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Anyone know if I can put shoulder harness seatbelts on the rear facing
seats in the 2003 EVMV or somehow convert it to having forward facing
seats with shoulder harness seat belt? My rear bench has 2 shoulder and
one lap and the middle seats face rearward and have lap belts. I have 3
young kids and am slightly nuerotic about seatbelts. Any thoughts out
there besides get over the seatbely nuerosis? I love my van and this
would make it perfect. The only problem I have with it.

We had the neurosis too....
There are a few options you can work with and some that don't work:
I don't think there is a feasible way to get a different seat setup
(forward facing). That would be the regular GLS.
Other than that...
there is a Harness that goes up to 160 pounds that changes a lap belt
into a 4 point belt.


Florian
03 MVWK

I have looked at the harness and a safety expert said that since the rear facing seats do not have headrests that they still with the harness would not be safe and the manuel states over and over NOT to put any children at all in the rear facing seats and not to use the tether anchors for harnesses! Ahhhhh wish I would have known befoere I bought it! The harness will work for my middle rear bench seat. I guess the rear facing would be at my discretion or with a high back booster...It would be nice convert them to swivel or forward facing uinfortunately VW will have no part in any info reguarding this so it would be an after market place and I am reluctant ot have someone drilling holes in the frame of my van. I guess I will have to bite my lip and hope for the best with the harness. Do you have these harnesses? Do you use them in the rear facing seats? Did you have anchors installes? I have the seats that clip into the front seat and floor. Tyhank you
for the harness info.

Strap your kid into a rear-facing seat (use a booster seat to get the
belt in the right place across the hips). It's the safest seat in the
house. You don't need a shoulder harness. It's simple physics.

Is your kid so tall that their head is ABOVE the seat back? If not,
what possible difference could a head rest make?




--- In ev_update@..., Danielle Cummings <ddc_jtc@...> wrote:

I have looked at the harness and a safety expert said that since the

rear facing seats do not have headrests that they still with the
harness would not be safe and the manuel states over and over NOT to
put any children at all in the rear facing seats and not to use the
tether anchors for harnesses! Ahhhhh wish I would have known befoere I
bought it! The harness will work for my middle rear bench seat. I
guess the rear facing would be at my discretion or with a high back
booster...It would be nice convert them to swivel or forward facing
uinfortunately VW will have no part in any info reguarding this so it
would be an after market place and I am reluctant ot have someone
drilling holes in the frame of my van. I guess I will have to bite my
lip and hope for the best with the harness. Do you have these
harnesses? Do you use them in the rear facing seats? Did you have
anchors installes? I have the seats that clip into the front seat and
floor. Tyhank you

for the harness info.


----- Original Message ----
From: Florian <fkahlert@...>
To: ev_update@...
Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2008 11:12:48 PM
Subject: [ev_update] Re: shoulder harness seatbelts or forward

facing seats

We had the neurosis too....
There are a few options you can work with and some that don't work:
I don't think there is a feasible way to get a different seat setup
(forward facing). That would be the regular GLS.
Other than that...
there is a Harness that goes up to 160 pounds that changes a lap belt
into a 4 point belt.
afetyservices. com/gpage13. html

Florian
03 MVWK

--- In ev_update@yahoogrou ps.com, "Todd and Dana" <ddc_jtc@ > wrote:

Anyone know if I can put shoulder harness seatbelts on the rear

facing

seats in the 2003 EVMV or somehow convert it to having forward facing
seats with shoulder harness seat belt? My rear bench has 2

shoulder and

one lap and the middle seats face rearward and have lap belts. I

have 3

young kids and am slightly nuerotic about seatbelts. Any thoughts out
there besides get over the seatbely nuerosis? I love my van and this
would make it perfect. The only problem I have with it.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- dave_king_ev <dave_king_ev@...> wrote:

Strap your kid into a rear-facing seat (use a booster seat to get the belt in the right place

across the hips). It's the safest seat in the house. You don't need a shoulder harness. It's
simple physics.

Agreed. Apart from not putting a child seat in the rear-facing seats (the lap belts on those
don't have the proper lockign retractors for a child seat install), if your kid is old enough to
not need a child seat, the rear-facing seat is probably the best seat for a child for these
reasons.

While no seat is totally safe from impacts of all directions (you have a seatback facing one way
and nothing facing the other way), you are probably less likely to have a high-speed rear-ender
(unless you reverse into something at 60mph...ha...or someone nails you at highway speeds without
braking *at all*) than a high-speed front-ender. Therefore it makes sense to have the seatback to
protect you in a frontal collision.

If you do get hit from behind, the occupant of the rear-facing seat will bend forward (well,
forward to them is towards the rear of the van). The human body is designed to bend forward (not
backwards) so your kid should be fine there as well.

I would however make sure you never travel with the table deployed. Anyone sitting on the
driver's side in the rear cabin could be jabbed by it or whack their head on it real good. As
tempting and nice as it would be to cruise down the highway playing a board game to keep the kids
occupied, I wouldn't risk the injury potential. (I'm even a little cynically surprised that there
wasn't a "save the idiot consumer from themselves" label affixed to the sidewall on/near the table
to warn against use while in motion...how'd NHTSA overlook that?)

Is your kid so tall that their head is ABOVE the seat back? If not, what possible difference

could a head rest make?

Agreed.

Actually, as safe as cars are today, probably every safety feature isn't as safe as it physically
could be but if it were, cars would cost $200K. If the seats were UNsafe, the Eurovan MV either
couldn't be sold at all or there'd be a recall by now. Just because the design is a reasonable
compromise between safe and cost doesn't mean it's UNsafe.

GoWesty carries retrofit kits to add three-point belts for the
rear-facing Eurovan seats.

Do a product search at www.gowesty.com for "ktemv" and they'll come up.

Carl

--- In ev_update@..., "Todd and Dana" <ddc_jtc@> wrote:

Anyone know if I can put shoulder harness seatbelts on the rear

facing

seats in the 2003 EVMV or somehow convert it to having forward facing
seats with shoulder harness seat belt? My rear bench has 2

shoulder and

one lap and the middle seats face rearward and have lap belts. I

have 3

young kids and am slightly nuerotic about seatbelts. Any thoughts out
there besides get over the seatbely nuerosis? I love my van and this
would make it perfect. The only problem I have with it.

Agree with all said. We have no addl. harnesses on the rear facing
seats and have the depicted harness on the middle seat.
F.

--- In ev_update@..., gti_matt <gti_matt@...> wrote:

--- dave_king_ev <dave_king_ev@...> wrote:

Strap your kid into a rear-facing seat (use a booster seat to get

the belt in the right place

across the hips). It's the safest seat in the house. You don't

need a shoulder harness. It's

simple physics.

Agreed. Apart from not putting a child seat in the rear-facing

seats (the lap belts on those

don't have the proper lockign retractors for a child seat install),

if your kid is old enough to

not need a child seat, the rear-facing seat is probably the best

seat for a child for these

reasons.

While no seat is totally safe from impacts of all directions (you

have a seatback facing one way

and nothing facing the other way), you are probably less likely to

have a high-speed rear-ender

(unless you reverse into something at 60mph...ha...or someone nails

you at highway speeds without

braking *at all*) than a high-speed front-ender. Therefore it makes

sense to have the seatback to

protect you in a frontal collision.

If you do get hit from behind, the occupant of the rear-facing seat

will bend forward (well,

forward to them is towards the rear of the van). The human body is

designed to bend forward (not

backwards) so your kid should be fine there as well.

I would however make sure you never travel with the table deployed.

Anyone sitting on the

driver's side in the rear cabin could be jabbed by it or whack their

head on it real good. As

tempting and nice as it would be to cruise down the highway playing

a board game to keep the kids

occupied, I wouldn't risk the injury potential. (I'm even a little

cynically surprised that there

wasn't a "save the idiot consumer from themselves" label affixed to

the sidewall on/near the table

to warn against use while in motion...how'd NHTSA overlook that?)

Is your kid so tall that their head is ABOVE the seat back? If

not, what possible difference

could a head rest make?

Agreed.

Actually, as safe as cars are today, probably every safety feature

isn't as safe as it physically

could be but if it were, cars would cost $200K. If the seats were

UNsafe, the Eurovan MV either

couldn't be sold at all or there'd be a recall by now. Just because

the design is a reasonable

compromise between safe and cost doesn't mean it's UNsafe.

You are so incredibly awesome! You just solved my problem! Thank you
sooooooooo much! I love my van again! I googled and searched and
couldnt find anything VW was no help at all! Great site didn't even
know it was out there! I can not thank you enough!






--- In ev_update@..., "Carl Henderson" <chendermi@...>
wrote:

GoWesty carries retrofit kits to add three-point belts for the
rear-facing Eurovan seats.

Do a product search at www.gowesty.com for "ktemv" and they'll come

up.

Carl

--- In ev_update@..., "Todd and Dana" <ddc_jtc@>

wrote:

Anyone know if I can put shoulder harness seatbelts on the rear

facing

seats in the 2003 EVMV or somehow convert it to having forward

facing

seats with shoulder harness seat belt? My rear bench has 2

shoulder and

one lap and the middle seats face rearward and have lap belts. I

have 3

young kids and am slightly nuerotic about seatbelts. Any

thoughts out

there besides get over the seatbely nuerosis? I love my van and

this

would make it perfect. The only problem I have with it.

Danielle Cummings wrote:

I have looked at the harness and a safety expert said that since the
rear facing seats do not have headrests that they still with the
harness would not be safe and the manuel states over and over NOT to
put any children at all in the rear facing seats and not to use the
tether anchors for harnesses!

The same headrest works for both front seats and the center rear-facing seats. It seems to me that you would be safer in the rear-facing seat than in the rear forward-facing seat. But I am not a lawyer, nor am I a safety expert.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

I just did a quick review of the California DMV site and some other safety links. I <think> that the biggest safety issue they all bring up is the problem of using Rear Facing infant seats on Rear Facing Vehicle seats, probably because of the way the infant seats are designed to work with the seat belt harness to direct the impact forces. If a rear facing infant seat is used "backwards" it could cause it to flip "heel over head" in a frontal impact.

This from the CA DMV site:

Any child under the age of six weighing less than 60 pounds must be secured in a federally approved child passenger restraint system and ride in the back seat of a vehicle.

A child under the age of six weighing less than 60 pounds may ride in the front seat of a vehicle when:

There is no rear seat or the rear seats are either side-facing jump seats or rear-facing seats.
The child passenger restraint system cannot be installed properly in the rear seat.
All rear seats are already occupied by children under the age of 12 years.
A medical reason requires the child to ride in the front seat.

there is a bit more here:

< article.html>

< article.html>

Pretty confusing!



Dave Richoux 2000 EVC

On Jun 6, 2008, at 1:38 PM, Lee Hart wrote:

Danielle Cummings wrote:

I have looked at the harness and a safety expert said that since the
rear facing seats do not have headrests that they still with the
harness would not be safe and the manuel states over and over NOT to
put any children at all in the rear facing seats and not to use the
tether anchors for harnesses!

The same headrest works for both front seats and the center rear- facing
seats. It seems to me that you would be safer in the rear-facing seat
than in the rear forward-facing seat. But I am not a lawyer, nor am I a
safety expert.
--

Hey, that's what this group is all about. Hopefully the karma comes back!

Good luck,
Carl

Check this out - looks like a good option for the rear facing seats.

www.gowesty.com

Use their product search and search on "ktemv"



--- In ev_update@..., "Florian" <fkahlert@...> wrote:

Agree with all said. We have no addl. harnesses on the rear facing
seats and have the depicted harness on the middle seat.
F.

--- In ev_update@..., gti_matt <gti_matt@> wrote:

--- dave_king_ev <dave_king_ev@> wrote:

Strap your kid into a rear-facing seat (use a booster seat to get

the belt in the right place

across the hips). It's the safest seat in the house. You don't

need a shoulder harness. It's

simple physics.

Agreed. Apart from not putting a child seat in the rear-facing

seats (the lap belts on those

don't have the proper lockign retractors for a child seat

install),

if your kid is old enough to

not need a child seat, the rear-facing seat is probably the best

seat for a child for these

reasons.

While no seat is totally safe from impacts of all directions (you

have a seatback facing one way

and nothing facing the other way), you are probably less likely to

have a high-speed rear-ender

(unless you reverse into something at 60mph...ha...or someone

nails

you at highway speeds without

braking *at all*) than a high-speed front-ender. Therefore it

makes

sense to have the seatback to

protect you in a frontal collision.

If you do get hit from behind, the occupant of the rear-facing

seat

will bend forward (well,

forward to them is towards the rear of the van). The human body

is

designed to bend forward (not

backwards) so your kid should be fine there as well.

I would however make sure you never travel with the table

deployed.

Anyone sitting on the

driver's side in the rear cabin could be jabbed by it or whack

their

head on it real good. As

tempting and nice as it would be to cruise down the highway

playing

a board game to keep the kids

occupied, I wouldn't risk the injury potential. (I'm even a

little

cynically surprised that there

wasn't a "save the idiot consumer from themselves" label affixed

to

the sidewall on/near the table

to warn against use while in motion...how'd NHTSA overlook that?)

Is your kid so tall that their head is ABOVE the seat back? If

not, what possible difference

could a head rest make?

Agreed.

Actually, as safe as cars are today, probably every safety feature

isn't as safe as it physically

could be but if it were, cars would cost $200K. If the seats were

UNsafe, the Eurovan MV either

couldn't be sold at all or there'd be a recall by now. Just

because

the design is a reasonable

compromise between safe and cost doesn't mean it's UNsafe.

I installed them myself:) The hardest part was cutting the openings
in the interior panels for the seatbelt to guide through. My dremmel
didnt like it! Thank you again this was a great and cost affective
solution to my problem! They look and worl great and my neurosis is
at ease!







--- In ev_update@..., "Carl Henderson" <chendermi@...>
wrote:

GoWesty carries retrofit kits to add three-point belts for the
rear-facing Eurovan seats.

Do a product search at www.gowesty.com for "ktemv" and they'll come

up.

Carl

--- In ev_update@..., "Todd and Dana" <ddc_jtc@>

wrote:

Anyone know if I can put shoulder harness seatbelts on the rear

facing

seats in the 2003 EVMV or somehow convert it to having forward

facing

seats with shoulder harness seat belt? My rear bench has 2

shoulder and

one lap and the middle seats face rearward and have lap belts. I

have 3

young kids and am slightly nuerotic about seatbelts. Any

thoughts out

there besides get over the seatbely nuerosis? I love my van and

this

would make it perfect. The only problem I have with it.