Re: Looking for a band saw the size of a Minimax 16/Felder FB510 or so in the upper Midwest
#Bandsaw
Derating by 1/3 makes intuitive sense, and my CNC router is somewhere in that range ¨C a 4HP spindle powered by a 7.5HP VFD with 2 phases powered, however apparently manufacturers aren¡¯t entirely comfortable with that ¨C above 3HP it seems
to be more like 50% or even 66% derating ¨C e.g. the 15HP unit required to handle 5HP.
?
thanks for the details on decel. as for derating, we have discussed it here. in fact, my RL (5HP) is run by 7.5 HP VFD. as you said 3HP is typically the limit where a 3 ph VFD could be used with 2 inputs. beyond that one has to consider
the required higher input current per leg (as 1/3 of the VFD input is not being used) but the output still has to support the rated current for 3 legs. so one should upgrade to a VFD that is designed to handle this larger current per input leg. at least that
is what i was told. input caps are most vulnerable due to the higher ripple current.
On Oct 14, 2020, at 8:41 AM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote:
?
I chatted with the Automation Direct tech support guy about this and he suggested cranking the decel time down until the drive complains. Mine seems to not throw an error message; it just does what it can handle silently. Other models may
throw an overcurrent error if you are too aggressive.
?
A semi-related tangent ¨C early on in my saga with this saw I was told it was 5 HP, so I spent some time researching VFDs of that size. Up to 3HP is trivial and inexpensive for single-phase input ¨C there are a bunch of drives that can do
it for $300 or less. North of 3 HP the price goes up a lot. To do it by the book, a single-phase in VFD that can handle 5 HP was $1000.
?
Most 3-phase in drives can run with only two input phases powered, but you need to derate the drive by some amount, and in most cases by more than the 33% of the lost input phase. The $1000 VFD mentioned above is I believe a 15HP rated
drive with all 3 input phases powered. The tech I spoke to said that you might be able to get by with a smaller drive than what¡¯s officially supported for 1 in/3 out, but you¡¯re on your own. As my saw turned out to be 2HP, that was moot for me, and I¡¯m happily
in the cheap VFD zone, though I would have happily paid up if the motor was bigger.
?
that is good info. i have never explored braking on the VFD that runs my RL125 but i believe it works the same way and supports ext. braking resistor. just curious, how does your VFD communicate if internal braking is not sufficient? just
by braking time, i.e., it self protects?
On Oct 14, 2020, at 7:56 AM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote:
?
The VFD does indeed provide internal braking, up to the current limit of the switching devices. Without the internal braking it takes maybe 50 or 60 seconds to wind down. A braking resistor in theory would allow me to stop even faster and
the Weg VFD I chose supports it, but I didn¡¯t want to spend the money or enclosure space.
?
The wheels are cast aluminum.
?
considering the size, i am surprised with 7 sec stop time without braking. does it have CI wheels?
On Oct 14, 2020, at 7:28 AM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote:
?
Also, I agonized about using a braking resistor, but after doing a mockup and playing with deceleration time in the drive, I found that the drive can stop the wheels in about 7 seconds without an external sink, and I thought that was good
enough. The saw does have a mechanical brake as well if I need it.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 14, 2020, at 9:20 AM, TJ Cornish via groups.io <tj@...> wrote:
?Thanks all for the feedback.
The parts are from Automation Direct. My constraint was that I didn't want to exceed the existing footprint of the saw with a big VFD enclosure, and the logical place to mount it was under the motor. That limited me to about a 10" wide x 6" deep box. I ended
up using a 10x10x6, but if I could do it again, I would get a 10x14x6 or so - that extra couple inches would have made cramming all the stuff inside a lot easier.
I used a Weg 3HP VFD (my saw is 2HP, so I upsized in case I ever replace the motor) which is pretty compact. My shop is in my house and I have trouble with VFDs tripping my arc-fault breakers, so I put in an input EMI filter to keep the saw from causing problems
in my house. The enclosure also has a 25A disconnect switch, a pilot light, and a 12v power supply. I wanted to do remote speed control and programming, so I opted for the remote display, which is what required the 12v supply.
The controls are 22m buttons from Automation Direct. These are pretty cookie-cutter parts. The VFD is setup to run in a 3-wire mode with a normally open start switch going to one digital input and a normally closed stop switch going to another one. The knob
on my control panel controls the speed from about 3Hz to 66Hz, which gives me a range of very slow for setting blade tracking up to about 5000fpm if I overspeed my 900RPM motor slightly (slightly meaning 10% to about 1000RPM).
The enclosure was heavily modified to get all the stuff in plus cooling. I have a Bridgeport that I did most of the drilling and cutting on, however I confess I cut a couple corners in the interest of time and due to the awkwardness of clamping something as
wobbly and large as this box, so the rear louver cutout and the drilled cooling hole pattern on the bottom aren't exactly machinery-tolerance.
The airflow of the VFD is bottom to top. I don't like top-mounted vents, so I drilled a bunch of intake holes at the bottom of the enclosure and the air exits the louvered vent out the back.
Most of the disconnect switches like this use remote handles and are shaft driven. I mounted the disconnect itself where it had to go in the box and then carefully measured where to drill the door for the handle.
To mount the user controls I got a piece of steel plate and drilled through the back of the saw housing. The blade guard slides up and down on the side, so I couldn't mount it there. The user control box is a 6x6x4 Hubbell-Weigmann enclosure. I made a custom
faceplate for the buttons and VFD screen and had to hog out two sides of the 6x6 box to get stuff to fit, but I'm happy with how that turned out.
For some reason my saw had a strange slot milled perpendicular to the blade. Northfield has no idea what that was for and is sure they didn't do it. I machined an aluminum slug to fill that in.
If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to provide a BOM of what I used.
|
Re: Looking for a band saw the size of a Minimax 16/Felder FB510 or so in the upper Midwest
#Bandsaw
My saw (1968) was originally a 1HP I believe, and then was upgraded (1972) to something else, but the motor plate was missing so it wasn¡¯t clear what was on it. I was able to use acetone to get through the paint job on the motor casting
to find the original serial number and tracked it down with the manufacturer to get the actual specs.
?
I originally had a SawStop which I sold this summer for a CF531 slider combo. I fired it a couple times due to unknown metal content and/or contact with the miter fence, and just over a year ago I fired it with my finger. It was as you
said ¨C the saw was spinning down and my wife poked her head through the shop door just as I went to clear a small offcut.? I¡¯m OK ¨C no lasting damage and only required a band aid, but brakes are a good thing.?
?
?
I've never seen a 20" old iron bandsaw with larger than a 2 hp motor but they have a lot of torque as the rating is at 900 rpm.? To fit my lathe, I needed short resistors but could fit several
so I went that route.? 7 seconds plus a manual brake will be fine.? My Y20 takes several minutes to slow and the footbrake is worn so I need to stand on it.? I won't leave a machine that is still spinning as I tend to daydream.? Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of TJ Cornish <tj@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 11:43 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Looking for a band saw the size of a Minimax 16/Felder FB510 or so in the upper Midwest #Bandsaw
It took a while to find out the correct resistance for this drive due to lack of documentation ¨C I think it turned out to be 43¦¸. A matching resistor from Automation Direct was about $125, but would have required either a second enclosure
or a much larger main enclosure.
?
I put external brake resistors on my lathe.? I found four 25 ohm resistors on ebay for $50 total and wired two in series and two parallel to keep the ohm thing correct.? I mounted them in a different
location.? If your bandsaw has a footbrake you can just wire it to cut the vfd and use the wheel friction to avoid the whole resistor thing.? Dave
The VFD does indeed provide internal braking, up to the current limit of the switching devices. Without the internal braking it takes maybe 50 or 60 seconds to wind down. A braking resistor in theory would allow me to stop even faster
and the Weg VFD I chose supports it, but I didn¡¯t want to spend the money or enclosure space.
?
The wheels are cast aluminum.
?
considering the size, i am surprised with 7 sec stop time without braking. does it have CI wheels?
On Oct 14, 2020, at 7:28 AM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote:
?
Also, I agonized about using a braking resistor, but after doing a mockup and playing with deceleration time in the drive, I found that the drive can stop the wheels in about 7 seconds without an external sink, and I thought that was
good enough. The saw does have a mechanical brake as well if I need it.
?
On Oct 14, 2020, at 9:20 AM, TJ Cornish via groups.io <tj@...> wrote:
?Thanks all for the feedback.
The parts are from Automation Direct. My constraint was that I didn't want to exceed the existing footprint of the saw with a big VFD enclosure, and the logical place to mount it was under the motor. That limited me to about a 10" wide x 6" deep box. I ended
up using a 10x10x6, but if I could do it again, I would get a 10x14x6 or so - that extra couple inches would have made cramming all the stuff inside a lot easier.
I used a Weg 3HP VFD (my saw is 2HP, so I upsized in case I ever replace the motor) which is pretty compact. My shop is in my house and I have trouble with VFDs tripping my arc-fault breakers, so I put in an input EMI filter to keep the saw from causing problems
in my house. The enclosure also has a 25A disconnect switch, a pilot light, and a 12v power supply. I wanted to do remote speed control and programming, so I opted for the remote display, which is what required the 12v supply.
The controls are 22m buttons from Automation Direct. These are pretty cookie-cutter parts. The VFD is setup to run in a 3-wire mode with a normally open start switch going to one digital input and a normally closed stop switch going to another one. The knob
on my control panel controls the speed from about 3Hz to 66Hz, which gives me a range of very slow for setting blade tracking up to about 5000fpm if I overspeed my 900RPM motor slightly (slightly meaning 10% to about 1000RPM).
The enclosure was heavily modified to get all the stuff in plus cooling. I have a Bridgeport that I did most of the drilling and cutting on, however I confess I cut a couple corners in the interest of time and due to the awkwardness of clamping something as
wobbly and large as this box, so the rear louver cutout and the drilled cooling hole pattern on the bottom aren't exactly machinery-tolerance.
The airflow of the VFD is bottom to top. I don't like top-mounted vents, so I drilled a bunch of intake holes at the bottom of the enclosure and the air exits the louvered vent out the back.
Most of the disconnect switches like this use remote handles and are shaft driven. I mounted the disconnect itself where it had to go in the box and then carefully measured where to drill the door for the handle.
To mount the user controls I got a piece of steel plate and drilled through the back of the saw housing. The blade guard slides up and down on the side, so I couldn't mount it there. The user control box is a 6x6x4 Hubbell-Weigmann enclosure. I made a custom
faceplate for the buttons and VFD screen and had to hog out two sides of the 6x6 box to get stuff to fit, but I'm happy with how that turned out.
For some reason my saw had a strange slot milled perpendicular to the blade. Northfield has no idea what that was for and is sure they didn't do it. I machined an aluminum slug to fill that in.
If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to provide a BOM of what I used.
|
Re: Looking for a band saw the size of a Minimax 16/Felder FB510 or so in the upper Midwest
#Bandsaw
TJ,
thanks for the details on decel. as for derating, we have discussed it here. in fact, my RL (5HP) is run by 7.5 HP VFD. as you said 3HP is typically the limit where a 3 ph VFD could be used with 2 inputs. beyond that one has to consider the required higher input current per leg (as 1/3 of the VFD input is not being used) but the output still has to support the rated current for 3 legs. so one should upgrade to a VFD that is designed to handle this larger current per input leg. at least that is what i was told. input caps are most vulnerable due to the higher ripple current.
imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 14, 2020, at 8:41 AM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote: ?
I chatted with the Automation Direct tech support guy about this and he suggested cranking the decel time down until the drive complains. Mine seems to not throw an error message; it just does what it can handle silently. Other models may
throw an overcurrent error if you are too aggressive.
?
A semi-related tangent ¨C early on in my saga with this saw I was told it was 5 HP, so I spent some time researching VFDs of that size. Up to 3HP is trivial and inexpensive for single-phase input ¨C there are a bunch of drives that can do
it for $300 or less. North of 3 HP the price goes up a lot. To do it by the book, a single-phase in VFD that can handle 5 HP was $1000.
?
Most 3-phase in drives can run with only two input phases powered, but you need to derate the drive by some amount, and in most cases by more than the 33% of the lost input phase. The $1000 VFD mentioned above is I believe a 15HP rated
drive with all 3 input phases powered. The tech I spoke to said that you might be able to get by with a smaller drive than what¡¯s officially supported for 1 in/3 out, but you¡¯re on your own. As my saw turned out to be 2HP, that was moot for me, and I¡¯m happily
in the cheap VFD zone, though I would have happily paid up if the motor was bigger.
?
that is good info. i have never explored braking on the VFD that runs my RL125 but i believe it works the same way and supports ext. braking resistor. just curious, how does your VFD communicate if internal braking is not sufficient? just
by braking time, i.e., it self protects?
On Oct 14, 2020, at 7:56 AM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote:
?
The VFD does indeed provide internal braking, up to the current limit of the switching devices. Without the internal braking it takes maybe 50 or 60 seconds to wind down. A braking resistor in theory would allow me to stop even faster and
the Weg VFD I chose supports it, but I didn¡¯t want to spend the money or enclosure space.
?
The wheels are cast aluminum.
?
considering the size, i am surprised with 7 sec stop time without braking. does it have CI wheels?
On Oct 14, 2020, at 7:28 AM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote:
?
Also, I agonized about using a braking resistor, but after doing a mockup and playing with deceleration time in the drive, I found that the drive can stop the wheels in about 7 seconds without an external sink, and I thought that was good
enough. The saw does have a mechanical brake as well if I need it.
?
On Oct 14, 2020, at 9:20 AM, TJ Cornish via groups.io <tj@...> wrote:
?Thanks all for the feedback.
The parts are from Automation Direct. My constraint was that I didn't want to exceed the existing footprint of the saw with a big VFD enclosure, and the logical place to mount it was under the motor. That limited me to about a 10" wide x 6" deep box. I ended
up using a 10x10x6, but if I could do it again, I would get a 10x14x6 or so - that extra couple inches would have made cramming all the stuff inside a lot easier.
I used a Weg 3HP VFD (my saw is 2HP, so I upsized in case I ever replace the motor) which is pretty compact. My shop is in my house and I have trouble with VFDs tripping my arc-fault breakers, so I put in an input EMI filter to keep the saw from causing problems
in my house. The enclosure also has a 25A disconnect switch, a pilot light, and a 12v power supply. I wanted to do remote speed control and programming, so I opted for the remote display, which is what required the 12v supply.
The controls are 22m buttons from Automation Direct. These are pretty cookie-cutter parts. The VFD is setup to run in a 3-wire mode with a normally open start switch going to one digital input and a normally closed stop switch going to another one. The knob
on my control panel controls the speed from about 3Hz to 66Hz, which gives me a range of very slow for setting blade tracking up to about 5000fpm if I overspeed my 900RPM motor slightly (slightly meaning 10% to about 1000RPM).
The enclosure was heavily modified to get all the stuff in plus cooling. I have a Bridgeport that I did most of the drilling and cutting on, however I confess I cut a couple corners in the interest of time and due to the awkwardness of clamping something as
wobbly and large as this box, so the rear louver cutout and the drilled cooling hole pattern on the bottom aren't exactly machinery-tolerance.
The airflow of the VFD is bottom to top. I don't like top-mounted vents, so I drilled a bunch of intake holes at the bottom of the enclosure and the air exits the louvered vent out the back.
Most of the disconnect switches like this use remote handles and are shaft driven. I mounted the disconnect itself where it had to go in the box and then carefully measured where to drill the door for the handle.
To mount the user controls I got a piece of steel plate and drilled through the back of the saw housing. The blade guard slides up and down on the side, so I couldn't mount it there. The user control box is a 6x6x4 Hubbell-Weigmann enclosure. I made a custom
faceplate for the buttons and VFD screen and had to hog out two sides of the 6x6 box to get stuff to fit, but I'm happy with how that turned out.
For some reason my saw had a strange slot milled perpendicular to the blade. Northfield has no idea what that was for and is sure they didn't do it. I machined an aluminum slug to fill that in.
If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to provide a BOM of what I used.
|
Re: Looking for a band saw the size of a Minimax 16/Felder FB510 or so in the upper Midwest
#Bandsaw
I've never seen a 20" old iron bandsaw with larger than a 2 hp motor but they have a lot of torque as the rating is at 900 rpm.? To fit my lathe, I needed short resistors but could fit several so I went that route.? 7 seconds plus a manual brake will be fine.?
My Y20 takes several minutes to slow and the footbrake is worn so I need to stand on it.? I won't leave a machine that is still spinning as I tend to daydream.? Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
It took a while to find out the correct resistance for this drive due to lack of documentation ¨C I think it turned out to be 43¦¸. A matching resistor from Automation Direct was about $125, but would have required either a second enclosure or a much larger main
enclosure.
?
I put external brake resistors on my lathe.? I found four 25 ohm resistors on ebay for $50 total and wired two in series and two parallel to keep the ohm thing correct.? I mounted them in a different location.? If
your bandsaw has a footbrake you can just wire it to cut the vfd and use the wheel friction to avoid the whole resistor thing.? Dave
The VFD does indeed provide internal braking, up to the current limit of the switching devices. Without the internal braking it takes maybe 50 or 60 seconds to wind down. A braking resistor in theory would allow me to stop even faster and the Weg VFD I chose
supports it, but I didn¡¯t want to spend the money or enclosure space.
?
The wheels are cast aluminum.
?
considering the size, i am surprised with 7 sec stop time without braking. does it have CI wheels?
On Oct 14, 2020, at 7:28 AM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote:
?
Also, I agonized about using a braking resistor, but after doing a mockup and playing with deceleration time in the drive, I found that the drive can stop the wheels in about 7 seconds without an external sink, and I thought that was good enough. The saw does
have a mechanical brake as well if I need it.
?
On Oct 14, 2020, at 9:20 AM, TJ Cornish via groups.io <tj@...> wrote:
?Thanks all for the feedback.
The parts are from Automation Direct. My constraint was that I didn't want to exceed the existing footprint of the saw with a big VFD enclosure, and the logical place to mount it was under the motor. That limited me to about a 10" wide x 6" deep box. I ended
up using a 10x10x6, but if I could do it again, I would get a 10x14x6 or so - that extra couple inches would have made cramming all the stuff inside a lot easier.
I used a Weg 3HP VFD (my saw is 2HP, so I upsized in case I ever replace the motor) which is pretty compact. My shop is in my house and I have trouble with VFDs tripping my arc-fault breakers, so I put in an input EMI filter to keep the saw from causing problems
in my house. The enclosure also has a 25A disconnect switch, a pilot light, and a 12v power supply. I wanted to do remote speed control and programming, so I opted for the remote display, which is what required the 12v supply.
The controls are 22m buttons from Automation Direct. These are pretty cookie-cutter parts. The VFD is setup to run in a 3-wire mode with a normally open start switch going to one digital input and a normally closed stop switch going to another one. The knob
on my control panel controls the speed from about 3Hz to 66Hz, which gives me a range of very slow for setting blade tracking up to about 5000fpm if I overspeed my 900RPM motor slightly (slightly meaning 10% to about 1000RPM).
The enclosure was heavily modified to get all the stuff in plus cooling. I have a Bridgeport that I did most of the drilling and cutting on, however I confess I cut a couple corners in the interest of time and due to the awkwardness of clamping something as
wobbly and large as this box, so the rear louver cutout and the drilled cooling hole pattern on the bottom aren't exactly machinery-tolerance.
The airflow of the VFD is bottom to top. I don't like top-mounted vents, so I drilled a bunch of intake holes at the bottom of the enclosure and the air exits the louvered vent out the back.
Most of the disconnect switches like this use remote handles and are shaft driven. I mounted the disconnect itself where it had to go in the box and then carefully measured where to drill the door for the handle.
To mount the user controls I got a piece of steel plate and drilled through the back of the saw housing. The blade guard slides up and down on the side, so I couldn't mount it there. The user control box is a 6x6x4 Hubbell-Weigmann enclosure. I made a custom
faceplate for the buttons and VFD screen and had to hog out two sides of the 6x6 box to get stuff to fit, but I'm happy with how that turned out.
For some reason my saw had a strange slot milled perpendicular to the blade. Northfield has no idea what that was for and is sure they didn't do it. I machined an aluminum slug to fill that in.
If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to provide a BOM of what I used.
|
Re: Small Edge Bead Profile
Yep- a custom knife in an insert head would be how I would do it, assuming you can build up the profile ie the lower and upper sections don¡¯t need to be milled to the face level. Or just apply a moulding.
Michael Tagge
Built Custom Carpentry
Get
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Michael,
I imagine cheapest would be a cutter like felder safety cutter that takes blades with profile. i cannot imagine it would cost more than $150 for a custom profile 3/4¡± tall with two sets of cutters and limiters. not sure if you have such a cutter
head.
imran
On Oct 14, 2020, at 8:40 AM, Michael Garrison Stuber <mtgstuber@...> wrote:
?
Hi folks,
??? I'm adding electric window openers to a set of casement windows in the cupola of a building I'm working on.? I'd like to keep the existing screens.? To do this, I need to change as little as possible.? I've found I can reuse most of the existing molding,
however, there is one action I need to recreate, as the original hand-crank opener required a much bigger hole and it is offset instead of centered.? The end result is that I need to create a strip of molding with a 3/64 radius edge bead on each side to interlock
with the existing moldings.
??? I've been trying to find a source for such a thing.? Tools today has an Amana router bit ()? that has this profile,
but I would have to do three passes on each side to create the necessary profile.? One to cut the needed bead, and then two passes with a straight cutter to get to the final profile.? I figured it would be worth spending the money on a custom router bit.?
I wouldn't mind a custom shaper cutter, but this is a limited run, and custom shaper cutters are about 2x as much as custom router bits.
??? The one vendor I was talking to says that they can't actually make a bit to cut this profile, as the slot is too deep/narrow.? I find this surprising (after all it's only 5/64" deep), but I'm not a tooling manufacturer.? Another manufacturer wants $260,
which seems steep to me.
<bdidmkhaglccceol.png>
??? Any suggestions on better ways to source or achieve this?? I've looked at catalogs from Whitesite, Freud, Whitehill, and Freeborn.? I'm not finding anything stock that would easily let me create this profile..?
--
Michael Garrison Stuber
|
Re: Small Edge Bead Profile
Look for a local tool and cutter grinder shop that sharpens and makes custom tools for machine shops. I needed a real shallow angle on some aluminum parts so bought a cheap 2¡± diameter spoil board cutter off ebay and then had them grind I think it was a 7? angle on the two flutes, worked great. Cutter cost about $20 and I paid $60 to have it ground.?
You could do this with a 1/2¡± shanked 3/4¡± diameter straight router bit and still have plenty of diameter at the groove for support.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 14, 2020, at 8:40 AM, Michael Garrison Stuber < mtgstuber@...> wrote:
Hi folks, ??? I'm adding electric window openers to a set of casement
windows in the cupola of a building I'm working on.? I'd like to
keep the existing screens.? To do this, I need to change as little
as possible.? I've found I can reuse most of the existing molding,
however, there is one action I need to recreate, as the original
hand-crank opener required a much bigger hole and it is offset
instead of centered.? The end result is that I need to create a
strip of molding with a 3/64 radius edge bead on each side to
interlock with the existing moldings. ??? I've been trying to find a source for such a thing.? Tools
today has an Amana router bit
()? that has this
profile, but I would have to do three passes on each side to
create the necessary profile.? One to cut the needed bead, and
then two passes with a straight cutter to get to the final
profile.? I figured it would be worth spending the money on a
custom router bit.? I wouldn't mind a custom shaper cutter, but
this is a limited run, and custom shaper cutters are about 2x as
much as custom router bits.
??? The one vendor I was talking to says that they can't actually
make a bit to cut this profile, as the slot is too deep/narrow.? I
find this surprising (after all it's only 5/64" deep), but I'm not
a tooling manufacturer.? Another manufacturer wants $260, which
seems steep to me.
<bdidmkhaglccceol.png> ??? Any suggestions on better ways to source or achieve this??
I've looked at catalogs from Whitesite, Freud, Whitehill, and
Freeborn.? I'm not finding anything stock that would easily let me
create this profile..?
--
Michael Garrison Stuber
|
Re: Small Edge Bead Profile
Michael,
I imagine cheapest would be a cutter like felder safety cutter that takes blades with profile. i cannot imagine it would cost more than $150 for a custom profile 3/4¡± tall with two sets of cutters and limiters. not sure if you have such a cutter head.
imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 14, 2020, at 8:40 AM, Michael Garrison Stuber <mtgstuber@...> wrote: ?
Hi folks,
??? I'm adding electric window openers to a set of casement
windows in the cupola of a building I'm working on.? I'd like to
keep the existing screens.? To do this, I need to change as little
as possible.? I've found I can reuse most of the existing molding,
however, there is one action I need to recreate, as the original
hand-crank opener required a much bigger hole and it is offset
instead of centered.? The end result is that I need to create a
strip of molding with a 3/64 radius edge bead on each side to
interlock with the existing moldings.
??? I've been trying to find a source for such a thing.? Tools
today has an Amana router bit
()? that has this
profile, but I would have to do three passes on each side to
create the necessary profile.? One to cut the needed bead, and
then two passes with a straight cutter to get to the final
profile.? I figured it would be worth spending the money on a
custom router bit.? I wouldn't mind a custom shaper cutter, but
this is a limited run, and custom shaper cutters are about 2x as
much as custom router bits.
??? The one vendor I was talking to says that they can't actually
make a bit to cut this profile, as the slot is too deep/narrow.? I
find this surprising (after all it's only 5/64" deep), but I'm not
a tooling manufacturer.? Another manufacturer wants $260, which
seems steep to me.
<bdidmkhaglccceol.png>
??? Any suggestions on better ways to source or achieve this??
I've looked at catalogs from Whitesite, Freud, Whitehill, and
Freeborn.? I'm not finding anything stock that would easily let me
create this profile..?
--
Michael Garrison Stuber
|
Re: Looking for a band saw the size of a Minimax 16/Felder FB510 or so in the upper Midwest
#Bandsaw
It took a while to find out the correct resistance for this drive due to lack of documentation ¨C I think it turned out to be 43¦¸. A matching resistor from Automation Direct was about $125, but would have required either a second enclosure
or a much larger main enclosure.
?
I put external brake resistors on my lathe.? I found four 25 ohm resistors on ebay for $50 total and wired two in series and two parallel to keep the ohm thing correct.? I mounted them in a different
location.? If your bandsaw has a footbrake you can just wire it to cut the vfd and use the wheel friction to avoid the whole resistor thing.? Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of TJ Cornish <tj@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 10:56 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Looking for a band saw the size of a Minimax 16/Felder FB510 or so in the upper Midwest #Bandsaw
The VFD does indeed provide internal braking, up to the current limit of the switching devices. Without the internal braking it takes maybe 50 or 60 seconds to wind down. A braking resistor in theory would allow me to stop even faster
and the Weg VFD I chose supports it, but I didn¡¯t want to spend the money or enclosure space.
?
The wheels are cast aluminum.
?
considering the size, i am surprised with 7 sec stop time without braking. does it have CI wheels?
On Oct 14, 2020, at 7:28 AM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote:
?
Also, I agonized about using a braking resistor, but after doing a mockup and playing with deceleration time in the drive, I found that the drive can stop the wheels in about 7 seconds without an external sink, and I thought that was good
enough. The saw does have a mechanical brake as well if I need it.
?
On Oct 14, 2020, at 9:20 AM, TJ Cornish via groups.io <tj@...> wrote:
?Thanks all for the feedback.
The parts are from Automation Direct. My constraint was that I didn't want to exceed the existing footprint of the saw with a big VFD enclosure, and the logical place to mount it was under the motor. That limited me to about a 10" wide x 6" deep box. I ended
up using a 10x10x6, but if I could do it again, I would get a 10x14x6 or so - that extra couple inches would have made cramming all the stuff inside a lot easier.
I used a Weg 3HP VFD (my saw is 2HP, so I upsized in case I ever replace the motor) which is pretty compact. My shop is in my house and I have trouble with VFDs tripping my arc-fault breakers, so I put in an input EMI filter to keep the saw from causing problems
in my house. The enclosure also has a 25A disconnect switch, a pilot light, and a 12v power supply. I wanted to do remote speed control and programming, so I opted for the remote display, which is what required the 12v supply.
The controls are 22m buttons from Automation Direct. These are pretty cookie-cutter parts. The VFD is setup to run in a 3-wire mode with a normally open start switch going to one digital input and a normally closed stop switch going to another one. The knob
on my control panel controls the speed from about 3Hz to 66Hz, which gives me a range of very slow for setting blade tracking up to about 5000fpm if I overspeed my 900RPM motor slightly (slightly meaning 10% to about 1000RPM).
The enclosure was heavily modified to get all the stuff in plus cooling. I have a Bridgeport that I did most of the drilling and cutting on, however I confess I cut a couple corners in the interest of time and due to the awkwardness of clamping something as
wobbly and large as this box, so the rear louver cutout and the drilled cooling hole pattern on the bottom aren't exactly machinery-tolerance.
The airflow of the VFD is bottom to top. I don't like top-mounted vents, so I drilled a bunch of intake holes at the bottom of the enclosure and the air exits the louvered vent out the back.
Most of the disconnect switches like this use remote handles and are shaft driven. I mounted the disconnect itself where it had to go in the box and then carefully measured where to drill the door for the handle.
To mount the user controls I got a piece of steel plate and drilled through the back of the saw housing. The blade guard slides up and down on the side, so I couldn't mount it there. The user control box is a 6x6x4 Hubbell-Weigmann enclosure. I made a custom
faceplate for the buttons and VFD screen and had to hog out two sides of the 6x6 box to get stuff to fit, but I'm happy with how that turned out.
For some reason my saw had a strange slot milled perpendicular to the blade. Northfield has no idea what that was for and is sure they didn't do it. I machined an aluminum slug to fill that in.
If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to provide a BOM of what I used.
|
Re: Looking for a band saw the size of a Minimax 16/Felder FB510 or so in the upper Midwest
#Bandsaw
I chatted with the Automation Direct tech support guy about this and he suggested cranking the decel time down until the drive complains. Mine seems to not throw an error message; it just does what it can handle silently. Other models may
throw an overcurrent error if you are too aggressive.
?
A semi-related tangent ¨C early on in my saga with this saw I was told it was 5 HP, so I spent some time researching VFDs of that size. Up to 3HP is trivial and inexpensive for single-phase input ¨C there are a bunch of drives that can do
it for $300 or less. North of 3 HP the price goes up a lot. To do it by the book, a single-phase in VFD that can handle 5 HP was $1000.
?
Most 3-phase in drives can run with only two input phases powered, but you need to derate the drive by some amount, and in most cases by more than the 33% of the lost input phase. The $1000 VFD mentioned above is I believe a 15HP rated
drive with all 3 input phases powered. The tech I spoke to said that you might be able to get by with a smaller drive than what¡¯s officially supported for 1 in/3 out, but you¡¯re on your own. As my saw turned out to be 2HP, that was moot for me, and I¡¯m happily
in the cheap VFD zone, though I would have happily paid up if the motor was bigger.
?
that is good info. i have never explored braking on the VFD that runs my RL125 but i believe it works the same way and supports ext. braking resistor. just curious, how does your VFD communicate if internal braking is not sufficient? just
by braking time, i.e., it self protects?
On Oct 14, 2020, at 7:56 AM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote:
?
The VFD does indeed provide internal braking, up to the current limit of the switching devices. Without the internal braking it takes maybe 50 or 60 seconds to wind down. A braking resistor in theory would allow me to stop even faster and
the Weg VFD I chose supports it, but I didn¡¯t want to spend the money or enclosure space.
?
The wheels are cast aluminum.
?
considering the size, i am surprised with 7 sec stop time without braking. does it have CI wheels?
On Oct 14, 2020, at 7:28 AM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote:
?
Also, I agonized about using a braking resistor, but after doing a mockup and playing with deceleration time in the drive, I found that the drive can stop the wheels in about 7 seconds without an external sink, and I thought that was good
enough. The saw does have a mechanical brake as well if I need it.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 14, 2020, at 9:20 AM, TJ Cornish via groups.io <tj@...> wrote:
?Thanks all for the feedback.
The parts are from Automation Direct. My constraint was that I didn't want to exceed the existing footprint of the saw with a big VFD enclosure, and the logical place to mount it was under the motor. That limited me to about a 10" wide x 6" deep box. I ended
up using a 10x10x6, but if I could do it again, I would get a 10x14x6 or so - that extra couple inches would have made cramming all the stuff inside a lot easier.
I used a Weg 3HP VFD (my saw is 2HP, so I upsized in case I ever replace the motor) which is pretty compact. My shop is in my house and I have trouble with VFDs tripping my arc-fault breakers, so I put in an input EMI filter to keep the saw from causing problems
in my house. The enclosure also has a 25A disconnect switch, a pilot light, and a 12v power supply. I wanted to do remote speed control and programming, so I opted for the remote display, which is what required the 12v supply.
The controls are 22m buttons from Automation Direct. These are pretty cookie-cutter parts. The VFD is setup to run in a 3-wire mode with a normally open start switch going to one digital input and a normally closed stop switch going to another one. The knob
on my control panel controls the speed from about 3Hz to 66Hz, which gives me a range of very slow for setting blade tracking up to about 5000fpm if I overspeed my 900RPM motor slightly (slightly meaning 10% to about 1000RPM).
The enclosure was heavily modified to get all the stuff in plus cooling. I have a Bridgeport that I did most of the drilling and cutting on, however I confess I cut a couple corners in the interest of time and due to the awkwardness of clamping something as
wobbly and large as this box, so the rear louver cutout and the drilled cooling hole pattern on the bottom aren't exactly machinery-tolerance.
The airflow of the VFD is bottom to top. I don't like top-mounted vents, so I drilled a bunch of intake holes at the bottom of the enclosure and the air exits the louvered vent out the back.
Most of the disconnect switches like this use remote handles and are shaft driven. I mounted the disconnect itself where it had to go in the box and then carefully measured where to drill the door for the handle.
To mount the user controls I got a piece of steel plate and drilled through the back of the saw housing. The blade guard slides up and down on the side, so I couldn't mount it there. The user control box is a 6x6x4 Hubbell-Weigmann enclosure. I made a custom
faceplate for the buttons and VFD screen and had to hog out two sides of the 6x6 box to get stuff to fit, but I'm happy with how that turned out.
For some reason my saw had a strange slot milled perpendicular to the blade. Northfield has no idea what that was for and is sure they didn't do it. I machined an aluminum slug to fill that in.
If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to provide a BOM of what I used.
|
Hi folks,
??? I'm adding electric window openers to a set of casement
windows in the cupola of a building I'm working on.? I'd like to
keep the existing screens.? To do this, I need to change as little
as possible.? I've found I can reuse most of the existing molding,
however, there is one action I need to recreate, as the original
hand-crank opener required a much bigger hole and it is offset
instead of centered.? The end result is that I need to create a
strip of molding with a 3/64 radius edge bead on each side to
interlock with the existing moldings.
??? I've been trying to find a source for such a thing.? Tools
today has an Amana router bit
()? that has this
profile, but I would have to do three passes on each side to
create the necessary profile.? One to cut the needed bead, and
then two passes with a straight cutter to get to the final
profile.? I figured it would be worth spending the money on a
custom router bit.? I wouldn't mind a custom shaper cutter, but
this is a limited run, and custom shaper cutters are about 2x as
much as custom router bits.
??? The one vendor I was talking to says that they can't actually
make a bit to cut this profile, as the slot is too deep/narrow.? I
find this surprising (after all it's only 5/64" deep), but I'm not
a tooling manufacturer.? Another manufacturer wants $260, which
seems steep to me.
??? Any suggestions on better ways to source or achieve this??
I've looked at catalogs from Whitesite, Freud, Whitehill, and
Freeborn.? I'm not finding anything stock that would easily let me
create this profile..?
--
Michael Garrison Stuber
|
Re: General Woodworking Question
Thanks for all the great feedback folks.? In a way I'm a wee bit glad the solution wasn't intuitively obvious to my fellow woodworkers.? Imran is correct in his illustration above; I am interested in the "V" detail at the top of the stop cut In terms of profile,? it's a 7/8" round over with a 1/8" groove (or step) on each side - pretty standard corner detail.? ?When it exits or finishes, it creates a "V" as the bit moves away from the piece - but it needs to move away in an exact identical way on both sides.? Then the corner detail has the same 7/8" radius round over for the balance of the corner -? but obviously at a higher level so there is no groove on either side of the round over - I believe that requires a separate pass with the router bit set just to round over. I did reach out to a few router / shaper bit manufacturer's and while several said it was a cool detail,? they did not know how to re-create it.? One even asked me to let him know if I figured out an easy way to do it.? However, Eagle America did have an answer and came back with how to do it but also the name of the stop detail.? It's called a "drifting Lambs Tongue" detail and t o create it, the product specialist said "most times a sled / template is used with a rub collar.??Basically the rub collar follows the template that has a drift on both ends.??This allows the cutter to drift into the edge, make a straight cut, then drift off.??Nothing more than a thin piece of MDF, typically a 1/2" "notch" and drum sand the ends."? He said he will try to get me a sketch or picture of the sled so I can get a running start at this.
?
I'm going to give it a try over the next few days and will post pictures if it works.? ? Rob.
|
Re: Looking for a band saw the size of a Minimax 16/Felder FB510 or so in the upper Midwest
#Bandsaw
I put external brake resistors on my lathe.? I found four 25 ohm resistors on ebay for $50 total and wired two in series and two parallel to keep the ohm thing correct.? I mounted them in a different location.? If your bandsaw has a footbrake you can just wire
it to cut the vfd and use the wheel friction to avoid the whole resistor thing.? Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The VFD does indeed provide internal braking, up to the current limit of the switching devices. Without the internal braking it takes maybe 50 or 60 seconds to wind down. A braking resistor in theory would allow me to stop even faster and the Weg VFD I chose
supports it, but I didn¡¯t want to spend the money or enclosure space.
?
The wheels are cast aluminum.
?
considering the size, i am surprised with 7 sec stop time without braking. does it have CI wheels?
On Oct 14, 2020, at 7:28 AM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote:
?
Also, I agonized about using a braking resistor, but after doing a mockup and playing with deceleration time in the drive, I found that the drive can stop the wheels in about 7 seconds without an external sink, and I thought that was good enough. The saw does
have a mechanical brake as well if I need it.
?
On Oct 14, 2020, at 9:20 AM, TJ Cornish via groups.io <tj@...> wrote:
?Thanks all for the feedback.
The parts are from Automation Direct. My constraint was that I didn't want to exceed the existing footprint of the saw with a big VFD enclosure, and the logical place to mount it was under the motor. That limited me to about a 10" wide x 6" deep box. I ended
up using a 10x10x6, but if I could do it again, I would get a 10x14x6 or so - that extra couple inches would have made cramming all the stuff inside a lot easier.
I used a Weg 3HP VFD (my saw is 2HP, so I upsized in case I ever replace the motor) which is pretty compact. My shop is in my house and I have trouble with VFDs tripping my arc-fault breakers, so I put in an input EMI filter to keep the saw from causing problems
in my house. The enclosure also has a 25A disconnect switch, a pilot light, and a 12v power supply. I wanted to do remote speed control and programming, so I opted for the remote display, which is what required the 12v supply.
The controls are 22m buttons from Automation Direct. These are pretty cookie-cutter parts. The VFD is setup to run in a 3-wire mode with a normally open start switch going to one digital input and a normally closed stop switch going to another one. The knob
on my control panel controls the speed from about 3Hz to 66Hz, which gives me a range of very slow for setting blade tracking up to about 5000fpm if I overspeed my 900RPM motor slightly (slightly meaning 10% to about 1000RPM).
The enclosure was heavily modified to get all the stuff in plus cooling. I have a Bridgeport that I did most of the drilling and cutting on, however I confess I cut a couple corners in the interest of time and due to the awkwardness of clamping something as
wobbly and large as this box, so the rear louver cutout and the drilled cooling hole pattern on the bottom aren't exactly machinery-tolerance.
The airflow of the VFD is bottom to top. I don't like top-mounted vents, so I drilled a bunch of intake holes at the bottom of the enclosure and the air exits the louvered vent out the back.
Most of the disconnect switches like this use remote handles and are shaft driven. I mounted the disconnect itself where it had to go in the box and then carefully measured where to drill the door for the handle.
To mount the user controls I got a piece of steel plate and drilled through the back of the saw housing. The blade guard slides up and down on the side, so I couldn't mount it there. The user control box is a 6x6x4 Hubbell-Weigmann enclosure. I made a custom
faceplate for the buttons and VFD screen and had to hog out two sides of the 6x6 box to get stuff to fit, but I'm happy with how that turned out.
For some reason my saw had a strange slot milled perpendicular to the blade. Northfield has no idea what that was for and is sure they didn't do it. I machined an aluminum slug to fill that in.
If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to provide a BOM of what I used.
|
Re: Looking for a band saw the size of a Minimax 16/Felder FB510 or so in the upper Midwest
#Bandsaw
TJ,
that is good info. i have never explored braking on the VFD that runs my RL125 but i believe it works the same way and supports ext. braking resistor. just curious, how does your VFD communicate if internal braking is not sufficient? just by braking time, i.e., it self protects?
imran?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 14, 2020, at 7:56 AM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote: ?
The VFD does indeed provide internal braking, up to the current limit of the switching devices. Without the internal braking it takes maybe 50 or 60 seconds to wind down. A braking resistor in theory would allow me to stop even faster and
the Weg VFD I chose supports it, but I didn¡¯t want to spend the money or enclosure space.
?
The wheels are cast aluminum.
?
considering the size, i am surprised with 7 sec stop time without braking. does it have CI wheels?
On Oct 14, 2020, at 7:28 AM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote:
?
Also, I agonized about using a braking resistor, but after doing a mockup and playing with deceleration time in the drive, I found that the drive can stop the wheels in about 7 seconds without an external sink, and I thought that was good
enough. The saw does have a mechanical brake as well if I need it.
?
On Oct 14, 2020, at 9:20 AM, TJ Cornish via groups.io <tj@...> wrote:
?Thanks all for the feedback.
The parts are from Automation Direct. My constraint was that I didn't want to exceed the existing footprint of the saw with a big VFD enclosure, and the logical place to mount it was under the motor. That limited me to about a 10" wide x 6" deep box. I ended
up using a 10x10x6, but if I could do it again, I would get a 10x14x6 or so - that extra couple inches would have made cramming all the stuff inside a lot easier.
I used a Weg 3HP VFD (my saw is 2HP, so I upsized in case I ever replace the motor) which is pretty compact. My shop is in my house and I have trouble with VFDs tripping my arc-fault breakers, so I put in an input EMI filter to keep the saw from causing problems
in my house. The enclosure also has a 25A disconnect switch, a pilot light, and a 12v power supply. I wanted to do remote speed control and programming, so I opted for the remote display, which is what required the 12v supply.
The controls are 22m buttons from Automation Direct. These are pretty cookie-cutter parts. The VFD is setup to run in a 3-wire mode with a normally open start switch going to one digital input and a normally closed stop switch going to another one. The knob
on my control panel controls the speed from about 3Hz to 66Hz, which gives me a range of very slow for setting blade tracking up to about 5000fpm if I overspeed my 900RPM motor slightly (slightly meaning 10% to about 1000RPM).
The enclosure was heavily modified to get all the stuff in plus cooling. I have a Bridgeport that I did most of the drilling and cutting on, however I confess I cut a couple corners in the interest of time and due to the awkwardness of clamping something as
wobbly and large as this box, so the rear louver cutout and the drilled cooling hole pattern on the bottom aren't exactly machinery-tolerance.
The airflow of the VFD is bottom to top. I don't like top-mounted vents, so I drilled a bunch of intake holes at the bottom of the enclosure and the air exits the louvered vent out the back.
Most of the disconnect switches like this use remote handles and are shaft driven. I mounted the disconnect itself where it had to go in the box and then carefully measured where to drill the door for the handle.
To mount the user controls I got a piece of steel plate and drilled through the back of the saw housing. The blade guard slides up and down on the side, so I couldn't mount it there. The user control box is a 6x6x4 Hubbell-Weigmann enclosure. I made a custom
faceplate for the buttons and VFD screen and had to hog out two sides of the 6x6 box to get stuff to fit, but I'm happy with how that turned out.
For some reason my saw had a strange slot milled perpendicular to the blade. Northfield has no idea what that was for and is sure they didn't do it. I machined an aluminum slug to fill that in.
If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to provide a BOM of what I used.
|
Re: Looking for a band saw the size of a Minimax 16/Felder FB510 or so in the upper Midwest
#Bandsaw
The VFD does indeed provide internal braking, up to the current limit of the switching devices. Without the internal braking it takes maybe 50 or 60 seconds to wind down. A braking resistor in theory would allow me to stop even faster and
the Weg VFD I chose supports it, but I didn¡¯t want to spend the money or enclosure space.
?
The wheels are cast aluminum.
?
considering the size, i am surprised with 7 sec stop time without braking. does it have CI wheels?
On Oct 14, 2020, at 7:28 AM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote:
?
Also, I agonized about using a braking resistor, but after doing a mockup and playing with deceleration time in the drive, I found that the drive can stop the wheels in about 7 seconds without an external sink, and I thought that was good
enough. The saw does have a mechanical brake as well if I need it.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 14, 2020, at 9:20 AM, TJ Cornish via groups.io <tj@...> wrote:
?Thanks all for the feedback.
The parts are from Automation Direct. My constraint was that I didn't want to exceed the existing footprint of the saw with a big VFD enclosure, and the logical place to mount it was under the motor. That limited me to about a 10" wide x 6" deep box. I ended
up using a 10x10x6, but if I could do it again, I would get a 10x14x6 or so - that extra couple inches would have made cramming all the stuff inside a lot easier.
I used a Weg 3HP VFD (my saw is 2HP, so I upsized in case I ever replace the motor) which is pretty compact. My shop is in my house and I have trouble with VFDs tripping my arc-fault breakers, so I put in an input EMI filter to keep the saw from causing problems
in my house. The enclosure also has a 25A disconnect switch, a pilot light, and a 12v power supply. I wanted to do remote speed control and programming, so I opted for the remote display, which is what required the 12v supply.
The controls are 22m buttons from Automation Direct. These are pretty cookie-cutter parts. The VFD is setup to run in a 3-wire mode with a normally open start switch going to one digital input and a normally closed stop switch going to another one. The knob
on my control panel controls the speed from about 3Hz to 66Hz, which gives me a range of very slow for setting blade tracking up to about 5000fpm if I overspeed my 900RPM motor slightly (slightly meaning 10% to about 1000RPM).
The enclosure was heavily modified to get all the stuff in plus cooling. I have a Bridgeport that I did most of the drilling and cutting on, however I confess I cut a couple corners in the interest of time and due to the awkwardness of clamping something as
wobbly and large as this box, so the rear louver cutout and the drilled cooling hole pattern on the bottom aren't exactly machinery-tolerance.
The airflow of the VFD is bottom to top. I don't like top-mounted vents, so I drilled a bunch of intake holes at the bottom of the enclosure and the air exits the louvered vent out the back.
Most of the disconnect switches like this use remote handles and are shaft driven. I mounted the disconnect itself where it had to go in the box and then carefully measured where to drill the door for the handle.
To mount the user controls I got a piece of steel plate and drilled through the back of the saw housing. The blade guard slides up and down on the side, so I couldn't mount it there. The user control box is a 6x6x4 Hubbell-Weigmann enclosure. I made a custom
faceplate for the buttons and VFD screen and had to hog out two sides of the 6x6 box to get stuff to fit, but I'm happy with how that turned out.
For some reason my saw had a strange slot milled perpendicular to the blade. Northfield has no idea what that was for and is sure they didn't do it. I machined an aluminum slug to fill that in.
If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to provide a BOM of what I used.
|
Re: Looking for a band saw the size of a Minimax 16/Felder FB510 or so in the upper Midwest
#Bandsaw
The wheels are cast aluminum.
?
considering the size, i am surprised with 7 sec stop time without braking. does it have CI wheels?
On Oct 14, 2020, at 7:28 AM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote:
?
Also, I agonized about using a braking resistor, but after doing a mockup and playing with deceleration time in the drive, I found that the drive can stop the wheels in about 7 seconds without an external sink, and I thought that was good
enough. The saw does have a mechanical brake as well if I need it.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 14, 2020, at 9:20 AM, TJ Cornish via groups.io <tj@...> wrote:
?Thanks all for the feedback.
The parts are from Automation Direct. My constraint was that I didn't want to exceed the existing footprint of the saw with a big VFD enclosure, and the logical place to mount it was under the motor. That limited me to about a 10" wide x 6" deep box. I ended
up using a 10x10x6, but if I could do it again, I would get a 10x14x6 or so - that extra couple inches would have made cramming all the stuff inside a lot easier.
I used a Weg 3HP VFD (my saw is 2HP, so I upsized in case I ever replace the motor) which is pretty compact. My shop is in my house and I have trouble with VFDs tripping my arc-fault breakers, so I put in an input EMI filter to keep the saw from causing problems
in my house. The enclosure also has a 25A disconnect switch, a pilot light, and a 12v power supply. I wanted to do remote speed control and programming, so I opted for the remote display, which is what required the 12v supply.
The controls are 22m buttons from Automation Direct. These are pretty cookie-cutter parts. The VFD is setup to run in a 3-wire mode with a normally open start switch going to one digital input and a normally closed stop switch going to another one. The knob
on my control panel controls the speed from about 3Hz to 66Hz, which gives me a range of very slow for setting blade tracking up to about 5000fpm if I overspeed my 900RPM motor slightly (slightly meaning 10% to about 1000RPM).
The enclosure was heavily modified to get all the stuff in plus cooling. I have a Bridgeport that I did most of the drilling and cutting on, however I confess I cut a couple corners in the interest of time and due to the awkwardness of clamping something as
wobbly and large as this box, so the rear louver cutout and the drilled cooling hole pattern on the bottom aren't exactly machinery-tolerance.
The airflow of the VFD is bottom to top. I don't like top-mounted vents, so I drilled a bunch of intake holes at the bottom of the enclosure and the air exits the louvered vent out the back.
Most of the disconnect switches like this use remote handles and are shaft driven. I mounted the disconnect itself where it had to go in the box and then carefully measured where to drill the door for the handle.
To mount the user controls I got a piece of steel plate and drilled through the back of the saw housing. The blade guard slides up and down on the side, so I couldn't mount it there. The user control box is a 6x6x4 Hubbell-Weigmann enclosure. I made a custom
faceplate for the buttons and VFD screen and had to hog out two sides of the 6x6 box to get stuff to fit, but I'm happy with how that turned out.
For some reason my saw had a strange slot milled perpendicular to the blade. Northfield has no idea what that was for and is sure they didn't do it. I machined an aluminum slug to fill that in.
If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to provide a BOM of what I used.
|
Re: Looking for a band saw the size of a Minimax 16/Felder FB510 or so in the upper Midwest
#Bandsaw
TJ,
considering the size, i am surprised with 7 sec stop time without braking. does it have CI wheels?
imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 14, 2020, at 7:28 AM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote: ? Also, I agonized about using a braking resistor, but after doing a mockup and playing with deceleration time in the drive, I found that the drive can stop the wheels in about 7 seconds without an external sink, and I thought that was good enough. The saw does have a mechanical brake as well if I need it. On Oct 14, 2020, at 9:20 AM, TJ Cornish via groups.io <tj@...> wrote:
?Thanks all for the feedback. The parts are from Automation Direct. My constraint was that I didn't want to exceed the existing footprint of the saw with a big VFD enclosure, and the logical place to mount it was under the motor. That limited me to about a 10" wide x 6" deep box. I ended up using a 10x10x6, but if I could do it again, I would get a 10x14x6 or so - that extra couple inches would have made cramming all the stuff inside a lot easier. I used a Weg 3HP VFD (my saw is 2HP, so I upsized in case I ever replace the motor) which is pretty compact. My shop is in my house and I have trouble with VFDs tripping my arc-fault breakers, so I put in an input EMI filter to keep the saw from causing problems in my house. The enclosure also has a 25A disconnect switch, a pilot light, and a 12v power supply. I wanted to do remote speed control and programming, so I opted for the remote display, which is what required the 12v supply. The controls are 22m buttons from Automation Direct. These are pretty cookie-cutter parts. The VFD is setup to run in a 3-wire mode with a normally open start switch going to one digital input and a normally closed stop switch going to another one. The knob on my control panel controls the speed from about 3Hz to 66Hz, which gives me a range of very slow for setting blade tracking up to about 5000fpm if I overspeed my 900RPM motor slightly (slightly meaning 10% to about 1000RPM). The enclosure was heavily modified to get all the stuff in plus cooling. I have a Bridgeport that I did most of the drilling and cutting on, however I confess I cut a couple corners in the interest of time and due to the awkwardness of clamping something as wobbly and large as this box, so the rear louver cutout and the drilled cooling hole pattern on the bottom aren't exactly machinery-tolerance. The airflow of the VFD is bottom to top. I don't like top-mounted vents, so I drilled a bunch of intake holes at the bottom of the enclosure and the air exits the louvered vent out the back. Most of the disconnect switches like this use remote handles and are shaft driven. I mounted the disconnect itself where it had to go in the box and then carefully measured where to drill the door for the handle. To mount the user controls I got a piece of steel plate and drilled through the back of the saw housing. The blade guard slides up and down on the side, so I couldn't mount it there. The user control box is a 6x6x4 Hubbell-Weigmann enclosure. I made a custom faceplate for the buttons and VFD screen and had to hog out two sides of the 6x6 box to get stuff to fit, but I'm happy with how that turned out. For some reason my saw had a strange slot milled perpendicular to the blade. Northfield has no idea what that was for and is sure they didn't do it. I machined an aluminum slug to fill that in. If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to provide a BOM of what I used.
<IMG_2719.jpeg> <IMG_2702.jpeg> <Enclosure partial.jpg>
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Re: Looking for a band saw the size of a Minimax 16/Felder FB510 or so in the upper Midwest
#Bandsaw
Also, I agonized about using a braking resistor, but after doing a mockup and playing with deceleration time in the drive, I found that the drive can stop the wheels in about 7 seconds without an external sink, and I thought that was good enough. The saw does have a mechanical brake as well if I need it.
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Show quoted text
On Oct 14, 2020, at 9:20 AM, TJ Cornish via groups.io <tj@...> wrote:
?Thanks all for the feedback. The parts are from Automation Direct. My constraint was that I didn't want to exceed the existing footprint of the saw with a big VFD enclosure, and the logical place to mount it was under the motor. That limited me to about a 10" wide x 6" deep box. I ended up using a 10x10x6, but if I could do it again, I would get a 10x14x6 or so - that extra couple inches would have made cramming all the stuff inside a lot easier. I used a Weg 3HP VFD (my saw is 2HP, so I upsized in case I ever replace the motor) which is pretty compact. My shop is in my house and I have trouble with VFDs tripping my arc-fault breakers, so I put in an input EMI filter to keep the saw from causing problems in my house. The enclosure also has a 25A disconnect switch, a pilot light, and a 12v power supply. I wanted to do remote speed control and programming, so I opted for the remote display, which is what required the 12v supply. The controls are 22m buttons from Automation Direct. These are pretty cookie-cutter parts. The VFD is setup to run in a 3-wire mode with a normally open start switch going to one digital input and a normally closed stop switch going to another one. The knob on my control panel controls the speed from about 3Hz to 66Hz, which gives me a range of very slow for setting blade tracking up to about 5000fpm if I overspeed my 900RPM motor slightly (slightly meaning 10% to about 1000RPM). The enclosure was heavily modified to get all the stuff in plus cooling. I have a Bridgeport that I did most of the drilling and cutting on, however I confess I cut a couple corners in the interest of time and due to the awkwardness of clamping something as wobbly and large as this box, so the rear louver cutout and the drilled cooling hole pattern on the bottom aren't exactly machinery-tolerance. The airflow of the VFD is bottom to top. I don't like top-mounted vents, so I drilled a bunch of intake holes at the bottom of the enclosure and the air exits the louvered vent out the back. Most of the disconnect switches like this use remote handles and are shaft driven. I mounted the disconnect itself where it had to go in the box and then carefully measured where to drill the door for the handle. To mount the user controls I got a piece of steel plate and drilled through the back of the saw housing. The blade guard slides up and down on the side, so I couldn't mount it there. The user control box is a 6x6x4 Hubbell-Weigmann enclosure. I made a custom faceplate for the buttons and VFD screen and had to hog out two sides of the 6x6 box to get stuff to fit, but I'm happy with how that turned out. For some reason my saw had a strange slot milled perpendicular to the blade. Northfield has no idea what that was for and is sure they didn't do it. I machined an aluminum slug to fill that in. If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to provide a BOM of what I used.
<IMG_2719.jpeg> <IMG_2702.jpeg> <Enclosure partial.jpg>
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Re: Looking for a band saw the size of a Minimax 16/Felder FB510 or so in the upper Midwest
#Bandsaw
Thanks all for the feedback.
The parts are from Automation Direct. My constraint was that I didn't want to exceed the existing footprint of the saw with a big VFD enclosure, and the logical place to mount it was under the motor. That limited me to about a 10" wide x 6" deep box. I ended up using a 10x10x6, but if I could do it again, I would get a 10x14x6 or so - that extra couple inches would have made cramming all the stuff inside a lot easier.
I used a Weg 3HP VFD (my saw is 2HP, so I upsized in case I ever replace the motor) which is pretty compact. My shop is in my house and I have trouble with VFDs tripping my arc-fault breakers, so I put in an input EMI filter to keep the saw from causing problems in my house. The enclosure also has a 25A disconnect switch, a pilot light, and a 12v power supply. I wanted to do remote speed control and programming, so I opted for the remote display, which is what required the 12v supply.
The controls are 22m buttons from Automation Direct. These are pretty cookie-cutter parts. The VFD is setup to run in a 3-wire mode with a normally open start switch going to one digital input and a normally closed stop switch going to another one. The knob on my control panel controls the speed from about 3Hz to 66Hz, which gives me a range of very slow for setting blade tracking up to about 5000fpm if I overspeed my 900RPM motor slightly (slightly meaning 10% to about 1000RPM).
The enclosure was heavily modified to get all the stuff in plus cooling. I have a Bridgeport that I did most of the drilling and cutting on, however I confess I cut a couple corners in the interest of time and due to the awkwardness of clamping something as wobbly and large as this box, so the rear louver cutout and the drilled cooling hole pattern on the bottom aren't exactly machinery-tolerance.
The airflow of the VFD is bottom to top. I don't like top-mounted vents, so I drilled a bunch of intake holes at the bottom of the enclosure and the air exits the louvered vent out the back.
Most of the disconnect switches like this use remote handles and are shaft driven. I mounted the disconnect itself where it had to go in the box and then carefully measured where to drill the door for the handle.
To mount the user controls I got a piece of steel plate and drilled through the back of the saw housing. The blade guard slides up and down on the side, so I couldn't mount it there. The user control box is a 6x6x4 Hubbell-Weigmann enclosure. I made a custom faceplate for the buttons and VFD screen and had to hog out two sides of the 6x6 box to get stuff to fit, but I'm happy with how that turned out.
For some reason my saw had a strange slot milled perpendicular to the blade. Northfield has no idea what that was for and is sure they didn't do it. I machined an aluminum slug to fill that in.
If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to provide a BOM of what I used.
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Re: Looking for a band saw the size of a Minimax 16/Felder FB510 or so in the upper Midwest
#Bandsaw
Wow, that is a super clean install. Ive wired a few VFDs, but mine are just in plywood boxes next to the machines, lol! Were those enclosures and switches plug and play with the specific VFD you purchased, or did you custom fab those for the VFD you purchased?
Patrick
Wow TJ , super nice - this is totally what I need to be looking for On Oct 13, 2020, at 10:15 PM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote:
?My bandsaw refurbishing is underway. I finished installing a VFD in a slightly too-small enclosure and mounted the controls in a more ergonomical place. The big job was dealing with the worn bore on the bottom wheel - my dad is a machinist and he helped bore the wheel and make a sleeve for the motor shaft. I have ordered a heavier spring from Iturra and a couple fences from Northfield - the conventional fence, and the resaw fence. I'm still fine tuning, but I think it's going to work out pretty well.? Thanks again for the help.
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Re: Looking for a band saw the size of a Minimax 16/Felder FB510 or so in the upper Midwest
#Bandsaw
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Show quoted text
Wow TJ , super nice - this is totally what I need to be looking for On Oct 13, 2020, at 10:15 PM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote:
?My bandsaw refurbishing is underway. I finished installing a VFD in a slightly too-small enclosure and mounted the controls in a more ergonomical place. The big job was dealing with the worn bore on the bottom wheel - my dad is a machinist and he helped bore the wheel and make a sleeve for the motor shaft.
I have ordered a heavier spring from Iturra and a couple fences from Northfield - the conventional fence, and the resaw fence. I'm still fine tuning, but I think it's going to work out pretty well.? Thanks again for the help.
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imran
