Craig,
From posts here some CF series multi function machines share start/run caps. I am not sure about your vintage machine.
If you can tell that J/P motor has it¡¯s own caps separate from saw motor than that would be my first thing to check/replace.
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 24, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Craig.roberts via groups.io <Craig.roberts@...> wrote: ?Hi everyone I hope you can assist me?
I have not used my jointer planer for some time and my workshop is quite cold.
When I try start my jointer planer by holding in the start button (its single phase) the cutter block turns but does not get up to speed (even after 20sec)
any ideas what the problem may be?
I have tried to grease the cutter block bearings
perhaps it needs a strip down clean and proper greasing
would appreciate any suggestions
Ive got a garden gate to build and need the planer functional asap
rest of the machine (saw etc) is working perfectly
thanks in advance?
Craig
|
Hi everyone I hope you can assist me?
I have not used my jointer planer for some time and my workshop is quite cold.
When I try start my jointer planer by holding in the start button (its single phase) the cutter block turns but does not get up to speed (even after 20sec)
any ideas what the problem may be?
I have tried to grease the cutter block bearings
perhaps it needs a strip down clean and proper greasing
would appreciate any suggestions
Ive got a garden gate to build and need the planer functional asap
rest of the machine (saw etc) is working perfectly
thanks in advance?
Craig
|
Re: PF Wheel Durometer for Shaper and Jointer?
Oh! if Corey at Axiom is right, they have moved on to Yellow for 60 duro. Must be a change for spring of 2021 collection.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 24, 2021, at 7:49 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote: ? Very Funny. Did you edit that?
On Mar 24, 2021, at 7:41 AM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? Imran:
I stopped using Western Roller because they have their own proprietary hubs that limit tire width. They do not recover OEM hubs. ?Axion will recover anything. ?I specify durometer by color. ?Dark blue is the hardest, burgundy in the middle, tan is softer. ?Mauve is about right for the jointer. ? David Best - via mobile phone? ? Lucky, David or anyone else,
No disagreement on technique. Do either of you have a recommendation on durometer for PF wheels?
60 has been recommended here but wanted to get clarification if 60 is good for both shaper and jointer?
BTW, Western roller offers?40, 50, 60, 70, 75, 85 and 95 Duro Shore A
Imran ? I¡¯m with Lucky on this. ?For rough material, I first lay it on the sliding table of the saw, and check the amount of twist and bow. ?If the twist is under 3mm and the board lays flat, I set the jointer to 3+mm depth of cut, set the feeder over the outfeed table and adjust the height for 4mm of expected upward wheel displacement, and let it rip. ?Say the rough material is 25mm, I set the feeder tires 18-19mm above the outfeed table, infeed table to 3mm DOC. ?One pass, plenty of downward force on the outfeed table, and the board is ready for the thicknesser. ?Light forces with multiple shallow passes isn¡¯t going to get the surface flat. ?If the material has more than 3mm twist, I cut it into shorter pieces or work off the high corners with a scrub plane first. ?The outfeed table has to be slick - I use Waxlit on top of Renaissance wax on the tables. ? This is one reason I optioned my Dual 51 with a 13HP motor, and I¡¯ve done lots of 16¡± wide cherry in this manner. ? For thicker rough material (12/4 Oak for instance), I pay equal attention to bow and twist, and if the bow is substantial, with convex side down, bring down thickness at both ends, stopping part way through, then doing end-for-end swap, until the bow is less than 2mm or so, then revert to the process mentioned above.
On Mar 21, 2021, at 2:42 PM, David Luckensmeyer < dhluckens@...> wrote:
Hi Imran: There is a common misperception that ¡°minimum down force¡± is desirable for a jointer. I think this is wrong thinking arising from users who take many light passes to flatten a board. In such a scenario, where a light pass is taken that does not flatten a board all-at-once, the board being machined would not rest flat against the outfeed table, and therefore be forced flat under the feeder, only to spring back afterwards. This leads to frustrating results. Best practice for jointer machinists, using a feeder, is to set the depth of cut to flatten the board all-at-once, to approx 75% of the board¡¯s surface. This achieves a flat board very quickly, and good down pressure can be used with the feeder. This is safer (no slip) and the results are superior (i.e. flat, consistent results). For scenarios where the jointer¡¯s capacity is not up to the job (e.g. minimal horsepower, or the cup/bow/twist is beyond the jointer¡¯s maximum depth of cut), then the offending board should be machined partially by hand, by moving the feeder aside (or working beside the feeder if there¡¯s space) and machining part way along the ends (twist or bow), or pushing the board all the way through (cup ¡ª concave side down). The former is done easily by pushing a board through say 1/4 to 1/3 of the way, then lifting the board off the cutterhead, swapping end for end, and machining 1/4 to 1/3 of the other end, to eliminate most of the twist or bow. The latter is easy enough to do, even for large boards, because most of the board is not engaged in the cut (only the outer edges of the cupped board), and so can be pushed through manually. This process prepares the worst boards to a ¡°flatness¡± that allows the feeder to be used for that single, final feeder pass, which gets the board flat. By the way, short boards, say 600mm or shorter, which cannot be flattened all-at-once, should be discarded from the shop and project, or they should be partially flattened by hand (scrub plane). Short boards should not be partially machined by hand in the above manner, as the operator is working too close to the cutter head. User discretion required here. Minimum down force is irrelevant. Warm regards, David Lucky On 21 Mar 2021, at 11:21 pm, imranindiana via <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?Apparently, a modification is offered by Western Roller where a belt can be installed on PF - pic from their website
Would this work better on PF for jointer where one wants minimum down force?
Imran
On Mar 21, 2021, at 9:01 AM, imranindiana via <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?There are lots of msgs here and it appears durometer 60 is the most common recommendation. However, I saw durometer 50 is also available.
I need to replace wheels on shaper and jointer PF. Both have factory wheels. What is the durometer recommendation?
Axiom Industries and Western Roller Corp are the 2 places recommended.
If we have a sort on consensus, I can create a hashtag msg with details so it is easy to find.
Imran
<image0.jpeg>
|
Re: PF Wheel Durometer for Shaper and Jointer?
Very Funny. Did you edit that?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 24, 2021, at 7:41 AM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote: ? Imran:
I stopped using Western Roller because they have their own proprietary hubs that limit tire width. They do not recover OEM hubs. ?Axion will recover anything. ?I specify durometer by color. ?Dark blue is the hardest, burgundy in the middle, tan is softer. ?Mauve is about right for the jointer. ? David Best - via mobile phone? ? Lucky, David or anyone else,
No disagreement on technique. Do either of you have a recommendation on durometer for PF wheels?
60 has been recommended here but wanted to get clarification if 60 is good for both shaper and jointer?
BTW, Western roller offers?40, 50, 60, 70, 75, 85 and 95 Duro Shore A
Imran ? I¡¯m with Lucky on this. ?For rough material, I first lay it on the sliding table of the saw, and check the amount of twist and bow. ?If the twist is under 3mm and the board lays flat, I set the jointer to 3+mm depth of cut, set the feeder over the outfeed table and adjust the height for 4mm of expected upward wheel displacement, and let it rip. ?Say the rough material is 25mm, I set the feeder tires 18-19mm above the outfeed table, infeed table to 3mm DOC. ?One pass, plenty of downward force on the outfeed table, and the board is ready for the thicknesser. ?Light forces with multiple shallow passes isn¡¯t going to get the surface flat. ?If the material has more than 3mm twist, I cut it into shorter pieces or work off the high corners with a scrub plane first. ?The outfeed table has to be slick - I use Waxlit on top of Renaissance wax on the tables. ? This is one reason I optioned my Dual 51 with a 13HP motor, and I¡¯ve done lots of 16¡± wide cherry in this manner. ? For thicker rough material (12/4 Oak for instance), I pay equal attention to bow and twist, and if the bow is substantial, with convex side down, bring down thickness at both ends, stopping part way through, then doing end-for-end swap, until the bow is less than 2mm or so, then revert to the process mentioned above.
On Mar 21, 2021, at 2:42 PM, David Luckensmeyer < dhluckens@...> wrote:
Hi Imran: There is a common misperception that ¡°minimum down force¡± is desirable for a jointer. I think this is wrong thinking arising from users who take many light passes to flatten a board. In such a scenario, where a light pass is taken that does not flatten a board all-at-once, the board being machined would not rest flat against the outfeed table, and therefore be forced flat under the feeder, only to spring back afterwards. This leads to frustrating results. Best practice for jointer machinists, using a feeder, is to set the depth of cut to flatten the board all-at-once, to approx 75% of the board¡¯s surface. This achieves a flat board very quickly, and good down pressure can be used with the feeder. This is safer (no slip) and the results are superior (i.e. flat, consistent results). For scenarios where the jointer¡¯s capacity is not up to the job (e.g. minimal horsepower, or the cup/bow/twist is beyond the jointer¡¯s maximum depth of cut), then the offending board should be machined partially by hand, by moving the feeder aside (or working beside the feeder if there¡¯s space) and machining part way along the ends (twist or bow), or pushing the board all the way through (cup ¡ª concave side down). The former is done easily by pushing a board through say 1/4 to 1/3 of the way, then lifting the board off the cutterhead, swapping end for end, and machining 1/4 to 1/3 of the other end, to eliminate most of the twist or bow. The latter is easy enough to do, even for large boards, because most of the board is not engaged in the cut (only the outer edges of the cupped board), and so can be pushed through manually. This process prepares the worst boards to a ¡°flatness¡± that allows the feeder to be used for that single, final feeder pass, which gets the board flat. By the way, short boards, say 600mm or shorter, which cannot be flattened all-at-once, should be discarded from the shop and project, or they should be partially flattened by hand (scrub plane). Short boards should not be partially machined by hand in the above manner, as the operator is working too close to the cutter head. User discretion required here. Minimum down force is irrelevant. Warm regards, David Lucky On 21 Mar 2021, at 11:21 pm, imranindiana via <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?Apparently, a modification is offered by Western Roller where a belt can be installed on PF - pic from their website
Would this work better on PF for jointer where one wants minimum down force?
Imran
On Mar 21, 2021, at 9:01 AM, imranindiana via <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?There are lots of msgs here and it appears durometer 60 is the most common recommendation. However, I saw durometer 50 is also available.
I need to replace wheels on shaper and jointer PF. Both have factory wheels. What is the durometer recommendation?
Axiom Industries and Western Roller Corp are the 2 places recommended.
If we have a sort on consensus, I can create a hashtag msg with details so it is easy to find.
Imran
<image0.jpeg>
|
Re: PF Wheel Durometer for Shaper and Jointer?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I stopped using Western Roller because they have their own proprietary hubs that limit tire width. They do not recover OEM hubs. ?Axion will recover anything. ?I specify durometer by color. ?Dark blue is the hardest, burgundy in the middle, tan is softer. ?Mauve is about right for the jointer. ? David Best - via mobile phone? ? Lucky, David or anyone else,
No disagreement on technique. Do either of you have a recommendation on durometer for PF wheels?
60 has been recommended here but wanted to get clarification if 60 is good for both shaper and jointer?
BTW, Western roller offers?40, 50, 60, 70, 75, 85 and 95 Duro Shore A
Imran ? I¡¯m with Lucky on this. ?For rough material, I first lay it on the sliding table of the saw, and check the amount of twist and bow. ?If the twist is under 3mm and the board lays flat, I set the jointer to 3+mm depth of cut, set the feeder over the outfeed table and adjust the height for 4mm of expected upward wheel displacement, and let it rip. ?Say the rough material is 25mm, I set the feeder tires 18-19mm above the outfeed table, infeed table to 3mm DOC. ?One pass, plenty of downward force on the outfeed table, and the board is ready for the thicknesser. ?Light forces with multiple shallow passes isn¡¯t going to get the surface flat. ?If the material has more than 3mm twist, I cut it into shorter pieces or work off the high corners with a scrub plane first. ?The outfeed table has to be slick - I use Waxlit on top of Renaissance wax on the tables. ? This is one reason I optioned my Dual 51 with a 13HP motor, and I¡¯ve done lots of 16¡± wide cherry in this manner. ? For thicker rough material (12/4 Oak for instance), I pay equal attention to bow and twist, and if the bow is substantial, with convex side down, bring down thickness at both ends, stopping part way through, then doing end-for-end swap, until the bow is less than 2mm or so, then revert to the process mentioned above.
On Mar 21, 2021, at 2:42 PM, David Luckensmeyer < dhluckens@...> wrote:
Hi Imran: There is a common misperception that ¡°minimum down force¡± is desirable for a jointer. I think this is wrong thinking arising from users who take many light passes to flatten a board. In such a scenario, where a light pass is taken that does not flatten a board all-at-once, the board being machined would not rest flat against the outfeed table, and therefore be forced flat under the feeder, only to spring back afterwards. This leads to frustrating results. Best practice for jointer machinists, using a feeder, is to set the depth of cut to flatten the board all-at-once, to approx 75% of the board¡¯s surface. This achieves a flat board very quickly, and good down pressure can be used with the feeder. This is safer (no slip) and the results are superior (i.e. flat, consistent results). For scenarios where the jointer¡¯s capacity is not up to the job (e.g. minimal horsepower, or the cup/bow/twist is beyond the jointer¡¯s maximum depth of cut), then the offending board should be machined partially by hand, by moving the feeder aside (or working beside the feeder if there¡¯s space) and machining part way along the ends (twist or bow), or pushing the board all the way through (cup ¡ª concave side down). The former is done easily by pushing a board through say 1/4 to 1/3 of the way, then lifting the board off the cutterhead, swapping end for end, and machining 1/4 to 1/3 of the other end, to eliminate most of the twist or bow. The latter is easy enough to do, even for large boards, because most of the board is not engaged in the cut (only the outer edges of the cupped board), and so can be pushed through manually. This process prepares the worst boards to a ¡°flatness¡± that allows the feeder to be used for that single, final feeder pass, which gets the board flat. By the way, short boards, say 600mm or shorter, which cannot be flattened all-at-once, should be discarded from the shop and project, or they should be partially flattened by hand (scrub plane). Short boards should not be partially machined by hand in the above manner, as the operator is working too close to the cutter head. User discretion required here. Minimum down force is irrelevant. Warm regards, David Lucky On 21 Mar 2021, at 11:21 pm, imranindiana via <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?Apparently, a modification is offered by Western Roller where a belt can be installed on PF - pic from their website
Would this work better on PF for jointer where one wants minimum down force?
Imran
On Mar 21, 2021, at 9:01 AM, imranindiana via <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?There are lots of msgs here and it appears durometer 60 is the most common recommendation. However, I saw durometer 50 is also available.
I need to replace wheels on shaper and jointer PF. Both have factory wheels. What is the durometer recommendation?
Axiom Industries and Western Roller Corp are the 2 places recommended.
If we have a sort on consensus, I can create a hashtag msg with details so it is easy to find.
Imran
<image0.jpeg>
|
Hey, something up there still works ?
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 23, 2021, at 8:58 PM, Jeff <onehpbmw@...> wrote: ? 493 pounds.? 500 is close enough ;-) On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 8:52 PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: I am going to place my bandsaw on skids. I can look it up but it likely weighs ~500# - Laguna LT16SEC.
Any reason I should not use SPF lumber for this? BTW, this stuff is couple of yrs old if not older. I can check for moisture as well.
Imran
|
493 pounds.? 500 is close enough ;-)
On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 8:52 PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: I am going to place my bandsaw on skids. I can look it up but it likely weighs ~500# - Laguna LT16SEC.
Any reason I should not use SPF lumber for this? BTW, this stuff is couple of yrs old if not older. I can check for moisture as well.
Imran
|
I am going to place my bandsaw on skids. I can look it up but it likely weighs ~500# - Laguna LT16SEC.
Any reason I should not use SPF lumber for this? BTW, this stuff is couple of yrs old if not older. I can check for moisture as well.
Imran
|
Nice! ?Here¡¯s my version of a mobile base for the AD741. In a small garage and need more freedom in moving it.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 23, 2021, at 5:11 AM, Mike Spray <Mike@...> wrote:
? Awesome.? Congratulations.? Memories too.? I remember building descending platforms (vs ramps) to use rented pallet jack to get my kf700 from pallet to garage floor. On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 8:28 AM Andrew Brant < andrew@...> wrote: Hi! I ordered an AD741 last september from the felder office in Sacramento, and it¡¯s finally home! It hasn¡¯t been an easy year to get anything in a pallet from europe but it made it.?
I¡¯ve been woodworking for about ten years, mostly on the nights and weekends while i had a corporate day job in film production in silicon valley, and I would pay my SF rent by making stuff with hand tools in my backyard woodshed. Quit the job and followed my passion and went to the Krenov School in fort bragg. So now i¡¯m putting together my own shop and doing what i was doing full time.?
wanted to write about the experience so far, and in case i need any help from here! Smooth sailing.
Delivery was great, got it in my covered trailer easily on a forklift straight in. I bought two thousand pound straps, 8 - 2x4 x 24¡±, 8- ?2x4 x 8ft, and had six or so 3/4, 1/2, and 1/4 4ft x4ft squares before delivery.?
i screwed 8 of the short 2x4s around the base kf
the pallet, around each corner, so it wasn¡¯t going anywhere on the drive back over the mountains to the coast. Straps weren¡¯t necessary at all but maybe they helped?
Got it home and called a local mover who got it into the lift gate and down the ground with pallet jacks, and then it took two full size ones to move it into the garage.?
Then, by myself I basically extended the pallet as much as I made a ramp, move it all the way over, kicked the pallet out, and seeing it was more than stable, i unscrewed 2x4¡¯s and knocked them out slowly with a sledgehammer. The machine didn¡¯t move at all while i did this, and i had stop blocks down so it wouldn¡¯t fall more than half an or so at a time. I¡¯d knock a few out, level it, move a piece of plywood from one end to the other and just slowly moved it back and forth about four times, like walking a switchback down a steep mountain trail. Very slow and easy, until it was down on the floor.?
The balance on a narrow, short pallet jack from globe isn¡¯t great but it works. I found it more tippy on the ground when i want to turn it at too sharp an angle. Straight back and forth is fine.?
I¡¯m going to get it wired up and turned on today, and the fence installed. Everything is ready for it, just have to put the plug end on. Super excited to have this machine finally!
<0DB23D2D-A3E4-40BC-9670-CA31E480AFB3.jpeg> <9A524D00-F8D1-4906-8255-006561C19739.jpeg> <D4236DCC-738B-484D-860C-D6E0CC73388D.jpeg> <3CC0CF7C-646A-4CDF-ADB9-0C2ADEC41A12.jpeg> <493DC3CB-F783-44D4-9F05-83B1B1C3F2C8.jpeg> <BBA38E46-76DE-44F5-9B3C-BB76D7E0287C.jpeg> <B27F4751-098F-45E9-82F4-19C0D85339B9.jpeg> <9CF3AA82-33EB-406A-B797-D2F4F305A2DA.jpeg> <DDE01571-7137-4B4E-86B7-19145D144467.jpeg> <DEE8C463-766D-4F8A-9F50-549D333615F9.jpeg> <0D9540D6-72F3-4BA6-9D87-D5FA5B43B8FD.jpeg> <0D105791-B93F-4B2C-8772-87E2F1340351.jpeg> <7FE8FB68-C351-4758-90F8-FE8EF03636E4.jpeg> <63EF7057-EBA1-4066-AC43-B4DFEA326A86.jpeg> <AC2E179E-68E2-4EAB-85EA-0992249A2717.jpeg> <8623753F-6F3F-49ED-86B4-849847889145.jpeg> <58742F07-879B-4E48-AD4A-A14222770A2C.jpeg> <A2944D93-A8C4-44FB-94F2-3B490407B903.jpeg>
|
Keith,
Thanks for the update. Great news. As we hypothesized the racket likely came from chain drive for the feed rollers.
Happy woodworking.
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 23, 2021, at 8:22 PM, keith turner <keithturner01@...> wrote: ?
Hi Imran
? Installed new capacitors and everything works fin and quiet,
thanks?for the help .?
Keith
Keith,
That can explain the noise. Hopefully, all will be well with new caps. Sorry for dragging on, but almost 30 yrs of design work inherently included root cause analysis. I miss work sometimes and this is therapeutic.
Imran
On Mar 14, 2021, at 10:46 PM, keith turner <keithturner01@...> wrote:
?
Hi Imran,
? ? ? ? It is a chain drive for the infeed rollers but they seem o.k. I will let you know how it turns out when I have installed the caps
Keith
Keith,
In that case be careful running after cap install. Never heard of any racket with bad caps. The motor (and cutterhead) could oscillate but usually that is not a racket. Do you have chain for feed rollers? I can see that making noise if motor
was oscillating. I assume you don¡¯t have a separate motor for feed rollers and it is one of those with urethane covered wheel. Good luck.
Imran
On Mar 14, 2021, at 5:11 PM, keith turner <keithturner01@...> wrote:
?
Thanks?Imran, yes the racket was definitely loader than a hum.
Keith?
Keith,
Glad that was easy to figure out. Was the racket more like a loud hum?
Either way if the machine is old go ahead and replace both caps. You can look for them at following. I recently got in¡¯s from Mouser for my bandsaw.
Imran
On Mar 14, 2021, at 4:37 PM, keith turner <keithturner01@...> wrote:
?
Thank you
Keith
I know others have bought replacements of Amazon. You need to look at the writing on the casing and get the appropriate one.. a search through the posts here might come up with the values. My machines are three phase
so I don¡¯t have the caps. Any local motor rewinding shop or electronics supply house should be able to supply replacements also.
Hi Brian
?I suspect you are right ,I started up the motor and let it get to full speed. then engaged the infeed , this ( I assume it's a capacitor) started smoking then popped out of the casing . If it is a capacitor any idea where I can pick one up ,I live in Canada
Keith
?
I suspect he has lost one or both of his capacitors. Did you hold the start button in until the motors reach full speed?
Keith,
The cutterhead would spin for a long while if the brake is not working. With brake it stops in ~8 sec give or take a few seconds. There is also a hum when brake is working. If properly calibrated the hum should stop same time as cutterhead
comes to a stop or fairly quickly afterwards but not before. There is nothing wrong if the hum continues for short time afterwards as long as machine is not restarted.
I have not thought about brake function with no load but imagine it would stop quickly not having to fight the moment of a heavy spinning cutterhead. I cannot imagine a reason for it to not work in this scenario.
There has been a report of brake board failure that resulted in overheating of motor but in your case the motor runs fine in no load condition. Have you run it for a longer duration with no load? I imagine if it is brake board causing
the overheating, it might take longer to shutdown under no load.
Sorry, that is all I can think off. Hopefully, someone else can offer better guidance. In case of overheating, I personally would check the current motor is pulling to rule out the motor.
Imran?
?
Hi Imran
? ? ? It is 230v single phase, I do not know how to tell if the electric brake is working.
If I disengage the infeed drive , the motor will work just sometimes, but if I remove the drive belt from the pulley the motor works every time
Keith
Keith,
Not sure what is happening but few pieces of info may help. Single phase or 3 phase? Is electric brake working, load or no load?
Imran
?My planer /jointer has just developed a problem.
When I start the machine up the head starts to turn then stalls and starts a growling noise (for want of a better word) ,the motor overheats and cuts out.
I have taken the drive belt off and the motor works fine, I checked the head and it seems fine, bearings turn freely and no play. When I reinstall the drive belt stalls again. i.e motor do not seem to work under load, Any ideas Keith
<thumbnail_image1 (2).jpg>
|
Re: PF Wheel Durometer for Shaper and Jointer?
I could see the angled cutter head working great on chip out prone material, I¡¯ve skewed boards across my jointer all the time. The the idea that the angled head solves the twist in the board isn¡¯t going to work.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 23, 2021, at 1:54 PM, mark thomas < murkyd@...> wrote:
I just sent for amusement value, not an endorsement. The video is kind of nonsense of course, but it¡¯s an interesting question if the angled cutter head has value.
|
Re: Northfield 32" Bandsaw
Dave that makes good sense.? Woodmizer tension there saw I¡¯d say average of 3 to 5 thousand pounds. Designing and building for 50 years
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 23, 2021, at 11:33 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
The bimetal Wood mizer, Woodslicer, etc, blades run at lower tension so the wider band compensates for that.? Less twist until it dulls.? Dave
I always thought it was because the wider the blade the less flex. Think of a 2 foot wide blade on a 2 foot wheel.?
But I could be wrong, waiting to hear.
Bull B¨¦langer?
Mac, nobody has been able to explain why a wider blade is better for resawing.? Why the 1.5¡± instead of 1.25¡± or 1¡± ?
?
?
Joe ,
I run 1.5¡± woodmizer blades on my 36¡± oliver with Centauro power feed. They make to spec.
Bi mental I think and about 50.00 ea or there abouts . Woodmiser sharpens for maybe 15 or 20 bucks. Blades are good for 3 to 5 sharpening. I am going to be resawing 20¡¯ clear quarter sawn Douglas Fir 2x6 in a week or two for paneling.
mac,,,
?
martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-332-2330?cell
Designing and building for 50 years
?
FWIW, I have sawed 1/16¡± thick veneer on my LT16SEC with Laguna 1¡± resaw king. It was 2x12 Cypress and I just did it to check the resaw king blade. I was blown away with uniformity, maybe I am easily amused. I am sure my bandsaw is no
where close to suggested tension.
?
Blade breakage may be a point.? The only time I broke a big blade was when it was rubbing a lot on the ceramic rear rub disk with Laguna guides.
?
?
Joe, I can't speak to the larger blade.? The tension arguments go on forever.? My experience is not that different than yours although I see an improvement- slight but still an improvement -
with 25K vs lower.? Mainly when using the full height of the resaw and also to keep the blade from moving into the rear bearing.? I try to keep the blade from heating up from rubbing the bearing.? I don't have any scientific evidence, I just know I haven't
broken any blades at 25K and I broke Trimaster blades at lower tension.? Dave
I spoke with people at both Tannewitz and Northfield on these saws.? Interestingly both unprompted offered that the internet
groups obsession with 25,000 psi was flat out wrong.? The Northfield guy said that¡¯s a spec for horizontal steel cutting bandsaws and irrelevant for wood saws.? I being an engineer have a Starrett Bandsaw tension gauge so I¡¯ve been tensioning with that for
years.? With my Felder FB540 I can¡¯t get the 1¡± carbide blade over about 20,000 psi.? that said, it cuts perfectly and it always has.? I played with it at 15,000 and 20,000 and I notice no difference.? Having been at this for 40 years I never knew about tension
gauges and always tensioned until the blade was ¡°just taut enough¡±.? That always worked unless the blade was dull or you feed the stock too fast.?
?
Is there a big benefit of a 1 ?¡± blade over a 1¡± blade over a ?¡± blade for sawing veneers?
?
?
What you are describing matches what I have been told by others who have compared NF with Tanny or Oliver.? The tension spring and mechanism might have more to do with
which to use for resawing than the castings but only using each will tell the true story.? I would avoid the 1.25" Carbide blade on either.? The .035" band on the 3/4 or 1" will be easier to tension than the .042 on the 1 1/4.? My Olivers tension the 1" but
I have no experience with the thicker band.? Dave
Also, the owner I bought from purchased used in 2006. He restored it including having Northfield true and balance the wheels and put on new tires.? New pads on the carter guides, etc.? Owner never put it in service
and it sat on a pallet unused since 2006.? Fresh paint too.? Should just needs power.
|
Hi Imran
? Installed new capacitors and everything works fin and quiet,
thanks?for the help .?
Keith
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Keith,
That can explain the noise. Hopefully, all will be well with new caps. Sorry for dragging on, but almost 30 yrs of design work inherently included root cause analysis. I miss work sometimes and this is therapeutic.
Imran
On Mar 14, 2021, at 10:46 PM, keith turner <keithturner01@...> wrote:
?
Hi Imran,
? ? ? ? It is a chain drive for the infeed rollers but they seem o.k. I will let you know how it turns out when I have installed the caps
Keith
Keith,
In that case be careful running after cap install. Never heard of any racket with bad caps. The motor (and cutterhead) could oscillate but usually that is not a racket. Do you have chain for feed rollers? I can see that making noise if motor
was oscillating. I assume you don¡¯t have a separate motor for feed rollers and it is one of those with urethane covered wheel. Good luck.
Imran
On Mar 14, 2021, at 5:11 PM, keith turner <keithturner01@...> wrote:
?
Thanks?Imran, yes the racket was definitely loader than a hum.
Keith?
Keith,
Glad that was easy to figure out. Was the racket more like a loud hum?
Either way if the machine is old go ahead and replace both caps. You can look for them at following. I recently got in¡¯s from Mouser for my bandsaw.
Imran
On Mar 14, 2021, at 4:37 PM, keith turner <keithturner01@...> wrote:
?
Thank you
Keith
I know others have bought replacements of Amazon. You need to look at the writing on the casing and get the appropriate one.. a search through the posts here might come up with the values. My machines are three phase
so I don¡¯t have the caps. Any local motor rewinding shop or electronics supply house should be able to supply replacements also.
Hi Brian
?I suspect you are right ,I started up the motor and let it get to full speed. then engaged the infeed , this ( I assume it's a capacitor) started smoking then popped out of the casing . If it is a capacitor any idea where I can pick one up ,I live in Canada
Keith
?
I suspect he has lost one or both of his capacitors. Did you hold the start button in until the motors reach full speed?
Keith,
The cutterhead would spin for a long while if the brake is not working. With brake it stops in ~8 sec give or take a few seconds. There is also a hum when brake is working. If properly calibrated the hum should stop same time as cutterhead
comes to a stop or fairly quickly afterwards but not before. There is nothing wrong if the hum continues for short time afterwards as long as machine is not restarted.
I have not thought about brake function with no load but imagine it would stop quickly not having to fight the moment of a heavy spinning cutterhead. I cannot imagine a reason for it to not work in this scenario.
There has been a report of brake board failure that resulted in overheating of motor but in your case the motor runs fine in no load condition. Have you run it for a longer duration with no load? I imagine if it is brake board causing
the overheating, it might take longer to shutdown under no load.
Sorry, that is all I can think off. Hopefully, someone else can offer better guidance. In case of overheating, I personally would check the current motor is pulling to rule out the motor.
Imran?
?
Hi Imran
? ? ? It is 230v single phase, I do not know how to tell if the electric brake is working.
If I disengage the infeed drive , the motor will work just sometimes, but if I remove the drive belt from the pulley the motor works every time
Keith
Keith,
Not sure what is happening but few pieces of info may help. Single phase or 3 phase? Is electric brake working, load or no load?
Imran
?My planer /jointer has just developed a problem.
When I start the machine up the head starts to turn then stalls and starts a growling noise (for want of a better word) ,the motor overheats and cuts out.
I have taken the drive belt off and the motor works fine, I checked the head and it seems fine, bearings turn freely and no play. When I reinstall the drive belt stalls again. i.e motor do not seem to work under load, Any ideas Keith
<thumbnail_image1 (2).jpg>
|
Congrats Andrew!? Looks like you may not need a workbench...you can use the beast of a pallette that machine came on !;).
|
Re: PF Wheel Durometer for Shaper and Jointer?
If the machine works on twisted board, either I am too thick or the video is not able to show the concept. The board is flattened by the overhead bars before the board gets to the cutterhead. How does that take care of the twist or whatever the implied defect is?
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 23, 2021, at 4:54 PM, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote: ?I just sent for amusement value, not an endorsement. The video is kind of nonsense of course, but it¡¯s an interesting question if the angled cutter head has value.
|
Re: PF Wheel Durometer for Shaper and Jointer?
I just sent for amusement value, not an endorsement. The video is kind of nonsense of course, but it¡¯s an interesting question if the angled cutter head has value.
|
it is the TI145 with side sliding table, I ordered with the following spec
Overhead touch screen
Electrospindle
Side sliding table Pro-TL version (there are two types of side sliding table, I ordered the larger version)
and a few other bits and pieces to make life easier, such as quick spindle interchange with compressed air... etc.?
|
Re: PF Wheel Durometer for Shaper and Jointer?
I don¡¯t buy that video for a second¡ it squishes the board flat and doesn¡¯t take into account the twist in the board.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 23, 2021, at 1:13 PM, mark thomas < murkyd@...> wrote:
Or just get a nice jointer with an angled cutterhead:
?
|
Re: PF Wheel Durometer for Shaper and Jointer?
Or just get a nice jointer with an angled cutterhead:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_hd8nGul9Q?
|
Re: PF Wheel Durometer for Shaper and Jointer?
Hmm, never thought about that
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Brian Lamb
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 10:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] PF Wheel Durometer for Shaper and Jointer?
?
You run the board diagonally¡ I do it all the time.
?
?
I¡¯ve never used a feeder on a jointer so I have zero experience.? Also I am only a serious hobbyist and do this just for fun.? I rough cut every board
oversize and then flatten and process to final size.? I¡¯ve been at this for over 40 years and I first got a planer in 1990.? Wow what an advancement in that I could now with the jointer and planer always work with stock that¡¯s perfectly flat and straight.?
When I need boards that are long, say longer than 5 ft, the bow or twist is often so large that one can barely get it flat and retain sufficient thickness even if processed perfectly.? Being a dedicated power tool guy I¡¯ve often pondered adding a power feeder
to the jointer but I keep mentally imagining that it would press some of the warp or twist out so I¡¯ve never added one.? I¡¯m not arguing that they work, just trying to get my head around how for example you can get a twist out with a power feeder. Seems you
would have to take twice as much off as compared to my hand method to get the twist out as you would start one end in flat and all the twist would be at the other end.?
I¡¯m pretty sure you meant David B., but since he was replying agreement to my post I thought I¡¯d take a risk and reply myself. In my reply, I absolutely don¡¯t mean to patronise ¡ª you probably already know all this stuff. Forgive me if I
go over known ground¡
If a board is already flat, then ¡°light forces with shallow passes¡± will probably get the job done. I say ¡°probably¡± because the hard timber we get in Australia won¡¯t pass nicely over the cutterhead without some serious drive help from
the feeder, especially for wider pieces (say 300mm and wider). But let¡¯s say the timber is of reasonable species, reasonable dimensions, and reasonably flat. A single pass of 1mm or 2mm will flatten the board, all-at-once, so it doesn¡¯t matter whether the
feeder is adjusted for a light force or a strong one. The key is that the job was done ¡°all-at-once¡±.
If a board is significantly not-flat ¡ª bowed, cupped, twisted ¡ª then any full length pass must get the majority of the ¡°not-flatness¡± out, otherwise, a couple of things will likely happen:
1. If the power feeder is adjusted so there is reasonable force pinning the board to the jointer surface, it is very likely the feeder pressure will partially flatten the board while it is being machined, only for the board to spring back
after it is ejected from the feeder.
2. This is especially the case for a bowed board (which looks ¡°curved¡± when viewed on-edge). In this instance, after the machine passes over the cutterhead, and under the feeder, it will ¡°spring¡± back into its natural curved state. It doesn¡¯t
take much pressure to distort a bowed board, especially one of some length ¡ª say 2m or longer. All that has been achieved in this instance is that the board¡¯s surface has been smoothed; but the board itself is still bowed.
3. This problem of spring back occurs less for cupped material (unless it is really thin) because even a strongly set power feeder will not unduly flatten a cupped board across its width during machining. So there is no, or less, spring
back.
4. For a twisted board, it doesn¡¯t really matter whether the feeder is adjusted lightly or strongly. Light passes will not correct the twist as the board is likely to rock one way to the other as it passes under the feeder wheels (especially
for short boards), or else corkscrew or propeller through as long boards are pinned under the feeder but twist through the cut as it extends off the end of the outfeed table. In other words, a twisted board is unstable unless it is manually flattened (e.g.
David B¡¯s suggestion with the scrub plane), machine flattened (by hand beside the feeder or with the feeder moved out of the way), or the depth of cut is sufficient enough to flatten the board all-at-once (at least to 75% flat).
In summary, and in theory, a lightly adjusted feeder and light passes will work just fine for flat or nearly flat timber. And in theory, a lightly adjusted feeder will flatten badly warped boards, as long as the board is not thin, does
not rock while being fed, and does not stick/stall because more drive pressure is required. Joe, this may be what you¡¯re thinking?
But in practice, boards need a reasonable amount of drive pressure from the feeder to work its way through the cutterhead. This is especially the case for cantankerous Australian timbers, and timbers of large dimensions. And this pressure
will usually distort a warped board as it passes under the feeder wheels. If the depth of cut is not sufficient to obtain that 75% all-at-once flatness, or better, then the machinist will be chasing his/her/them tail, and never achieve flatness.
David, why would ¡°light forces with shallow passes¡± not get the job done. Would this not be like using a hand plan?? Why does pressing a board flat
with the feeder not press some of the bow out before it passes the cutter?
I¡¯m with Lucky on this. ?For rough material, I first lay it on the sliding table of the saw, and check the amount of twist and bow. ?If the twist is under 3mm and the board lays flat, I set the jointer to 3+mm depth of cut, set the feeder
over the outfeed table and adjust the height for 4mm of expected upward wheel displacement, and let it rip. ?Say the rough material is 25mm, I set the feeder tires 18-19mm above the outfeed table, infeed table to 3mm DOC. ?One pass, plenty of downward force
on the outfeed table, and the board is ready for the thicknesser. ?Light forces with multiple shallow passes isn¡¯t going to get the surface flat. ?If the material has more than 3mm twist, I cut it into shorter pieces or work off the high corners with a scrub
plane first. ?The outfeed table has to be slick - I use Waxlit on top of Renaissance wax on the tables. ? This is one reason I optioned my Dual 51 with a 13HP motor, and I¡¯ve done lots of 16¡± wide cherry in this manner. ? For thicker rough material (12/4 Oak
for instance), I pay equal attention to bow and twist, and if the bow is substantial, with convex side down, bring down thickness at both ends, stopping part way through, then doing end-for-end swap, until the bow is less than 2mm or so, then revert to the
process mentioned above.
On Mar 21, 2021, at 2:42 PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
Hi Imran:
There is a common misperception that ¡°minimum down force¡± is desirable for a jointer.?
I think this is wrong thinking arising from users who take many light passes to flatten a board. In such a scenario, where a light pass is taken that does not flatten a board all-at-once, the board being machined would not rest flat against the outfeed table,
and therefore be forced flat under the feeder, only to spring back afterwards. This leads to frustrating results.?
Best practice for jointer machinists, using a feeder, is to set the depth of cut to flatten the board all-at-once, to approx 75% of the board¡¯s surface. This achieves a flat board very quickly, and good down pressure can be used with the feeder. This is safer
(no slip) and the results are superior (i.e. flat, consistent results).
For scenarios where the jointer¡¯s capacity is not up to the job (e.g. minimal horsepower, or the cup/bow/twist is beyond the jointer¡¯s maximum depth of cut), then the offending board should be machined partially by hand, by moving the feeder aside (or working
beside the feeder if there¡¯s space) and machining part way along the ends (twist or bow), or pushing the board all the way through (cup ¡ª concave side down). The former is done easily by pushing a board through say 1/4 to 1/3 of the way, then lifting the board
off the cutterhead, swapping end for end, and machining 1/4 to 1/3 of the other end, to eliminate most of the twist or bow. The latter is easy enough to do, even for large boards, because most of the board is not engaged in the cut (only the outer edges of
the cupped board), and so can be pushed through manually.
This process prepares the worst boards to a ¡°flatness¡± that allows the feeder to be used for that single, final feeder pass, which gets the board flat. By the way, short boards, say 600mm or shorter, which cannot be flattened all-at-once, should be discarded
from the shop and project, or they should be partially flattened by hand (scrub plane). Short boards should not be partially machined by hand in the above manner, as the operator is working too close to the cutter head. User discretion required here.?
Minimum down force is irrelevant.?
Warm regards,
David Lucky
On 21 Mar 2021, at 11:21 pm, imranindiana via??<imranindiana@...>
wrote:
?Apparently, a modification is offered by Western Roller where a belt can be installed on PF - pic from their website
Would this work better on PF for jointer where one wants minimum down force?
Imran
On Mar 21, 2021, at 9:01 AM, imranindiana via??<imranindiana@...>
wrote:
?There are lots of msgs here and it appears durometer 60 is the most common recommendation. However, I saw durometer 50 is also available.
I need to replace wheels on shaper and jointer PF. Both have factory wheels. What is the durometer recommendation?
Axiom Industries and Western Roller Corp are the 2 places recommended.
If we have a sort on consensus, I can create a hashtag msg with details so it is easy to find.
Imran
<image0.jpeg>
?
|
imran
David P. Best
Jeff
Albert Lee
Joe Jensen