter head and I love the spiral carbide inserts. I now run a 12¡± SCMI jointer upgraded to a Byrd and I have a Byrd in my planer. If upgrading I¡¯d seriously consider the Hermance insert cutter head.?
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On Mar 9, 2023, at 7:46 AM, Marlowe McGraw <marlomcgraw@...> wrote:
? Jay,
I recently replaced the cutterhead of my Martin T41 with a Byrd Shelix head.? I'm very happy with the cut quality.? I have no doubt that the Martin cutterhead is as good or better than the Byrd. I haven't done a direct comparison with my tersa head Griggio planer (same diameter cutting circle), but expect it to tear out less in highly figured woods. One big benefit of insert head IMO is the smaller chip delivered to my collector barrel.?? Dealing with small nicks is fairly easily dealt with on tersa given knife shift. Using different knife sets for nasty material (like reclaimed) is a plus for Tersa. Enjoy your fine machines!
Marlowe McGraw? Hi, I am upgrading to Martin T45 and T54 machines looking for advice on cutterheads. Tersa or carbide insert???
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
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Re: Saw controls on slider
Thanks for the details David; I see where they are coming from.?
I'm wholly?in agreement about the hardwired stop function-in my mind this is a code requirement (or at least how I typically interpret most codes). They use the table as part of the circuit, correct? That would drive a low-VDC requirement for sure.
James
David,
I am pretty sure Joe was talking about chassis mounted on/off switches.?I shared in response to comment suggesting that high voltage control switches are no longer used.?Also to clarify that it is not just Dave¡¯s old BF6 but even the recent 2022 Hammer K3 uses line voltage on the On/Off switches. ?Is that a chassis-mounted switch or a remote on/off switch?? My comment was related to remote STOP switch.
It was Joe Slater who confirmed that his 2022 Hammer K3 Winner has On/Off circuit fed by line voltage. His post below.
?James, I can¡¯t quote you the specific safety directive.? But when I was consulting with Marin on the feature set for their T60/65 saws, this topic came up and their engineers were emphatic that the STOP function had to be hardwired, and if it were part of the sliding table or safety interlock switches, it also had to be low voltage due to European regulations.? That is the full extent of my knowledge, and it could well be predicated on the fact that the remote switches were part of a movable element of the machine (on the sliding table itself).
On Mar 8, 2023, at 4:02 PM, Jim Dayton < jd74914@...> wrote:
David Best,
[I¡¯ll preface this with the statement that I¡¯m not trying to be argumentative, just curious.]
What safety directive are you referencing re: only low voltage control circuits? I¡¯m not a consumer machine guy, but I¡¯ve not seen anything like that in the industrial stuff I¡¯ve worked on.?
Thanks, James FWIW, recall a post (I could be wrong but thought it was here) where hammer control switches were receiving 240vac. This was not a super old machine. ?Well: the diagram shipped with the machine says the controls are at mains potential and doesn't show a traffo, the contactors have 220V coils, and physical inspection shows that there isn't a traffo ... pretty conclusive in my book. It would be quite tricky to get a probe onto one side of a contactor and I don't feel like disturbing everything. The 500mA fuses have no bearing on the voltage, and are appropriate to protect from a coil failure.
On this machine (made in 1996) all the controls are on the body of the machine and the wiring is internal, so there is no violation of safety standards.
Taking the cover off had an unexpected benefit - I spotted that one of the caps is becoming rather obese and may soon exceed the ability of its casing to restrain its innards. A bit of preventative maintenance is in order.
Dave (in the UK)
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Re: Overarm saw (crown) guard
Hi Dave,?
If you can get the overarm frame in place, you'd be well positioned to take advantage of the SUVA 91 guard:??
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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Re: Martin cutter blocks - which one tersa or xylent type carbide insert?
#jointerplaner
Hi Jay, Lucky man to be in that position. I don't have any experience with Tersa, other than my moulder guy loves them on his Weinig. I think one big advantage is how quickly you can change knives, and you can have different steels for different materials. That said, I've been using both Byrd heads and the Oliver ITCH head for years. While the Tersa may give you a better finish right off the knives when new, the amount of service I get out of both of my carbide heads is incredible. I just ground the head in the Oliver for the first time in over 2 years. It was barely tearing out gnarly figured wood then. Outstanding given there are 6 furniture makers using it in my shop.
Jason
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: Martin cutter blocks - which one tersa or xylent type carbide insert?
#jointerplaner
Jay,
I recently replaced the cutterhead of my Martin T41 with a Byrd Shelix head.? I'm very happy with the cut quality.? I have no doubt that the Martin cutterhead is as good or better than the Byrd. I haven't done a direct comparison with my tersa head Griggio planer (same diameter cutting circle), but expect it to tear out less in highly figured woods. One big benefit of insert head IMO is the smaller chip delivered to my collector barrel.?? Dealing with small nicks is fairly easily dealt with on tersa given knife shift. Using different knife sets for nasty material (like reclaimed) is a plus for Tersa. Enjoy your fine machines!
Marlowe McGraw?
Hi, I am upgrading to Martin T45 and T54 machines looking for advice on cutterheads. Tersa or carbide insert???
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
|
Martin cutter blocks - which one tersa or xylent type carbide insert?
#jointerplaner
Hi, I am upgrading to Martin T45 and T54 machines looking for advice on cutterheads. Tersa or carbide insert???
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
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David P. Best
Joe Jensen
Tom Gensmer
Jason Holtz