Yes David but this time it's different, it's a unicorn. Sorry for that it was my 3rd personality that made me type this.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: "'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@...> Date: 2017-01-23 11:42 AM (GMT-05:00) To: "rcorselli@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@...> Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250
?
I was wondering when the top-hat bushing subject would emerge again - it¡¯s been almost a month since we beat that horse to death. ? :-)
David Best
If you have the 30 mm spindle, you don't need the 1.25", just a couple ?top hat bushings. They work just fine, and you'll save $1000+. The router spindle is handy, although you will swear at it every time you use it. Hate that f#cking collet wrench!
Jason
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture?
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765
|
Uh-oh!
What did i start?
Just to be clear i did not bring it up ;) On Monday, January 23, 2017, 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
I was wondering when the top-hat bushing subject would emerge again - it¡¯s been almost a month since we beat that horse to death. ? :-)
David Best
If you have the 30 mm spindle, you don't need the 1.25", just a couple ?top hat bushings. They work just fine, and you'll save $1000+. The router spindle is handy, although you will swear at it every time you use it. Hate that f#cking collet wrench!
Jason
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture?
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765
|
I installed it on my router table.
The original Bosch router spinder runout is 0.002, after installing the muscle chuck, the runout is 0.003.?
I followed the following video to get the minimal runout.
James
?
I have had bad experience with Musclechucks - excessive runout - like 0.015¡± - your mileage may vary.
David Best
You can get a muscle chuck, so do not need the wrench to install/remove the router bit.
James
|
Sorry david,
I have been doing lots of reading and sorting through post/links in the last 12 hours. It is easy to loose track. On Monday, January 23, 2017, 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
To clarify, what I said was that there are different air coupler styles used in the USA, and they are not all interoperable or compatible. ? This is true of safety and conventional couplers. ??
If you look at this web page you will see there are several different styles of couplers in addition to sizes - Industrial, ARO, Truflate, HighFlo, ISO, etc.: ?
The page shows the profile of the various male connectors - that¡¯s what you want to match on.
David Best
Mac,
Im looking at this stuff right now trying to place a order. Im actually going to use the prevosta hose also.
David Best mentioned that some of those safety push button fitting are not compatible with our american tools. I will be running al 1/4 hose off 3/4 drops.?I imagine in such a case for the connection to my drops i want 3/4 to 1/4. Then for my hose to tool if using 1/4 hose i want 1/4 to 1/4?
On Monday, January 23, 2017, mac campshure ?mac512002@...?[felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote: ?
Patrick: ??are the safety quick couplings i use. ? martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-332-2330 cell 608-824-0023 fax Designing and building for 46 years
?I believe Templton is pretty far west of me. I am in?Natick 20 minutes due west of Boston.
I am glad i started this dialogue and appreciative of all that have participated. Even after some online research i had left out a few key details. Namely?a drain?cock for my compressor, air regulators at all my?drops for regulating the pressure in my nailers and a automatic drain for the end of my line, and the?button quick connect and disconnects Mac suggested. All key?features if you ask me that will add up to just one more?component of my shop done 100% right?the first time.?
I have a feeling the price of all this will near 1K vrs a few hundred bucks i thought?but it will be worth it. Everytime i bock at taking a component of my shop?to the enth degree and i?heed to patients as apposed to the tempation of a quick solution i end up so much more appreciative in the end. Add to that when?it comes time to get some work done?in my shop and i see the fruits of my labor pay for them self?in dividends. When?it comes to work flow productivity and quality of the end product my time patients and resources spent all seem more than well?worth it.
Thank you all for the guidance and help.
On Sunday, January 22, 2017, Lance Clifford ?offaces@...?[ felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote: ?The shop was at Day Mill Townhouses, 382 Baldwinville Road, Templeton, MA. Anywhere close to you?
I considered sloping the line away from the compressor, as recommended by Brian and David Best, but in that application the compresor was at the rear of the building adjacent to the rollup door. We had a fairly large verticle compressor, the feed came off the top horizontally into a filter and two dryer/water separators, then again horizontally to a T fitting with the feed going up and about a two foot length of pipe going down with a drain cock at the bottom. The separators were clear..., so water level was easily noted and both had drain cocks. No oiler, as we used air for nailguns, but also for HVLP. With the separators water being at more or less eye level they served as a more frequent reminder to drain water from them, the two foot drop and compressor itself and that was easily done due to all drains being at one location.
Sloping away from the compressor meant a drain exit aimed out the front of the building at customer parking, and you know how skittish THEY can be when startled.... lol We completed the setup during summer and originally ran a drain hose to outside through a gap at the bottom of the rollup door track. Worked fine until winter, when moisture in the line outside froze. It WOULD release a second or two after drain cock was open and also blow a slug of ice with a bang towards whatever piece of equipment or person happened to be close. Not good, so hose was removed and all was drained to floor. There wasn't often much water to drain so it evaporated quickly.
I was unaware of automatic compressor drain systems at the time. Otherwise I may have installed one if it could have drained all four drain cocks.
We built a workbench along the wall below the air line, with three drops, each with coil hose. A fourth connection at the end of line was where air for the HVLP sprayer took off. Coil hose wasn't ideal for mobility when spraying.
|
?Hmm im in Mass,
Anywho,
I think im gonna go 3/4 L rated copper pitched towards my compressor. I will put a ball valvebefore ?my regulator and a flex line?to my compressor. I will go up then?back down for all my drops and secure them?somehow to my ceiling as they will only drop maybe 6" after going up 4-6"..
Then a?3/4 ARO metal?filter regulator combo.?
Then?15' coilhose at all my drops.
I want to do this once a d do it right.
No blue hose for me after reading a bit about it. On Sunday, January 22, 2017, Lance Clifford ?offaces@...?[ felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@?> wrote: ?This... exactly as Brian suggests..
Type L copper (type M, the thinner wall tubing, has been known to leak when new on less than rare occasions..., according to several long time plumbers), slope slightly back towards origin, drops from top of line. A filter at source should do. This is exactly what we did on the last shop in Massachusetts and it worked well. |
?I run no oil at all in my lines, in AZ, moisture isn¡¯t a huge concern except for a few months during the high humidity season. For nailers and such, I keep a bottle of Senco oil and drop in 5 drops on occasion when I¡¯m using them, that seems to be adequate for my needs.
Make sure you use the heavier copper, type L I think it is. It is more dent and damage resistant and doesn¡¯t cost all that much more. As for brands of filter/regulators, Parker Hannefin, ARO, Ingersoll or Devilbiss.
Height shouldn¡¯t be an issue, run your main line at 7¡¯ drops up and over and bring them back down to 4¡¯ on the wall or some such. I was just trying to source a FRL and had the same thought. I will want air to blow stuff off, machines work so forth. The only tools i use that require oil are my nail guns.?
My thought is i only need a regulator filter.?
I had looked over a bunch of literature online. I noticed it as suggested a slope drops off the top of the line. With my low celings this could become a pita. On the other hands i can probably solder up my main run with drop on the ground or a bench then just have to solder a couple small joints adjacent to?my floor joist.
Thank you for chiming in. I had a sence you might have some experience with this one. Kinda great this place. Most everyone has crossed every bridge i may encounter.
Any advice on regulator brands or does it not matter much?
On Sunday, January 22, 2017, Brian Lamb ?blamb11@...?[felder- woodworking] < felder-woodworking@?> wrote: ?Use copper, run your drops off the top of the line, make a U to drop back down. Run down hill slope on the main line, then at the end run a drop off the bottom, put a gate valve on the bottom and drain any condensation in the lines daily. A filter/regulator just after the compressor is enough for what you are doing. Caution on lubricators, as you may want a line without for spraying, oil in all of your compressed air isn¡¯t always what you want.
Ok so more help.
I am reluctant to ask as not to be a pest. On the other hand such quick simple answers are to be found here.
I have spent a good amount of time online reading and watching videos on proper plumbing for compresed air.
I have become tired of moving my contractors compressor all over my shop. I suppose i could just run a flex air line along the floor but im kthe ndamneat freak and that would just never fly for me. I'm a clean up after every operation kinda guy. It keeps my brain organized.
Anyway i was considering the soft air lines with the quick fits. I have resigned to going 3/4 copper with 1/2 drops. I'm will only use air for my air clamps and a brad and pin nailer. Being a neat freak i stick to my Festool sanders.?
I will put a on off ball valve and flex hose to my compressor. My run is only 20' long with three drops. The question is do i need a filter and lubricator at every drop or can i just put one at the begining of my run near my actual compressor.
I will not be upgrading my compressor anytime soon as it is very low on my list of "must have" priorities. When i do i am apt to go for the 10 gallon ultra quiet California air unit for my needs. The tool addict in me wants a two stage compressor but for my needs i don't want to give up the space or listen to the darn thing.?
So drops do i need a filter at each one?
Any other insight is welcomed.
??
|
|
|
I was wondering when the top-hat bushing subject would emerge again - it¡¯s been almost a month since we beat that horse to death. ? :-)
David Best
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
If you have the 30 mm spindle, you don't need the 1.25", just a couple ?top hat bushings. They work just fine, and you'll save $1000+. The router spindle is handy, although you will swear at it every time you use it. Hate that f#cking collet wrench!
Jason
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture?
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765
|
I have been using the machine with top hat bushing and a 30mm spindle to date and purchasing all 1.25 tooling?and it works fine.
My intent has been to purchase the 1.25 spindle at some point just to simplify things.
Here is a example. Recently I planned to cutt the?groove for my floating pannels using the grooving portion of a 1.25?Freeborn cope and stick set i purchased?for another project a couple months ago. When i went to do so i quickly realised that i could not use my top hat busings on my 30mm spindle?with such a thin cutter and top hats for a stack of?much thicker cutters.
This resulted in a panicked trip to my local woodcraft to grab a 1/4 Whiteside slot cutter for my router table.
This is now my motivation for that 4mm to 8mm slot cutter...
This project has way to many opperations to fuss with half assed setups and or the break down and setup of each machine everytime i need to perform a operation.?
Wll i guess some would just deal. I know i will be doing more and more work like this as time goes by as that is the way it has worked over the last few years since i started building my shop. It was intended for hobby use knowing and in the hopes it would get usd for work purposes being im a finish carpenter. I hardley work in my shop full time but as time goes bu it is becoming more and more the case. I can see down the road being 75% shop based 25% site based. At the least 50/50..
On Monday, January 23, 2017, Jason Holtz jholtzy@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
If you have the 30 mm spindle, you don't need the 1.25", just a couple ?top hat bushings. They work just fine, and you'll save $1000+. The router spindle is handy, although you will swear at it every time you use it. Hate that f#cking collet wrench!
Jason
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765
|
I was wondering when the top-hat bushing subject would emerge again - it¡¯s been almost a month since we beat that horse to death. ? :-)
David Best
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
If you have the 30 mm spindle, you don't need the 1.25", just a couple ?top hat bushings. They work just fine, and you'll save $1000+. The router spindle is handy, although you will swear at it every time you use it. Hate that f#cking collet wrench!
Jason
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765
|
I have had bad experience with Musclechucks - excessive runout - like 0.015¡± - your mileage may vary.
David Best
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
You can get a muscle chuck, so do not need the wrench to install/remove the router bit.
James
|
To clarify, what I said was that there are different air coupler styles used in the USA, and they are not all interoperable or compatible. This is true of safety and conventional couplers.
If you look at this web page you will see there are several different styles of couplers in addition to sizes - Industrial, ARO, Truflate, HighFlo, ISO, etc.:
The page shows the profile of the various male connectors - that¡¯s what you want to match on.
David Best
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 23, 2017, at 8:15 AM, patrick walsh pwalsh651@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
Mac,
Im looking at this stuff right now trying to place a order. Im actually going to use the prevosta hose also.
David Best mentioned that some of those safety push button fitting are not compatible with our american tools. I will be running al 1/4 hose off 3/4 drops. I imagine in such a case for the connection to my drops i want 3/4 to 1/4. Then for my hose to tool if using 1/4 hose i want 1/4 to 1/4?
On Monday, January 23, 2017, mac campshure mac512002@... <mailto:mac512002@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@... <mailto:felder-woodworking@...>> wrote:
Patrick: prevostusa.com <> are the safety quick couplings i use.
martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-332-2330 cell
608-824-0023 fax
<>airtightclamps@... <mailto:airtightclamps@...>
airtightclamps.com <>
Designing and building for 46 years
From: "patrick walsh <>pwalsh651@... <mailto:pwalsh651@...> [felder-woodworking]" < <>felder-woodworking@ <mailto:felder-woodworking@...>yahoogroups.com <mailto:felder-woodworking@...>>
To: " <>felder-woodworking@ <mailto:felder-woodworking@...>yahoogroups.com <mailto:felder-woodworking@...>" < <>felder-woodworking@ <mailto:felder-woodworking@...>yahoogroups.com <mailto:felder-woodworking@...>>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2017 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Air lines
I believe Templton is pretty far west of me. I am in Natick 20 minutes due west of Boston.
I am glad i started this dialogue and appreciative of all that have participated. Even after some online research i had left out a few key details. Namely a drain cock for my compressor, air regulators at all my drops for regulating the pressure in my nailers and a automatic drain for the end of my line, and the button quick connect and disconnects Mac suggested. All key features if you ask me that will add up to just one more component of my shop done 100% right the first time.
I have a feeling the price of all this will near 1K vrs a few hundred bucks i thought but it will be worth it. Everytime i bock at taking a component of my shop to the enth degree and i heed to patients as apposed to the tempation of a quick solution i end up so much more appreciative in the end. Add to that when it comes time to get some work done in my shop and i see the fruits of my labor pay for them self in dividends. When it comes to work flow productivity and quality of the end product my time patients and resources spent all seem more than well worth it.
Thank you all for the guidance and help.
On Sunday, January 22, 2017, Lance Clifford <>offaces@... <mailto:offaces@...> [felder-woodworking] < <>felder-woodworking@ <mailto:felder-woodworking@...>yahoogroups.com <mailto:felder-woodworking@...>> wrote:
The shop was at Day Mill Townhouses, 382 Baldwinville Road, Templeton, MA. Anywhere close to you?
I considered sloping the line away from the compressor, as recommended by Brian and David Best, but in that application the compresor was at the rear of the building adjacent to the rollup door. We had a fairly large verticle compressor, the feed came off the top horizontally into a filter and two dryer/water separators, then again horizontally to a T fitting with the feed going up and about a two foot length of pipe going down with a drain cock at the bottom. The separators were clear..., so water level was easily noted and both had drain cocks. No oiler, as we used air for nailguns, but also for HVLP. With the separators water being at more or less eye level they served as a more frequent reminder to drain water from them, the two foot drop and compressor itself and that was easily done due to all drains being at one location.
Sloping away from the compressor meant a drain exit aimed out the front of the building at customer parking, and you know how skittish THEY can be when startled.... lol We completed the setup during summer and originally ran a drain hose to outside through a gap at the bottom of the rollup door track. Worked fine until winter, when moisture in the line outside froze. It WOULD release a second or two after drain cock was open and also blow a slug of ice with a bang towards whatever piece of equipment or person happened to be close. Not good, so hose was removed and all was drained to floor. There wasn't often much water to drain so it evaporated quickly.
I was unaware of automatic compressor drain systems at the time. Otherwise I may have installed one if it could have drained all four drain cocks.
We built a workbench along the wall below the air line, with three drops, each with coil hose. A fourth connection at the end of line was where air for the HVLP sprayer took off. Coil hose wasn't ideal for mobility when spraying.
From: patrick walsh <>pwalsh651@... <mailto:pwalsh651@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@? <>yahoogroups.com <>>;
To: felder-woodworking@? <>yahoogroups.com <> <felder-woodworking@? <>yahoogroups.com <>>;
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Air lines
Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2017 9:57:29 PM
Hmm im in Mass,
Anywho,
I think im gonna go 3/4 L rated copper pitched towards my compressor. I will put a ball valvebefore my regulator and a flex line to my compressor. I will go up then back down for all my drops and secure them somehow to my ceiling as they will only drop maybe 6" after going up 4-6"..
Then a 3/4 ARO metal filter regulator combo.
Then 15' coilhose at all my drops.
I want to do this once a d do it right.
No blue hose for me after reading a bit about it.
On Sunday, January 22, 2017, Lance Clifford <>offaces@... <mailto:offaces@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@? <>yahoogroups.com <>> wrote:
This... exactly as Brian suggests..
Type L copper (type M, the thinner wall tubing, has been known to leak when new on less than rare occasions..., according to several long time plumbers), slope slightly back towards origin, drops from top of line. A filter at source should do. This is exactly what we did on the last shop in Massachusetts and it worked well.
From: Brian Lamb <>blamb11@... <mailto:blamb11@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@? <>yahoogroups.com <>>;
To: FOG <felder-woodworking@? <>yahoogroups.com <>>;
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Air lines
Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2017 9:07:28 PM
I run no oil at all in my lines, in AZ, moisture isn¡¯t a huge concern except for a few months during the high humidity season. For nailers and such, I keep a bottle of Senco oil and drop in 5 drops on occasion when I¡¯m using them, that seems to be adequate for my needs.
Make sure you use the heavier copper, type L I think it is. It is more dent and damage resistant and doesn¡¯t cost all that much more. As for brands of filter/regulators, Parker Hannefin, ARO, Ingersoll or Devilbiss.
Height shouldn¡¯t be an issue, run your main line at 7¡¯ drops up and over and bring them back down to 4¡¯ on the wall or some such.
Brian Lamb
<>blamb11@... <mailto:blamb11@...>
www.lambtoolworks.com <>
On Jan 22, 2017, at 1:41 PM, patrick walsh <>pwalsh651@... <mailto:pwalsh651@...> [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@? <>yahoogroups.com <>> wrote:
I was just trying to source a FRL and had the same thought. I will want air to blow stuff off, machines work so forth. The only tools i use that require oil are my nail guns.
My thought is i only need a regulator filter.
I had looked over a bunch of literature online. I noticed it as suggested a slope drops off the top of the line. With my low celings this could become a pita. On the other hands i can probably solder up my main run with drop on the ground or a bench then just have to solder a couple small joints adjacent to my floor joist.
Thank you for chiming in. I had a sence you might have some experience with this one. Kinda great this place. Most everyone has crossed every bridge i may encounter.
Any advice on regulator brands or does it not matter much?
On Sunday, January 22, 2017, Brian Lamb <>blamb11@... <mailto:blamb11@...> [felder- woodworking] <felder-woodworking@? <>yahoogroups.com <>> wrote:
Use copper, run your drops off the top of the line, make a U to drop back down. Run down hill slope on the main line, then at the end run a drop off the bottom, put a gate valve on the bottom and drain any condensation in the lines daily. A filter/regulator just after the compressor is enough for what you are doing. Caution on lubricators, as you may want a line without for spraying, oil in all of your compressed air isn¡¯t always what you want.
Brian Lamb
<> <>blamb11@... <mailto:blamb11@...>
www.lambtoolworks.com <>
On Jan 22, 2017, at 1:08 PM, <> <>apbt1976@... <mailto:apbt1976@...> [ felder-woodworking] < <>felder-woodworking@ <>yahoogroup? <>s.com <>> wrote:
Ok so more help.
I am reluctant to ask as not to be a pest. On the other hand such quick simple answers are to be found here.
I have spent a good amount of time online reading and watching videos on proper plumbing for compresed air.
I have become tired of moving my contractors compressor all over my shop. I suppose i could just run a flex air line along the floor but im kthe ndamneat freak and that would just never fly for me. I'm a clean up after every operation kinda guy. It keeps my brain organized.
Anyway i was considering the soft air lines with the quick fits. I have resigned to going 3/4 copper with 1/2 drops. I'm will only use air for my air clamps and a brad and pin nailer. Being a neat freak i stick to my Festool sanders.
I will put a on off ball valve and flex hose to my compressor. My run is only 20' long with three drops. The question is do i need a filter and lubricator at every drop or can i just put one at the begining of my run near my actual compressor.
I will not be upgrading my compressor anytime soon as it is very low on my list of "must have" priorities. When i do i am apt to go for the 10 gallon ultra quiet California air unit for my needs. The tool addict in me wants a two stage compressor but for my needs i don't want to give up the space or listen to the darn thing.
So drops do i need a filter at each one?
Any other insight is welcomed.
|
You can get a muscle chuck, so do not need the wrench to install/remove the router bit.
James
?
If you have the 30 mm spindle, you don't need the 1.25", just a couple ?top hat bushings. They work just fine, and you'll save $1000+. The router spindle is handy, although you will swear at it every time you use it. Hate that f#cking collet wrench!
Jason
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
|
If you have the 30 mm spindle, you don't need the 1.25", just a couple ?top hat bushings. They work just fine, and you'll save $1000+. The router spindle is handy, although you will swear at it every time you use it. Hate that f#cking collet wrench!
Jason
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765
|
Mac,
Im looking at this stuff right now trying to place a order. Im actually going to use the prevosta hose also.
David Best mentioned that some of those safety push button fitting are not compatible with our american tools. I will be running al 1/4 hose off 3/4 drops.?I imagine in such a case for the connection to my drops i want 3/4 to 1/4. Then for my hose to tool if using 1/4 hose i want 1/4 to 1/4?
?
Patrick: ? are the safety quick couplings i use. ? martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-332-2330 cell 608-824-0023 fax
Designing and building for 46 years
?
I believe Templton is pretty far west of me. I am in?Natick 20 minutes due west of Boston.
I am glad i started this dialogue and appreciative of all that have participated. Even after some online research i had left out a few key details. Namely?a drain?cock for my compressor, air regulators at all my?drops for regulating the pressure in my nailers and a automatic drain for the end of my line, and the?button quick connect and disconnects Mac suggested. All key?features if you ask me that will add up to just one more?component of my shop done 100% right?the first time.?
I have a feeling the price of all this will near 1K vrs a few hundred bucks i thought?but it will be worth it. Everytime i bock at taking a component of my shop?to the enth degree and i?heed to patients as apposed to the tempation of a quick solution i end up so much more appreciative in the end. Add to that when?it comes time to get some work done?in my shop and i see the fruits of my labor pay for them self?in dividends. When?it comes to work flow productivity and quality of the end product my time patients and resources spent all seem more than well?worth it.
Thank you all for the guidance and help.
On Sunday, January 22, 2017, Lance Clifford offaces@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
?
The shop was at Day Mill Townhouses, 382 Baldwinville Road, Templeton, MA. Anywhere close to you?
I considered sloping the line away from the compressor, as recommended by Brian and David Best, but in that application the compresor was at the rear of the building adjacent to the rollup door. We had a fairly large verticle compressor, the feed came off the top horizontally into a filter and two dryer/water separators, then again horizontally to a T fitting with the feed going up and about a two foot length of pipe going down with a drain cock at the bottom. The separators were clear..., so water level was easily noted and both had drain cocks. No oiler, as we used air for nailguns, but also for HVLP. With the separators water being at more or less eye level they served as a more frequent reminder to drain water from them, the two foot drop and compressor itself and that
was easily done due to all drains being at one location.
Sloping away from the compressor meant a drain exit aimed out the front of the building at customer parking, and you know how skittish THEY can be when startled.... lol We completed the setup during summer and originally ran a drain hose to outside through a gap at the bottom of the rollup door track. Worked fine until winter, when moisture in the line outside froze. It WOULD release a second or two after drain cock was open and also blow a slug of ice with a bang towards whatever piece of equipment or person happened to be close. Not good, so hose was removed and all was drained to floor. There wasn't often much water to drain so it evaporated quickly.
I was unaware of automatic compressor drain systems at the time. Otherwise I may have installed one if it could have drained all four drain cocks.
We built a workbench along the wall below the air line, with three
drops, each with coil hose. A fourth connection at the end of line was where air for the HVLP sprayer took off. Coil hose wasn't ideal for mobility when spraying.
|
?
Hmm im in Mass,
Anywho,
I think im gonna go 3/4 L rated copper pitched towards my compressor. I will put a ball valvebefore ?my regulator and a flex line?to my compressor. I will go up then?back down for all my drops and secure them?somehow to my ceiling as they will only drop maybe 6" after going up 4-6"..
Then a?3/4 ARO metal?filter regulator combo.?
Then?15' coilhose at all my drops.
I want to do this once a d do it right.
No blue hose for me after reading a bit about it. On Sunday, January 22, 2017, Lance Clifford offaces@... [felder-woodworking]
< felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com> wrote:
?
This... exactly as Brian suggests..
Type L copper (type M, the thinner wall tubing, has been known to leak when new on less than rare occasions..., according to several long time plumbers), slope slightly back towards origin, drops from top of line. A filter at source should do. This is exactly what we did on the last shop in Massachusetts and it worked well. |
?
I run no oil at all in my lines, in AZ, moisture isn¡¯t a huge concern except for a few months during the high humidity season. For nailers and such, I keep a bottle of Senco oil and drop in 5 drops on occasion when I¡¯m using them, that seems to be adequate for my needs.
Make sure you use the heavier copper, type L I think it is. It is more dent and damage resistant and doesn¡¯t cost all that much more. As for brands of filter/regulators, Parker Hannefin, ARO, Ingersoll or Devilbiss.
Height shouldn¡¯t be an issue, run your main line at 7¡¯ drops up and over and bring them back down to 4¡¯ on the wall or some such.
I was just trying to source a FRL and had the same thought. I will want air to blow stuff off, machines work
so forth. The only tools i use that require oil are my nail guns.?
My thought is i only need a regulator filter.?
I had looked over a bunch of literature online. I noticed it as suggested a slope drops off the top of the line. With my low celings this could become a pita. On the other hands i can probably solder up my main run with drop on the ground or a bench then just have to solder a couple small joints adjacent to?my floor joist.
Thank you for chiming in. I had a sence you might have some experience with this one. Kinda great this place. Most everyone has crossed every bridge i may encounter.
Any advice on regulator brands or does it not matter much?
On Sunday, January 22, 2017, Brian Lamb ?blamb11@...?[felder- woodworking] < felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com> wrote: ?Use copper, run your drops off the top of the line, make a U to drop back down. Run down hill slope on the main line, then at the end run a drop off the bottom, put a gate valve on the bottom and drain any condensation in the lines daily. A filter/regulator just after the
compressor is enough for what you are doing. Caution on lubricators, as you may want a line without for spraying, oil in all of your compressed air isn¡¯t always what you want.
Ok so more help.
I am reluctant to ask as not to be a pest. On the other hand such quick simple answers are to be found here.
I have spent a good amount of time online reading and watching videos on proper plumbing for compresed air.
I have
become tired of moving my contractors compressor all over my shop. I suppose i could just run a flex air line along the floor but im kthe ndamneat freak and that would just never fly for me. I'm a clean up after every operation kinda guy. It keeps my brain organized.
Anyway i was considering the soft air lines with the quick fits. I have resigned to going 3/4 copper with 1/2 drops. I'm will only use air for my air clamps and a brad and pin nailer. Being a neat freak i stick to my Festool sanders.?
I will put a on off ball valve and flex hose to my compressor. My run is only 20' long with three drops. The question is do i need a filter and lubricator at every drop or can i just put one at the begining of my run near my
actual compressor.
I will not be upgrading my compressor anytime soon as it is very low on my list of "must have" priorities. When i do i am apt to go for the 10 gallon ultra quiet California air unit for my needs. The tool addict in me wants a two stage compressor but for my needs i don't want to give up the space or listen to the darn thing.?
So drops do i need a filter at each one?
Any other insight is welcomed.
??
|
|
|
Funny but about two weeks ago there was a Hoffman unit on Woodweb for 2K. It was before i started this project " but i knew it was coming" and i passed on it. Im kinda kicking myself. It was missing one of the fence scales but otherwise was in great shape.?
Yah the festool router is a waste but by the time i use norfab to pipe the sytem up to my dust collection i could had just bought the festool router.
I know i do a lot of complaining about cost for a guy unwilling to settle for much other than the best. I suppose i could encose the table under my sawstop and run a PC. My buddy "the client"?actually has a one he is willing to give me as a thank you. Still my shop is small and i dint want that big table under my ts. From time to time in my small shop i need to move my ts as it is in the runway of my j/p. Plus i dont much have the time to build the dam thing.
Im sickntoday hence screwing around online. And im waiting to go over more drawing this evening to commence building tomorrow.?
The router spindle on my shaper?is the quickest solution to that Kreg bit and a sliding table with a stop that has no slop. It is however almost?as expensive as another dedicated router table. On the other hand the second dedicated router table sure helps with work flow and watsted setup and break down time.
On Monday, January 23, 2017, John jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
Yah the manual cutter/notching system that uses the Hoffman dovetailed unit, only about 8000.00 to 15000.00 depending on options. Probably not bad for a dedicated face frame kitchen maker. A Festool router is a waste in a router table better off with a variable speed PC 3-1/4 hp motor and the router lift. The Kreg setup keeps life simple which is worth a lot in the aggravation free department.?
-------- Original message -------- From: "patrick walsh pwalsh651@... [felder-woodworking]" < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> Date: 2017-01-23 10:41 AM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250
?
Manaul cutter?
I have the Kreg bit just chucked up i a OF1400 on my Festool CMS router table?with the?sliding table. It is a near replica of the Kreg jig intended for a traditional router table setup with t-track.
The issue is the flex in the fence system of the festool sliding table. I magine the Kreg system mounted in t-track has zero flex.?
At the moment its not my money im spending?its the clients. He is assuming the cost of all tooling required for the project. Well kinda im spendimg a few bucks of my own. You cant charge everything to the client. Well i guess i could but i might not have work for very long.
I would have a hard time sneaking the contruction of a?router table, another router and the Kreg jig into the bill. Doing things as i do i would build?the unit in the side table of my SawStop. I would probably use a Jessem Router Lift and T-track $300.?Then add the 3.5 horse Festool router for a about?$1000 out the door. The??and the?Kreg jig $397 i think and suddenly the few shaper cutters?i purchased seem like deal to the customer.
It is crazy how many work station one could use when doing a project of this scope. Easily i could use two shapers. Two router tables and two hamd held routers setup to a CT. I feel like i have a serious tool collection "and i do" but man it never ends! On Monday, January 23, 2017, John jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
?
Not trying to spend your money too quick but if you're going to be doing more face frame work that Kreg bit and fence system is the way to go according to some friends that do that face frame stuff. I do the very occasional face frame and that manual cutter is a pain in the ass in comparison.?
-------- Original message -------- From: "patrick walsh pwalsh651@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@yahoogroup s.com> Date: 2017-01-23 9:54 AM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@yahoogroups .com Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250
?
At the momen i only want the router spindle for one reason. I am building a very large kitchen along with?a number of bathroom vanities. They all have?beaded?face frames,?the inside edge of the doorstyle and rails are also beaded.
At The moment my workflow for face frame door style and rail constructin?goes as such.?
Mill my face frame stock on the AD941 to 7/8". Rip to 2" on the table saw. Move to festool router table with POS?sliding table with custom made fence/scale/stop to cut the haunch. Go to?the shaper to run the bead then back to the router table tear?it down and put in a slot cutter to run the slot to accept the pannel. Then it is off to the FD250 to bore the mortise. To date i have made one vanity and i just used a floating tennon for the joinery. I plan to cut a proper tennon into the rail portion for door construction from here on out on the shaper.
The reason for the high speed router spindle is the ability to use the Kreg nothing bit that creates the hounch on a sliding table that has zero flex or give. To date to cut the haunch i use the sliding table on my festoom CMS table with the workpiece handing over the end of the fence running past the cutter. The other end is?backed up aginst a stop block that i indexed to a rule. I made a new 48" long fenc for my CMS out of hard maple and Incra T-track so i could get repeatable cuts. The CMs Sliding table and fence have a amount of flex to them. This creates problems with the haunch being dead nuts perfect. For the most part its fine but im not much into fine. I like perfect and reliable perfection.
The whole process is rather a pita and i am sure this is not how a true cab?shop would do it. I have seen those Hoffman notching machines and man what i would give for one of those. On the other hand i love to build stuff and so long?as the customer understands what they are asking of me i am happy to take on a pita project. The customer is a fellow builder and carpenter, just not a?finish carpemter?so he gets it and is just happy to have someone willing to do the project for a reasonible rate that takes pride is their work that will procide a quality end product.
So thats why the high speed router spindle..
On Monday, January 23, 2017, 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:
?
Glen, I¡¯m not a fan of the router spindle either. ? Why don¡¯t you just build (or buy) yourself one of these - probably half the cost of a router spindle:
David Best On Jan 22, 2017, at 10:46 PM, GLEN chris3645@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
?
Well I dont have my shaper yet but I bit the bullet and just got all three, not because iI need them but because of frustration when I cant buy a cutter head because I don't have the right spindle
This is how I understand it..... but I don't know anything yet
30 mill is a standard EURO cutter
1.25 mil is a standard US cutter
Spindle shaper I can use simple 1/2 inch router cutters for small tasks as a round over
Again I dont know what I m talking about but we will find out when my machine arrives
-----Original Message-----
From: patrick walsh pwalsh651@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroup s.com>
To: felder-woodworking <felder-woodworking@yahoogroup s.com>
Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2017 7:30 am
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250
?
I had thought about end mill bits.
I also noticed the rangate cutters.
Also Mac i looked into the cutter you suggested. It looks to me to be a quality?square chisel mortising bit. I am?pretty sure i need a specific chuck to use such a cutter on my FD250.
I originaly started purchasing most of my machines for hobby use with the hopes that beung a finish carpenter " i would use them if i had them" to make a living. This has increasingly become?my experience. Kinda a "if you build it they will come" mentality.
Point is as the work requires i keep crossing bridges and or running into impasses and or finding new useses and applications for my equiptment. Point in mentioning is as im sure we all know it can at times be very costly. As of late i have been using my shaper a ton. As Mac suggested in my dust collector thread sometimes its one step forward three steps back.At The ?moment it sure feels that way.
With this current project i can get the client to assume at least half the cost of tooling if not the full cost. I do need to resonible though hence a end mill bit maybe being a better solution for me than a a square mortise bit as then i also need a pricey chuck. I can charge the bit to the customer but the chuck would be difficult.
Im having the same problme with shaper tooling. I only have a 30mm spindle. I keep running into instances where i need a specific cutter like tomorrow. Everything ends up being 1.25 that can be had in days as apposed to weeks. The end result is shims. Inthe short long term i just need to piny up the $500 for a 1.25 spindle.?
The only problem is it is really never ending. After the 1.25 spindle i could use high speed router spindle. After that another shaper as having only one is a pita!
As much as i love tools "and i do" it can become quite stressful how much all?this stuff cost.
Sorry for the rant just offering some perspective on the situatuion. Really for the moment i just need the least expensive solution to getting?my machine to cut a straight clean mortise so i can get this dam?kitchen built.?
Long term my shop can use many many additional tools assesories and upgrades.
??
On Sunday, January 22, 2017, andy.giddings@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:
?
Think Mac is spot on based on my experience with the Mortise Attachment. I assumed that the Westccot chuck would be concentric to the spindle, but its very sensitive to the 3 grub screws that lock it onto the spindle (don't know if the FD250 has the same locking method). If the fixture is the same, its very important to adjust the screws evenly while using an accurate bar or dowel in the chuck with a height/dial gauge.
Once I had that sorted out, the birdsmouth cutters performed better. I also found that the Felder cutters were not that sharp - the Rangate cutters are far better out of the box. You might also want to try end mills or two fluted router bits - cut a lot quicker and just as smoothly even with the lower speed compared to a router
|
Patrick: ?prevostusa.com are the safety quick couplings i use. ? martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-332-2330 cell 608-824-0023 fax
Designing and building for 46 years
From: "patrick walsh pwalsh651@... [felder-woodworking]"
To: "felder-woodworking@..."
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2017 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Air lines
?
I believe Templton is pretty far west of me. I am in?Natick 20 minutes due west of Boston.
I am glad i started this dialogue and appreciative of all that have participated. Even after some online research i had left out a few key details. Namely?a drain?cock for my compressor, air regulators at all my?drops for regulating the pressure in my nailers and a automatic drain for the end of my line, and the?button quick connect and disconnects Mac suggested. All key?features if you ask me that will add up to just one more?component of my shop done 100% right?the first time.?
I have a feeling the price of all this will near 1K vrs a few hundred bucks i thought?but it will be worth it. Everytime i bock at taking a component of my shop?to the enth degree and i?heed to patients as apposed to the tempation of a quick solution i end up so much more appreciative in the end. Add to that when?it comes time to get some work done?in my shop and i see the fruits of my labor pay for them self?in dividends. When?it comes to work flow productivity and quality of the end product my time patients and resources spent all seem more than well?worth it.
Thank you all for the guidance and help.
On Sunday, January 22, 2017, Lance Clifford offaces@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
The shop was at Day Mill Townhouses, 382 Baldwinville Road, Templeton, MA. Anywhere close to you?
I considered sloping the line away from the compressor, as recommended by Brian and David Best, but in that application the compresor was at the rear of the building adjacent to the rollup door. We had a fairly large verticle compressor, the feed came off the top horizontally into a filter and two dryer/water separators, then again horizontally to a T fitting with the feed going up and about a two foot length of pipe going down with a drain cock at the bottom. The separators were clear..., so water level was easily noted and both had drain cocks. No oiler, as we used air for nailguns, but also for HVLP. With the separators water being at more or less eye level they served as a more frequent reminder to drain water from them, the two foot drop and compressor itself and that
was easily done due to all drains being at one location.
Sloping away from the compressor meant a drain exit aimed out the front of the building at customer parking, and you know how skittish THEY can be when startled.... lol We completed the setup during summer and originally ran a drain hose to outside through a gap at the bottom of the rollup door track. Worked fine until winter, when moisture in the line outside froze. It WOULD release a second or two after drain cock was open and also blow a slug of ice with a bang towards whatever piece of equipment or person happened to be close. Not good, so hose was removed and all was drained to floor. There wasn't often much water to drain so it evaporated quickly.
I was unaware of automatic compressor drain systems at the time. Otherwise I may have installed one if it could have drained all four drain cocks.
We built a workbench along the wall below the air line, with three
drops, each with coil hose. A fourth connection at the end of line was where air for the HVLP sprayer took off. Coil hose wasn't ideal for mobility when spraying.
|
?
Hmm im in Mass,
Anywho,
I think im gonna go 3/4 L rated copper pitched towards my compressor. I will put a ball valvebefore ?my regulator and a flex line?to my compressor. I will go up then?back down for all my drops and secure them?somehow to my ceiling as they will only drop maybe 6" after going up 4-6"..
Then a?3/4 ARO metal?filter regulator combo.?
Then?15' coilhose at all my drops.
I want to do this once a d do it right.
No blue hose for me after reading a bit about it. On Sunday, January 22, 2017, Lance Clifford offaces@... [felder-woodworking]
< felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com> wrote:
?
This... exactly as Brian suggests..
Type L copper (type M, the thinner wall tubing, has been known to leak when new on less than rare occasions..., according to several long time plumbers), slope slightly back towards origin, drops from top of line. A filter at source should do. This is exactly what we did on the last shop in Massachusetts and it worked well. |
?
I run no oil at all in my lines, in AZ, moisture isn¡¯t a huge concern except for a few months during the high humidity season. For nailers and such, I keep a bottle of Senco oil and drop in 5 drops on occasion when I¡¯m using them, that seems to be adequate for my needs.
Make sure you use the heavier copper, type L I think it is. It is more dent and damage resistant and doesn¡¯t cost all that much more. As for brands of filter/regulators, Parker Hannefin, ARO, Ingersoll or Devilbiss.
Height shouldn¡¯t be an issue, run your main line at 7¡¯ drops up and over and bring them back down to 4¡¯ on the wall or some such.
I was just trying to source a FRL and had the same thought. I will want air to blow stuff off, machines work
so forth. The only tools i use that require oil are my nail guns.?
My thought is i only need a regulator filter.?
I had looked over a bunch of literature online. I noticed it as suggested a slope drops off the top of the line. With my low celings this could become a pita. On the other hands i can probably solder up my main run with drop on the ground or a bench then just have to solder a couple small joints adjacent to?my floor joist.
Thank you for chiming in. I had a sence you might have some experience with this one. Kinda great this place. Most everyone has crossed every bridge i may encounter.
Any advice on regulator brands or does it not matter much?
On Sunday, January 22, 2017, Brian Lamb ?blamb11@...?[felder- woodworking] < felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com> wrote: ?Use copper, run your drops off the top of the line, make a U to drop back down. Run down hill slope on the main line, then at the end run a drop off the bottom, put a gate valve on the bottom and drain any condensation in the lines daily. A filter/regulator just after the
compressor is enough for what you are doing. Caution on lubricators, as you may want a line without for spraying, oil in all of your compressed air isn¡¯t always what you want.
Ok so more help.
I am reluctant to ask as not to be a pest. On the other hand such quick simple answers are to be found here.
I have spent a good amount of time online reading and watching videos on proper plumbing for compresed air.
I have
become tired of moving my contractors compressor all over my shop. I suppose i could just run a flex air line along the floor but im kthe ndamneat freak and that would just never fly for me. I'm a clean up after every operation kinda guy. It keeps my brain organized.
Anyway i was considering the soft air lines with the quick fits. I have resigned to going 3/4 copper with 1/2 drops. I'm will only use air for my air clamps and a brad and pin nailer. Being a neat freak i stick to my Festool sanders.?
I will put a on off ball valve and flex hose to my compressor. My run is only 20' long with three drops. The question is do i need a filter and lubricator at every drop or can i just put one at the begining of my run near my
actual compressor.
I will not be upgrading my compressor anytime soon as it is very low on my list of "must have" priorities. When i do i am apt to go for the 10 gallon ultra quiet California air unit for my needs. The tool addict in me wants a two stage compressor but for my needs i don't want to give up the space or listen to the darn thing.?
So drops do i need a filter at each one?
Any other insight is welcomed.
??
|
|
|
Yah the manual cutter/notching system that uses the Hoffman dovetailed unit, only about 8000.00 to 15000.00 depending on options. Probably not bad for a dedicated face frame kitchen maker. A Festool router is a waste in a router table better off with a variable speed PC 3-1/4 hp motor and the router lift. The Kreg setup keeps life simple which is worth a lot in the aggravation free department.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: "patrick walsh pwalsh651@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@...> Date: 2017-01-23 10:41 AM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@... Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250
?
Manaul cutter?
I have the Kreg bit just chucked up i a OF1400 on my Festool CMS router table?with the?sliding table. It is a near replica of the Kreg jig intended for a traditional router table setup with t-track.
The issue is the flex in the fence system of the festool sliding table. I magine the Kreg system mounted in t-track has zero flex.?
At the moment its not my money im spending?its the clients. He is assuming the cost of all tooling required for the project. Well kinda im spendimg a few bucks of my own. You cant charge everything to the client. Well i guess i could but i might not have work for very long.
I would have a hard time sneaking the contruction of a?router table, another router and the Kreg jig into the bill. Doing things as i do i would build?the unit in the side table of my SawStop. I would probably use a Jessem Router Lift and T-track $300.?Then add the 3.5 horse Festool router for a about?$1000 out the door. The??and the?Kreg jig $397 i think and suddenly the few shaper cutters?i purchased seem like deal to the customer.
It is crazy how many work station one could use when doing a project of this scope. Easily i could use two shapers. Two router tables and two hamd held routers setup to a CT. I feel like i have a serious tool collection "and i do" but man it never ends! On Monday, January 23, 2017, John jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
Not trying to spend your money too quick but if you're going to be doing more face frame work that Kreg bit and fence system is the way to go according to some friends that do that face frame stuff. I do the very occasional face frame and that manual cutter is a pain in the ass in comparison.?
-------- Original message -------- From: "patrick walsh pwalsh651@... [felder-woodworking]" < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> Date: 2017-01-23 9:54 AM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250
?
At the momen i only want the router spindle for one reason. I am building a very large kitchen along with?a number of bathroom vanities. They all have?beaded?face frames,?the inside edge of the doorstyle and rails are also beaded.
At The moment my workflow for face frame door style and rail constructin?goes as such.?
Mill my face frame stock on the AD941 to 7/8". Rip to 2" on the table saw. Move to festool router table with POS?sliding table with custom made fence/scale/stop to cut the haunch. Go to?the shaper to run the bead then back to the router table tear?it down and put in a slot cutter to run the slot to accept the pannel. Then it is off to the FD250 to bore the mortise. To date i have made one vanity and i just used a floating tennon for the joinery. I plan to cut a proper tennon into the rail portion for door construction from here on out on the shaper.
The reason for the high speed router spindle is the ability to use the Kreg nothing bit that creates the hounch on a sliding table that has zero flex or give. To date to cut the haunch i use the sliding table on my festoom CMS table with the workpiece handing over the end of the fence running past the cutter. The other end is?backed up aginst a stop block that i indexed to a rule. I made a new 48" long fenc for my CMS out of hard maple and Incra T-track so i could get repeatable cuts. The CMs Sliding table and fence have a amount of flex to them. This creates problems with the haunch being dead nuts perfect. For the most part its fine but im not much into fine. I like perfect and reliable perfection.
The whole process is rather a pita and i am sure this is not how a true cab?shop would do it. I have seen those Hoffman notching machines and man what i would give for one of those. On the other hand i love to build stuff and so long?as the customer understands what they are asking of me i am happy to take on a pita project. The customer is a fellow builder and carpenter, just not a?finish carpemter?so he gets it and is just happy to have someone willing to do the project for a reasonible rate that takes pride is their work that will procide a quality end product.
So thats why the high speed router spindle..
On Monday, January 23, 2017, 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
?
Glen, I¡¯m not a fan of the router spindle either. ? Why don¡¯t you just build (or buy) yourself one of these - probably half the cost of a router spindle:
David Best On Jan 22, 2017, at 10:46 PM, GLEN chris3645@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
?
Well I dont have my shaper yet but I bit the bullet and just got all three, not because iI need them but because of frustration when I cant buy a cutter head because I don't have the right spindle
This is how I understand it..... but I don't know anything yet
30 mill is a standard EURO cutter
1.25 mil is a standard US cutter
Spindle shaper I can use simple 1/2 inch router cutters for small tasks as a round over
Again I dont know what I m talking about but we will find out when my machine arrives
-----Original Message-----
From: patrick walsh pwalsh651@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroup s.com>
To: felder-woodworking <felder-woodworking@yahoogroup s.com>
Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2017 7:30 am
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250
?
I had thought about end mill bits.
I also noticed the rangate cutters.
Also Mac i looked into the cutter you suggested. It looks to me to be a quality?square chisel mortising bit. I am?pretty sure i need a specific chuck to use such a cutter on my FD250.
I originaly started purchasing most of my machines for hobby use with the hopes that beung a finish carpenter " i would use them if i had them" to make a living. This has increasingly become?my experience. Kinda a "if you build it they will come" mentality.
Point is as the work requires i keep crossing bridges and or running into impasses and or finding new useses and applications for my equiptment. Point in mentioning is as im sure we all know it can at times be very costly. As of late i have been using my shaper a ton. As Mac suggested in my dust collector thread sometimes its one step forward three steps back.At The ?moment it sure feels that way.
With this current project i can get the client to assume at least half the cost of tooling if not the full cost. I do need to resonible though hence a end mill bit maybe being a better solution for me than a a square mortise bit as then i also need a pricey chuck. I can charge the bit to the customer but the chuck would be difficult.
Im having the same problme with shaper tooling. I only have a 30mm spindle. I keep running into instances where i need a specific cutter like tomorrow. Everything ends up being 1.25 that can be had in days as apposed to weeks. The end result is shims. Inthe short long term i just need to piny up the $500 for a 1.25 spindle.?
The only problem is it is really never ending. After the 1.25 spindle i could use high speed router spindle. After that another shaper as having only one is a pita!
As much as i love tools "and i do" it can become quite stressful how much all?this stuff cost.
Sorry for the rant just offering some perspective on the situatuion. Really for the moment i just need the least expensive solution to getting?my machine to cut a straight clean mortise so i can get this dam?kitchen built.?
Long term my shop can use many many additional tools assesories and upgrades.
??
On Sunday, January 22, 2017, andy.giddings@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:
?
Think Mac is spot on based on my experience with the Mortise Attachment. I assumed that the Westccot chuck would be concentric to the spindle, but its very sensitive to the 3 grub screws that lock it onto the spindle (don't know if the FD250 has the same locking method). If the fixture is the same, its very important to adjust the screws evenly while using an accurate bar or dowel in the chuck with a height/dial gauge.
Once I had that sorted out, the birdsmouth cutters performed better. I also found that the Felder cutters were not that sharp - the Rangate cutters are far better out of the box. You might also want to try end mills or two fluted router bits - cut a lot quicker and just as smoothly even with the lower speed compared to a router
|
Manaul cutter?
I have the Kreg bit just chucked up i a OF1400 on my Festool CMS router table?with the?sliding table. It is a near replica of the Kreg jig intended for a traditional router table setup with t-track.
The issue is the flex in the fence system of the festool sliding table. I magine the Kreg system mounted in t-track has zero flex.?
At the moment its not my money im spending?its the clients. He is assuming the cost of all tooling required for the project. Well kinda im spendimg a few bucks of my own. You cant charge everything to the client. Well i guess i could but i might not have work for very long.
I would have a hard time sneaking the contruction of a?router table, another router and the Kreg jig into the bill. Doing things as i do i would build?the unit in the side table of my SawStop. I would probably use a Jessem Router Lift and T-track $300.?Then add the 3.5 horse Festool router for a about?$1000 out the door. The??and the?Kreg jig $397 i think and suddenly the few shaper cutters?i purchased seem like deal to the customer.
It is crazy how many work station one could use when doing a project of this scope. Easily i could use two shapers. Two router tables and two hamd held routers setup to a CT. I feel like i have a serious tool collection "and i do" but man it never ends!
On Monday, January 23, 2017, John jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
Not trying to spend your money too quick but if you're going to be doing more face frame work that Kreg bit and fence system is the way to go according to some friends that do that face frame stuff. I do the very occasional face frame and that manual cutter is a pain in the ass in comparison.?
-------- Original message -------- From: "patrick walsh pwalsh651@... [felder-woodworking]" < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> Date: 2017-01-23 9:54 AM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250
?
At the momen i only want the router spindle for one reason. I am building a very large kitchen along with?a number of bathroom vanities. They all have?beaded?face frames,?the inside edge of the doorstyle and rails are also beaded.
At The moment my workflow for face frame door style and rail constructin?goes as such.?
Mill my face frame stock on the AD941 to 7/8". Rip to 2" on the table saw. Move to festool router table with POS?sliding table with custom made fence/scale/stop to cut the haunch. Go to?the shaper to run the bead then back to the router table tear?it down and put in a slot cutter to run the slot to accept the pannel. Then it is off to the FD250 to bore the mortise. To date i have made one vanity and i just used a floating tennon for the joinery. I plan to cut a proper tennon into the rail portion for door construction from here on out on the shaper.
The reason for the high speed router spindle is the ability to use the Kreg nothing bit that creates the hounch on a sliding table that has zero flex or give. To date to cut the haunch i use the sliding table on my festoom CMS table with the workpiece handing over the end of the fence running past the cutter. The other end is?backed up aginst a stop block that i indexed to a rule. I made a new 48" long fenc for my CMS out of hard maple and Incra T-track so i could get repeatable cuts. The CMs Sliding table and fence have a amount of flex to them. This creates problems with the haunch being dead nuts perfect. For the most part its fine but im not much into fine. I like perfect and reliable perfection.
The whole process is rather a pita and i am sure this is not how a true cab?shop would do it. I have seen those Hoffman notching machines and man what i would give for one of those. On the other hand i love to build stuff and so long?as the customer understands what they are asking of me i am happy to take on a pita project. The customer is a fellow builder and carpenter, just not a?finish carpemter?so he gets it and is just happy to have someone willing to do the project for a reasonible rate that takes pride is their work that will procide a quality end product.
So thats why the high speed router spindle..
On Monday, January 23, 2017, 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
?
Glen, I¡¯m not a fan of the router spindle either. ? Why don¡¯t you just build (or buy) yourself one of these - probably half the cost of a router spindle:
David Best On Jan 22, 2017, at 10:46 PM, GLEN chris3645@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
?
Well I dont have my shaper yet but I bit the bullet and just got all three, not because iI need them but because of frustration when I cant buy a cutter head because I don't have the right spindle
This is how I understand it..... but I don't know anything yet
30 mill is a standard EURO cutter
1.25 mil is a standard US cutter
Spindle shaper I can use simple 1/2 inch router cutters for small tasks as a round over
Again I dont know what I m talking about but we will find out when my machine arrives
-----Original Message-----
From: patrick walsh pwalsh651@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroup s.com>
To: felder-woodworking <felder-woodworking@yahoogroup s.com>
Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2017 7:30 am
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250
?
I had thought about end mill bits.
I also noticed the rangate cutters.
Also Mac i looked into the cutter you suggested. It looks to me to be a quality?square chisel mortising bit. I am?pretty sure i need a specific chuck to use such a cutter on my FD250.
I originaly started purchasing most of my machines for hobby use with the hopes that beung a finish carpenter " i would use them if i had them" to make a living. This has increasingly become?my experience. Kinda a "if you build it they will come" mentality.
Point is as the work requires i keep crossing bridges and or running into impasses and or finding new useses and applications for my equiptment. Point in mentioning is as im sure we all know it can at times be very costly. As of late i have been using my shaper a ton. As Mac suggested in my dust collector thread sometimes its one step forward three steps back.At The ?moment it sure feels that way.
With this current project i can get the client to assume at least half the cost of tooling if not the full cost. I do need to resonible though hence a end mill bit maybe being a better solution for me than a a square mortise bit as then i also need a pricey chuck. I can charge the bit to the customer but the chuck would be difficult.
Im having the same problme with shaper tooling. I only have a 30mm spindle. I keep running into instances where i need a specific cutter like tomorrow. Everything ends up being 1.25 that can be had in days as apposed to weeks. The end result is shims. Inthe short long term i just need to piny up the $500 for a 1.25 spindle.?
The only problem is it is really never ending. After the 1.25 spindle i could use high speed router spindle. After that another shaper as having only one is a pita!
As much as i love tools "and i do" it can become quite stressful how much all?this stuff cost.
Sorry for the rant just offering some perspective on the situatuion. Really for the moment i just need the least expensive solution to getting?my machine to cut a straight clean mortise so i can get this dam?kitchen built.?
Long term my shop can use many many additional tools assesories and upgrades.
??
On Sunday, January 22, 2017, andy.giddings@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:
?
Think Mac is spot on based on my experience with the Mortise Attachment. I assumed that the Westccot chuck would be concentric to the spindle, but its very sensitive to the 3 grub screws that lock it onto the spindle (don't know if the FD250 has the same locking method). If the fixture is the same, its very important to adjust the screws evenly while using an accurate bar or dowel in the chuck with a height/dial gauge.
Once I had that sorted out, the birdsmouth cutters performed better. I also found that the Felder cutters were not that sharp - the Rangate cutters are far better out of the box. You might also want to try end mills or two fluted router bits - cut a lot quicker and just as smoothly even with the lower speed compared to a router
|
Glen,
Im no expert on lighting so you should listen to Brian.
For the most part as i understand it insulation?contact with led cans is fine when using fiberglass insulation. The reason insulation contact is not ok with with spray foam and or?any recessed can?for the matter is a two to three?part issue.?
The first issue is serviceability. To keep it?simple spray foam locks the unit into?place making servicing the unit in the future?a problem.
The second isssue with regard to spray foam is that it?goes?on wet and the potential for it to?seep?into the parts?and components of a electrical fixture that should not or can not be exposed to moisture. Also of concern is the incredible amount of heat generated with especially closed cell spray foam and its potential to melt wire housings during application.
In the feild cans are sprayed around all day by boxing or bagging them. In the case of recessed lights in a vaulted ceiling where they end up very close to roof sheathing the problem becomes getting enough insulation behind the units to get proper R value. Most cans are 6-9" tall leaving little room for proper insulation and the required 3" IC rated spray foam set back when using most Ic rated units.
The third issue has to due with a topic touched on in the Link Brian provided. Heat build up can be a issue for some light fixtures when not?given room to breath or vent. If a unit or can is burried in spray foam it cant really do either. For issues such as are leakage this is a good. Thing. As i understand it certain units and im not sure if they are LED just shut off when they reach a ceratin tmeperature. This is another reason to be careful about throwing caution to the wind and submerging your??recessed cans in spray foam.
Again i am not expert just a carpenter that deals with electricians fairly regularly and recently put a addition on his own home and crossed this bridge. As said i opted out of recessed led cans. My reason was more about being in the?north east. Dealing with existing 2x6 construction and the importance of??R value to me for rasons such as ice damming so forth and so on.
Another thing to watch out for when submerging a unit in spray foam is the possibility evaporative condensation. Moistuer becomes a major concern when working with spray foam and a fully sealed building envalope. You have to be very carful any interior moister has a proper way to vent and any exterior moister has no way of penetrating the envalope. If you do not you face all kimds of issues with mold, mildew and rot!?
On Monday, January 23, 2017, brian@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
Glen, the issue isn't clearance but the spray foam itself. Things like the foam trapping J-box covers closed, expanding into the fixture or J-box, etc. More and more LED fixtures are getting approved for direct contact with foam, probably the testing is the hardest part. There is some opinion that just wrapping plastic over the fixture is enough, because most manufacturers just say 'No direct contact' and don't specify a 3" gap, which is a leftover cleance from another application.?
In reply to: I thought you did not need the clearance on led fixtures. I know they make cans that are zero clearance because thats what I put in my house when I built it .
|
Not trying to spend your money too quick but if you're going to be doing more face frame work that Kreg bit and fence system is the way to go according to some friends that do that face frame stuff. I do the very occasional face frame and that manual cutter is a pain in the ass in comparison.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: "patrick walsh pwalsh651@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@...> Date: 2017-01-23 9:54 AM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@... Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250
?
At the momen i only want the router spindle for one reason. I am building a very large kitchen along with?a number of bathroom vanities. They all have?beaded?face frames,?the inside edge of the doorstyle and rails are also beaded.
At The moment my workflow for face frame door style and rail constructin?goes as such.?
Mill my face frame stock on the AD941 to 7/8". Rip to 2" on the table saw. Move to festool router table with POS?sliding table with custom made fence/scale/stop to cut the haunch. Go to?the shaper to run the bead then back to the router table tear?it down and put in a slot cutter to run the slot to accept the pannel. Then it is off to the FD250 to bore the mortise. To date i have made one vanity and i just used a floating tennon for the joinery. I plan to cut a proper tennon into the rail portion for door construction from here on out on the shaper.
The reason for the high speed router spindle is the ability to use the Kreg nothing bit that creates the hounch on a sliding table that has zero flex or give. To date to cut the haunch i use the sliding table on my festoom CMS table with the workpiece handing over the end of the fence running past the cutter. The other end is?backed up aginst a stop block that i indexed to a rule. I made a new 48" long fenc for my CMS out of hard maple and Incra T-track so i could get repeatable cuts. The CMs Sliding table and fence have a amount of flex to them. This creates problems with the haunch being dead nuts perfect. For the most part its fine but im not much into fine. I like perfect and reliable perfection.
The whole process is rather a pita and i am sure this is not how a true cab?shop would do it. I have seen those Hoffman notching machines and man what i would give for one of those. On the other hand i love to build stuff and so long?as the customer understands what they are asking of me i am happy to take on a pita project. The customer is a fellow builder and carpenter, just not a?finish carpemter?so he gets it and is just happy to have someone willing to do the project for a reasonible rate that takes pride is their work that will procide a quality end product.
So thats why the high speed router spindle..
On Monday, January 23, 2017, 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
Glen, I¡¯m not a fan of the router spindle either. ? Why don¡¯t you just build (or buy) yourself one of these - probably half the cost of a router spindle:
David Best
?
Well I dont have my shaper yet but I bit the bullet and just got all three, not because iI need them but because of frustration when I cant buy a cutter head because I don't have the right spindle
This is how I understand it..... but I don't know anything yet
30 mill is a standard EURO cutter
1.25 mil is a standard US cutter
Spindle shaper I can use simple 1/2 inch router cutters for small tasks as a round over
Again I dont know what I m talking about but we will find out when my machine arrives
-----Original Message-----
From: patrick walsh pwalsh651@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com>
To: felder-woodworking < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2017 7:30 am
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250
?
I had thought about end mill bits.
I also noticed the rangate cutters.
Also Mac i looked into the cutter you suggested. It looks to me to be a quality?square chisel mortising bit. I am?pretty sure i need a specific chuck to use such a cutter on my FD250.
I originaly started purchasing most of my machines for hobby use with the hopes that beung a finish carpenter " i would use them if i had them" to make a living. This has increasingly become?my experience. Kinda a "if you build it they will come" mentality.
Point is as the work requires i keep crossing bridges and or running into impasses and or finding new useses and applications for my equiptment. Point in mentioning is as im sure we all know it can at times be very costly. As of late i have been using my shaper a ton. As Mac suggested in my dust collector thread sometimes its one step forward three steps back.At The ?moment it sure feels that way.
With this current project i can get the client to assume at least half the cost of tooling if not the full cost. I do need to resonible though hence a end mill bit maybe being a better solution for me than a a square mortise bit as then i also need a pricey chuck. I can charge the bit to the customer but the chuck would be difficult.
Im having the same problme with shaper tooling. I only have a 30mm spindle. I keep running into instances where i need a specific cutter like tomorrow. Everything ends up being 1.25 that can be had in days as apposed to weeks. The end result is shims. Inthe short long term i just need to piny up the $500 for a 1.25 spindle.?
The only problem is it is really never ending. After the 1.25 spindle i could use high speed router spindle. After that another shaper as having only one is a pita!
As much as i love tools "and i do" it can become quite stressful how much all?this stuff cost.
Sorry for the rant just offering some perspective on the situatuion. Really for the moment i just need the least expensive solution to getting?my machine to cut a straight clean mortise so i can get this dam?kitchen built.?
Long term my shop can use many many additional tools assesories and upgrades.
??
On Sunday, January 22, 2017, andy.giddings@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
?
Think Mac is spot on based on my experience with the Mortise Attachment. I assumed that the Westccot chuck would be concentric to the spindle, but its very sensitive to the 3 grub screws that lock it onto the spindle (don't know if the FD250 has the same locking method). If the fixture is the same, its very important to adjust the screws evenly while using an accurate bar or dowel in the chuck with a height/dial gauge.
Once I had that sorted out, the birdsmouth cutters performed better. I also found that the Felder cutters were not that sharp - the Rangate cutters are far better out of the box. You might also want to try end mills or two fluted router bits - cut a lot quicker and just as smoothly even with the lower speed compared to a router
|
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
My suggestion was intended for Glen.
David Best
At the momen i only want the router spindle for one reason. I am building a very large kitchen along with?a number of bathroom vanities. They all have?beaded?face frames,?the inside edge of the doorstyle and rails are also beaded.
At The moment my workflow for face frame door style and rail constructin?goes as such.?
Mill my face frame stock on the AD941 to 7/8". Rip to 2" on the table saw. Move to festool router table with POS?sliding table with custom made fence/scale/stop to cut the haunch. Go to?the shaper to run the bead then back to the router table tear?it down and put in a slot cutter to run the slot to accept the pannel. Then it is off to the FD250 to bore the mortise. To date i have made one vanity and i just used a floating tennon for the joinery. I plan to cut a proper tennon into the rail portion for door construction from here on out on the shaper.
The reason for the high speed router spindle is the ability to use the Kreg nothing bit that creates the hounch on a sliding table that has zero flex or give. To date to cut the haunch i use the sliding table on my festoom CMS table with the workpiece handing over the end of the fence running past the cutter. The other end is?backed up aginst a stop block that i indexed to a rule. I made a new 48" long fenc for my CMS out of hard maple and Incra T-track so i could get repeatable cuts. The CMs Sliding table and fence have a amount of flex to them. This creates problems with the haunch being dead nuts perfect. For the most part its fine but im not much into fine. I like perfect and reliable perfection.
The whole process is rather a pita and i am sure this is not how a true cab?shop would do it. I have seen those Hoffman notching machines and man what i would give for one of those. On the other hand i love to build stuff and so long?as the customer understands what they are asking of me i am happy to take on a pita project. The customer is a fellow builder and carpenter, just not a?finish carpemter?so he gets it and is just happy to have someone willing to do the project for a reasonible rate that takes pride is their work that will procide a quality end product.
So thats why the high speed router spindle..
On Monday, January 23, 2017, 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' ?david@...?[ felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote: ?Glen, I¡¯m not a fan of the router spindle either. ? Why don¡¯t you just build (or buy) yourself one of these - probably half the cost of a router spindle:
David Best
?Well I dont have my shaper yet but I bit the bullet and just got all three, not because iI need them but because of frustration when I cant buy a cutter head because I don't have the right spindle?
This is how I understand it..... but I don't know anything yet?
30 mill is a standard EURO cutter
1.25 mil is a standard US cutter?
Spindle shaper I can use simple 1/2 inch router cutters for small tasks as a round over?
Again I dont know what I m talking about but we will find out when my machine arrives?
-----Original Message----- From: patrick walsh ?pwalsh651@...?[ felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> To: felder-woodworking < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2017 7:30 am Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] FD250 ?I had thought about end mill bits.
I also noticed the rangate cutters.
Also Mac i looked into the cutter you suggested. It looks to me to be a quality?square chisel mortising bit. I am?pretty sure i need a specific chuck to use such a cutter on my FD250.
I originaly started purchasing most of my machines for hobby use with the hopes that beung a finish carpenter " i would use them if i had them" to make a living. This has increasingly become?my experience. Kinda a "if you build it they will come" mentality.
Point is as the work requires i keep crossing bridges and or running into impasses and or finding new useses and applications for my equiptment. Point in mentioning is as im sure we all know it can at times be very costly. As of late i have been using my shaper a ton. As Mac suggested in my dust collector thread sometimes its one step forward three steps back.At The ?moment it sure feels that way.
With this current project i can get the client to assume at least half the cost of tooling if not the full cost. I do need to resonible though hence a end mill bit maybe being a better solution for me than a a square mortise bit as then i also need a pricey chuck. I can charge the bit to the customer but the chuck would be difficult.
Im having the same problme with shaper tooling. I only have a 30mm spindle. I keep running into instances where i need a specific cutter like tomorrow. Everything ends up being 1.25 that can be had in days as apposed to weeks. The end result is shims. Inthe short long term i just need to piny up the $500 for a 1.25 spindle.?
The only problem is it is really never ending. After the 1.25 spindle i could use high speed router spindle. After that another shaper as having only one is a pita!
As much as i love tools "and i do" it can become quite stressful how much all?this stuff cost.
Sorry for the rant just offering some perspective on the situatuion. Really for the moment i just need the least expensive solution to getting?my machine to cut a straight clean mortise so i can get this dam?kitchen built.?
Long term my shop can use many many additional tools assesories and upgrades. ?? On Sunday, January 22, 2017, ?andy.giddings@verizon.net?[felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote: ?Think Mac is spot on based on my experience with the Mortise Attachment. I assumed that the Westccot chuck would be concentric to the spindle, but its very sensitive to the 3 grub screws that lock it onto the spindle (don't know if the FD250 has the same locking method). If the fixture is the same, its very important to adjust the screws evenly while using an accurate bar or dowel in the chuck with a height/dial gauge.
Once I had that sorted out, the birdsmouth cutters performed better. I also found that the Felder cutters were not that sharp - the Rangate cutters are far better out of the box. You might also want to try end mills or two fluted router bits - cut a lot quicker and just as smoothly even with the lower speed compared to a router
|
Glen, the issue isn't clearance but the spray foam itself. Things like the foam trapping J-box covers closed, expanding into the fixture or J-box, etc. More and more LED fixtures are getting approved for direct contact with foam, probably the testing is the hardest part. There is some opinion that just wrapping plastic over the fixture is enough, because most manufacturers just say 'No direct contact' and don't specify a 3" gap, which is a leftover cleance from another application.?
In reply to: I thought you did not need the clearance on led fixtures. I know they make cans that are zero clearance because thats what I put in my house when I built it .
|
David P. Best
Jason Holtz