Re: One dust collector to rule them all?
I'll throw another twist in this thread.? I? have a Model 90 Donaldson Torit cabinet collector connected to my wide belt.? Mine is and older version with hanging bag filters.? They make newer models with canisters.?
My other collection is done with cyclones.? ?Space intensive solution,? but works very well.?
Marlowe McGraw?
Tom, ? That's my thought as well.? My perspective is that I'll be buying a wide belt sander when I retire and set up my retirement shop and will be looking to replace my RL-160.? Trying to do the research now to know which dust collector to buy. Dave Davies
On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 9:13 AM < tom@...> wrote: Dave,
I suspect that the 0.1mg/m3 standard is the European equivalent to our HEPA standard in North America, thus the consolidation of machines to that standard. Pure conjecture on my part though¡..?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
--
Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
Re: One dust collector to rule them all?
Good discussion and points made. You know if Felder would put a cyclone in front of an RL that would be pretty sweet. Back to reality another manufacturer Belfab has similar models to Nederman with bags. The Belfab is significantly less $6,250, comes with a starter and smaller footprint.? The bin is a mobile cart that slides under the machine, 99% collection @ .5 micron. Made in Canada....?  Jay Bowen Cleveland
|
Re: The Wood Whisperer's first Felder toy
True.?
That is why Marc always uses router and table saw to make mortise and tenon in his project build video. Many many hobbyists do not even have Domino, Multi-Router, PantoRouter. Lots of people cannot afford the expensive high end tools.
Btw, I am surprised that Marc does not get the Felder D951 for free. Some famous youtube got free 4x8 CNC routers from American companies. I guess Felder is kind of cheap :)
James
??? I wonder if these youtube guys maybe can't get too far ahead of their audience?? I mean most of their viewers might not have the means, or connections to get sliders and high end tools. Having said that, I would still love to see Matthais Wandel make a wooden sliding table saw. Tom Ruth
|
Re: The Wood Whisperer's first Felder toy
??? I wonder if these youtube guys maybe can't get too far ahead of their audience?? I mean most of their viewers might not have the means, or connections to get sliders and high end tools. Having said that, I would still love to see Matthais Wandel make a wooden sliding table saw. Tom Ruth
|
Re: One dust collector to rule them all?
Tom, ? That's my thought as well.? My perspective is that I'll be buying a wide belt sander when I retire and set up my retirement shop and will be looking to replace my RL-160.? Trying to do the research now to know which dust collector to buy. Dave Davies
On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 9:13 AM < tom@...> wrote: Dave,
I suspect that the 0.1mg/m3 standard is the European equivalent to our HEPA standard in North America, thus the consolidation of machines to that standard. Pure conjecture on my part though¡..?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
Re: One dust collector to rule them all?
Dave,
I suspect that the 0.1mg/m3 standard is the European equivalent to our HEPA standard in North America, thus the consolidation of machines to that standard. Pure conjecture on my part though¡..?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: One dust collector to rule them all?
Dave,
If I understand correctly you are talking about the pleated filter in a cylindrical form where pleats are tighter on the inside than the outside.
Again correct me if wrong, this aspect should not affect most of us using pleated filters in RL dust collectors.
Just throwing it out in case some readers get concerned or draw conclusions that are not relevant to their collectors.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 7, 2022, at 9:41 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote: ?
I've no dog in this fight but a couple of things to remember.? The bags listed are Beane bags.?
Those are good bags and allow for a less surface area needed than some others.? There are other bags with higher small particle efficiency.? ?They sometimes need to be oversized to compensate for the tight weave needed to trap the small stuff.? Whether a filter
is HEPA, MERV 14 or 15, or something else is less important in my world than how easily it can be cleaned and how much cfm it will pass at a given pressure.? The air from the bags isn't as likely to kill your lungs as is the envelope of dust that doesn't make
it to the collector fast enough to avoid you breathing some of it.? A filter that slowly becomes plugged enough to reduce the cfm at the machine is something you don't notice until you cough.? Cartridges are used for fine dust but most were originally designed
as outside to inside.? The dust is trapped outside the filter where the pleats are spread and blown from the inside to release the dust and drop it down or shaken to do the same thing.? The inside to outside filters used often now are more problematic but
the collector is less expensive to produce.
Lots to consider but don't forget that minimizing that dust envelope around the machine when the
filters are seasoned but not clean is very important.? If you set a Dylos air monitor close to a machine when you run it you will be shocked at how quickly the numbers go from 50 to-several thousand.??
Dave
I have been looking into the Nederman myself one thing I wanted to know was the filter rating which is 90% @ 2 microns but 30% capture @ .5 microns, decibel rating is 70, no remote start, wired starter from Nederman is another $1,000 so a 5HP unit would
be $11,000 all in. Cyclones are MERV15 particle capture for .3-1micron@85%, have a remote start included but 80-95dB loud as heck, 40% the cost of the Nederman. RL160 70dB rating, wired remote start with machine turn on and delayed shutoff, 110g dust bin cost
sits between the cyclones and Nederman. Felder states "0.1 mg/m?" for filtration efficiency not sure how that translates to particle size.
Filtration curve attached.
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
|
Re: Felder bf6-31 table top alignment?
Adam? These are broad brush strokes! The start reference point on your unit is the cutterhead. That needs to be 8/10 of mm below lip of table side to side . +-1/10 mm Than adjust the infeed table co plane with out feed hinge side first . Worry about knives latter? Know you can adjust saw table? Than slider and shaper, All the moving will through it out of wack . Mac,,, ? Designing and building for 50 years
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 7, 2022, at 7:15 AM, Adam Killion <akillion84@...> wrote:
?Thanks Greg,
I was hoping to avoid moving the jointer outfeed table but at this point it looks like that might be the way I need to go. I ended up need to move the saw table a little because the dovetail ways were not parallel with each other. Looks like it will be a little while till I can use this machine. If anyone else has any thoughts I am all ears.
Thanks again?
|
Re: One dust collector to rule them all?
Interesting that Felder's and ALKO's numbers are exactly the same...
?Felder 0.1mg/m3....I suspect this is a European standard for a dust collector to be certified as? a "clean" collector. Dave Davies
Jay,
The Nederman efficiency chart you attached states 1mg/m3 vs Felder 0.1mg/m3. ?I have been looking into the Nederman myself one thing I wanted to know was the filter rating which is 90% @ 2 microns but 30% capture @ .5 microns, decibel rating is 70, no remote start, wired starter from Nederman is another $1,000 so a 5HP unit would be $11,000 all in. Cyclones are MERV15 particle capture for .3-1micron@85%, have a remote start included but 80-95dB loud as heck, 40% the cost of the Nederman. RL160 70dB rating, wired remote start with machine turn on and delayed shutoff, 110g dust bin cost sits between the cyclones and Nederman. Felder states "0.1 mg/m?" for filtration efficiency not sure how that translates to particle size.
Filtration curve attached.
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
Re: One dust collector to rule them all?
I've no dog in this fight but a couple of things to remember.? The bags listed are Beane bags.?
Those are good bags and allow for a less surface area needed than some others.? There are other bags with higher small particle efficiency.? ?They sometimes need to be oversized to compensate for the tight weave needed to trap the small stuff.? Whether a filter
is HEPA, MERV 14 or 15, or something else is less important in my world than how easily it can be cleaned and how much cfm it will pass at a given pressure.? The air from the bags isn't as likely to kill your lungs as is the envelope of dust that doesn't make
it to the collector fast enough to avoid you breathing some of it.? A filter that slowly becomes plugged enough to reduce the cfm at the machine is something you don't notice until you cough.? Cartridges are used for fine dust but most were originally designed
as outside to inside.? The dust is trapped outside the filter where the pleats are spread and blown from the inside to release the dust and drop it down or shaken to do the same thing.? The inside to outside filters used often now are more problematic but
the collector is less expensive to produce.
Lots to consider but don't forget that minimizing that dust envelope around the machine when the
filters are seasoned but not clean is very important.? If you set a Dylos air monitor close to a machine when you run it you will be shocked at how quickly the numbers go from 50 to-several thousand.??
Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I have been looking into the Nederman myself one thing I wanted to know was the filter rating which is 90% @ 2 microns but 30% capture @ .5 microns, decibel rating is 70, no remote start, wired starter from Nederman is another $1,000 so a 5HP unit would
be $11,000 all in. Cyclones are MERV15 particle capture for .3-1micron@85%, have a remote start included but 80-95dB loud as heck, 40% the cost of the Nederman. RL160 70dB rating, wired remote start with machine turn on and delayed shutoff, 110g dust bin cost
sits between the cyclones and Nederman. Felder states "0.1 mg/m?" for filtration efficiency not sure how that translates to particle size.
Filtration curve attached.
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
|
Re: One dust collector to rule them all?
Jay,
The Nederman efficiency chart you attached states 1mg/m3 vs Felder 0.1mg/m3.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 7, 2022, at 9:22 AM, jbowen@... wrote: ?I have been looking into the Nederman myself one thing I wanted to know was the filter rating which is 90% @ 2 microns but 30% capture @ .5 microns, decibel rating is 70, no remote start, wired starter from Nederman is another $1,000 so a 5HP unit would be $11,000 all in. Cyclones are MERV15 particle capture for .3-1micron@85%, have a remote start included but 80-95dB loud as heck, 40% the cost of the Nederman. RL160 70dB rating, wired remote start with machine turn on and delayed shutoff, 110g dust bin cost sits between the cyclones and Nederman. Felder states "0.1 mg/m?" for filtration efficiency not sure how that translates to particle size.
Filtration curve attached.
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
|
Re: One dust collector to rule them all?
Just looked at the ALKO on Martin's site.? They don't mention particle size :
Air recirculation into the room is a crucial factor in the?clean air sector. This feed air is tilted by AL-KO extraction systems?down to below 0.1 mg/m3 residual dust content.
Dave Davies
On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 8:21 AM < jbowen@...> wrote: I have been looking into the Nederman myself one thing I wanted to know was the filter rating which is 90% @ 2 microns but 30% capture @ .5 microns, decibel rating is 70, no remote start, wired starter from Nederman is another $1,000 so a 5HP unit would be $11,000 all in. Cyclones are MERV15 particle capture for .3-1micron@85%, have a remote start included but 80-95dB loud as heck, 40% the cost of the Nederman. RL160 70dB rating, wired remote start with machine turn on and delayed shutoff, 110g dust bin cost sits between the cyclones and Nederman. Felder states "0.1 mg/m?" for filtration efficiency not sure how that translates to particle size.
Filtration curve attached.
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
Re: One dust collector to rule them all?
I have been looking into the Nederman myself one thing I wanted to know was the filter rating which is 90% @ 2 microns but 30% capture @ .5 microns, decibel rating is 70, no remote start, wired starter from Nederman is another $1,000 so a 5HP unit would be $11,000 all in. Cyclones are MERV15 particle capture for .3-1micron@85%, have a remote start included but 80-95dB loud as heck, 40% the cost of the Nederman. RL160 70dB rating, wired remote start with machine turn on and delayed shutoff, 110g dust bin cost sits between the cyclones and Nederman. Felder states "0.1 mg/m?" for filtration efficiency not sure how that translates to particle size.
Filtration curve attached.
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
|
Re: Opinions on Alpine Workshop?
Hi Brandon,?
I'd say that the April "Advanced Joinery" class has broad applicability for just about anyone planning on working in a shop environment, as Joe spends a lot of time on safe work practices. There's a lot of focus on mortise and tenon joinery, but part of that is a demonstration of how to perform the same operation on different machines. So, you'd make one set of tenons on a shaper, another set of tenons with a sliding saw and band saw, etc...?
I'm signed up for the "Tilt and Turn" class in May. While I don't have immediate plans to produce tilt/turn windows, many of the skills/techniques are adjacent to what I'm doing, so there's still a benefit for me to attend. I took the Entry Door class last year, and plan to circle back to it again in a few years. ?
Hope you enjoy a fun and informative time.
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Felder bf6-31 table top alignment?
Thanks Greg,
I was hoping to avoid moving the jointer outfeed table but at this point it looks like that might be the way I need to go. I ended up need to move the saw table a little because the dovetail ways were not parallel with each other. Looks like it will be a little while till I can use this machine. If anyone else has any thoughts I am all ears.
Thanks again?
|
Re: The Wood Whisperer's first Felder toy
Hey PK
When I heard Marc reference the Felder group, I immediately thought of Bill B¨¦langer, but it's only a guess!
It is nice to see somebody with a big following on YouTube singing Felder's praises.
Cheers
David
|
Re: How to achieve this surface finish?
Adam! That video was wonderful. I loved watching the various masters wield each of the tools. Just think how sharp the kanna blade has to be to achieve shavings that fine! Loved it. Thanks for sharing.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Thank you, Lucky. That is an excellent lead. The surface does indeed seem to have been created with either a chouna (Japanese adze) or a related tool. (Note that the photos are all of the same door, just taken from different distances.)
Based on your prompt I found this that shows the various Japanese milling techniques and the associated tools.?
Now I just need to find someone locally who can produce this effect on a thousand sf of paneling... ???¡á?
/afb
|
Re: How to achieve this surface finish?
The curved bottom Makita?1002BA planer is also used to create adze-like surfaces.
Here's just a few seconds of a famous Japanese artist who's done some interesting wood finishes:
Here's using it to more directly simulate adze on timber-framed building.
https://youtu.be/slKXdFdSLk4?t=76
|
Re: How to achieve this surface finish?
Thank you, Lucky. That is an excellent lead. The surface does indeed seem to have been created with either a chouna (Japanese adze) or a related tool. (Note that the photos are all of the same door, just taken from different distances.)
Based on your prompt I found this that shows the various Japanese milling techniques and the associated tools.?
Now I just need to find someone locally who can produce this effect on a thousand sf of paneling... ???¡á?
/afb
|
Re: The Wood Whisperer's first Felder toy
I remember when he first posted to the old Festool FOG. "Hey, I'm making some videos, check them out". Man, that was a long time ago. He sure made a lot of progress after that.?
|
Tom Gensmer
imran
David Luckensmeyer